Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by lo36789 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:35 pm

None but thought people were innocent until proven guilty? I am sure that if it didnt make sense then it would be pretty evident on their plans. The main decision around World Cup hosting is the infrastructure. If there is a completely new invention on the block they would have asked some professional "will this work?".

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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:20 pm

lo36789 wrote:I am sure that if it didnt make sense then it would be pretty evident on their plans.
Do you think FIFA cared about their plans or whether they were feasible? All they truly pay attention to is the size of the brown envelopes.

And you really are oversimplifying things lo, as others have already pointed out.
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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by al_quaker » Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:25 pm

I know it's the Daily Mail, but I think there are some good points in this article

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... d-Cup.html

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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by lo36789 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:27 pm

Because "it must have been bribes" isnt over simplifying? It's quite an accusation to make to be honest. I prefer to work in the realms of what is known.

Qatar is quite hot, but no hotter than holiday destinations. That makes me think that so long as fans take reasonable precautions they should be ok. Nothing really tells me any different the summer temperatures in the midwest of the USA creep above the 100s and that was deemed to be ok.

The bid they have made had working air conditioned stadiums as part of it. If they fail to deliver that they it should be moved they havn't met the criteria they agreed to. To date they have not failed with that and given they will have had engineers help with stadium designs then the technology should add up.

If it is still decided that a winter World Cup is more suitable then the Premier League and Championship will need January & February off. The rest of the domestic game should also take a 4 week break during the tournament.

Start the 2021/22 season a week early (as per normal), end the domestic season on June 30th, that gives you back 6 weeks from the date when a normal World Cup year would finish. The lower leagues should be able to stop at a pretty normal time since the 4weeks they have off are usually quite postponement prone anyway, this is based on the past few seasons.

That does leave you 2 weeks/games short which would quite simply have to be dealt with should that be the decision. It's 2 games there is scope during a season, particularly at the start when teams play 1 game per week.

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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:37 pm

lo36789 wrote:Because "it must have been bribes" isnt over simplifying? It's quite an accusation to make to be honest. I prefer to work in the realms of what is known.
It is known FIFA have taken bribes.
lo36789 wrote:Qatar is quite hot, but no hotter than holiday destinations. That makes me think that so long as fans take reasonable precautions they should be ok. Nothing really tells me any different the summer temperatures in the midwest of the USA creep above the 100s and that was deemed to be ok.

The bid they have made had working air conditioned stadiums as part of it. If they fail to deliver that they it should be moved they havn't met the criteria they agreed to. To date they have not failed with that and given they will have had engineers help with stadium designs then the technology should add up.

If it is still decided that a winter World Cup is more suitable then the Premier League and Championship will need January & February off. The rest of the domestic game should also take a 4 week break during the tournament.

Start the 2021/22 season a week early (as per normal), end the domestic season on June 30th, that gives you back 6 weeks from the date when a normal World Cup year would finish. The lower leagues should be able to stop at a pretty normal time since the 4weeks they have off are usually quite postponement prone anyway, this is based on the past few seasons.

That does leave you 2 weeks/games short which would quite simply have to be dealt with should that be the decision. It's 2 games there is scope during a season, particularly at the start when teams play 1 game per week.
Hang on, first you say that if Qatar cannot fulfill the promises of their agreement then it should be awarded elsewhere, yet you're open, and somewhat obsessed by the looks of it (fuck knows why), for them to dishonour a major part of said agreement? This is what we've been saying all along! If it's been awarded on certain terms, such as it being a summer world cup, then those terms should be met. It isn't exactly fair on the other nations who applied for a summer world cup, not a winter one.

And again: you're oversimplifying things. A major tournament in the middle of a season is a massive difference to one in between seasons. Do you really think any of the top leagues and clubs would want this?

And what about the season after, and the season after that?

Or contracts, sponsorship, TV deals, and other competitions/sporting events it may conflict with?

The "winter break" in between would have to be massive as well (longer than you're suggesting as it isn't just a case of "fitting it in"): the players need a rest before, and a rest after.

All of this chaos and disruption (which would last for more than one season) just to allow a tiny country, which has a law against homosexuality and who probably bribed their way to the awarding, the chance to host one world cup which lasts for a few weeks. You were banging on about equality before, yet Qatar's ban on homosexuality is a far bigger injustice; by a fucking mile. The irony was obviously lost on you.

Oh, and don't forget that it means doing all of this because FIFA fucked up. Yeah OK, we'll clean up your mess for you.

Fuck that.

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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by lo36789 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:02 pm

DarloOnTheUp wrote:Hang on, first you say that if Qatar cannot fulfill the promises of their agreement then it should be awarded elsewhere, yet you're open, and somewhat obsessed by the looks of it (fuck knows why), for them to dishonour a major part of said agreement? This is what we've been saying all along! If it's been awarded on certain terms, such as it being a summer world cup, then those terms should be met. It isn't exactly fair on the other nations who applied for a summer world cup, not a winter one.
Dishonor what part.

