Name your 'initial' England Squad

[Spyman]

We only disagree on Upson/Lescott and Foster/Robinson, none of whom would play anyway.

I reckon WW11 was after a bite, so here goes.
FFS he's got Turner in there instead of Ferdinand, Turner's not impressing at Sunderland at the moment

Must have been a kick in the teeth for Robinson last night - he was in Capello's original 3 behind Green and James. Green gets suspended, James isn't fit, so does Robinson get a go? Does he fuck, Capello calls Foster up instead.

Most of the squad picks itself now I think - players like J Cole and Hargreaves, if they can remain fit between now and June, should walk in to the squad based on the quality and experience they have. The likes of Downing, Cattermole, and to a lesser extent Carrick, are second rate compared to these guys.

Milner is the outsider at the moment - he's not as fashionable as Wright-Phillips but offers a lot more. He's versatile, strong, and can run at players. I don't understand why Wright-{hillips gets in the squad - he's proved average almost every time he's played. Getting the occaisional goal seems to just about get him into each squad.

[comeondarlo]

'He's either on the wind up or a total barmpot.'

Bit of both I suspect

[DARL]

Goalkeepers

Hart
Green
Kirkland

Defenders

A Cole
Bridge
Johnson
Richards
Upson
Terry
Ferdinand

Midfield
Walcott
Lennon
Lampard
Gerrard
Beckham
Barry
Wright-Phillips
Jenas

Forwards

Rooney
Defoe
Owen
Bent
Agbondlahor

[connor2k7ovdarlo]

Goalkeepers
Robert Green (Big shout for 1st choice)
Chris Kirkland (Massively under-rated)
Ben Foster (Maybe doesn't play enough but he'd be 3rd choice chances of him playing would be slim)

Defenders
Wes Brown (Experience, and can play right back or centre half, good against a team with an all out left winger because the next isn't the best defensively)
Glenn Johnson (Threat going forward, resonably poor defensively)

John Terry (Leader, apart from that I'd call him average)
Rio Ferdinand (England's best natural centre half, needs injuries behind him or he'll have a nightmare World Cup)
Matthew Upson (Good for cover and I'd imagine he'd be a good person to have in the dressing room)
Phil Jagielka (I believe he can play anywhere in the back four or even as a holding mid, but only of fit)

Ashley Cole (Although I really hate him, he is good)
Stephen Warnock (Wayne Bridge hasn't been brilliant this season,picked just ahead of Leighton Baines)

Midfield
David Beckham (Starting 11 as well, nobody else has shown me they are good enough for the right wing people may say Walcott but he has had one good game IMO)
Theo Walcott (Pace to bring on when the other team are fooked)

Owen Hargreaves (If fit he is the best CENTRAL MIDFIELDER* we have to offer, versatile as well)
Frank Lampard (Good in attack)
Michael Carrick (Picks passes for fun)
Steven Gerrard (Can be a match winner)

Joe Cole (If he's fit, he is a class act)
James Milner (Can play on either wing and he can cross)

Strikers
Wayne Rooney (First name on the team sheet, works allover the pitch and has the end product)
Carlton Cole (Can score and is a plank to aim for)
Jermaine Defoe (Goalscoring can't be ignored)
Emile Heskey (The Big Fella is a must, holds the ball up well)


If any of the above were injured/unfit and couldn't make it I'd call upon (dependent on position left behind by outfield players

Goalkeepers
Paul Robinson
Joe Hart

Defenders
Gary Cahill
Michael Turner
Leighton Baines
Wayne Bridge
Gary Neville

Midfield
Gareth Barry (Sorry hard choice to leave him out)
Jermaine Jenas
Aaron Lennon
Shaun Wright-Phillips
Lee Cattermole

Attack
Darren Bent
Gabriel Agbonglahor
Michael Owen (yes him!)
Peter Crouch

*Lampard and Gerrard only seem to add to our attack, Hargreaves adds to attack and defence

[Darlo Cockney]

Jenas !!!!

Spurs fans wouldn't even have him in their 1st team.

DC

[loan_star]

Taking players such as Wes Brown & Jermain Jenas just sends out the message that we arent good enough to win the competition. Them two will never be good enough for that level, especially Brown who looks average even at Premier league level.

[walshys_wingman_11]

Taking players such as Wes Brown & Jermain Jenas just sends out the message that we arent good enough to win the competition. Them two will never be good enough for that level, especially Brown who looks average even at Premier league level.

