Fans engagement work stream

[Markodarlo]

Supporter Engagement Work stream Meeting - Blackwell Meadows - 2/7/13.

Those present:

Dave Mills, Ian Wilkinson, Paul Colman, Mark Adams, Andrew Simpson, Dave Collinge, Mark Fawcett, Steve Carter, Northern League Champions Trophy.

Tonight a group of fans meet with members of the CIC board to bring together the "Supporters Engagement" Work stream. One fan was impressed enough with what he heard to change his mind and buy a season ticket.

The idea of this group is for the fans to get more understanding of the business aspects of the running of the club.

With the football club being a fans owned club it is important that the fans are as involved as much as circumstances allow from putting up posters to involvement in the work streams.

The work stream would like to understand frustrations, advise of any concerns or issues fans may have in getting involved in any capacity in the running of the football club, be it day to day or on the odd day as and when time permits.

As part of this process, the first step of demonstrating how this will work is going to be a chance for the Work stream to sit with Martin Jesper and raise any concerns that fans have and report these answers back to the fans.
In the light of this arrangement, we would like to offer anyone the opportunity to forward any questions they would like raising to the email address below.

All who attended felt that this group has a great opportunity to bring fans, old and new closer to the club and create a transparency for all. A number of issues were discussed about the clubs' strategy, what it means to be part of fan-owned club and how we can all communicate better.

" What a fantastic meeting tonight, vibrant, positive feedback" quoted from the clubs official Facebook page.

If you have questions to put to Martin or any issues you would like answers to from the CIC, or even suggestion on other matters, or would like to get involved, please send an email to:

madams26@hotmail.co.uk

[love it!]

Are minutes of the meeting taken? If so could they published for general view?

[princes town]

Are minutes of the meeting taken? If so could they published for general view?

It is certainly a good idea and will probably become a reglar occurrence when the new web-site is up and running. From what I recollect, the chat was mainly about the interaction between board and fans. What can the board do for us but what can we do for the board.

The main themes were:

* how to improve communications on key issues like structure of club, ground development and finance within the parameters of confidentiality restrictions. Is it best to have more communications but risk nondescript information or just a few hard pieces of information. How can the club communicate in a way that demonstrates sufficient priority is given to the objective of getting back to darlo?

* assess engagement and communication with volunteers to ensure they feel valued. There is a danger in any organisation of volunteer fatigue. Can we develop an organogram of volunteers - more people with smaller jobs where necessary? Support comes in many forms and people have different capacity to help

* what does it mean to be part of a CIC (or fan based club). What should be the aims of a fan based club? How can we encourage bigger CIC membership? and ensure the certificate is not just a worthless piece of paper. Understanding the clear distinction between our 'fan-owned' club (signposting strategic direction but not operational) and the fan managed club (where responsibility is operational). The governance and strategy workstream will try and define the various roles of stakeholders and rules within which they work.

* acknowledgement of the fantastic efforts of volunteers and the fundraising group in attracting fans to club events. Also the efforts of the first team squad in engaging fans on and off the pitch.

that was pretty much it.....

[wizardofos]

Understanding the clear distinction between our 'fan-owned' club (signposting strategic direction but not operational) and the fan managed club (where responsibility is operational).

This is a very interesting and carefully worded sentence.
I would certainly like to understand this distinction more clearly.
My impression is that in a fan owned club, the fans (owners) will have the opportunity to select those that manage it from time to time. Does your comment suggest anything different to that?

If you can answer this point via this thread, please do, or direct me to where I can find the answer.

[super_les_mcjannet]

Understanding the clear distinction between our 'fan-owned' club (signposting strategic direction but not operational) and the fan managed club (where responsibility is operational).

This is a very interesting and carefully worded sentence.
I would certainly like to understand this distinction more clearly.
My impression is that in a fan owned club, the fans (owners) will have the opportunity to select those that manage it from time to time. Does your comment suggest anything different to that?

If you can answer this point via this thread, please do, or direct me to where I can find the answer.