There is a HUGE difference. Qatar had a provision to provide working air conditioned stadium they did not make a provision/promise for temperature

Seriously brush up on your concept of contracts. If FIFA change the dates that is FIFA changing the terms of the contract NOT Qatar!

Qatari applied for a Summer world cup as well remember. I wouldn't be suprised if Qatar were entitled to compensation if FIFA were to change it to the Winter if they are that way inclined!

Members of FIFA that were found guilty of corruption were not on the panel when the decision over the Qatar World Cup was made, not as far as I was aware anyway.

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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:11 pm

lo36789 wrote:Dishonor what part.

There is a HUGE difference. Qatar had a provision to provide working air conditioned stadium they did not make a provision/promise for temperature

Seriously brush up on your concept of contracts. If FIFA change the dates that is FIFA changing the terms of the contract NOT Qatar!
The agreement was for a summer world cup: if that isn't possible then the original terms of the agreement are being broken. You talk about legal action, well what about those, such as Australia, who were being told they were bidding for a summer world cup? I'm sure they'll be interested in the legalities of this whole shambles.

And you still haven't answered my other, quite critical, point: you originally stated that you're interested in fairness and equality for all nations wishing to host the world cup and that seems to be your main interest in this. Well what about fairness and equality for all those wishing to live their life as human beings? Qatar's ban on homosexuality tends to discredit any point you make about equality or fairness, since that is far worse than the inability to host a sports tournament.

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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by lo36789 » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:13 pm

Frankly as I see it the bid was to host the 2022 World Cup. I think it was in the news recently that it's a little ambiguous and potentially allows for a switch to the winter. Ultimately the 2012 World Cup was actually played in the 'winter' if you really wanted to be pedantic, which lawyers will/can be!

Well actually my main point has been about people getting their knickers in a twist over weather and moving the Premier League Schedule. This I still stand by.

You actually do make the critical point though and I agree with you. It shouldn't have been given to them for exactly that reason, in fact it should have been publicly know that was the reason in an attempt to apply pressure.

That was an argument for another day though when the decision was initially made! This was specifically about what happens next!

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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:25 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24122625

Australia aren't happy, and who can blame them?

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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by PaulMJohnson » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:21 pm

The problem here is that FIFA have been too stupid to indicate that the World Cup can be moved.

The Olympics are widely regarded as a summer event (for the Northern hemisphere), but the Seoul Olympics were held in late September/early October, because the weather in Seoul in July is so humid, you'd not have athletes performing at their best. The difference though, was that the IOC never mandated the time of year the "summer" games should happen, and Seoul made their bid on the understanding the games would be in September.

What's happened with Qatar is they have addressed the conditions for the athletes to be able to perform at their best. The air conditioned stadiums will work fine (I went to see the Arizona Diamondbacks play baseball in their air conditioned stadium three weeks ago and it was 110F outside, and perfectly nice inside the air conditioned stadium), so having confirmed the athletes will be fine, and hence it will look OK on TV, FIFA think all is well.

That they literally never give any consideration to supporters is one of the biggest failings of FIFA.

Ultimately, I think the Qatar World Cup probably should have been staged later in the year, so the fans will be protected when outside of the stadia. However, that should have been understood during the bidding process, much like the Seoul Olympics was.

Having had the bid accepted for a World Cup in July, it needs to be honored. Otherwise, it is grossly unfair on the other countries that missed out on the bids.

The overriding point here though is that once again FIFA have been shown to be unsuited to be the guardians of the game.

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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by lo36789 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:27 pm

Think I read a quote from Blatter that there is 'small print' which gives an allowance to move the World Cup - not sure where this exists mind! Did feel a bit like clutching at straws!

It'll be interesting to see how it turns out. As DOTU has said is a very good reasons why Qatar shouldn't have been awarded it, unless FIFA cite that as a reason for taking it from them then Qatar have as much grounds for complaint as anyone unless it is played in the Summer.

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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by joejaques » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:54 pm

PaulMJohnson wrote:That they literally never give any consideration to supporters is one of the biggest failings of FIFA.

So what's new there then? :roll:
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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by jqm18287 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:59 pm


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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by Quakerz » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:46 pm

lo36789 wrote: I just had a look to see what temperature we are looking at and a low of 29 in June and July with average of 41c or 106 Farenheit. What were the temperatures like during the USA World Cup? When I was in the midwest of America a few years ago over the same time period it was 100+ pretty much every day.
That is comparable with Yuma, Las Vegas etc. Basically the frying pan of the USA. An average of 41c would mean some days of 46/47/48c.
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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by Quakerz » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:51 pm

lo36789 wrote: Given Qatari people manage to live in their country throughout the summer it is clearly possible to do so.
We're not talking about living in it, we're talking about top level football, played intensely for 90+ minutes.
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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by Quakerz » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:57 pm

lo36789 wrote:Because all I said was stick a week at the start as per normal the end the season at the end of June you said that comment around starting the season earlier were laughable!?

