Newport v Darlington Match Thread

[DarloOnTheUp]

What a shame, we've absolutely battered them in that second half! Quakerz, you can moan about Senior and Modest as much as you like, our issues are defensive. If our defence was on the ball tonight we would have got something out of that. How many games do we fail to score in? Not many? How many games do we give away stupid goals that cost us points? Far too many.

The stats don't quite back that up.

We're the 5th lowest scorers in the league. With the 3rd best defensive record.

The facts do back it up. How many points would we have been better off if not for last minute captiulations or defensive blunders? The goals we *have* scored *should* have been enough to have gotten us a considerable amount of extra points. I'll concede some ground with the strikers, it certainly wouldn't hurt to add to the frontline and find an ideal partner for Hatch next season, but trying to say that the points we've dropped *specifically* due to defensive lapses and individual errors by hiding behind a vague statistic doesn't cut it at all. If you're going to scrutinize at one end you must do it at the other.

Oh, and my statistic wasn't vague at all. Read it: it shows that the bottom team (Histon) are more prolific than us away from home.

[loan_star]

Campbell will come good, even though I'd forgotten about him! Showed enough promise in his early games to be worth sticking with.

[DarloOnTheUp]

No, some of the players that are getting slated here are much better than some of these cop out posts suggest, and our supposed "all mighty" defence is not as good as a lot of people have convinced themselves, despite the stats. Pepe Reina kept a lot of clean sheets in the past, doesn't change the fact he can be an error prone liability. Stats are not always the be all and end all in football.

Bad example. Reina makes one error in a million, and is one of the best keepers in the world (hence all his clean sheets). His stats are backed up by his ability.

[walshys_wingman_11]

To be fair to Wright, he has never had a long enough run in the team.

Cooper sees him in training every day.

I agree he does but he saw Chandler in training everyday as well in the first half of the season.........I just dont think you can be too critical of a lad who is not getting regular starts.

[Darlo.For.Life]

I think Campbell and Hatch could work next season after a pre season under there belts. I wouldn't mind seeing Marna in a Darlington shirt next season either.

[DarloOnTheUp]

No, some of the players that are getting slated here are much better than some of these cop out posts suggest, and our supposed "all mighty" defence is not as good as a lot of people have convinced themselves, despite the stats. Pepe Reina kept a lot of clean sheets in the past, doesn't change the fact he can be an error prone liability. Stats are not always the be all and end all in football.

Define "better". Surely they would be better if they scored goals, perhaps? How many have Senior, Campbell, Wright, and Modest scored BETWEEN them, never mind each.

[TFDM]

I'm still a bit on the fence with Senior. He did well before his injury but think he'd probably do better in a regular 4-4-2. He's done okay in fits and starts since coming back and influenced a couple of a games but he'll be judged on goals at the end of the day. I'd like to see how he does in the remaining few games before I make my mind up but I reckon he might be in danger of getting the chop.

Hatch is fine. Scored plenty and his work-rate is excellent. He's a real linchpin in the side. Campbell could do okay with a proper pre-season behind him. He's shown enough for me and I reckon a real pre-season could go a long way to helping him.

Wright for me has enough chances and hasn't made the most of his time in the side for me. If we can he needs to go (is he out of contract at the end of the season?). Curtis Main I also think has lost his way in the last season or so. I was willing to overlook last season since we were managed by a muppet for large periods (Staunton) but like Wright I don't think he's done enough. I'd let Main go and use Smith as the young understudy forward.

That leaves us with Hatch, Campbell, Smith and maybe Senior depending on how he gets on. There is room for another forward there (maybe two as I bet Wright is on a decent wage).

[Comfortably_numb]

But wasn't senior someone with the kind of scoring record we'd approve of at his previous club?

If Cooper targeted another striker who'd bagged 17 goals in his last season we'd all be happy enough with that. As we were when Senior signed.

