England vs Scotchland

Discussion of footy that ISN'T centred around Darlo!

Moderators: mikkyx, uncovered

WeAreDFC
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 7:23 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: England vs Scotchland

Post by WeAreDFC » Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:17 pm

Ash_Quaker wrote:
I was just making a general point about the decline in talent. 10-15 years ago players of that standard would be nowhere near the team.
In the last 10-15 years Seth Johnson, Michael Ricketts and Francis Jeffers have all played for England.
Well, yeah but they were hardly regulars were they?

WeAreDFC
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 7:23 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: England vs Scotchland

Post by WeAreDFC » Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:19 pm

Spyman wrote:Honestly, the constant bashing of the likes of Walcott, Wellbeck, Cleverley etc is really starting to piss me off.

These are young players who all get a regular game in some of the best club sides in European football. Now we might not be as strong as we were a decade ago, and we might not be as strong as Spain, Italy and whoever else, but these are good players who have done the business at club level.

One of my friends who likes to bum the arse off European teams at the expense of all things British, came out with some ridiculous comment about how poor Cleverley was compared to what the likes of Brazil and Spain have in a similar attacking midfield role. That would be the likes of Oscar and Silva who didn't win the Premiership last season.

Now that's a very simplistic way of looking at it, but his response was that Man Utd won the league because of Van Persie's goals and Fergie's management. If picking the best players to play in your team isn't a key part of good management, then I don't know what else it is that Fergie was magically doing to get results.

Somebody above talked about England 15 years ago. That would be about the time Kevin Keegan was in charge and we had Gareth Southgate playing a holding midfield role. As lo has said, there's been plenty of dodgy players play for England over the years.

This team reminds me a little of the late 80s early 90s sides with some pretty average central defenders keeping the seat warm until the next generation are ready. Cahill and Jagielka won't be around long, and are unfortunate to have to follow Terry and Ferdinand who have been two of Europe's best central defenders over the last decade.

Some of Wellbeck's footwork is a different class to what we normally see from English footballers, and if it was a Spaniard or a Brazilian doing similar things, your average joe slag off all things English football fan would be creaming themselves. He needs to add goals to his game, but he's got just about everything else you want in a striker.
Good post.

As I said earlier, I agree that Welbeck could develop into a special player as could Wilshere if he stays fit.

Not having Cleverley or Walcott though, maybe they'll prove me wrong, who knows.

I'm not slagging off young players because they're English. I honestly don't see many of them becoming top class. Not a criticism, that's just where we're at right now.

I think anything beyond the group stages of the World Cup would be a success (if we qualify of course).

User avatar
Spyman
Posts: 12644
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:04 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: England vs Scotchland

Post by Spyman » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:46 pm

As I said, Cleverley played over half Utds league games last season. Ferguson knows a good player, and has talked of Cleverley in the same mould as Scholes.

Watford and Wigan fans raved about him, that pass to play Walcott in last night was world class. He's perhaps been done no favours being compared to Schools, but I can see him developing in to an excellent player.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

User avatar
MaddosMilkman
Posts: 465
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:07 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: England vs Scotchland

Post by MaddosMilkman » Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:57 am

WeAreDFC wrote:Even our 'good' players don't seem very good anymore.

Another Hart clanger, Gerrard playing 50 yard balls to the opposition defence, Rooney totally unfit and disinterested.
To be fair, Hart didn't see it until very late, and it came through a fair few players on the way. Don't get me wrong, Hart will have been disappointed not have kept it out, but I don't think it was a clanger either.

WeAreDFC
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 7:23 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: England vs Scotchland

Post by WeAreDFC » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:50 am

Possibly. Thing is, he's been dodgy for a while now. Maybe the hype has gone to his head (and shoulders).

lo36789
Posts: 10928
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:58 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: England vs Scotchland

Post by lo36789 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:34 am

Can't agree more with Spyman on this. Welbeck does frustrate me due to his shot shyness more than anything but the rest of his game is exciting and not something I have really seen from an England player. Pace, power and skill!

The centre of the defence isn't great at the mo. We do have Martin Kelly coming through at Liverpool, in the last year he has become an absolute mountain and he always impressed before! The other one more in a Ferdinand mould is Rodwell, if he beefs out a bit I can see him dropping back a little bit.

User avatar
DarloOnTheUp
Posts: 6337
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:35 am
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: England vs Scotchland

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:23 am

lo36789 wrote:Can't agree more with Spyman on this. Welbeck does frustrate me due to his shot shyness more than anything but the rest of his game is exciting and not something I have really seen from an England player. Pace, power and skill!

The centre of the defence isn't great at the mo. We do have Martin Kelly coming through at Liverpool, in the last year he has become an absolute mountain and he always impressed before! The other one more in a Ferdinand mould is Rodwell, if he beefs out a bit I can see him dropping back a little bit.
Jones and Smalling both have a lot of potential. The problem is them being given game time, and their versatility leading to them never settling in one position.

lo36789
Posts: 10928
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:58 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: England vs Scotchland

Post by lo36789 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:30 pm

Agree about Jones although I actually really like him in CM!

Just watching the Hull game I can already envisage Tom Huddlestone having a semi-decent season in a poor Hull side and ending up at the WC.

Michael Carrick is the one for me should be an absolute stalwart in the centre of that midfield whether he is alongside Gerrard or Lampard doesn't bother me. It's direct, it's not pretty, but it's what we are best at!

al_quaker
Posts: 5942
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:51 pm
Team Supported: Darlington

Re: England vs Scotchland

Post by al_quaker » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:40 pm

Spyman wrote:Honestly, the constant bashing of the likes of Walcott, Wellbeck, Cleverley etc is really starting to piss me off.

These are young players who all get a regular game in some of the best club sides in European football. Now we might not be as strong as we were a decade ago, and we might not be as strong as Spain, Italy and whoever else, but these are good players who have done the business at club level.

One of my friends who likes to bum the arse off European teams at the expense of all things British, came out with some ridiculous comment about how poor Cleverley was compared to what the likes of Brazil and Spain have in a similar attacking midfield role. That would be the likes of Oscar and Silva who didn't win the Premiership last season.

Now that's a very simplistic way of looking at it, but his response was that Man Utd won the league because of Van Persie's goals and Fergie's management. If picking the best players to play in your team isn't a key part of good management, then I don't know what else it is that Fergie was magically doing to get results.

Somebody above talked about England 15 years ago. That would be about the time Kevin Keegan was in charge and we had Gareth Southgate playing a holding midfield role. As lo has said, there's been plenty of dodgy players play for England over the years.

This team reminds me a little of the late 80s early 90s sides with some pretty average central defenders keeping the seat warm until the next generation are ready. Cahill and Jagielka won't be around long, and are unfortunate to have to follow Terry and Ferdinand who have been two of Europe's best central defenders over the last decade.

Some of Wellbeck's footwork is a different class to what we normally see from English footballers, and if it was a Spaniard or a Brazilian doing similar things, your average joe slag off all things English football fan would be creaming themselves. He needs to add goals to his game, but he's got just about everything else you want in a striker.
Spot on.

The most pleasing thing about MotD last night? Welbeck's goals. If he can start scoring regularly he will be a top class player.

We've got some decent young players coming through. Not all of them are going to be stars, but I think in 3 or 4 more years we could actually be pretty strong again. I still don't think we will have enough depth of talent to have serious ambitions about winning tournaments (and we won't for a long while), but I think some of the signs are promising.

I was actually reasonably impressed with the fluidity of our attacking play against Scotland.

Post Reply