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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
Good, balanced assessment JE93. The only change I'd make to that team (presuming Wheatley is fit enough to start) is start Saunders over Ainge. He did terrifically against Telford and for me, deserves another chance. But I see the case for starting Ainge too.

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I think that's the big questions in the team. Both players have positives.

Harvey has looked much improved this season. His movement is better which is making his raw pace even harder to play against. And getting in those right positions is giving him more confidence.

There was a slight hidden agenda to wanting Ainge in. Styche hasn't been at his best in the last couple of weeks. We all know Styche with fire in his belly is one of the best strikers in this league. We also know Styche likes to be a bit of a top dog. So what might help fire him up when he's back from international duty? How about watching Ainge get back into his pomp and taking his position with a strong performance and a couple of goals. Could lead to the kind of battle for places that we need to keep the levels high and hopefully inspire a run of form.

I would agree though that whoever starts if they can grab some goals they will earn the right to do it again against Boston. Even if Styche is back.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:47 pm 
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real_darlo_85 wrote:
HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
I'd hope we have up to 400 make the trip over for this vital game.

Why a vital game??

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Because they're bottom and we're fourth bottom.

To be fair it's not gonna define any of our seasons as we are only in October maybe if we are both still where we are (which is more than likely) then we can say it's a vital game but NOT now FFS...


It's vital in the sense that if we can't beat these, then who else do we measure up against. These are bottom for a reason and if we can't beat these then TW has to do the right thing.

And we are 4th bottom for a reason.. And it does not give us the God dam right to beat them because we are Darlington Fc and a bigger club mentally we should be beating these Shite bottom teams, You have to work harder and want it more , it doesn't matter what happens on the training pitch it's how they play as a team and up for the fight

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:14 pm 
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HarrytheQuaker wrote:
And we are 4th bottom for a reason.. And it does not give us the God dam right to beat them because we are Darlington Fc and a bigger club mentally we should be beating these Shite bottom teams, You have to work harder and want it more , it doesn't matter what happens on the training pitch it's how they play as a team and up for the fight

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What's the reason we're 4th bottom Harry?

We were told by TW and DJ that, with the extra quality in the squad, we should be challenging for play-offs this season. So if we're 4th bottom, it suggests the manager is largely at fault for not getting the best out of his squad - given that squad by his own admission is capable of challenging for a top 10 finish (he said we had more quality than the squad which finished 12th last year, hence why I say top 10).

No one is saying we're entitled to beat FC United. More that failing to beat them would be a hell of a damning indictment for a squad that supposedly is capable of challenging for the play-offs.

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Last edited by Darlogramps on Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:16 pm 
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JE93 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Good, balanced assessment JE93. The only change I'd make to that team (presuming Wheatley is fit enough to start) is start Saunders over Ainge. He did terrifically against Telford and for me, deserves another chance. But I see the case for starting Ainge too.

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I think that's the big questions in the team. Both players have positives.

Harvey has looked much improved this season. His movement is better which is making his raw pace even harder to play against. And getting in those right positions is giving him more confidence.

There was a slight hidden agenda to wanting Ainge in. Styche hasn't been at his best in the last couple of weeks. We all know Styche with fire in his belly is one of the best strikers in this league. We also know Styche likes to be a bit of a top dog. So what might help fire him up when he's back from international duty? How about watching Ainge get back into his pomp and taking his position with a strong performance and a couple of goals. Could lead to the kind of battle for places that we need to keep the levels high and hopefully inspire a run of form.

I would agree though that whoever starts if they can grab some goals they will earn the right to do it again against Boston. Even if Styche is back.


If you want to see if the Telford game wasnt a one off then you start Saunders with Thompson as the captain. I presume the latter would happen anyway.
If you are playing one up top then is Ainge the right man for that? He seems to prefer to play with his back to goal whereas Styche can do that and run the channels. Saunders can run all day so he would be my pick if its one up top as he will stretch the defence more making room for others. If Syers isnt fit enough to start then play Ainge & Saunders and go 442.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:18 pm 
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two teams full of no confidence got 0-0 written all over it {hope not though}


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:40 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
HarrytheQuaker wrote:
And we are 4th bottom for a reason.. And it does not give us the God dam right to beat them because we are Darlington Fc and a bigger club mentally we should be beating these Shite bottom teams, You have to work harder and want it more , it doesn't matter what happens on the training pitch it's how they play as a team and up for the fight

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What's the reason we're 4th bottom Harry?

We were told by TW and DJ that, with the extra quality in the squad, we should be challenging for play-offs this season. So if we're 4th bottom, it suggests the manager is largely at fault for not getting the best out of his squad - given that squad by his own admission is capable of challenging for a top 10 finish (he said we had more quality than the squad which finished 12th last year, hence why I say top 10).