Maybe loan signings are the way ahead - more flexibility (modest's loan deal excepted)

[DarloAL]

More emphasis has been placed on the fact that we've conceded late goals because we havn't been scoring ourselves. If we had been banging them in nothing would have been said because games would have been won. The stats on us scoring so few can't be ignored.
On another note, I fucking hate Ivan Ash! Why the hell was he commentating for us tonight? Twice he had me jumping and shouting in my front room towards the end tonight! "AND IT'S THERE.........no it isn't!" And when we were attacking, "PENALTY.......no it hasn't been given!" Wanker! I've hated him since I heard him call Neil Austin, Neil Orrstin on BBC Boro a while ago!

[Quakerz]

No, some of the players that are getting slated here are much better than some of these cop out posts suggest, and our supposed "all mighty" defence is not as good as a lot of people have convinced themselves, despite the stats. Pepe Reina kept a lot of clean sheets in the past, doesn't change the fact he can be an error prone liability. Stats are not always the be all and end all in football.

Define "better". Surely they would be better if they scored goals, perhaps? How many have Senior, Campbell, Wright, and Modest scored BETWEEN them, never mind each.

11. In about a billion league and cup games.

Bridge-Wilkinson has 11. On his own. From midfield. And he only pissing signed in mid October, when 16 league games had already been played.

[DarloOnTheUp]

The buck has to stop somewhere. If we aren't scoring enough goals then either we aren't creating enough chances or we aren't putting chances away. Since it appears we're creating plenty then it is obvious where the problem lies.

[Breedon]

Are you meant to base your opinion on a player based on a set of data collected by stato's or actually watching them play? Is Senior a prolific goal scorer? No. Is he a talented player at this level and asset to the team based on how he can link up and create things out of nothing? Yes.

I've always seen Reina as a Fabien Barthez figure, capable of the unthinkably sublime, and the absolutely ridiculous. On his day he is a superb keeper, one of the top keepers around for sure, but so many times his comedy errors have cost Liverpool in big games. He is far more error prone than the other top keepers in the Premiership. Probably capable of more agile and spectacular saves too, but error prone never the less.

[quakermass]

Campbell and Hatch at the mo are the front 2 I'd stick with. Before his hand injury Campbell showed us he has what it takes to be a good forward at this level. Not only does he have a good shot on him him he can create goals, can beat a man and set up goals for others, something the other shower we have can't seem to do.OK he's gone off the boil a tad,but a full pre-season should put that right.
Main, Senior, Wright and Modest are poor and we should get shot. For the first half of the season I wasn't decided on Senior, but of late he's looked out of his depth and just runs around a lot, not really looking like scoring.
I'm not a fan of Smith's but he's worth keeping as a replacement for Hatch should he get injured, but not to be played alongside Hatch as it doesn't work.
Coops is probs lucky that Smith was cup tied against Gateshead as if he wasn't I reckon he'd have played and we wouldn't be going to London on the 7th.
Thankfully we have the nucleaus of a good side still under contract going into next season, but Coops (or whoevers in charge) still has a bit to do yet, as recent results have proven we're still a bit away from being a top 5 side

[Quakerz]

To be fair to Wright, he has never had a long enough run in the team.

Cooper sees him in training every day.

I agree he does but he saw Chandler in training everyday as well in the first half of the season.........I just dont think you can be too critical of a lad who is not getting regular starts.

Not being critical of him, but it is blatantly obvious that his number is up, and when he has played he's looked no better than the others really, has he?

[TFDM]

But wasn't senior someone with the kind of scoring record we'd approve of at his previous club?

If Cooper targeted another striker who'd bagged 17 goals in his last season we'd all be happy enough with that. As we were when Senior signed.

Maybe loan signings are the way ahead - more flexibility (modest's loan deal excepted)

Up until his injury I would have agreed with you. But he has only scored four in the league and has to be judged with what he has done here and not previously. It would be a shame if he did go because he looks a useful player but forwards are judged on goals and he hasn't scored since October (I think). He is going to have to score a few goals between now and the end of the season to be in with a shout (for me at least anyway). I know he's been injured but to be worth a few deal I reckon he has to double his league tally for the season before the end of the season to be in with a shout.