I assume in time this will happen, at the moment I guess it's stabilise the club and make sure that the off-field catches up and keeps up with the on-field.

If someone is passionate about ensuring this happens asap, I would suggest they get involved with the CIC. I would assume most people who want to be involved/voted onto the CIC board etc are probably playing a part in the club/CIC already.

[Ingleby]

So the ongoing legal expenses were not on the agenda and the apparent conflict of interests. I actually thought this was one of the main reasons this meeting was called. Obviously not.

[super_les_mcjannet]

So the ongoing legal expenses were not on the agenda and the apparent conflict of interests. I actually thought this was one of the main reasons this meeting was called. Obviously not.

I guess those that went must not of brought it up, could be worth anyone with issues on those matters to get themselves involved.

[wizardofos]

So the ongoing legal expenses were not on the agenda and the apparent conflict of interests. I actually thought this was one of the main reasons this meeting was called. Obviously not.

I guess those that went must not of brought it up, could be worth anyone with issues on those matters to get themselves involved.

Les,

I respect your posts wholeheartedly, but this is not how a democracy works.
Simply suggesting that anyone who has a challenge or question should try to fix it themselves is an over-simplification.
We will have an election, eventually, for CIC Directors, because I'm sure that the constitution (when there is one) for such an organisation will stipulate that this should be the case.
In the meantime, candidates both existing and prospective, should be prepared for cross examination by voters.

[Ingleby]

Maybe I'm wrong but that seemed one of the main issues highlighted before the meeting. I think Robbie Painter may have had a similar enquiry relating to this he may have put to them, I could be wrong.

Unfortunately I couldn't attend this meeting as it was only announced 2 days before it happened.

[lo36789]

Unfortunately I couldn't attend this meeting as it was only announced 2 days before it happened.

You are whiney little mare aren't you.

Bloody hell, your mates down the pub probably tread carefully when insulting you through fear of not being invited to your bouncy castle birthday party!

[charlie]

Maybe I'm wrong but that seemed one of the main issues highlighted before the meeting. I think Robbie Painter may have had a similar enquiry relating to this he may have put to them, I could be wrong.

Unfortunately I couldn't attend this meeting as it was only announced 2 days before it happened.

Go along to the next one then, please remember its volunteers who are also getting the news out there - they do their best

[super_les_mcjannet]

So the ongoing legal expenses were not on the agenda and the apparent conflict of interests. I actually thought this was one of the main reasons this meeting was called. Obviously not.

I guess those that went must not of brought it up, could be worth anyone with issues on those matters to get themselves involved.

Les,

I respect your posts wholeheartedly, but this is not how a democracy works.
Simply suggesting that anyone who has a challenge or question should try to fix it themselves is an over-simplification.
We will have an election, eventually, for CIC Directors, because I'm sure that the constitution (when there is one) for such an organisation will stipulate that this should be the case.
In the meantime, candidates both existing and prospective, should be prepared for cross examination by voters.

Didn't claim they had to fix it themselves but at the moment if I had a major issue I would get along to a meeting or two and discuss it with members of the CIC board rather than just moan on a DFC forum.

I do agree a constitution needs to be in place and some election process set out. However if I was a board member and only 5 months ago had to resolve the possibility of admin and still have 100k+ debts also halfway through a process of gaining the club a stadium back in Darlo, I wouldn't think a voting process was top of my list of jobs.

The governance work stream will pick this up although not sure how many have put themselves forward for this stream. The fan engagement workstream may decide to have a monthly question/answer session with the CIC Board however as the guys involved have only had one meeting I would give them some leeway as to why your points, which I am sure have been sent to the email address on this thread have not been answered as yet.

[super_les_mcjannet]

So the ongoing legal expenses were not on the agenda and the apparent conflict of interests. I actually thought this was one of the main reasons this meeting was called. Obviously not.

Send your questions to the email address on the thread.

I did hear we were moving away from Muckles for that very question, although not sure if this happend or is going to happen.

[princes town]

Understanding the clear distinction between our 'fan-owned' club (signposting strategic direction but not operational) and the fan managed club (where responsibility is operational).

