England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

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England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by Darlo_Pete » Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:30 am

The seedings are out for next years Euro's and we have a good chance of getting a good draw in the competition.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34844461
Last edited by Darlo_Pete on Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Eoro's

Post by lo36789 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:00 am

Italy, Sweden, Wales would be a nightmare. Austria, Hungary, Albania probably the best I would hope for.

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by Darlo_Pete » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:45 pm

I don't know how the seeding's are worked out, but I find it surprising that we are still in the top seeds, given our pathetic form in recent European and World Cup competitions.

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:18 pm

We're one of the top seeds because our form since the World Cup is very good - P16 W13 D2 L1, with our only defeat being away to Spain.

Admittedly we've only played three of the leading nations in that time (France, Spain and Italy) and had a fairly benign qualifying group.

But nevertheless, they still have to get the results and have done so.

Performance at previous tournaments doesn't count towards the co-effecient rankings (which is how the seedings and world rankings are calculated).
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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by lo36789 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:22 pm

Only Spain, Germany, Italy and Portugal progressed further than us in the last European Championships?

Havn't we won pretty much every qualifier for Euro 2012 and Euro 2016 as well.

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:42 pm

lo36789 wrote:Only Spain, Germany, Italy and Portugal progressed further than us in the last European Championships?
That's an interesting way of saying we were knocked out in the quarter finals. We did well in the group stages, but against Italy in the last eight we were poor.

To be fair to Pete, our record at major tournaments over the last 25 years is woeful, particularly in the knock-out stages.

Since the 1990 World Cup, we've only won 3 knock-out matches at a major tournament (Spain at our home Euro 1996, Denmark in 2002 and Ecuador in 2006).

Even if we got the "nightmare" draw of Italy, Sweden and Wales, I'd still be disappointed not to make the knock-out stages (particularly when you can finish third in the group and still make it through).

You're right that we do well in qualifying (we haven't lost in any of our last three qualifying campaigns). But it's our knock-out record against the stronger nations that is our weak point.
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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by lo36789 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:21 pm

Darlogramps wrote:That's an interesting way of saying we were knocked out in the quarter finals.
Indeed - don't shout it too loudly though wouldn't want Hodgson to use it in his appraisal meetings he might get a new contract.

Had the competition been the 'normal' size then I doubt we'd have been a top seed.

It might be our knock out record that is our weak point - but the initial suggestion was that we should get a top seeding when actually we do generally get to the knockouts...but we just take the name of it too literally.

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Eoro's

Post by ArmchairDiehard » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:18 pm

lo36789 wrote:Italy, Sweden, Wales would be a nightmare. Austria, Hungary, Albania probably the best I would hope for.
Austria?

Do you not watch much international football? :lol:

They're certainly not the weakest team in pot two - one of the strongest I'd say
Quakerz wrote:
stayhigh13 wrote:I would hazard a guess as someone with a long throw who is also tall.
What about Steve Backley?

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by lo36789 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:44 pm

ArmchairDiehard wrote:They're certainly not the weakest team in pot two - one of the strongest I'd say
Italy are the strongest. Regardless of form I never fancy us to beat Ukraine, Russia or Croatia.

That left the Swiss and Austria, whilst we did really well against Switzerland in qualifiying I could just see them easily holding us to a draw with relative ease in the tournament proper.

None of the above was based on analysis of results. Purely gut opinion and just seemed to recall bad times with most teams other than Austria.

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by ArmchairDiehard » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:16 pm

Austria have been slowly building a decent side over the past few years. They were unbeaten in qualifiers and won all five of their away games.

I'd much rather play any of the other pot two sides (excluding Italy)

Switzerland, Hungary and Albania would be the best outcome for me.
Quakerz wrote:
stayhigh13 wrote:I would hazard a guess as someone with a long throw who is also tall.
What about Steve Backley?

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:36 pm

lo36789 wrote:
ArmchairDiehard wrote:They're certainly not the weakest team in pot two - one of the strongest I'd say
Italy are the strongest. Regardless of form I never fancy us to beat Ukraine, Russia or Croatia.
Why not? With the players we have, I think we'd be capable of beating all 3 of those sides.

Russia finished below Austria in qualifying so I'd much rather face them than the Austrians.
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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by BaronsCourtQuaker » Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:41 pm

Darlogramps wrote: Even if we got the "nightmare" draw of Italy, Sweden and Wales, I'd still be disappointed not to make the knock-out stages (particularly when you can finish third in the group and still make it through).
It's a bad state of affairs if were looking to go through 3rd from a 4 team group.