[jjmick]

The only good forwards we have are Hatch and Campbell (potentially).
Senior CAN be OK.
Michael Smith CAN be very average at best in my opinion.
Wright is gash.
Modest is wank.
Main...

[Quakerz]

Campbell and Hatch at the mo are the front 2 I'd stick with. Before his hand injury Campbell showed us he has what it takes to be a good forward at this level. Not only does he have a good shot on him him he can create goals, can beat a man and set up goals for others, something the other shower we have can't seem to do.OK he's gone off the boil a tad,but a full pre-season should put that right.
Main, Senior, Wright and Modest are poor and we should get shot. For the first half of the season I wasn't decided on Senior, but of late he's looked out of his depth and just runs around a lot, not really looking like scoring.
I'm not a fan of Smith's but he's worth keeping as a replacement for Hatch should he get injured, but not to be played alongside Hatch as it doesn't work.
Coops is probs lucky that Smith was cup tied against Gateshead as if he wasn't I reckon he'd have played and we wouldn't be going to London on the 7th.
Thankfully we have the nucleaus of a good side still under contract going into next season, but Coops (or whoevers in charge) still has a bit to do yet, as recent results have proven we're still a bit away from being a top 5 side

Not really, we are a consistant forward away from being a top 5 side, as goals win games. We could easily have got a point tonight, beaten Kettering and Altrincham if we could score goals. We'd be level with York. And that is allowing fuck ups in recent games at Gatehead, Tamworth and Forest Green to still stand.

[DarloOnTheUp]

Are you meant to base your opinion on a player based on a set of data collected by stato's or actually watching them play? Is Senior a prolific goal scorer? No. Is he a talented player at this level and asset to the team based on how he can link up and create things out of nothing? Yes.

I've always seen Reina as a Fabien Barthez figure, capable of the unthinkably sublime, and the absolutely ridiculous. On his day he is a superb keeper, one of the top keepers around for sure, but so many times his comedy errors have cost Liverpool in big games. He is far more error prone than the other top keepers in the Premiership. Probably capable of more agile and spectacular saves too, but error prone never the less.

WRONG. He has made a couple of "comedy" errors this season, but over the years he has usually been Mr. Reliable. I do not know what other errors you are referring to. Perhaps his heart isn't in it anymore at Liverpool? You are making him sound like fucking Mark Samways with all these apparent calamitous errors. He hardly makes any! Hence the stats showing loads of clean sheets.

[number_one]

List me Reina's top five gaff's this season.

[quakermass]

Not convinced we are only one forward away from being a top side. We need another two forwards and two good wide men to at least give us another plan b.
IMO in recent matches we haven't looked a great threat going forward and when that's the case it's not just down to one guy upfront.
On a positive, the players under contract such as Miller, Bridge Wilkinson, Hatch, Campbell, Chandler et al, give us the backbone of a solid side to build on pre-season.
I'd also get Russell tied to a new deal ASAP.

[fat tony]

Are you meant to base your opinion on a player based on a set of data collected by stato's or actually watching them play? Is Senior a prolific goal scorer? No. Is he a talented player at this level and asset to the team based on how he can link up and create things out of nothing? Yes.

Yeh but we were talking about the defence and attack as a whole. 5th worst attack in the league and 3rd best defence in the league isn't vague, it's about as clear as you can get. The metric you seem to be using is your own subjective opinion about whether should have defended in properly in some games.

[Breedon]

He'll keep a clean sheet against Fulham on a weekend and palm a cross into his own net in the Champions League Quarter Final 2nd Leg with the game poised and extremely close...like he did against Chelsea for example. He has a habbit of doing it big games or against the big teams in the premiership which has probably highlighted and exaggerated it to a point in my mind, but this is just it, you cant call him one of the best keepers in the world because Liverpool had a very good defence for a few seasons and he pulls off fantastic saves, all of the worlds top keepers pull off the fantastic saves, and they also win trophys because they dont make comedy mistakes.

Haha, he's not exactly knocking on Mark Samways' door, I'm more saying howlers by premiership standards than our standards, I'm sure you know what I mean, he is a very good keeper, one of the best in premiership on his day, but by contrast I'd look to his position in the pecking order at National level before calling him among the best in the world. There are a lot more consistent performers who play a huge part in winning teams than Reina around the world.