No one is saying we're entitled to beat FC United. More that failing to beat them would be a hell of a damning indictment for a squad that supposedly is capable of challenging for the play-offs.

If TW has anything about him he will have a letter of resignation in his arse pocket on Saturday in case we don’t beat FC United.Making the trip over but I’m buggered if I know why.Blind optimism I suppose.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:49 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
HarrytheQuaker wrote:
And we are 4th bottom for a reason.. And it does not give us the God dam right to beat them because we are Darlington Fc and a bigger club mentally we should be beating these Shite bottom teams, You have to work harder and want it more , it doesn't matter what happens on the training pitch it's how they play as a team and up for the fight

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What's the reason we're 4th bottom Harry?

We were told by TW and DJ that, with the extra quality in the squad, we should be challenging for play-offs this season. So if we're 4th bottom, it suggests the manager is largely at fault for not getting the best out of his squad - given that squad by his own admission is capable of challenging for a top 10 finish (he said we had more quality than the squad which finished 12th last year, hence why I say top 10).

No one is saying we're entitled to beat FC United. More that failing to beat them would be a hell of a damning indictment for a squad that supposedly is capable of challenging for the play-offs.

Just because we spent money doesn't give u instant success, people shouldn't spout out at the start of the season we have a good squad to be pushing for promotion how would they know have they been around the football league's for years did they even know some of the names of the players as us fans probably didn't know, it all adds extra pressure.. TW has a relatively small squad and most of us knew that could be a problem at some point , simply we cant spend spend spend which is fine as it don't automatically give u success but it will help... Spend it on the ground you say and the fans will come... Just shows if the TEAM ain't doing well then the money (fair weather fans-Plastic)won't be there Simples!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:10 pm 
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By "people shouldn't spout out at the start of the season", I presume you're including our own manager in that. The one who said we had a better quality squad than last season. The same one you defend and tell people to get off his back.

As for questioning DJ, he knows our budget much better than you. He's done a fine job off-the-field so I trust him when he says we can be challenging between 6th and 8th. I don't see why he needs to have decades of Football League experience to be able to say that.

And even if we were mid-table with an idea of our identity and style, the criticism would be less. It's the fact we're doing so badly that makes people question TW. Surely you must see that?

Anyway, what's wrong with a bit of optimism? If DJ believes the budget is capable of getting us towards the play-offs, why can't he say that? I thought we were all about transparency and openness these days. If TW can't handle any pressure that comes with that, he shouldn't be in the job.

No one has said we should be getting instant success. But it's not unreasonable to suggest we've got a budget capable of getting us into the top 10. Yet we're one point above the drop zone.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:33 pm 
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HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
HarrytheQuaker wrote:
And we are 4th bottom for a reason.. And it does not give us the God dam right to beat them because we are Darlington Fc and a bigger club mentally we should be beating these Shite bottom teams, You have to work harder and want it more , it doesn't matter what happens on the training pitch it's how they play as a team and up for the fight

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What's the reason we're 4th bottom Harry?

We were told by TW and DJ that, with the extra quality in the squad, we should be challenging for play-offs this season. So if we're 4th bottom, it suggests the manager is largely at fault for not getting the best out of his squad - given that squad by his own admission is capable of challenging for a top 10 finish (he said we had more quality than the squad which finished 12th last year, hence why I say top 10).

No one is saying we're entitled to beat FC United. More that failing to beat them would be a hell of a damning indictment for a squad that supposedly is capable of challenging for the play-offs.

Just because we spent money doesn't give u instant success, people shouldn't spout out at the start of the season we have a good squad to be pushing for promotion how would they know have they been around the football league's for years did they even know some of the names of the players as us fans probably didn't know, it all adds extra pressure.. TW has a relatively small squad and most of us knew that could be a problem at some point , simply we cant spend spend spend which is fine as it don't automatically give u success but it will help... Spend it on the ground you say and the fans will come... Just shows if the TEAM ain't doing well then the money (fair weather fans-Plastic)won't be there Simples!!!

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The reason for the negatively is because at the moment we are 4th from bottom and a place above relegation. All well and good if that's the expectations of the club BUT it isn't and TW/DJ said in the summer after the squad overhaul it would be one capable of being in and around the playoffs.