I actually think being able to go through 3rd is not a good thing, we are often good at doing the minimum and that lowers the target for us.

Truthfully we'll do ok. Which won't be winning the tournament nor playing scintillating football. I would be upset if we don't make it 1st or 2nd in any group we get drawn in. If we can then get through one knock out game that's probably where we are in world football these days.

It does amaze me how 'easy' it is to get an England call up these days. Your English, fast and get capped by a top 6 side your called up. We have a handful of very promising players but this euro will be way too soon for them. And of course a lot can happen in 3 years before Russia.

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by Darlo_Pete » Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:50 pm

Not wanting to state the obvious, but we need to try and win the group we are in, rather than just scrape through and then end up against one of the form sides in the knock out stages of the competition.

On a different note, I'd say quite a few fans may not go to France, especially if there are anymore attacks between now and when the Euro's start.

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:20 pm

BaronsCourtQuaker wrote:
Darlogramps wrote: Even if we got the "nightmare" draw of Italy, Sweden and Wales, I'd still be disappointed not to make the knock-out stages (particularly when you can finish third in the group and still make it through).
It's a bad state of affairs if were looking to go through 3rd from a 4 team group.

I actually think being able to go through 3rd is not a good thing, we are often good at doing the minimum and that lowers the target for us.

Truthfully we'll do ok. Which won't be winning the tournament nor playing scintillating football. I would be upset if we don't make it 1st or 2nd in any group we get drawn in.
I completely agree and wasn't suggesting we should aim for third. But the fact in a majority of groups, three out of four teams will make it through means it's inexcusable for us not to reach the knock-out stages.

Hodgson's contract runs out after the tournament and if he doesn't make the quarter finals as a minimum, he shouldn't get a new one.

Going out in the group stages or last 16 would indicate we haven't made any progress when it comes to performing in major tournaments.

Hodgson's done a lot of good while he's been in charge, particularly in terms of blooding younger players, but this is his third major tournament and needs a positive result.
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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by BaronsCourtQuaker » Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:17 am

Darlo gramps: would it make a difference to your opinions of Roy if we came third then progressed to the semi finals. Or if we came 3 and did not qualify out of the group? Just asking not looking for an argument.

For me the whole tournament has been watered down so much it's a shame.

I think Roy has done a fine job. We seen to have gathered back a little class in the way out team comes across in behaviour, and with the players we have done about as good as I'd expect. I'm not sure who would be a better choice.

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by lo36789 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:26 am

I don't buy this Roy has done a good job. He has done worse than could be expected. We expect to qualify by winning most games, we have always done in recent history apart from when we had Schteve in charge.

Then we had an abysmal world cup, we were bottom of a group where on paper we were on par with the best team IMO (Italy). Uruguay had one player who would have got in the England team, Costa Rica had none.

That was playing our contain every team we play and pass to Sterling tactics. They didn't work, we might as well try and attack teams - if we lose we lose but at least I will enjoy watching it. At the world cup we lost and I hated every minute of every game, it bored me.

Telling sign for me is that rather than watching englands last qualifier I went and watched Ashton Athletic play West Chorlton & Didsbury, because it was bound to be more entertaining.

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:59 am

BaronsCourtQuaker wrote:Darlo gramps: would it make a difference to your opinions of Roy if we came third then progressed to the semi finals. Or if we came 3 and did not qualify out of the group? Just asking not looking for an argument.
I said quarter-finals as a minimum so getting to the semis would be even better and I'd have no qualms about him staying on if we got that far.

But not getting to at least the last eight in a competition with so many average sides we are capable of beating would be a poor performance.
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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by Darlo_Pete » Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:42 pm

We need to get rid of Hodgson and bring in someone decent. I think Hodgson was just brought in as a stop gap and he's been allowed to let us just drift along.

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by AndyPark » Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:58 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:We need to get rid of Hodgson and bring in someone decent. I think Hodgson was just brought in as a stop gap and he's been allowed to let us just drift along.
Are you for real? We can only beat what's in front of us and since the World Cup we've done pretty decent.

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by lo36789 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:25 pm

Yeh...but do you remember the World Cup? When we didn't beat anything in front of us.

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by al_quaker » Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:47 pm

Italy and Uruguay were both ranked ahead of us, so the results were fully expected. Hard to read anything into the Costa Rica game, as it was a dead rubber.

The World Cup went fully as I expected really- lose our first two games against superior opposition, and an early elimination. I am however optimistic about the team which is currently emerging.