[DarloOnTheUp]

He'll keep a clean sheet against Fulham on a weekend and palm a cross into his own net in the Champions League Quarter Final 2nd Leg with the game poised and extremely close...like he did against Chelsea for example. He has a habbit of doing it big games or against the big teams in the premiership which has probably highlighted and exaggerated it to a point in my mind, but this is just it, you cant call him one of the best keepers in the world because Liverpool had a very good defence for a few seasons and he pulls off fantastic saves, all of the worlds top keepers pull off the fantastic saves, and they also win trophys because they dont make comedy mistakes.

Haha, he's not exactly knocking on Mark Samways' door, I'm more saying howlers by premiership standards than our standards, I'm sure you know what I mean, he is a very good keeper, one of the best in premiership on his day, but by contrast I'd look to his position in the pecking order at National level before calling him among the best in the world. There are a lot more consistent performers who play a huge part in winning teams than Reina around the world.

Total rubbish. He has made about two errors this season and all of a sudden he can't be relied upon. I actually can't remember ANY mistakes he has made in previous seasons, and it's far too simplistic to say this is because the defence was better. And he is second in the pecking order simply because Casillas is awesome. His defence at Real is better than Liverpool's ever has been, yet you won't mention this about Casillas since it doesn't help your flawed point.

[Breedon]

I love how you present every opinion you have as an undeniable fact and appear to get so furiously angry when anyone disagrees with you! Its just a debate mate, I'm not insulting your family (unless Reina is related to you, which for all I know he could be, in which case I apologise!) Well I've just mentioned one of his high profile errors from a previous season for you. There was a corker of a sliced clearence last season that springs to mind, not to mention his effort against Arsenal this. I'm not saying he can't be relied upon and went out of my way to frequently say he IS a very good goalkeeper, but at the same time he's made enough howlers in his time at Liverpool for myself and many other regular watchers of football to note that he is *capable* of cocking up and costing his team, not that he does it every week, just he does do it with more regularity than his many rivals for the position of best keeper in the premiership/world.

He was third in Spain's pecking order last time I checked, behind Casillas and Valdes, both of whome indeed do have a terrific team infront of them, and by no means was I trying to insinuate that Reina's run of clean sheets was only because of his defence, but the fact remains that an entire defence AND the goalkeeper contribute to clean sheet over the course of 90 minutes, but what seperates the very good from the great is how they handle big, high pressure moments, and Reina will either be a massive hit or a massive miss in these character building situations. The FA Cup final with West Ham is a great example of how Reina is like Barthez, 2 big errors that cost his team 2 crucial goals, but he then comes up trumps with a heroic display in the penalty shootout. Sublime and Ridiculous all in the same breath.

By the same logic Darlo's defence this season, yes for the majority of games they've looked comfortable, safe and played very well as a unit for a good 85 minutes, and haven't conceded a lot of goals in total, but that doesn't make the fact that some of the goals we have conceeded have been extremely avoidable any less harder to take. By the same merit I hear what people are saying about Senior, yes he's lively and plays some good stuff, but he doesn't score enough goals and that cant be ignored, fair points.

I dont mind if you totally disagree with everything I'm saying, sports fans will all have their own opinions and its only natural for them to clash from time to time, but I have no reason to go out of my way to pick on Reina or anyone else I may mention, its just an innocent and honest opinion I've formed from games I've seen.

[number_one]

Can I have a detailed list of these high profile errors please, beach ball not included.

[DarloOnTheUp]

I love how you present every opinion you have as an undeniable fact and appear to get so furiously angry when anyone disagrees with you! Its just a debate mate, I'm not insulting your family (unless Reina is related to you, which for all I know he could be, in which case I apologise!) Well I've just mentioned one of his high profile errors from a previous season for you. There was a corker of a sliced clearence last season that springs to mind, not to mention his effort against Arsenal this. I'm not saying he can't be relied upon and went out of my way to frequently say he IS a very good goalkeeper, but at the same time he's made enough howlers in his time at Liverpool for myself and many other regular watchers of football to note that he is *capable* of cocking up and costing his team, not that he does it every week, just he does do it with more regularity than his many rivals for the position of best keeper in the premiership/world.