This is a very interesting and carefully worded sentence.
I would certainly like to understand this distinction more clearly.
My impression is that in a fan owned club, the fans (owners) will have the opportunity to select those that manage it from time to time. Does your comment suggest anything different to that?

If you can answer this point via this thread, please do, or direct me to where I can find the answer.

Frankly, the governance structure is a blank canvas, hence an emerging governance and strategy workstream. I would use Wimbledon as a model although the Dons Trust has a 72% stake compared to the 52% CIC stake. Initially the Dons Trust had a hands on executive involvement in the club but this caused rank confusion. In the end they adopted a strategic and oversight role (SOR) of their management company, our mgmt co is dfc1883. Agreeing strategic resolutions and nominating reps will always imply some form of voting structure longer term but these constitutional processes need to be approved by all fans and will inevitably take time. At the moment we have a sensible technocratic governance structure to see our fledgling company through these difficult times but the democratic structure will ultimately emerge. The strategy and governance workstream is the catalyst to get things moving.

On the matter of legal costs, this was not specifically mentioned but there was discussion of financial governance overall. No reason why it can't be addressed at future workstreams. The engagement stream was largely brainstorming but it produced some useful actions.

[wizardofos]

"rather than just moan on a DFC forum------------which I am sure have been sent to the email address on this thread have not been answered as yet"

Les,

This forum is a perfectly legitimate place to air any concerns, as you well know. Wouldn't it be convenient if those who ran any organisation were able to keep any questions about their governance private, or under control in some way.
At the moment I am only able to communicate my views in this way. I have offered my help but have yet to hear if it is welcome or required.
My only concern in this matter (as always) is the medium and long term future of DFC.

[charlie]

If you want to help please just turn up at the next meeting, don't wait for a response

[coles]

As Charlie said please do not wait for an invite pop along and see what you can bring to the workstream. Everyone has different skill-sets and everyone has their own opinion on how the club should move forward. So please this is your club and these workstreams are the way to get your opinion across.

[Jazz Maverick]

Same old shite from the same two pathetic muck stirrers wizardofos and Ingleby. People like super les, charlie etc shouldnt waste valuable seconds of their lives responding to them.

It wont matter;

-how transparent the restructuring process of the club is
-how often the club/CIC involves fans through meetings and consultations
-how easy it is to get involved and get your ideas/concerns across to people that can actually address them
-how open the club/CIC is to involving fans in its running/mamagement

you'll still have people like these two who just cant be arsed, expect everything they want to hear to be spoon fed to them, and who will never do anything more constructive than post inflammatory open ended statements on an unofficial message board and hope someone else gets the answer for them.

[wizardofos]

Good old Jazz.
Hope they have bouncers on the door wherever you drink.

For the record, I've done my fair share to ensure the continuity of football in Darlington.
I will offer my help when we have democratically elected officials.
In the meantime, I live in hope that you will come up with some ideas of you own one day, rather than amuse yourself in the way you usually do.

[Jazz Maverick]

Good old Jazz.
Hope they have bouncers on the door wherever you drink.

For the record, I've done my fair share to ensure the continuity of football in Darlington.
I will offer my help when we have democratically elected officials.
In the meantime, I live in hope that you will come up with some ideas of you own one day, rather than amuse yourself in the way you usually do.

Don't worry about me, I have and will continue to offer my help any way I can from my location.

You won't offer your help, ever. You'll continue to make demands for information (via the completely wrong channel - an unofficial message board), using supposed flaws in the 'democracy' of the system as a smokescreen with which to hide the fact you cant be bothered doing anything but whine and make up conspiracy theories.

People like you have been doing shite like this on here since the club took its new direction, fuck knows what you get out of it but its pathetic to watch.

