England Squad - World Cup 2014

[DarloOnTheUp]

as for Ings instead of Wickham as suggested in a previous post... I don't see why not, he has certainly had a good season and I would have no complaints if he was in the squad.

Sorry but all credibility went with that. James Walshaw scored another 30 odd goals this season and Danny Johnson got more than 40 at Guisborough, they're both in form should they be on the plane? Maybe if Mike Bassett was England manager.

To be fair lo, you're being ridiculous here.

There's a big difference between Ings, who's had a good season for a side who've just been promoted to the Premier League, and Walshaw/Johnson, who are non-league players.

It's a poor exaggeration that you've made.

That said, I wouldn't take Ings just on the basis of one season.

The point he was trying to make though is that it matters which level you're producing the goods at: Walshy has stated that he would prefer Ings, who scored 21 goals in the Championship, over Welbeck, who scored 9 in the Premiership, which is absolutely ludicrous.

It becomes even more ludicrous when you compare the scoring ratios of the two last season. As aforementioned, Welbeck's was about 1 goal every 2.5 games, whereas Ings played 40 games, so about 1 goal every 2 games. Their ratios are virtually the same except ONE IS PLAYING IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP.

If Ings replicates his goalscoring in the Premiership next season then fair enough but, until then, how about we call up the ones who have already done just that?

Picking Championship players is not the answer.

[lo36789]

If Ings played well in the Championship for ten seasons I still wouldn't take him. Depends how you look at it to determine if it was an over exaggeration.

I say there is a line for me between having proved yourself enough against suitable opposition.

Welbeck is above the line

Ings, Wickham, Johnson and Walshaw are all below it.

So many players try that step up and can't cope. The World Cup isn't really a testing ground for that. It is a gamble to pick inexperienced internationals in the competition. For them to not even be experienced top division players is a step too far.

[Darlo will]

as for Ings instead of Wickham as suggested in a previous post... I don't see why not, he has certainly had a good season and I would have no complaints if he was in the squad.

Sorry but all credibility went with that. James Walshaw scored another 30 odd goals this season and Danny Johnson got more than 40 at Guisborough, they're both in form should they be on the plane? Maybe if Mike Bassett was England manager.

To be fair lo, you're being ridiculous here.

There's a big difference between Ings, who's had a good season for a side who've just been promoted to the Premier League, and Walshaw/Johnson, who are non-league players.

It's a poor exaggeration that you've made.

That said, I wouldn't take Ings just on the basis of one season.

But wickham would go after one month?

[Spyman]

There are players who have scored goals over the course of a whole season in the Premiership who have been way out of their depth at International level - James Beattie, Kevin Phillips to name a couple over recent years.

At the start of the season I remember someone on here, can't recall who, suggesting Gary Hooper should be ahead of some well established International striker (possibly Wayne Rooney). Absolutely laughable.

[TSQuaker]

Rooney gets far more stick than he deserves when he wears an England shirt. People really don't appreciate just how good a player he really is.

[Darlogramps]

as for Ings instead of Wickham as suggested in a previous post... I don't see why not, he has certainly had a good season and I would have no complaints if he was in the squad.

Sorry but all credibility went with that. James Walshaw scored another 30 odd goals this season and Danny Johnson got more than 40 at Guisborough, they're both in form should they be on the plane? Maybe if Mike Bassett was England manager.

To be fair lo, you're being ridiculous here.

There's a big difference between Ings, who's had a good season for a side who've just been promoted to the Premier League, and Walshaw/Johnson, who are non-league players.

It's a poor exaggeration that you've made.

That said, I wouldn't take Ings just on the basis of one season.

But wickham would go after one month?

Where do I say that?

[Darlo will]

My bad wrong person

[Darlogramps]

as for Ings instead of Wickham as suggested in a previous post... I don't see why not, he has certainly had a good season and I would have no complaints if he was in the squad.

Sorry but all credibility went with that. James Walshaw scored another 30 odd goals this season and Danny Johnson got more than 40 at Guisborough, they're both in form should they be on the plane? Maybe if Mike Bassett was England manager.

To be fair lo, you're being ridiculous here.

There's a big difference between Ings, who's had a good season for a side who've just been promoted to the Premier League, and Walshaw/Johnson, who are non-league players.

It's a poor exaggeration that you've made.

That said, I wouldn't take Ings just on the basis of one season.

The point he was trying to make though is that it matters which level you're producing the goods at: Walshy has stated that he would prefer Ings, who scored 21 goals in the Championship, over Welbeck, who scored 9 in the Premiership, which is absolutely ludicrous.

