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 Post subject: FA Cup Final
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:55 am 
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I have to say it was one of the most enjoyable games I've seen on TV for some time. Great end to end action and Arsenal deserved a great win. Looks like Wenger will be around for a few more years, as can't see him quitting now.


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 Post subject: Re: FA Cup Final
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 7:35 am 
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You do know his contract is up - so it isn't his decision to quit.


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 Post subject: Re: FA Cup Final
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 7:04 am 
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But he has been offered a new 2 year contract, so in effect it would be like quitting if he didn't take up that offer.


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 Post subject: Re: FA Cup Final
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 11:42 am 
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lo36789 wrote:
You do know his contract is up - so it isn't his decision to quit.

You do know he was offered the 2 year deal weeks back.

You keep trying to be sarcastic with people. It's not reflecting well on you.

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 Post subject: Re: FA Cup Final
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 2:41 pm 
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Wenger signs a new 2 year contract, great news in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: FA Cup Final
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 6:48 pm 
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Darlo_Pete wrote:
I have to say it was one of the most enjoyable games I've seen on TV for some time. Great end to end action


Refreshing to see a cheat sent off too.


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 Post subject: Re: FA Cup Final
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 7:20 am 
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Yep it was a blatant dive, trying to get a penalty, good spot by the referee. Although he wasn't so hot on the first Arsenal goal.


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 Post subject: Re: FA Cup Final
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 7:49 am 
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Darlogramps wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
You do know his contract is up - so it isn't his decision to quit.

You do know he was offered the 2 year deal weeks back.

You keep trying to be sarcastic with people. It's not reflecting well on you.


To be fair that was only a rumour reported, whilst the 2 years was on the table it can't have been ready to sign. The 2 year contract can only have been produced to be signed yesterday despite them saying it wouldn't be until tomorrow that the board would meet.

Thought the first goal was an interesting one. AR shouldn't have flagged given they could talk but at the same time the initial reaction from the commentators wasn't really over the handball that only really came from the studio pundits. I knew a few others thought it was a great decision and thought the ball came from too close a distance to be handball.

The strange one is that once again when these contentious decisions happen the response on social media is that video referee will resolve these instances. I really think people are expecting to much of a VAR there is way way too much grey in football.

Some people thought that the offside should have still been given because Ramsey's proximity to the ball would have impacted on the keeper. How does a VAR resolve that debate?


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 Post subject: Re: FA Cup Final
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 2:18 pm 
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lo36789 wrote:
Some people thought that the offside should have still been given because Ramsey's proximity to the ball would have impacted on the keeper. How does a VAR resolve that debate?



By allowing someone to look at the incident a number of times in slow motion.

My opinion (after watching the incident a number of times in slow motion) is that Ramsey did interfere with play.

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 Post subject: Re: FA Cup Final
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 3:31 pm 
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theoriginalfatcat wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Some people thought that the offside should have still been given because Ramsey's proximity to the ball would have impacted on the keeper. How does a VAR resolve that debate?



By allowing someone to look at the incident a number of times in slow motion.

My opinion (after watching the incident a number of times in slow motion) is that Ramsey did interfere with play.


Your opinion. Is that not the challenge it still doesn't remove the fact that these things aren't black and white.

My opinion stands that it was not offside. I am trying to find out what the panel of coaches / ex-players and managers collectively decided.


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 Post subject: Re: FA Cup Final
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:25 pm 
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lo36789 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
You do know his contract is up - so it isn't his decision to quit.

You do know he was offered the 2 year deal weeks back.

You keep trying to be sarcastic with people. It's not reflecting well on you.


To be fair that was only a rumour reported, whilst the 2 years was on the table it can't have been ready to sign. The 2 year contract can only have been produced to be signed yesterday despite them saying it wouldn't be until tomorrow that the board would meet.


Wasn't a rumour. The Arsenal board have known for weeks, maybe months they wanted Wenger to stay. Numerous respected journalists say this.

Given Wenger's divisiveness among fans, finding the right time was a PR exercise. You don't give a new deal to a manager on a poor run.

And how do you know "it can't have been ready to sign"? Got close contacts in the Arsenal boardroom have you?

If you know the deal is on the table and choose not to sign it, that's walking away - also known as "quitting."

Which is why your sarcastic response to Pete was uncalled for.

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 Post subject: Re: FA Cup Final
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:34 pm 
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lo36789 wrote:
I am trying to find out what the panel of coaches / ex-players and managers collectively decided.


Been told that the official review panel decided it was the right decision - not offside.


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 Post subject: Re: FA Cup Final
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:44 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
If you know the deal is on the table and choose not to sign it, that's walking away - also known as "quitting."


Maybe - can't really be bothered to argue the toss over it. Does not re-signing at the end of a fixed term contract always constitute quitting. I don't think that the various stupidly high day rate contractors I have come across believe they have quit because they have moved on at the end of their contract regardless of being offered an extension.

Ultimately until the contract was signed it wasn't entirely in Wenger's hands. If they hadn't won the FA Cup, and Tuchel has left Dortmund a week earlier there may have had a different outcome.


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 Post subject: Re: FA Cup Final
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:40 am 
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lo36789 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
If you know the deal is on the table and choose not to sign it, that's walking away - also known as "quitting."


Maybe - can't really be bothered to argue the toss over it. Does not re-signing at the end of a fixed term contract always constitute quitting. I don't think that the various stupidly high day rate contractors I have come across believe they have quit because they have moved on at the end of their contract regardless of being offered an extension.

Ultimately until the contract was signed it wasn't entirely in Wenger's hands. If they hadn't won the FA Cup, and Tuchel has left Dortmund a week earlier there may have had a different outcome.