He was third in Spain's pecking order last time I checked, behind Casillas and Valdes, both of whome indeed do have a terrific team infront of them, and by no means was I trying to insinuate that Reina's run of clean sheets was only because of his defence, but the fact remains that an entire defence AND the goalkeeper contribute to clean sheet over the course of 90 minutes, but what seperates the very good from the great is how they handle big, high pressure moments, and Reina will either be a massive hit or a massive miss in these character building situations. The FA Cup final with West Ham is a great example of how Reina is like Barthez, 2 big errors that cost his team 2 crucial goals, but he then comes up trumps with a heroic display in the penalty shootout. Sublime and Ridiculous all in the same breath.

By the same logic Darlo's defence this season, yes for the majority of games they've looked comfortable, safe and played very well as a unit for a good 85 minutes, and haven't conceded a lot of goals in total, but that doesn't make the fact that some of the goals we have conceeded have been extremely avoidable any less harder to take. By the same merit I hear what people are saying about Senior, yes he's lively and plays some good stuff, but he doesn't score enough goals and that cant be ignored, fair points.

I dont mind if you totally disagree with everything I'm saying, sports fans will all have their own opinions and its only natural for them to clash from time to time, but I have no reason to go out of my way to pick on Reina or anyone else I may mention, its just an innocent and honest opinion I've formed from games I've seen.

Either way, my point was that Reina was a bad example as the stat showing his massive amount of clean sheets DOES highlight how good a keeper he is. Just how the stat showing our lack of goals + low number of goals conceded DOES highlight where our problem lies. Oh, and I've googled "Reina error" and found 3, arguably 4 errors in his entire Liverpool career. This is in 212 league games + however many cup games he has played.

Of course our defence isn't perfect; we're in the conference FFS. But the stats show that the biggest problem appears to be scoring goals. Especially away from home. This needs to be addressed with more urgency than the 3rd best defence in the league (according to the reliable stats).

[Breedon]

A simple quick search on "Pepe Reina mistakes" brings up these beautys:

Can I have a detailed list of these high profile errors please, beach ball not included.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYUcdHAMp3g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3YX2hLZ ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TMBeax7 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fsfT5jm ... re=related (west ham goals 2 and 3)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ2igqW8AOc (chelsea's first goal)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrNafgTYYZQ (ignore the biased title of the video and ask yourself, what on earth was he thinking?)

Add this to his two monumental cock ups in this seasons Europa league, and another comedy goal in the league this season, I think this illustrates my point to an extent.

As you knew when you arrogantly made your post, I have intention spending the entire night doing research and tracking down specific games, dates and times from the last 5 years to cover his entire back catalogue, but you get my jist. Call that a win if you want.

[Breedon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikn7WHUCiPc (another good vid capturing some of the above plus the added bonus of one of those Europa League howlers I referenced)

[DarloOnTheUp]

OK, there are quite a few there errors there by Reina!

Still, this point still stands:

Of course our defence isn't perfect; we're in the conference FFS. But the stats show that the biggest problem appears to be scoring goals. Especially away from home. This needs to be addressed with more urgency than the 3rd best defence in the league (according to the reliable stats).

[Breedon]

Yeah I agree with that to be honest, but rather than the mass overhaul that Quakerz suggested we needed upfront I'd say 2 out and 1 in would be satisfactory, aslong as the 1 in is a proven goalscorer at this level. We just need to sharpen up a lot in terms of concentration rather than change personel in defence. But they really do need to get on the ball because a lot of the shortfall between where we finish and the playoff places can be attributed to conceeding goals that quite frankly our players are better than.

I'm just calling for a bit of equality rather than certain people bluntly stating "the defence has been flawless all season and our attacking play is rubbish" based on nothing but numbers. Football is not that black and white, as I'm sure everyone knows.