They would not even be in contention if it were not for the clubs they play for. I remember a few years ago when Heskey was in the England squad while at Liverpool. He moved to Brum for about £7 million and as a result he disapeared from the Eng squad. He then went to Wigan and was outstanding and a focal point in their relegation survival and was still out of the national squad.Now he gets back in the squad because he is at Villa despite the fact he has hardly started a game for them this season.
Playing Gerrard or Joe Cole on the left for England is another example of accomodating players from high profile clubs because neither player can use their left foot and dont play there for their clubs.

[Santino]

Or it's a case of England having no high quality proper left winger (don't anyone dare say Downing!), so they have to stick somebody out of position there. Joe Cole plays pretty well there for England anyway.

[walshys_wingman_11]

Or it's a case of England having no high quality proper left winger (don't anyone dare say Downing!), so they have to stick somebody out of position there. Joe Cole plays pretty well there for England anyway.

A proper left sided player would be better, if that was Downing, Adam Johnson so be it.Or maybe play a left footed player like Ash Cole there and play a left footed Bridge at left back .
We havent got a high quality keeper may be we should put .......

[comeondarlo]

I totally agree with your first post but dis-agree with your second.

Downing isn't good enough and the likes of Johnson aren't ready yet.
Joe Cole does a job for England, he's proven and should be in the squad.


Edit
That's aimed at walshy btw

[walshys_wingman_11]

I totally agree with your first post but dis-agree with your second.

Downing isn't good enough and the likes of Johnson aren't ready yet.
Joe Cole does a job for England, he's proven and should be in the squad.


Edit
That's aimed at walshy btw

If he producing it at club level then fair enough he should be considered for the position he plays at club level. The same applies to everyone. I get a feeling that players have to be played, regardless of position or the manager is giving the press bullets to fire if it goes wrong and that has always been the case when picking the national team in the 35 years or so that I have been watching England.

[comeondarlo]

I totally agree with your first post but dis-agree with your second.

Downing isn't good enough and the likes of Johnson aren't ready yet.
Joe Cole does a job for England, he's proven and should be in the squad.


Edit
That's aimed at walshy btw

If he producing it at club level then fair enough he should be considered for the position he plays at club level. The same applies to everyone. I get a feeling that players have to be played, regardless of position or the manager is giving the press bullets to fire if it goes wrong and that has always been the case when picking the national team in the 35 years or so that I have been watching England.

As I say I do agree with a lot of what you say but Capello runs a tight ship.
Joe Cole will have to prove himself, Heskey will have to be playing regularly at club level.

TBH I dont rate Downing, an awful signing by O'Neill for so many reasons. Johnson's got a lot of promise but is not in the same league yet. I don't rate Bridge, so Ashley has to stay at the back.

Basically I trust in Capello

[Hawkeye]

Taking players such as Wes Brown & Jermain Jenas just sends out the message that we arent good enough to win the competition. Them two will never be good enough for that level, especially Brown who looks average even at Premier league level.

Playing Gerrard or Joe Cole on the left for England is another example of accomodating players from high profile clubs because neither player can use their left foot and dont play there for their clubs.

I take it you didn't watch any of the last World Cup then? Joe Cole played at left wing and was our best player. There is no way Downing would do as good a job.

[Breedon]

Taking players such as Wes Brown & Jermain Jenas just sends out the message that we arent good enough to win the competition. Them two will never be good enough for that level, especially Brown who looks average even at Premier league level.

Playing Gerrard or Joe Cole on the left for England is another example of accomodating players from high profile clubs because neither player can use their left foot and dont play there for their clubs.

I take it you didn't watch any of the last World Cup then? Joe Cole played at left wing and was our best player. There is no way Downing would do as good a job.

I agree the notion of Downing over Joe Cole is cringeworthy, but at the same time the last World Cup means absolutely fuck all. Cole is injury prone as fuck and unless he stays fit for the entirity of the rest of this season (and I mean the entire season, not odd 2 weeks' out) he cant be selected as its a waste of a squad position in my opinion. Seriously injury prone should be treat as already injured. Milner deserves to be starting on the left on current form, but a lot can change between now and South Africa...

[Hawkeye]

I agree the notion of Downing over Joe Cole is cringeworthy, but at the same time the last World Cup means absolutely f*** all. Cole is injury prone as f*** and unless he stays fit for the entirity of the rest of this season (and I mean the entire season, not odd 2 weeks' out) he cant be selected as its a waste of a squad position in my opinion. Seriously injury prone should be treat as already injured. Milner deserves to be starting on the left on current form, but a lot can change between now and South Africa...

