Enke dies in train accident
Re: Enke dies in train accident
Now having slowly become a back seat supporter who prefers to now just read the board rather than post, this topic alone has prompted me to re-register my details with uncovered, and offer my opinion on a subject which is saddening to say the least.
Bushead, to say suicide is a cowards way out, is your opinion and i will fully respect you are holding your stance, but i will say straight i do find it ill conceived and not one i would ever be able to agree with, or possibly understand. Mental illnesses are just as rampant in this life as other diseases such as cancer, parkinsons etc... and are just as worrying as those 2 mentioned. We all hold a dark corner in our mind, and for some that dark corner is sometimes bigger than what it is for others.
Enke suffered a tragedy which unfortunately slowly consumed him, i have seen that happen to a few people i know, some of whom are around, some who ain't, but watching people slowly slip into being a shadow of their former selves, is not a cowards way out. He sought help, but just like when chemotherapy sometimes doesn't eradicate cancer, the counselling didn't eradicate his personal demons, and mental illness claimed another tragic victim.
I say RIP Enke, a sorry tale of a broken man.
Dn1
Bushead, to say suicide is a cowards way out, is your opinion and i will fully respect you are holding your stance, but i will say straight i do find it ill conceived and not one i would ever be able to agree with, or possibly understand. Mental illnesses are just as rampant in this life as other diseases such as cancer, parkinsons etc... and are just as worrying as those 2 mentioned. We all hold a dark corner in our mind, and for some that dark corner is sometimes bigger than what it is for others.
Enke suffered a tragedy which unfortunately slowly consumed him, i have seen that happen to a few people i know, some of whom are around, some who ain't, but watching people slowly slip into being a shadow of their former selves, is not a cowards way out. He sought help, but just like when chemotherapy sometimes doesn't eradicate cancer, the counselling didn't eradicate his personal demons, and mental illness claimed another tragic victim.
I say RIP Enke, a sorry tale of a broken man.
Dn1
"Paris and the fall. The last months of the year and the end of the milenium. The city hold many memories for me...of cafes, of music, of love....and of death...."
Re: Enke dies in train accident
Totally agreed Hilly!Hilly wrote:Is a person who dies of cancer a coward? No. Then why should a person who takes their own life due to depression be a coward?
The two are synonymous.
Dn1
"Paris and the fall. The last months of the year and the end of the milenium. The city hold many memories for me...of cafes, of music, of love....and of death...."
Re: Enke dies in train accident
According to last night's documentary about him on DSF (German Sport Television) Enke had been recieving treatment for depression for 7 years.
Enke's wife and his personal psychiatrist held a press conference at which she said she was constantly trying to help him, to build up his esteem, and the psyciatrist said they were in the process of arranging in-patient treatment for him until Enke said in the last few days that he had felt better (possibly after deciding to commit suicide).
All of the notables of Germany team have been interviewed (Loew, Bierhoff, Ballack) along with Beckenbauer and the president of Hannover (whose name I can't remember) and they all said it is unfathomable.
Bavarian Radio today interviewed Sebastian Deisler, a former German international who gave up top flight football at 27, officially due to injury, but who also suffered from depression - he's been sectioned at least twice - and he described depression as a very dark place which nothing can penetrate. He said it didn't matter how well things were going, the slightest thing can trigger a depressive episode, where you fall into such a deep state of despair that you can see only one way out.
Deisler also said it was almost impossible when he tried made a comeback after being secotioned (he was taken from his home or hotel Gazza style, so it was all over the press here - I remember arguing with someone at the time who said Deisler's a millionaire, what's he got to be depressed about) due to the fans taunting him about his mental state.
Enke's wife and his personal psychiatrist held a press conference at which she said she was constantly trying to help him, to build up his esteem, and the psyciatrist said they were in the process of arranging in-patient treatment for him until Enke said in the last few days that he had felt better (possibly after deciding to commit suicide).
All of the notables of Germany team have been interviewed (Loew, Bierhoff, Ballack) along with Beckenbauer and the president of Hannover (whose name I can't remember) and they all said it is unfathomable.