From recent performances and results the fact is can we achieve the bare minimum under TW? Sadly, at the moment, it's a no. There can't be any excuses for not beating the bottom club and even if this is achieved, positive results will have to take on some sort of consistency to silence those who have always had their doubts about TW's ability.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:08 pm 
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Optimism is fine , I'd never say at the start of any season we should be here or there just because of who we had bought...You earn the right to be in the playoffs and near the top and have to play well which we ain't doing and YES it's down to the manager ultimately.. BUT I think he will get it right it takes time.. And if we are still where we are at Christmas then yes it's time to go simple as that

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:04 pm 
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I think it would help if we relieved Styche of the captaincy. He's an individualist and operates best when he's focused on just one thing - scoring goals - and worrying about sorting out the other ten gets in the way. On top of that, up front he can't see the whole picture - he needs to be looking forward, not behind him at what's going on - we need someone further back who can get a clear vision of play and control it from there. Who?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:09 pm 
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jonn wrote:
I think it would help if we relieved Styche of the captaincy. He's an individualist and operates best when he's focused on just one thing - scoring goals - and worrying about sorting out the other ten gets in the way. On top of that, up front he can't see the whole picture - he needs to be looking forward, not behind him at what's going on - we need someone further back who can get a clear vision of play and control it from there. Who?
I think you're overestimating the importance of the captaincy to be honest. On the pitch it means jack-shit. It's TW's job to sort out the other 10, not Styche.

Styche's bad form isn't because of the captaincy. It's because he's not getting the regular service, the quality supply from the midfield, which has been chopped and changed too often, in terms of personnel, formation and style.

With a bit of consistency, the supply to Styche will improve, as will his performances and goalscoring rates.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:12 pm 
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jonn wrote:
I think it would help if we relieved Styche of the captaincy. He's an individualist and operates best when he's focused on just one thing - scoring goals - and worrying about sorting out the other ten gets in the way. On top of that, up front he can't see the whole picture - he needs to be looking forward, not behind him at what's going on - we need someone further back who can get a clear vision of play and control it from there. Who?
No one said that last season, the only argument for losing the armband (for me) would be that he spends more time arguing than trying to lift the team. Both Hughes and ainge seem to try and motivate more.





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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:37 am 
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I would prefer to see Saunders up front with Syers as opposed to Ainge who frankly has not recently even justified his place on the bench. We can then play quick passing to feet we saw against Telford and maybe yes maybe, with most of the team wanting and trying to win the second balls that fly around where Hughes(give him the armband) leads by example!
I'm still not sure about O'hanlon he is still too lightweight, attackers easily ghost in behind him(and they know it) and stronger forwards brush past or get in most crosses. Put Galbraith LB and give Burn another chance.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:00 am 
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Darlogramps seems to have a very unusual view of captaincy.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:40 am 
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jjljks wrote:
Darlogramps seems to have a very unusual view of captaincy.
Go on. Elaborate on that. Why do you disagree?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:30 am 
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jjljks wrote:
Darlogramps seems to have a very unusual view of captaincy.


I'm not sure he does.

Various managers, pundits and fans seem to feel that the role of captain is overrated now and more superficial than it was. i.e. you need players to be vocal in all positions all over the pitch - they all have their own jobs and responsibilities and should help each other out at all times.

Personally I'm not too sure that Styche is the right choice for captain. To me, someone calmer and placed more central would be better for the team, but it's debatable how much difference it would actually make once the game kicks off.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:27 am 
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theoriginalfatcat wrote:
jjljks wrote:
Darlogramps seems to have a very unusual view of captaincy.


I'm not sure he does.

Various managers, pundits and fans seem to feel that the role of captain is overrated now and more superficial than it was. i.e. you need players to be vocal in all positions all over the pitch - they all have their own jobs and responsibilities and should help each other out at all times.

Personally I'm not too sure that Styche is the right choice for captain. To me, someone calmer and placed more central would be better for the team, but it's debatable how much difference it would actually make once the game kicks off.


Its my opinion a central defender or centre midfielder usually makes the best captain and they are more involved in the game, no matter what side of the pitch the ball is and are closer to most of the other players to give the verbal kick up the backside etc. Keepers and strikers dont make good captains usually.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:46 am 
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Let's be honest it was a mistake by TW to strip Turnbull of the captaincy. Turnbull was a well respected player, knew what he was doing in that role and had just done a good job in steadying the ship as joint caretaker manager.

It was a strange and unfair action by TW to take the armband off him and hand it to someone who didnt really know the club and despite being a good forward was not captain material for a number of reasons.

It also helped to cement the impression that the players being brought in were the favoured ones and players like Turnbull were now on the outside and i dont think it was in the best interests of the club at the time. Maybe TW didnt realise it would come across like that and that it was a mistake but therein lies part of the problem with the TW package. And he seems too intransigent to select a better candidate for the job now. And one of the problems with the TW squad now is that suitable possibles for the role are few and far between.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:53 am 
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LoidLucan wrote:
Let's be honest it was a mistake by TW to strip Turnbull of the captaincy. Turnbull was a well respected player, knew what he was doing in that role and had just done a good job in steadying the ship as joint caretaker manager.