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by BaronsCourtQuaker » Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:58 pm

What I meant was, if we come third in a group and still qualify. Essentially meaning compared to previous tournaments we would be out. Thus meaning we had failed to hit your 1/4 final target. Roy goes

However in this diluted tournament we could sneek through having played poorly. Get to the 1/4 finals and you would say keep him.

International football seems to be deemed success and failure by such very small margins. Historically we were poor v Italy losing on penalties. Going back further we were poor v Spain and won on pen's and that team is hailed.

The past World Cup was terrible, but again small margins. We did pretty well v an Italy team unlucky to loose I thought. Then lost to a team inspired by one of the worlds best players. Then a final game which meant nothing. Had those three games been played with the same outcomes but in reverse. I think the story would have been 'signs of progression and going out unluckily to a good euro powerhouse of Italy'

I do hear the what your saying. Hold the ball and give to Sterling. I think Sven brought in an idea that international football is won or lost by one or two moments of individual excellence. Back then a beckham free kick. International football does seem to be slipping into a very boring game to watch, not just England I add.

It is though small margins. Those that want Roy out who would you want in? Just curious.

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:11 pm

BaronsCourtQuaker wrote:What I meant was, if we come third in a group and still qualify. Essentially meaning compared to previous tournaments we would be out. Thus meaning we had failed to hit your 1/4 final target. Roy goes
No, because you can't judge performance at Euro 2016 on the basis of previous tournaments - that's bonkers.

You judge it on the merits of this competition, including the format.

You asked if I'd want Hodgson to stay if we got to the semi-finals after finishing 3rd in the group. The answer to that is yes. It'd be bizarre to sack a manager if they'd just equalled the best major tournament in 20 years.
BaronsCourtQuaker wrote: However in this diluted tournament we could sneek through having played poorly. Get to the 1/4 finals and you would say keep him.
We could also breeze to the last 16 playing positive football. It's all guesswork and hypotheticals this stage. I certainly wouldn't complain too much if we reach the quarter finals despite playing poorly.

Would you?
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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by lo36789 » Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:58 pm

BaronsCourtQuaker wrote:It is though small margins. Those that want Roy out who would you want in? Just curious.
I have no answer for that.

English managers in the PL. Howe, Monk, Pardew, McClaren and Allardyce. The first two are quite progressive but way to inexperienced/unproven, Pardew is purely counter attacking and McLaren and Allardyce aren't an improvement on Hodgson.

I would say Brendan Rodgers, but I do feel that having another home nation manager has an edge of inherent rivalry/conflict compared with other foreign managers.

So yeh, I can't really offer an alternative. Gary Neville?

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by Darlogramps » Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:14 pm

Pochettino or Martinez would be my choice.

Both have done well with their clubs and have a track record of developing English talent.

Downsides obviously are that neither have international experience and some wouldn't like having a foreign manager.

And would they even want the job, when they're doing well at club level?

But there are very few English alternatives. There's only Pardew who I'd see as being a genuine contender from the English contingent in the PL.
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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by BaronsCourtQuaker » Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:12 pm

Would I like to see Roy go if we made the 1/4's? I guess for me there is more too it than that. I don't think it's that clean cut (although the media seem to have perpetuated that the 1/4's are always our min target). My view would depend on the group, how we played and how we went out. I do also seem to like Roy, I have no reason why other than he seems a decent guy who seems to have brought a level of respect and gravitas back to the job.

Having said that I don't see a particularly positive brand of football coming from him in the future. TODAY my mood seems to think, it would be great of we were to have a good tournament and Roy perhaps still leaves (meaning we don't all hear about root and branch changes again) we then get a more progressive looking man in charge. Looking about that would probably be Howe but that really is a huge leap or possibly Poch but I'm not keen on the foreign manager route ideally.

Ultimately I don't see us challenging for some time but it would be nice if the games were more interesting whilst we were struggling. In fact with the way the global world of football is going I'd be surprised if we ever won another major finals. Maybe we new FIFA to fall we start again and shoehorn in some rules to help us..

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by Darlo_Pete » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:33 am

A decent draw for us, as we play Russia, Wales and Slovakia. We must have every chance of progressing to the knock out stages.

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by THE PRINCE OF WALES » Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:25 am

Cant wait for 16th june.

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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by joejaques » Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:21 am

I reckon we'll do about as well as we did in the World Cup. We always f**k up when we get among the big boys. :roll:
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Re: England have every chance of progressing in the Euro's

Post by Darlo_Pete » Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:07 pm

joejaques wrote:I reckon we'll do about as well as we did in the World Cup. We always f**k up when we get among the big boys. :roll:
I bet the locals around you, are pretty excited about playing the old enemy?

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