Bavarian Radio today interviewed Sebastian Deisler, a former German international who gave up top flight football at 27, officially due to injury, but who also suffered from depression - he's been sectioned at least twice - and he described depression as a very dark place which nothing can penetrate. He said it didn't matter how well things were going, the slightest thing can trigger a depressive episode, where you fall into such a deep state of despair that you can see only one way out.
Deisler also said it was almost impossible when he tried made a comeback after being secotioned (he was taken from his home or hotel Gazza style, so it was all over the press here - I remember arguing with someone at the time who said Deisler's a millionaire, what's he got to be depressed about) due to the fans taunting him about his mental state.
Re: Enke dies in train accident
Dn1 wrote:Totally agreed Hilly!Hilly wrote:Is a person who dies of cancer a coward? No. Then why should a person who takes their own life due to depression be a coward?
The two are synonymous.
Dn1
RIGHT so having cancer and taking your own life are the same thing ?
people who choose to commit suicide are not the same has people dying of cancer.
because one you pick when too die and the other you have no say in the matter.
yes it is sad that he passed on but bushead does have a point to say that he did take the cowards way out because he did but his wife and his adopted child are now going to have the pain of lossing there husband and father which is the real pain.
Re: Enke dies in train accident
Like others have already said above - you don't seem to understand that depression is an illness.DIRTYDAVE wrote:Dn1 wrote:Totally agreed Hilly!Hilly wrote:Is a person who dies of cancer a coward? No. Then why should a person who takes their own life due to depression be a coward?
The two are synonymous.
Dn1
RIGHT so having cancer and taking your own life are the same thing ?
people who choose to commit suicide are not the same has people dying of cancer.
because one you pick when too die and the other you have no say in the matter.
yes it is sad that he passed on but bushead does have a point to say that he did take the cowards way out because he did but his wife and his adopted child are now going to have the pain of lossing there husband and father which is the real pain.
Do you think that if said person didn't have depression that they would still take the same way out?
Re: Enke dies in train accident
Their are obviously examples of suicide being the 'cowards way out' when someone has done something terrible and can't face the consequences being one but it's certainly not in every case.
That compared to someone with clinical depression are two completely different things and to even mention the word 'coward' when discussing this tragedy is callous to say the least.
That compared to someone with clinical depression are two completely different things and to even mention the word 'coward' when discussing this tragedy is callous to say the least.
Re: Enke dies in train accident
"Their are obviously examples of suicide being the 'cowards way out' when someone has done something terrible and can't face the consequences being one but it's certainly not in every case."
If we look at the history books and people who have commited suicide to escape punishment and persecution, Adolf Hitler, Fred West, Harold Shipman to name but a few, their crimes, which they knew were ill-moraled and satanic, drove them to take their own lives for fear of retribution, in them examples, i agree with PJ.
Mental/Emotional health is just as important as your physical health, i have suffered a personal tragedy where although not directly did someone commit suicide, upon contracting cancer, didn't stick to their medication programme and sadly lost their life 3 years ago, is that the cowards way out? No, that relative of mine had given up hope, and even though we all tried to help them through their difficult time, taking them to therapy etc...it in the end only delayed the inevitable, and i think about this every day.
I take a great deal of interest in psycological issues, as well as other medical conditions which can affect the mental health, and i will be quite frank, upon thinking into this thread a little bit more, my blood has boiled and my teeth are grinding at the thought people could be as harsh as to say things like this about a condition which is medically recognized as a serious issue.
Dn1
If we look at the history books and people who have commited suicide to escape punishment and persecution, Adolf Hitler, Fred West, Harold Shipman to name but a few, their crimes, which they knew were ill-moraled and satanic, drove them to take their own lives for fear of retribution, in them examples, i agree with PJ.