What on earth are you wittering on about you thick cretin?

Wenger was offered a new deal weeks back. The board wanted him to stay. Therefore if he walked away, he'd be quitting.

It's not difficult.

Talk about not being able to admit you were wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: FA Cup Final
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:09 am 
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Darlogramps wrote:
What on earth are you wittering on about you thick cretin?


Ah yes. The classic gramps method of debate.

Walking away from a fixed term contract is not quitting. Ultimately if Wenger did nothing then the contract elapses he is no longer Arsenal manager how can you "quit" by taking no action?

Regardless my main point was until he signed he was out of contract and until Tuesday the offer on the table could have been revoked, which has they not won the FA Cup may have been.

At the point of writing he was not contracted for the future, so it was not entirely in Arsene Wenger's hands to determine whether or not he stayed at Arsenal or not.


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 Post subject: Re: FA Cup Final
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:33 am 
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So much for this:

Quote:
Maybe - can't really be bothered to argue the toss over it.


Now we're about to get three pages of your speculative made-up waffle, all because you can't accept you were wrong. For further evidence, I reference the thread where you refused to accept there wasn't an actual place called Fylde.

lo36789 wrote:
Walking away from a fixed term contract is not quitting. Ultimately if Wenger did nothing then the contract elapses he is no longer Arsenal manager how can you "quit" by taking no action?


How thick are you? There was an offer on the table! He was under employment and they wanted him to stay on. He wouldn't be walking away from the elapsed contract, he'd be walking away from the new one. I find it embarrassing I have to point this out.

Another obvious point you've missed. Making a decision not to take up the offer is not "taking no action." It's precisely the opposite.

The offer was on the table, the board wanted him, so walking away would have been quitting.

lo36789 wrote:
Regardless my main point was until he signed he was out of contract and until Tuesday the offer on the table could have been revoked, which has they not won the FA Cup may have been.

At the point of writing he was not contracted for the future, so it was not entirely in Arsene Wenger's hands to determine whether or not he stayed at Arsenal or not.


More cretinous thickness from you.

For this point to hold any water, there has to be the suggestion the board had changed their mind and wanted to withdraw the offer. Find me any suggestion or evidence that the board were going to do that. Otherwise your point is irrelevant.

You're trying to argue from a simplistic, one size fits all point of view, without any context for the Arsenal situation.

You can't just ignore all the context because it doesn't fit with your point. The context of the situation demonstrates how incorrect you are.

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 Post subject: Re: FA Cup Final
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:20 pm 
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Everyone can copy what someone else says and say "that is thick" and they say something else. It becomes so much of a battle to actually get to the point you are making as you have to strip out anything that is just a personal remark.

From...

Darlogramps wrote:
Now we're about to get three pages of your speculative made-up waffle, all because you can't accept you were wrong. For further evidence, I reference the thread where you refused to accept there wasn't an actual place called Fylde.

How thick are you? There was an offer on the table! He was under employment and they wanted him to stay on. He wouldn't be walking away from the elapsed contract, he'd be walking away from the new one. I find it embarrassing I have to point this out.

Another obvious point you've missed. Making a decision not to take up the offer is not "taking no action." It's precisely the opposite.

The offer was on the table, the board wanted him, so walking away would have been quitting.

More cretinous thickness from you.

For this point to hold any water, there has to be the suggestion the board had changed their mind and wanted to withdraw the offer. Find me any suggestion or evidence that the board were going to do that. Otherwise your point is irrelevant.

You're trying to argue from a simplistic, one size fits all point of view, without any context for the Arsenal situation.

You can't just ignore all the context because it doesn't fit with your point. The context of the situation demonstrates how incorrect you are.


you are suddenly left with...

Darlogramps wrote:
There was an offer on the table! He was under employment and they wanted him to stay on. He wouldn't be walking away from the elapsed contract, he'd be walking away from the new one.

Making a decision not to take up the offer is not "taking no action." It's precisely the opposite.

The offer was on the table, the board wanted him, so walking away would have been quitting.

For this point to hold any water, there has to be the suggestion the board had changed their mind and wanted to withdraw the offer. Find me any suggestion or evidence that the board were going to do that.

You're trying to argue from a simplistic, one size fits all point of view, without any context for the Arsenal situation.


I'll leave with one final point. A company offers me a role tomorrow, contract on the table and I decline it have I quit?


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 Post subject: Re: FA Cup Final
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:12 pm 
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lo36789 wrote:

I'll leave with one final point. A company offers me a role tomorrow, contract on the table and I decline it have I quit?


This is my point about context. You're ignoring it all because it doesn't fit your argument.

That hypothetical question you posed is entirely irrelevant to the argument we're having over Wenger. He's been at Arsenal 20 years and they wanted him to stay. This is the context you need to include in your hypothetical question.

If you'd been working for 20 years at the same company, who wanted you stay, but decided to leave, yes that would be quitting.

You're either deliberately misinterpreting the point because you refuse to accept being wrong.

Or you genuinely don't understand the argument. I suspect it's the former, but either way, both stand points are completely devoid of any intelligence.

That's why I'm calling you thick. Clearly it upsets you but you need to improve your arguments.

I also love your attempt to censor my posts above. You've not just removed any personal remarks, but also anything that's remotely critical of your argument. It demonstrates a weakness - that you get upset at criticism of your argument.

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 Post subject: Re: FA Cup Final
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:42 am 
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By allowing someone to look at the incident a number of times in slow motion.

My opinion (after watching the incident a number of times in slow motion) is that Ramsey did interfere with play.

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