[charlie]

Infighting gets us nowhere, at the end of the day if you can help then do so, if you can't then that's fine too, this is a volunteer run club, we all have to do our bit. We can't wait to be told every step of the way if we want to help then its up to us to get off our butts and help. Please though when complaining , your actually complaining about your fellow supporters who are doing their best. If you can do better then do so. Nothing is perfect yet and we don't have a paid team getting the news out there, it's your fellow supporters who also work, also have families.
I'm not trying to guilt anyone into volunteering, not everyone can, but we can all do our bit, including going to the matches etc etc
Just stop the infighting, it's damaging, if you want answers seek them out, if you want to know what you can do, find out just quit arguing, it's getting beyond pathetic

[wizardofos]

Good old Jazz.
Hope they have bouncers on the door wherever you drink.

For the record, I've done my fair share to ensure the continuity of football in Darlington.
I will offer my help when we have democratically elected officials.
In the meantime, I live in hope that you will come up with some ideas of you own one day, rather than amuse yourself in the way you usually do.

Don't worry about me, I have and will continue to offer my help any way I can from my location.

You won't offer your help, ever. You'll continue to make demands for information (via the completely wrong channel - an unofficial message board), using supposed flaws in the 'democracy' of the system as a smokescreen with which to hide the fact you cant be bothered doing anything but whine and make up conspiracy theories.

People like you have been doing shite like this on here since the club took its new direction, fuck knows what you get out of it but its pathetic to watch.

With the greatest respect Jazz, I must disagree with you on two counts:

I think an election for officials is an urgent matter. This is what we fought for - the fans ability to select or remove the people running the club. If the same people are elected then so be it.

I think that this message board is one route to express that (and other) opinions, and prompt thought amongst a wider circle of interested parties.

I hope you can accept our difference of opinion here.

[Mrs_Money_Penny]

If you really think an election is that urgent why not contact the official channels to get your answer as you can express and receive opinions on here.You could always post the reply to your answer when received

[wizardofos]

No offence meant to all the people who are working hard.
I will accept your suggestion and email my questions, then post the questions and answers here.
I have made attempts to enter into a telephone dialogue but a promised return of call didn't happen.

[charlie]

Email is probably the best form of dialogue to be honest , what with commitments elsewhere.

[Markodarlo]

Hi all,

The Q&a session mentioned in the OP is now arranged.

I would be grateful if anyone who wants answers to questions could email them before 6.00pm tonight and I will get as many answers as I can on the board tonight / tomorrow evening.

Email address for any questions:

madams26@hotmail.co.uk

Thanks,

Mark.

[DarloD]

Thanks for that

[Darlospike]

Hi all,

The Q&a session mentioned in the OP is now arranged.

I would be grateful if anyone who wants answers to questions could email them before 6.00pm tonight and I will get as many answers as I can on the board tonight / tomorrow evening.

Email address for any questions:

madams26@hotmail.co.uk

Thanks,

Mark.

Will our new stadium have "heskeylators"?

[Allan Quatermain]

Good old Jazz.
Hope they have bouncers on the door wherever you drink.

For the record, I've done my fair share to ensure the continuity of football in Darlington.
I will offer my help when we have democratically elected officials.
In the meantime, I live in hope that you will come up with some ideas of you own one day, rather than amuse yourself in the way you usually do.

You won't offer your help, ever...
A smokescreen with which to hide the fact you cant be bothered doing anything...

Those 2 sentences alone suggest you have drawn your opinions of wizardofos from his time on this message board and that you actually have no idea what he has already done for this club over a considerable number of years.

[AnthonyP]

Those 2 sentences alone suggest you have drawn your opinions of wizardofos from his time on this message board and that you actually have no idea what he has already done for this club over a considerable number of years.

Agreed Tony. wizardofos has done plenty in the past to facilitate and progress football in Darlington, and he may, just may, have a perfectly valid point - ok, I won't sit on the fence, he does.

Fwiw an election is required, regardless of what point the new ground process is at. Candidates will need to be heard, and I believe there are enough with the riqht business experiences and loyalties to DFC. I personally don't believe this will be forthcoming as an option at all, which is a shame as, regardless of all the hard work by the fans off the pitch, it will be one foot forward on the pitch, and two back off it.