Mental/Emotional health is just as important as your physical health, i have suffered a personal tragedy where although not directly did someone commit suicide, upon contracting cancer, didn't stick to their medication programme and sadly lost their life 3 years ago, is that the cowards way out? No, that relative of mine had given up hope, and even though we all tried to help them through their difficult time, taking them to therapy etc...it in the end only delayed the inevitable, and i think about this every day.
I take a great deal of interest in psycological issues, as well as other medical conditions which can affect the mental health, and i will be quite frank, upon thinking into this thread a little bit more, my blood has boiled and my teeth are grinding at the thought people could be as harsh as to say things like this about a condition which is medically recognized as a serious issue.
Dn1
"Paris and the fall. The last months of the year and the end of the milenium. The city hold many memories for me...of cafes, of music, of love....and of death...."
Re: Enke dies in train accident
PJPoolie wrote:With all due respect depression is a serious illness which clearly you have very little understanding of which in turn makes your 'coward' comments small minded and ignorant…BUSHEAD wrote:
Unless a person is terimanilly ill , suicide in my opinion will always be a cowards way out - regardless of who it is. Life is a gift, not to be thrown away.
Andy your an idiot for saying half , no 3/4 of the things you write.
With all due respect, i couldnt give a toss what you think.
Depression is cureable, cancer isn't.
Think before posting
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Re: Enke dies in train accident
Depression is cureable is it? Is it not more treatable? You do not cure depression you ignorant prick, you treat it with medication and therapy so that the sufferer can try and lead a normal life.BUSHEAD wrote:PJPoolie wrote:With all due respect depression is a serious illness which clearly you have very little understanding of which in turn makes your 'coward' comments small minded and ignorant…BUSHEAD wrote:
Unless a person is terimanilly ill , suicide in my opinion will always be a cowards way out - regardless of who it is. Life is a gift, not to be thrown away.
Andy your an idiot for saying half , no 3/4 of the things you write.
With all due respect, i couldnt give a toss what you think.
Depression is cureable, cancer isn't.
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Re: Enke dies in train accident
Apologies Dr Bushead. Depression is treatable.BUSHEAD wrote:Yes depression is cureable.
"prick".
Re: Enke dies in train accident
Think before posting
- grytters
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Re: Enke dies in train accident
BUSHEAD wrote:
With all due respect, i couldnt give a toss what you think.
Bring Back the Quarters
Re: Enke dies in train accident
Have bloody seen it all now "depression is curable!" you really need to read more into mental health issues Bushead, you'd be quite surprised!
Dn1
Dn1
"Paris and the fall. The last months of the year and the end of the milenium. The city hold many memories for me...of cafes, of music, of love....and of death...."
Re: Enke dies in train accident
I thought depression was one of those things (a bit like cancer) that, in theory, is curable - or can at least receive treatment that works as a cure - and some people come out the other end to lead a normal life, whereas others will initially recover and "get the all clear" so to speak, only to have an increased chance of suffering from it again in the future. Others don't recover at all, which is probably the category that Enke was in.Dn1 wrote:Have bloody seen it all now "depression is curable!" you really need to read more into mental health issues Bushead, you'd be quite surprised!
Dn1
Only a small percentage of people with chronic depression die as a result, but that doesn't mean it's fair to say that those who do are cowards.
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Re: Enke dies in train accident
BUSHEAD wrote:http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&sa ... le&spell=1
Ah that's ok then. If a website says it then it must be true. You'll be telling us god exists next.
Re: Enke dies in train accident
He does , and goes by the name Marco Gabbiadini.
Think before posting
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Re: Enke dies in train accident
I agree with Bushead. He has chosen to end his life and leave his wife and child behind. Of course he's had a shocking time of things but he chose what was best for him, not the people he left behind.
Re: Enke dies in train accident
Okay so would you call him a spineless b******, or someone who had given up hope?Stan_Darlo wrote:I agree with Bushead. He has chosen to end his life and leave his wife and child behind. Of course he's had a shocking time of things but he chose what was best for him, not the people he left behind.
Dn1
"Paris and the fall. The last months of the year and the end of the milenium. The city hold many memories for me...of cafes, of music, of love....and of death...."