I agree, and I wasn't defending Walshy's point.

Exaggerating the point by including non-league players was a poor way for lo to make the point.

[lo36789]

Unfortunately he didn't seem to get it when I mentioned Danny Ings!

[walshys_wingman_11]

There are players who have scored goals over the course of a whole season in the Premiership who have been way out of their depth at International level - James Beattie, Kevin Phillips to name a couple over recent years.

At the start of the season I remember someone on here, can't recall who, suggesting Gary Hooper should be ahead of some well established International striker (possibly Wayne Rooney). Absolutely laughable.

How was Phillips out of his depth when he was not given the run of games his goals deserved ?

[lo36789]

How was Phillips out of his depth when he was not given the run of games his goals deserved ?

Ah right...this whole things has been a wind up has it? Surely?

[Spyman]

There are players who have scored goals over the course of a whole season in the Premiership who have been way out of their depth at International level - James Beattie, Kevin Phillips to name a couple over recent years.

At the start of the season I remember someone on here, can't recall who, suggesting Gary Hooper should be ahead of some well established International striker (possibly Wayne Rooney). Absolutely laughable.

How was Phillips out of his depth when he was not given the run of games his goals deserved ?

Ha!

Other than his first first season in the Premiership, he was hardly prolific. In fact, his goal tally as a central striker was about the same as Danny Wellbeck's from playing out wide after that first season. Difference is, Wellbeck made an almost instant impact for England. Kevin Phillips made virutally no impact in 8 games.

[BaronsCourtQuaker]

Another bad example in Phillips I think.

Back to the England squad and world cup, how do people feel about the game tonight? is there any point to it, or just the FA trying to get a pay day pre-world cup?

[lo36789]

Another bad example in Phillips I think.

Back to the England squad and world cup, how do people feel about the game tonight? is there any point to it, or just the FA trying to get a pay day pre-world cup?

It's a WC warm-up match? There is quite a lot of value in it.

[BaronsCourtQuaker]

Another bad example in Phillips I think.

Back to the England squad and world cup, how do people feel about the game tonight? is there any point to it, or just the FA trying to get a pay day pre-world cup?

It's a WC warm-up match? There is quite a lot of value in it.

I'm just not sure of the value playing in London. I'm more on board with the games in Miami, although i'm not sure that will quite be on par with the conditions of Manaus. Where the humidity will be the killer.

[Darlobaz79]

Another bad example in Phillips I think.

Back to the England squad and world cup, how do people feel about the game tonight? is there any point to it, or just the FA trying to get a pay day pre-world cup?

It's a WC warm-up match? There is quite a lot of value in it.

I'm just not sure of the value playing in London. I'm more on board with the games in Miami, although i'm not sure that will quite be on par with the conditions of Manaus. Where the humidity will be the killer.

It better not be tonight, I've got tickets and I'm lined up to go tomorrow!

[Spyman]

Another bad example in Phillips I think.

Back to the England squad and world cup, how do people feel about the game tonight? is there any point to it, or just the FA trying to get a pay day pre-world cup?

Why is Phillips a bad example of a player who had one excellent season in the Premiership but was found wanting at International level?

My point was that you get players who are good enough to stand out in the Premiership over a whoel season who still aren't good enough for International football, let alone players who only prove themselves in the Championship or have one good month in the Premiership.

There's nothing to say Ings or Wickham can't sustain their form against higher quality opposition and then make the step up to playing for England in the future, (Lambert has managed it to some extent), but Wellbeck has shown sustained form for England and Man Utd over the last 2-3 years while playing against some of the best teams in Europe for both sides. It would be madness to choose one of them for the squad this time.

[BaronsCourtQuaker]

Another bad example in Phillips I think.

Back to the England squad and world cup, how do people feel about the game tonight? is there any point to it, or just the FA trying to get a pay day pre-world cup?

Why is Phillips a bad example of a player who had one excellent season in the Premiership but was found wanting at International level?

My point was that you get players who are good enough to stand out in the Premiership over a whoel season who still aren't good enough for International football, let alone players who only prove themselves in the Championship or have one good month in the Premiership.

There's nothing to say Ings or Wickham can't sustain their form against higher quality opposition and then make the step up to playing for England in the future, (Lambert has managed it to some extent), but Wellbeck has shown sustained form for England and Man Utd over the last 2-3 years while playing against some of the best teams in Europe for both sides. It would be madness to choose one of them for the squad this time.

By saying Philips was a bad example I meant by Walshy suggesting he should have been given a better run by England.

