Taking the Knee

[Old Git]

Disturbing reports that Millwall supporters booed at their home game yesterday when the players took the knee at the start of the game. What is surprising is that with only 2000 in the ground who were presumably season ticket holders this should happen. Not saying season ticket holders can’t misbehave but this is obviously not the actions of a few hooligans who have tagged along for trouble but died in the wool Millwall fans.
Some clubs including Boro have stopped taking the knee because they believe it has become simply a custom and has lost it’s meaning which I can understand but to disrespect those who are doing it is out of order. By their actions these so called supporters merely serve to reinforce the need to ensure racism is no longer tolerated in football.

[AndyPark]

Apparently the West Ham fans booed it aswell but Sky blocked it out.

[Darlo_Pete]

It also happened at Colchester. Sky is covering the Millwall v QPR game tonight, I think the reaction to taking the knee will be of more interest than the game. Hopefully they'll shut up & respect what the players are trying to say.

[EDJOHNS]

After seeing a comment above I posted on a WHU site I run asking if anyone was at the match and could enlighten me about any booing.
2 people came back saying they were at the match. Both reported that some people turned their backs on the players as they "took the knee", others kept on chatting and ignored what they were doing but neither heard any booing.
I know 1 of the people personally and they have no reason to not tell the truth.
My own feelings are simple. I know it will upset some. I really don't care. No-one tried to go onto the pitch or cause any trouble.
Are we now saying that you are allowed to protest, but only so long as you are taking the politically correct party line? Is that not exactly what the Nazi's and others said. Why have the players the right to protest but people do not have the right to protest at their actions if they think this should not be done at football matches?
Again, totally personally, I do not believe sport should be used in this way so had I been at the OS I would not have booed, but I would have turned my back. Not in any arranged manner, simply my own stand point.

[EDJOHNS]

Is this what you want?

The "State" is coming down on the Millwall fans and saying they can't boo. Just how far should "The state" be allowed to dictate to individuals?
Again, if the booing was racist it was wrong, but if it was protesting the taking of the knee they should have the right to say they disagree with players doing that.
.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-55227538

[Vokuhila]

As has been made clear time and again by the Premier League, 'taking the knee' is NOT political. Any booing at the London Stadium would've been, at best, ignorant.

Are you seriously saying that your first reaction to your team showing their solidarity with the wider BAME community and backing anti-discrimination would be to turn your back on them?

How do you think that might've made you feel if you were Michail Antonio, for example, and you'd seen that?

If it was me, I think I'd probably be pretty devastated that my own fans - let alone anyone else - had literally turned their backs on me.

[EDJOHNS]

Did you notice, (you may have missed it because there was no hysterical ranting by the mass media afterwards), the Millwall fans who were accused of racism at the weekend for booing the players last night applauded the same players for holding up an anti racism banner and not taking the knee.
You are sort of pulling a Gramps there Vokuhila and assuming you understand my misgivings, which should have been clearer if you looked at the second post about the Chinese football. IF, repeat IF ALL the players wanted to take the knee I would have less of a problem with it. My BUT is that I go to and watch more rugby league now than football, and when this whole taking the knee started many rugby players did not want to do so. Funny thing but most of those who did not were South sea islanders such as Samoans and Fijians, all what would be described as "People of colour". By the close of the season a lot of those, and I know this from talking to such as Wellar Houraki, and Mose Masoe of KR and David Fifita of Wakey had felt forced to join in when they did not want to. I have also seen that now all football players do it when, again, at the start, not all did. This should have remained voluntary and not forced onto people, which is why I posted about the Chinese women's football. Just how far is it "OK" to make everyone "conform"?
That is my point and my sole concern.
PS, why pick on Michael Antonio? WHU have a number of players who have various shades of skin. Or is it that you noticed he was 1 who did NOT take the knee to start but now does?

[Darlo_Pete]

I didn't watch the Millwall match, so didn't hear the booing. But on 5Live they played a clip of the booing & it was very loud, so how anybody could say they didn't hear anything is hard to believe.

[EDJOHNS]

Pete you are talking about Millwall while I was talking about WHU. There is a comment above re' booing at the OS at the weekend, while I was told there was none.

[comeondarlo]

You really are a Very strange fish Ted.

[Vokuhila]

Don't get me wrong, EDJOHNS, I understand your concerns and agree that no one should be forced to take the knee if they really don't want to, but what I can't get my head around is why anyone would turn their back on those that do [take the knee] and also those players who are choosing to show their support in other ways.

I'm assuming you meant picking out - rather than picking on - Michail Antonio, as I certainly wasn't doing the latter. He's one of the faces of the 'No Room For Racism' campaign, so he was the first West Ham player to pop into my head. As it turns out, he wasn't even playing against Man U As you point out yourself though, I'm sure I could've chosen any of the team that evening.

[Darlogramps]

Don't get me wrong, EDJOHNS, I understand your concerns and agree that no one should be forced to take the knee if they really don't want to, but what I can't get my head around is why anyone would turn their back on those that do [take the knee] and also those players who are choosing to show their support in other ways.

I'm assuming you meant picking out - rather than picking on - Michail Antonio, as I certainly wasn't doing the latter. He's one of the faces of the 'No Room For Racism' campaign, so he was the first West Ham player to pop into my head. As it turns out, he wasn't even playing against Man U As you point out yourself though, I'm sure I could've chosen any of the team that evening.

I’m with you Vokuhila.

First, no one should feel obliged to make the gesture. It’s entirely up to them, and actually I do think Ted has a point in that some players may well end up feeling pressured into something they don’t want to do.

And furthermore, no fan has to be happy about the gesture. Asking for unquestioning support isn’t right either.

However, anyone who does a modicum of research will realise this is nothing to do with Black Lives Matter the political protest group. Taking the knee is not a political act.

Taking the knee is all about solidarity and unity, showing the everyone will be treated as equal, and that we should unite to treat each other with respect and stamp out injustices.

Therefore I disagree with anyone who boos or turns their back on the gesture because they believe it is political. It isn’t. And if they know it isn’t political but choose to reject and disparage the taking the knee anyway, then that’s a much bigger, racist problem.

[theoriginalfatcat]

"Kick It Out" - football's own anti racism platform should be brought back to play.

[PierremontQuaker03]

I think this needs to be scrapped and replaced with something else- there is too much mis-conception around this and the BLM movement. It has created more division rather than attempting to reduce it.

[Darlogramps]

To be honest, it doesn’t matter whether players take a knee or not. It’s a gesture and should be up to each individual player to decide, and no one should face repercussions for their choice.

For proper change, there needs to be action including educating young fans why racially abusing people is so abhorrent, and that it’s not just “banter” or something to let off steam when you’re frustrated. This includes greater diversity at the top of the game and society generally.

What I do have an issue with is the people who have deliberately conflated taking a knee ( a solidarity gesture in support of anti-racism and equal treatment for all) with the political Black Lives Matter organisation, and use that as justification for their own bigotry.

[theoriginalfatcat]

I think this needs to be scrapped and replaced with something else- there is too much mis-conception around this and the BLM movement. It has created more division rather than attempting to reduce it.

I agree, "replaced with something else" being the key thing.

I could be wrong here but I'm sure I've seen "Black Lives Matter" written as a logo on my TV screen whilst live matches have been on. If people are mixing up taking the knee with the B.L.M. movement (whether that be good or bad) this could be why.