Ukraine vs England

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WeAreDFC
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Ukraine vs England

Post by WeAreDFC » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:35 pm

Big game tonight. Any predictions?

A draw would be a decent result although I have a nasty feeling that is exactly what we will play for and it will backfire on us.

lo36789
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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by lo36789 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:50 pm

Yarmolenko will score early doors, we'll scramble one in at some point and then cling on in the face of a lot of pressure.

I am sure I read earlier in the week that Hodgson was going to play James Milner upfront and leave Jermain Defoe on the bench.

I can't think of any other reason why he would do this other than to annoy and frustrate people.

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by Spyman » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:00 pm

lo36789 wrote:Yarmolenko will score early doors, we'll scramble one in at some point and then cling on in the face of a lot of pressure.

I am sure I read earlier in the week that Hodgson was going to play James Milner upfront and leave Jermain Defoe on the bench.

I can't think of any other reason why he would do this other than to annoy and frustrate people.
Because assuming we're sticking to the usual system, which I'd expect us to, Milner is a like-for-like replacement for Wellbeck, whereas Defoe is an out and out centre forward who plays off the last defender. He's not a winger.

I reckon we'll win tonight, and am going to put money on it as we've now slipped out to outsiders for a win. Man for man I think we're stronger, and have more in reserve as well - even if the majority are inexperienced. Someone like Barkley or Zaha has enough about them to create something if needed, and Defoe is always a danger from the bench.
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by lo36789 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:16 pm

is Zaha in the squad?

He played for the u21s against Finland last night that's all?

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Spyman
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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by Spyman » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:25 pm

lo36789 wrote:is Zaha in the squad?

He played for the u21s against Finland last night that's all?
I guess he isn't then.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

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MaddosMilkman
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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by MaddosMilkman » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:45 pm

I too think we're good enough to grab a win tonight. We're usually pretty good when we're up against it. It won't be easy, but I'm pretty confident.

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by WeAreDFC » Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:44 pm

Well that was absolutely dire. Still, job done I suppose. We shouldn't fuck up qualification now.

p.s. Kyle Walker is shite.

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by Darlo_George_96 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:03 pm

Really not sure why I bother watching England anymore. Very lucky not to give away a penalty in the second half watching it live the first time I thought it was inside the box. The passing was woeful again and it looked like the tactics was just to punt it up top and hope Lambert could get a knockdown to one of the wingers.
@George_S96

WeAreDFC
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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by WeAreDFC » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:25 pm

"It was a very good quality game".

Genuine quote from Roy Hodgson's press conference.

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by al_quaker » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:10 pm

What do you expect him to say?!

Anyway, defensively we were ok. Nothing going forwards, but most teams would struggle with about 1 million absent strikers.

0-0 is ok. Win our 2 home games and we win the group. Easier said than done mind - I doubt either game will be simple.

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by AndyPark » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:11 pm

Happy enough with a draw, leaves our fate in our hands. Bring on the next 2 games :)

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by Spyman » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:58 pm

al_quaker wrote:What do you expect him to say?!

Anyway, defensively we were ok. Nothing going forwards, but most teams would struggle with about 1 million absent strikers.

0-0 is ok. Win our 2 home games and we win the group. Easier said than done mind - I doubt either game will be simple.
Two absent strikers, really. Rooney and Wellbeck were the only forwards who have been regular fixtures that were missing. A lot has been made of Sturridge being injured, but he has fuck all international experience.

My thoughts as follows - defensively we were sound. Cahill played very well I thought although admittedly their centre forward had a rapists touch. Walker and Cole kept their danger men quiet on the most part, and Walker is a threat going forward in support.

Wilshere was quiet - a lot rests on him. Lampards passing was poor tonight, he slowed things down too often.

Walcott was dog s***. Complete inability to beat a man, he was up against a 34 year old full back but I didn't see hi, try to get behind him once after the first few minutes. Lambert did what he could but was isolated and once the game,e became stretched he was never going to be able to make much impact - Defoe could've exploited the breaks better in the last 20 minutes.

Young has gone massively off the boil over the last 15 months. Going in to Euro 2012 I thought he was destined to be a big player for England, but he has gone so far backwards since then.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by lo36789 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:05 am

I agree that Walker adds something from an attacking perspective but when you are playing a defensive game, which Hodgson was, then having a full back who is pretty poor at positioning is and was a liability. That said both Jones and Smalling are injured so not really sure who else could have played instead.