The World Cup would be playing until 2nd week of July. Why can't Domestic season change to end at the end of June?

The lower leagues would only lose the 4 weeks of the tournament as they should be able to play up to the start and resume immediately after. Previous seasons they have had to be finished by early May so they will probably be able to finish at relatively normal time since the World Cup will take place when 50% of their games are being called off for the weather anyway.

It's completely irrelevant that the temperatures in Qatar have been wildly over reported. Ranging from 29-48 not "in the 50s". These are identical temperatures to countries where millions of people spend their summer holidays and don't get in a fret about it.
29 is the absolute average night time minimum, playing in the day time it's always going to be well in the 40's in the shade, and in the sun it will be unbelievably extreme - more extreme than your favourite example of the midwest USA which is 10-15 degrees of latitude further north (and therefore weaker sunshine)
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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by lo36789 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:17 am

Quakerz wrote:
lo36789 wrote: Given Qatari people manage to live in their country throughout the summer it is clearly possible to do so.
We're not talking about living in it, we're talking about top level football, played intensely for 90+ minutes.
We are just talking about living in it - well more spectating in it - they are the risks identified. As has been said before air conditioned stadiums are built elsewhere and work effectively. That is what is promised.

I note in the USA in California they used an indoor stadium but in Dallas it didn't even have roof. I imagine California is made more bearable by being on the coast, Dallas on the other hand must have been rather warm in the summer?

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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by fozzovmurton » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:36 am

Could it not be done through re-scheduling the seasons before and after, cutting down on Pre Season Friendlies and starting a few weeks early and finishing earlier, thinking about this country only

20-21 Season Start 2nd-3rd week in July, finish last week April
21-22 As above, 6 week break from Christmas to Early Feb, resume 1st week in Feb, finish June
22-23 Start Late August-Finish Late May

In the World Cup year what is there to stop Cup Games being played during a prolonged Winter Break, the top teams dont really give a s*** about the Cup anyway.

Personally, I prefer the Summer Schedule, I like having a beer in a pub beer garden or at home getting pissed and get the bbq out.
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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:17 pm

lo36789 wrote:
DarloOnTheUp wrote:Hang on, first you say that if Qatar cannot fulfill the promises of their agreement then it should be awarded elsewhere, yet you're open, and somewhat obsessed by the looks of it (fuck knows why), for them to dishonour a major part of said agreement? This is what we've been saying all along! If it's been awarded on certain terms, such as it being a summer world cup, then those terms should be met. It isn't exactly fair on the other nations who applied for a summer world cup, not a winter one.

Members of FIFA that were found guilty of corruption were not on the panel when the decision over the Qatar World Cup was made, not as far as I was aware anyway.
Yes they were. Bin Hammam, Warner, Teixeira, Blazer, Worawadi, Leoz.

That's about a quarter of the exec committee who made the decision to give Qatar the World Cup. All have left amid corruption allegations.

A quarter, probably more.

You cannot have a credible argument when you so blatantly know nothing about the situation. Your lack of knowledge is embarrassing.
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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:26 pm

fozzovmurton wrote: In the World Cup year what is there to stop Cup Games being played during a prolonged Winter Break, the top teams dont really give a s*** about the Cup anyway.
Quite a ridiculous, sweeping statement to make, given the FA Cup and League Cup have, in the main, been won by the top teams (i.e. top six in the Premier League) over the past decade.

So I would say the top teams do give a stuff about the cups.
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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by fozzovmurton » Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:38 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
fozzovmurton wrote: In the World Cup year what is there to stop Cup Games being played during a prolonged Winter Break, the top teams dont really give a s*** about the Cup anyway.
Quite a ridiculous, sweeping statement to make, given the FA Cup and League Cup have, in the main, been won by the top teams (i.e. top six in the Premier League) over the past decade.

So I would say the top teams do give a stuff about the cups.
Fair enough Darlogramps, point taken mate, but a lot of the top teams put out weaker sides in the earlier rounds of the Cup, more so in the League Cup

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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:02 pm

fozzovmurton wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
fozzovmurton wrote: In the World Cup year what is there to stop Cup Games being played during a prolonged Winter Break, the top teams dont really give a s*** about the Cup anyway.
Quite a ridiculous, sweeping statement to make, given the FA Cup and League Cup have, in the main, been won by the top teams (i.e. top six in the Premier League) over the past decade.