I agree, Philips is a player who clearly despite having a good run of it, would not be up to playing for England. He had 3 outstanding seasons for Sunderland (2 in the first division, and 1 in the prem) but I don't think he was ever cut out for England.

*I was surprised to see he made the Euro 2000 squad. Not that we did much for ourselves there.

[lo36789]

He does look a bit out of place compared to others in the group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_ ... ds#England

[comeondarlo]

For me Welbeck is a test, those that know what they are talking about and those that don't!

Of course Welbeck should go and those that think not are footballing know nowts!

You couldn't pick Wickham on a month and a bits form. To use Sheffield Weds form is just plain silly talk.
Carroll and (dare I say) Defoe are ahead of him in the queue anyway.

[DarloOnTheUp]

England looking quality tonight, but then again it is only Peru.

[Spyman]

For me Welbeck is a test, those that know what they are talking about and those that don't!

Of course Welbeck should go and those that think not are footballing know nowts!

You couldn't pick Wickham on a month and a bits form. To use Sheffield Weds form is just plain silly talk.
Carroll and (dare I say) Defoe are ahead of him in the queue anyway.

Ha - and you don't rate Defoe!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[comeondarlo]

For me Welbeck is a test, those that know what they are talking about and those that don't!

Of course Welbeck should go and those that think not are footballing know nowts!

You couldn't pick Wickham on a month and a bits form. To use Sheffield Weds form is just plain silly talk.
Carroll and (dare I say) Defoe are ahead of him in the queue anyway.

Ha - and you don't rate Defoe!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk[/

Exactly my point, Wickham could be a better option, who knows!
The squad is full of gambles and doesn't need another one!
Especially when form is based on just over a month!

[lo36789]

Watching the Ecuador game. It is difficult to judge in these warm up games though there are a few players to comment on.

Jack Wilshere - really needs to up his game. I am not really sure what he is adding at the moment. He wouldn't be in my starting XI now.

Luke Shaw - he isn't a million miles off. Baines is still ahead of him, but I wouldn't be concerned if he had to be thrown in.

Ross Barkley - what a great option to throw on to change things up. He in confident enough to try something different and is so direct.

Oxlade-Chamberlain - Looks up for it at the moment. I'd be tempted to start him. Can't think of many defenders who would fancy their chances against him.

Right now I'd be going 4-2-3-1.

Hart, Johnson, Jagielka, Cahill, Baines, Gerrard, Henderson, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Lallana, Rooney, Sturridge.

[DarloOnTheUp]

Lambert looked decent as well and offers something different to our other strikers.

Wilshere has only just came back from injury so needs time to get his match fitness back but he's a quality player when he's at his best.

Also, I would pay good money for someone to batter Andy Townsend to death.

[fat tony]

Also, I would pay good money for someone to batter Andy Townsend to death.

"BETTER..."

[DarloOnTheUp]

Also, I would pay good money for someone to batter Andy Townsend to death.

"BETTER..."

"MUCH BETTER..."

[Spyman]

Tonight showed a few things.

Defensively we were poor - Milner looked OK for someone playing out of position, Shaw looks naive defensively, and the central defenders were far too exposed by the lack of a proper holding midfielder who could break up attacks.

Wilshere was a little off the pace but I still see him offering a lot if we get past the group.

Barkley can be a real threat, but he can also be a bit of a liability when we don't have the ball. He doesn't track back or have anywhere near the discipline Rooney has playing that role.

Oxlade Chamberlain was superb. A real stand out performance and it would be just our luck if he is crocked. He's not had too much focus during the whole selection process, with Barkley, Lallana and Sterling taking more of the midfield spotlight, but he could be our star player this summer.

Lambert faded, but generally looked good. His awareness of others around him is great and he nearly played in a couple of goals tonight.

Rooney was subdued but had a few nice touches and put in a disciplined performance. Similar to Wilshere, he's lacking a bit of sharpness.

Overall, much more encouraging going forward, but concerning defensively.

Worth noting Italy are not having a smooth warm up either, draws against Ireland and footballing powerhouse Luxembourg.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Spyman]

Oh, and forgot to add - we clearly missed Connor Wickham's all-round game up front.

[lo36789]

Oh, and forgot to add - we clearly missed Connor Wickham's all-round game up front.

It was a noticeable absence.

Also it's a shame Wes Morgan opted to play for Jamaica. He would have been a shoe-in. Especially ahead of Chris Smalling and Phil Jones because they only managed to finish 7th not 1st.