I know Hodgson has a way he wanted to play but given how defensive he went I am suprised that Michael Carrick can't get into the side. He obviously has his preferences though.

Something that hit me last night that I hadn't appreciated before was how one footed Wilshere is for a centre midfielder, he will continue to lose the ball as he did last night unless he starts using his right foot as well as his left to shield it a bit!

Agree with Spyman with pretty much everything. Especially around Young and Walcott. It would be good if we had a plan B if our wingers aren't on their game.

We were missing strikers but even if we had strikers the ball wouldn't have got to them because we were missing the ability to keep the ball in midfield.

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by WeAreDFC » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:31 am

al_quaker wrote:What do you expect him to say?!
Something that sounded like he'd been watching the same game as everybody else. It was one of the worst games I've ever seen at international level. To describe it as "good quality", he's either insulting people's intelligence or is genuinely insane.

I quite like Roy and I don't think he's doing a bad job but he does come out with some crap at times.

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by Spyman » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:05 am

Walker and Johnson are very similar in that they both get forward well, but also both get caught out positionally. They get away with this because they have the pace to recover more often than not.

While Johnson is now in his late 20s (I think), and unlikely to develop much more as a player, Walker is still young and could easily go the way of Ashley Cole, who was also defensively frail in his early years before developing in to one of the most complete full-backs in International football. I'm not suggesting Walker will achieve what Cole has, but he has time on his side and I'd stick with him over Johnson.

I also expected Carrick to play last night, but as the midfield trio did reasonably well against Moldova, I guess Hodgson probably thought a) why change things round, and b) if he'd taken out Lampard for Carrick, he'd probably be accused of negativity (although Carrick would've at least helped us keep the ball).

The main thing is that we didn't lose last night - that would've been a disaster. We never really looked like losing, partly down to the poor touch of their strikers, but we were solid.

What last night did show, was how important a player Wellbeck can be for England. He just seems to 'get' International football, takes a man on, has good technique, makes the right sort of runs. He's not got the electric pace of Walcott but he seems to do so much more with the ball. I also liked the way we tried to play in the first half with Lambert. Whereas Rooney drops deep to try and find the ball when playnig as a lone striker, Lambert held his position well and waited for balls in to feet, creating more space for the likes of Wilshere to work in.
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:21 am

It was a typical performance under Hodgson.

Tough to beat, solid defensively, but lacking creativity and flair going forward.
If ever you're bored or miserable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlZohZoadGY

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by comeondarlo » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:53 am

Before the game I'd have taken a dull nil - nil draw, that's what happened I really can't see the problem!

We had important players missing, we did what was required.

There a lot of West Ham fans down here who are not happy with Big Sam at the moment! Sometimes you have to accept that a manager (Sam/Roy) has to make the best with what he's got. I hope West Ham get their way and then watch West Ham being relegated. I also hope Roy stays in post and continues the good work.

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by lo36789 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:06 pm

comeondarlo wrote:Before the game I'd have taken a dull nil - nil draw, that's what happened I really can't see the problem!

We had important players missing, we did what was required.
I'd have taken a draw, but only on the premise that we'd have at least tried to win. In fact if we'd tried to make the game remotely entertaining it would have been better!

We had 2 players missing and were playing against a side of Ukrainian players that outside of maybe Yarmolenko wouldn't get into the England starting XI.

Results aren't the be all and end all there has to be some expectation that a midfield trio of Jack Wilshere, Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard would be able to string 3 or 4 10 yard passes together during 90 minutes.

If you are playing against a lesser team then the best method to play for a draw is "if we have the ball you can't score" not "we trust that our not world class defence should be able to stop you as long as we don't push them forward very far".

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by Spyman » Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:55 pm

comeondarlo wrote:Before the game I'd have taken a dull nil - nil draw, that's what happened I really can't see the problem!

We had important players missing, we did what was required.

There a lot of West Ham fans down here who are not happy with Big Sam at the moment! Sometimes you have to accept that a manager (Sam/Roy) has to make the best with what he's got. I hope West Ham get their way and then watch West Ham being relegated. I also hope Roy stays in post and continues the good work.
You'd think the West Ham fans might look at Newcastle and Blackburn in the seasons after Allardyce left and realise something.