It was a strange and unfair action by TW to take the armband off him and hand it to someone who didnt really know the club and despite being a good forward was not captain material for a number of reasons.

It also helped to cement the impression that the players being brought in were the favoured ones and players like Turnbull were now on the outside and i dont think it was in the best interests of the club at the time. Maybe TW didnt realise it would come across like that and that it was a mistake but therein lies part of the problem with the TW package.


Stuff like that happens all the time at different clubs, I remember Brian Little doing exactly the same when he signed Paul Dyson and made him captain straight away. We still got relegated though! A new manager always has his favourites and thinks nothing of rocking the boat with the old managers players.
Who's to say it wouldnt have happened had someone other than Wright got the job?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Yes it does happen but it's usually because youve brought in an outstanding and suitably qualified candidate for that role who you think would be a better captain and leader for the club.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:45 pm 
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It seems by general consensus the main functions of a captain largely are about offering motivation and doing a bit of organising. Not a great deal when it comes to tactics then.

In that instance, surely it's much better to have a handful of experienced leaders on the pitch in different positions to offer direction and motivation. That way you get better organisation as more people are doing it, and can do it in their specialist positions (I.e. a defender organises defenders, midfielder organises midfielders etc).

Beyond Styche and Hughes, who are those people for us? TW got rid of the rest of them in the summer and didn't replace them.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:31 pm 
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The romanticism people put on captains makes me laugh. If a player is one who shouts/organises/cajoles, then they should do it regardless of whether they have an extra piece of material on their arm.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:24 pm 
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LoidLucan wrote:
Yes it does happen but it's usually because youve brought in an outstanding and suitably qualified candidate for that role who you think would be a better captain and leader for the club.


Wright obviously thought Styche was a better person for the job.
Its only been recently when hes started firing blanks that people have really made an issue of it.
At the time it happened I thought it was harsh on Turnbull but he was in and out of the team at the time.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:52 pm 
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Yeah I seem to remember a couple of times he left turnbull on the bench and started with Scott... not among TW's finest moments. The upturn in fortunes came when he finally had a settled back four with Turnbull sat in front of them. I better stop now as people will think I'm suggesting TW's reign has seen a succession of personnel, selection, tactical, organisational and consistency issues accompanied by a dreadful long-term win ratio!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:56 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
It seems by general consensus the main functions of a captain largely are about offering motivation and doing a bit of organising. Not a great deal when it comes to tactics then.

In that instance, surely it's much better to have a handful of experienced leaders on the pitch in different positions to offer direction and motivation. That way you get better organisation as more people are doing it, and can do it in their specialist positions (I.e. a defender organises defenders, midfielder organises midfielders etc).

Beyond Styche and Hughes, who are those people for us? TW got rid of the rest of them in the summer and didn't replace them.


Answer Gramps - there are none. Alan White has admitted in an interview after one of the games (possible Altrincham) that he HOPED the current players would be able to get into the habit of doing that, but some of them are just not those types of characters. He then said that too many players were quiet on the pitch and this could well be affecting results. Possibly an oversight in recruitment? Myself, I think so if AW has admitted it's a problem.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:07 pm 
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Didnt TW decide on the balance of the squad and what type of players it had... ie if they were leaders and organisers etc? Don't managers always bang on about recruiting the right characters etc? If the squad doesnt have leaders and organisers there's only one person responsible. And lets be honest its blindingly obvious that the team falls short in that department compared to other clubs we have played this season.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:43 pm 
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Reading the balanced view thread made me think the recent memories of going bust are still painful and shaping views of the club and this season. I think that's true for me and staying in this league would be a happy outcome. Wright and White are the only ones who can do this partly because they're the best we can get. I also think a point might be realistic on Saturday the players at FC will be seeing this as a must win too.
Regarding captains, I think they do make a difference - Kevan Smith wasn't the tidiest player but he was an inspiring captain. I'm surprised he never went into management.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:25 pm 
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Wiseacre wrote:
Reading the balanced view thread made me think the recent memories of going bust are still painful and shaping views of the club and this season. I think that's true for me and staying in this league would be a happy outcome. Wright and White are the only ones who can do this partly because they're the best we can get. I also think a point might be realistic on Saturday the players at FC will be seeing this as a must win too.
Regarding captains, I think they do make a difference - Kevan Smith wasn't the tidiest player but he was an inspiring captain. I'm surprised he never went into management.



You say that, but plenty more great on field captains have struggled or at best disappointed as managers. Tony Adams, Roy Keane, Terry butcher. They were all good at the on field bit of telling players where to be and getting organised. Managers talk about not being able to make players do their job once theyre on the pitch. Captains can. It's really not an indicator that somebody will make a great manager as they do different jobs.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:53 pm 
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Ainge to start, according to the Echo.

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