Fair point, but I think the assumption is that we're talking about an ideal world scenario here, ie. if everybody stays fit, who would you take? There's a fair chance Cole won't be fit, in which case we'd need somebody else, but the point is that walshy's argument about players at high profile clubs is a weak one.

[Darlo Cockney]

So the answer is that you play Lennon - an authentic winger, who can either beat the full back, or take the ball down to the line and then cross it.
Can put the ball in the net as well on occasion.

DC

[Darlo Cockney]

So the answer is that you play Lennon - an authentic winger, who can either beat the full back, or take the ball down to the line and then cross it.
Can put the ball in the net as well on occasion.

DC

[Darlo Cockney]

Sorry - Double post.

DC

[Breedon]

I'd be using Lennon on the right and Milner on the left at the moment. On the one wing you have searing pace and energy, on the other you have intelligent distribution, terrific crossing and strength.

Fair play Hawkeye, you're right. Regardless of who someone plays for, the best players should be in the squad, and if the majority of those players come from the big clubs, so be it. We certainly shouldn't be choosing the likes of Bullard, Downing and Cattermole just because they may be in form for lesser sides, the bottom line is there are far better players in better form in those positions, they wouldn't even get a game for England B in my opinion.

[Darlo-Branksome-Tid]

Goal Keepers

Ben Foster
Robert Green
David James

Defenders

Glen Johnson
Wes Brown

John Terry
Rio Ferdinand
Michael Turner
Matthew Upson

Ashley Cole
Wayne Bridge

Midfielders

Aaron Lennon
David Beckham

Steven Gerrard
Frank Lampard
Gareth Barry
Lee Catermole

Joe Cole
James Milner


Strikers

Wayne Rooney
Peter Crouch
Jermaine Defoe
Darren Bent

[Hawkeye]

Goal Keepers

Ben Foster
Robert Green
David James

Defenders

Glen Johnson
Wes Brown

John Terry
Rio Ferdinand
Michael Turner
Matthew Upson

Ashley Cole
Wayne Bridge

Midfielders

Aaron Lennon
David Beckham

Steven Gerrard
Frank Lampard
Gareth Barry
Lee Catermole

Joe Cole
James Milner


Strikers

Wayne Rooney
Peter Crouch
Jermaine Defoe
Darren Bent

You're not a Sunderland fan by any chance?

[Breedon]

Will everyone sod off saying Lee Catermole! A hand full of decent performances for Sunderland dont make him England quality! Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick, Hargreaves, Barry, Joe Cole and Beckham are all far better Central Midfielders than Catermole, and they're just the obvious ones. Catermole has always been shite, he has improved to half decent. Stop getting carried away!

[walshys_wingman_11]

Will everyone sod off saying Lee Catermole! A hand full of decent performances for Sunderland dont make him England quality! Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick, Hargreaves, Barry, Joe Cole and Beckham are all far better Central Midfielders than Catermole, and they're just the obvious ones. Catermole has always been sh**e, he has improved to half decent. Stop getting carried away!

mr B Hargreaves has not shown any form in the last 10 months, Carrick came on for his 2nd game of the season against SAFC so he is hardly showing the form when stuck on the bench(might have played a couple more since the England game though). Joe Cole is another who has not proved this season he was in form to play for his national side through being injured although he is now fit that might change. Cattermole has been a major reason why SAFC have had a decent start to the season and therefore was in form up to his injury.
There is a good piece in the sun today maybe you should read it. It mentions how alarmed the writer is that England's number 5 was easily knocked aside by Torres last weekend and it goes on to mention that the England squad is virtually the same as it was in 2006.

[Breedon]

Will everyone sod off saying Lee Catermole! A hand full of decent performances for Sunderland dont make him England quality! Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick, Hargreaves, Barry, Joe Cole and Beckham are all far better Central Midfielders than Catermole, and they're just the obvious ones. Catermole has always been sh**e, he has improved to half decent. Stop getting carried away!

mr B Hargreaves has not shown any form in the last 10 months, Carrick came on for his 2nd game of the season against SAFC so he is hardly showing the form when stuck on the bench(might have played a couple more since the England game though). Joe Cole is another who has not proved this season he was in form to play for his national side through being injured although he is now fit that might change. Cattermole has been a major reason why SAFC have had a decent start to the season and therefore was in form up to his injury.
There is a good piece in the sun today maybe you should read it. It mentions how alarmed the writer is that England's number 5 was easily knocked aside by Torres last weekend and it goes on to mention that the England squad is virtually the same as it was in 2006.