Bolton to a certain extent, although they hung on longer after he went.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by Darlo_H » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:48 pm

Ukraine's last game is a three point banker against San Marino, Montenegro's is against Moldova. We have to beat Montenegro (a side who, given our current crop and past meetings, could very feasibly snatch at least a point) in order to stand any chance of automatic qualification.

This isn't as good a result as everyone is bleating on about.
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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by lo36789 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:51 am

Montenegro are behind us as things stand. So long as we equal them in the next two matches then we will finish above them. We don't have to win to stand any chance of qualifying.

We need to draw with Montenegro and beat Poland.

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:43 pm

lo36789 wrote:Montenegro are behind us as things stand. So long as we equal them in the next two matches then we will finish above them. We don't have to win to stand any chance of qualifying.

We need to draw with Montenegro and beat Poland.
You're forgetting about Ukraine lo: they've got the same number of points as Montenegro.

Second place goes into the playoffs.

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by lo36789 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:51 pm

DarloOnTheUp wrote:
lo36789 wrote:Montenegro are behind us as things stand. So long as we equal them in the next two matches then we will finish above them. We don't have to win to stand any chance of qualifying.

We need to draw with Montenegro and beat Poland.
You're forgetting about Ukraine lo: they've got the same number of points as Montenegro.
To stand a chance of qualifying? If we do the above we will end up in the 2nd place playoffs, I'd count that as still having a chance to qualify.

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:53 pm

lo36789 wrote:
DarloOnTheUp wrote:
lo36789 wrote:Montenegro are behind us as things stand. So long as we equal them in the next two matches then we will finish above them. We don't have to win to stand any chance of qualifying.

We need to draw with Montenegro and beat Poland.
You're forgetting about Ukraine lo: they've got the same number of points as Montenegro.
To stand a chance of qualifying? If we do the above we will end up in the 2nd place playoffs, I'd count that as still having a chance to qualify.
Ah OK, I see your point. I'd still prefer to us to finish top though as the playoffs can be a bit of a lottery.

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by Spyman » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:12 pm

DarloOnTheUp wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
DarloOnTheUp wrote:
lo36789 wrote:Montenegro are behind us as things stand. So long as we equal them in the next two matches then we will finish above them. We don't have to win to stand any chance of qualifying.

We need to draw with Montenegro and beat Poland.
You're forgetting about Ukraine lo: they've got the same number of points as Montenegro.
To stand a chance of qualifying? If we do the above we will end up in the 2nd place playoffs, I'd count that as still having a chance to qualify.
Ah OK, I see your point. I'd still prefer to us to finish top though as the playoffs can be a bit of a lottery.
Yep. One of France/Spain will be on the playoffs. I seem to recall that for some bizarre reason the playoffs are seeded though?

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by lo36789 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:17 pm

Spyman wrote:I seem to recall that for some bizarre reason the playoffs are seeded though?
Wouldn't suprise me the goal is to get as many of the big nations to the Finals as possible. Here are the top 13 nations in Europe according the ranking at the moment.

1. Spain, 2. Germany, 5. Netherlands, 6. Italy, 7. Portugal, 8. Croatia, 10. Belgium, 11. Greece, 13. Bosnia-Herzegovina, 14. England, 15. Switzerland, 16. Russia, 23. France...

You would imagine these would be the 13 they want to get through, don't know how that is working out in the qualifying groups.

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by Spyman » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:31 pm

Seeding is normally worked out based on past performance/qualifications rather than ranking - so it is inherently biased towards rewarding the same teams time and again. If we did end up in the playoffs, and they are seeded as I think they are, then we'd probably be one of the higher seeds based on our having reached the last 16 of the four previous World Cups.
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by joejaques » Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:45 pm

As previously atated, after what the F'ing A did to us I sincerely hope that England never win another competetive game while those incompetent old farts run the show. Don't mind however if they win every meaningless friendly
7-0 :roll:
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Re: Ukraine vs England

Post by lo36789 » Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:54 pm

joejaques wrote:As previously atated, after what the F'ing A did to us I sincerely hope that England never win another competetive game while those incompetent old farts run the show. Don't mind however if they win every meaningless friendly
7-0 :roll:
Which old farts? Not that it really makes a blind bit of difference but they've already changed Bernstein for Dyke.

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