So I would say the top teams do give a stuff about the cups.
Fair enough Darlogramps, point taken mate, but a lot of the top teams put out weaker sides in the earlier rounds of the Cup, more so in the League Cup
I don't disagree, but in my opinion, that doesn't mean they don't care about the cups. It just means it's not as much of a priority as say the league or Champions League.
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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:45 pm

This Qatar thing is hotting up again, and there was an interesting report on Newsnight tonight that said that the Bribery allegations might give FIFA the chance to dig itself out of a hole of its own making.

It said that moving the competition to winter would be incredibly unpopular to a lot of big European clubs and virtually impossible, but playing it in the summer could well be a farce. However, rerunning the vote because of allegations of dodgy dealing could allow FIFA to get rid of Quarter and sort the problem out.
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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by fozzovmurton » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:21 am

There is also talk of re-running the 2018 vote as well, if one paper yesterday is to be believed (Daily Star, I think) then England is about to be offered the chance to host 2018, I will believe that when I see it, I would not trust the football results that the Star Prints.

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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by lo36789 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:58 am

IF votes are re run I think we will get one of them. I can't think of many others that havn't done it for a while that have the stadiums in place.

Worst case scenario if we don't have enough stadiums up to capacity requirements (is it 50k now?) we bring Scotland and Wales in on it as well to give access to Millenium Stadium, Hampden, Celtic Park & Ibrox and potentially Murrayfield.

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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by Spyman » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:04 am

lo36789 wrote:IF votes are re run I think we will get one of them. I can't think of many others that havn't done it for a while that have the stadiums in place.

Worst case scenario if we don't have enough stadiums up to capacity requirements (is it 50k now?) we bring Scotland and Wales in on it as well to give access to Millenium Stadium, Hampden, Celtic Park & Ibrox and potentially Murrayfield.
Certainly if they're looking for countries that already have a good infrastructure in place and could therefore get things in place a little quicker, they'd probably have to look to Europe or a nation that has hosted something similar in the last decade or so.

With the success London made of the Olympics, surely we'd be strong candidates. 2018 is very soon though - I'd be surprised if they go back on that one now.

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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by BaronsCourtQuaker » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:07 am

I simply can't see anything coming of this at all. Its corrupt and the world knows its corrupt however those that are corrupt don't care.

Micahel Garica (the FIFA appointed ethics man) has already said he has a deadline for next week, so there is no time to look at any new evidence.

Incidentally the report has cost over GBP6 million to carry out.

Its a waste of time and money challenging.

From my point of view, Qatar should never have been invited to bid, the country is simply too small to deal with it. Would Northern Ireland have ever been granted the world cup. No way will the 2022 go ahead according to their bid, other GCC countries I suspect will have to help stage the games which actually makes more sense due to the size of the areas involved.

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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by BaronsCourtQuaker » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:08 am

Spyman wrote:
lo36789 wrote:IF votes are re run I think we will get one of them. I can't think of many others that havn't done it for a while that have the stadiums in place.

Worst case scenario if we don't have enough stadiums up to capacity requirements (is it 50k now?) we bring Scotland and Wales in on it as well to give access to Millenium Stadium, Hampden, Celtic Park & Ibrox and potentially Murrayfield.
Certainly if they're looking for countries that already have a good infrastructure in place and could therefore get things in place a little quicker, they'd probably have to look to Europe or a nation that has hosted something similar in the last decade or so.

With the success London made of the Olympics, surely we'd be strong candidates. 2018 is very soon though - I'd be surprised if they go back on that one now.

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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by fozzovmurton » Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:21 am

lo36789 wrote:IF votes are re run I think we will get one of them. I can't think of many others that havn't done it for a while that have the stadiums in place.

Worst case scenario if we don't have enough stadiums up to capacity requirements (is it 50k now?) we bring Scotland and Wales in on it as well to give access to Millenium Stadium, Hampden, Celtic Park & Ibrox and potentially Murrayfield.
IF we were to get it, there would only be very minimal building work to be done, the top 10 stadiums by capacity in England goes from 90k (Wembley) to just under 40 (Hillsborough), all it would require would be expansions to stadiums and maybe a new stadium or two in the provinces...

But I will believe when I see it happen

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Re: Blatter. Thick, incompetent, corrupt ?

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:12 pm

DarloOnTheUp wrote:The sheet with the temperature details on was buried under a mass of brown envelopes.
DarloOnTheUp wrote:Do you think FIFA cared about their plans or whether they were feasible? All they truly pay attention to is the size of the brown envelopes.
DarloOnTheUp wrote:And FIFA couldn't give a flying fuck about the fans: all they care about is money. So fuck them. Why should we rearrange our entire league structure just so they can get a bigger wad of cash?
:think:

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