I was working on the above presumption that when next summer comes around all players are fit and playing their usual game. Under no circumstances can you say that Lee Catermole is a better central midfielder than any of those listed. If the England squad was to be announced right now, he still wouldn't make it, but given that all of those in the pecking order ahead of a considerably lower level player such as Catermole have 2/3's of a season before the World Cup becomes an issue, I dont see how anyone in their right mind can even consider him being one of our best 4 central midfielders for the next world cup.

I'll read that article, meanwhile why dont you check out the WC Qualification group that the same squad as 2006 cruised to qualification in before you start using that as a negative...if it aint broke, dont fix it, and the form of the England team in qualification...it aint broke!

[walshys_wingman_11]

Maybe good performances against the rest of the premier league teams to date has influenced my decision on the now injured Cattermole. I would also put Sidwell in the same bracket as Cattermole.A good onform Englishman who will be over looked for the old guard. Lets be honest here mr B, Michael Owen will have a better chance of going to the World cup than Turner, Cattermole, Sidwell and Bent and as four your best 4 central midfielders, one of them will end up playing on the left to accomodate him. As for all your players being fit and on their usual game,how could Carrick and Hargreaves be doing so when one will be on the bench, unless Fletcher, Scholes and Park will be dropped to accomodate them every week? Are you saying an England should be picked to represent his country when he is not even an automatic starter for his club ?

[Breedon]

Yes, I am, and stop talking nonsense Walshy, Park and Fletcher aren't even in the same stratosphere as a fit Carrick or Hargreaves and well you know it. Indeed it is Park and Fletcher who are oftem accomidated on the wings for Scholes and one of Carrick or Hargreaves in the middle when all of Man U's midfield is available. The best players should be going to the world cup, are you seriously saying to me that Catermole would get his game at Man U? He wouldn't even make the bench for their youth team. Ofcourse players who play for the less star studied sides in the premiership will play more often than some of the big names who are competing with world class players for a place, but at the end of the day I'd much rather have a quality player coming off a 25 game season than a mediocre one coming off a 38 game season as backup. Irrelevant argument anyway, Catermole wont go because he's not good enough. End of discussion.

[loan_star]

FFS Wes Brown is GASH!!! Who in their right mind would have that lump of lard anywhere near the plane to South Africa, never mind in the squad.

[walshys_wingman_11]

Yes, I am, and stop talking nonsense Walshy, Park and Fletcher aren't even in the same stratosphere as a fit Carrick or Hargreaves and well you know it. Indeed it is Park and Fletcher who are oftem accomidated on the wings for Scholes and one of Carrick or Hargreaves in the middle when all of Man U's midfield is available. The best players should be going to the world cup, are you seriously saying to me that Catermole would get his game at Man U? He wouldn't even make the bench for their youth team. Ofcourse players who play for the less star studied sides in the premiership will play more often than some of the big names who are competing with world class players for a place, but at the end of the day I'd much rather have a quality player coming off a 25 game season than a mediocre one coming off a 38 game season as backup. Irrelevant argument anyway, Catermole wont go because he's not good enough. End of discussion.

Indeed it is Park and Fletcher who are oftem accomidated on the wings for Scholes and one of Carrick or Hargreaves in the middle when all of Man U's midfield is available.
Yep that sums you up mr b, according to you our best players cant be judged as autromatic for their club. One of Hargreaves or Carrick.... I am sorry but if we intend to be world beaters we need to be picking players who are automatic selections if fit for their club.
Catermole wont go because he's not good enough. End of discussion.[/quote] No Cattermole wont go if fit because he decided to play foe SAFC rather than Liverpool.

[walshys_wingman_11]

FFS Wes Brown is GASH!!! Who in their right mind would have that lump of lard anywhere near the plane to South Africa, never mind in the squad.

Plenty would because he warms the manure bench...rather than performing well for a bottom 15 of the premiership.

[StevieMardenboro]

If Hargreaves is not fit my worry would be that there is no good central midfielder who is good at breaking up the play. Lampard, Barry and Gerrard don't do it although all are class players and I have never seen Carrick look convincing for England.

Can't really think of an obvious alternative. Cattermole is a bit rough round the edges and probably isn't international class.

As for Wes Brown he is cack and will sink like a stone if he ever leaves Man U.