3 questions

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exiled fan
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3 questions

Post by exiled fan » Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:49 pm

does anyone believe we can regain league status as a community club and without the help of a rich backer ?
Does anyone believe we may climb one more step (possibly 2) before reaching our optimum level ?
Is anyone else starting to look at the dropping crowd figures and thinking "here we go again with the buckets"?

Quakerz
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Re: 3 questions

Post by Quakerz » Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:06 pm

exiled fan wrote:does anyone believe we can regain league status as a community club and without the help of a rich backer ?
No. I think BSP will be the level that we stagnate at. There is always the possibility of that one off season where everything goes right though, so never say never. Realistically though, we need to enjoy the next few years, because it won't be much fun after that.
Does anyone believe we may climb one more step (possibly 2) before reaching our optimum level ?
Evostik Premier and Conference North is too piss ant a level for a club the size of Darlo to stagnate at. I fully expect we will get back to the Conference Premier whether it takes 3 seasons or 10. It is inevitable.
Is anyone else starting to look at the dropping crowd figures and thinking "here we go again with the buckets"?
The only thing I think is "how predictable, and I can't believe that there are people out there that thought we would see a crowd increase". You only have to look at every club, ever, that has played away from home to see the season by season damage done to crowds. The club disconnects from it's community. We were never going to be any different. It is inevitable that crowds will get lower and lower and lower as time goes on.

I'm not worried about getting the buckets out, we are a part time club without a huge stadium to feed, we should be able to manage - though lower crowds will impact the playing budget for sure.

Get back to Darlo and we'll be playing in front of 2,000+ every week, regardless of the level or how we are doing, until after a season or two the crowds eventually find their level (which will be dependant on our level)
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Dany Krap
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Re: 3 questions

Post by Dany Krap » Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:26 pm

Evostik Premier and Conference North is too piss ant a level for a club the size of Darlo to stagnate at. I fully expect we will get back to the Conference Premier whether it takes 3 seasons or 10. It is inevitable.


we are a part time club without a huge stadium

Make your mind up. A club the size of Darlo but we are part time and don't even have a ground, never mind a huge one.

exiled fan
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Re: 3 questions

Post by exiled fan » Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:34 pm

Dany Krap wrote:Evostik Premier and Conference North is too piss ant a level for a club the size of Darlo to stagnate at. I fully expect we will get back to the Conference Premier whether it takes 3 seasons or 10. It is inevitable.


we are a part time club without a huge stadium

Make your mind up. A club the size of Darlo but we are part time and don't even have a ground, never mind a huge one.
Whist my heart says your wrong, my head agrees. We are a part time club and as a community club I don't see a way of changing this. The problem is if we change this and have a rich owner/chairman we end up as we were, reliant on that person not to pull the plug not sure which is worse here stagnating in non-league or reliant on one person to take us back to where we belong. Any thoughts on this ?

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divas
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Re: 3 questions

Post by divas » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:24 pm

Relax and enjoy the journey, wherever it may take us.

exiled fan
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Re: 3 questions

Post by exiled fan » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:28 pm

divas wrote:Relax and enjoy the journey, wherever it may take us.
Yes guess that's all we can do. Would be nice to know the final destination though.

lo36789
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Re: 3 questions

Post by lo36789 » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:32 pm

There are two things that need resolving.

1. Clear the debt
2. Get back to Darlo

Personally until they are resolved then there is probably a threat of buckets and by that I mean a need for hands in pockets at some point - but I think we knew that especially regarding the ground.

And what part of what Quakerz said isn't true? We are a big club (look at our crowds) but at the moment we are p/t?

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Re: 3 questions

Post by princes town » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:54 pm

Blue Square Premier within 10 years would be a great achievement. I suspect it may be BSN. lo36789 is correct about the debt and ground move and that to me is more important than taking risky punts to prove our big club status. I still remain to be convinced that it will generate the crowd uplift described by Quakerz as I've become quite cynical. But that doesn't alter his main argument that even existing fans will disengage if we stay at HP. I also think the expansion of the CIC board is critical to get the club's wider infrastructure sorted.In many ways the off pitch stuff is bigger priority than pitch success. Managed progress is the right thing even if it is slower than what some people expect. Wage bills pretty much determine success.
Last edited by princes town on Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.

fat tony
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Re: 3 questions

Post by fat tony » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:57 pm

I've got no doubt that our proud traditional football league club will get back to where it belongs eventually. It's regression to the mean. In the same way Newport, Accrington, Wimbledon, Aldershot etc. found their way back.

How long it takes is harder to answer, and depends a lot on things like the new ground and maintaining promotion momentum. But I think we should be confident that the natural order of things states that we're too big to be in regional part-time leagues. We're on the journey back and we've just got to enjoy it like Divas says.

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Re: 3 questions

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:13 pm

Club should have short, medium and long term goals.

Short Term (2 years) - Promotion from Evo Stick 1st North and First move back to Darlo in temp stadium with minimum standard. Old Debt free, any new debt should be in regards to new stadium.

Medium Term (5 years) - Promotion into BSN with money spent to ensure BM is fit for this standard and be fully aware of what is required for BSP standard.

Long Term (10/15) - Enough money spent on BM that it could host L2 games or as the current plan a move from the Rugby pitch to our own stadium in BM. Team should hopefully be in the BSP looking for that right manager, squad or cash from FA Cup run that might just give us a shot at L2 football.

To me being part of that possible journey is what it is all about and Divas is spot on, lets work hard at our targets/goals and enjoy the ride. The biggest question mark at the moment is as Jesper advised more capital in the club required to clear the debt and at the same time getting back to Darlo.

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Re: 3 questions

Post by quakerray » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:39 pm

when/if we go to Blackwell meadows, is the plan to keep ticket prices at £9 or lower them to say £6. once back in darlo I think £9 will put extras coming to the games.
a £6 bum on a seat is better than a £9 empty seat (not that we can afford seats, :) )

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Re: 3 questions

Post by quakersam » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:51 pm

quakerray wrote:when/if we go to Blackwell meadows, is the plan to keep ticket prices at £9 or lower them to say £6. once back in darlo I think £9 will put extras coming to the games.
a £6 bum on a seat is better than a £9 empty seat (not that we can afford seats, :) )
Not a chance they will go down. If and when we get promoted they will go up again, probably £10/£11, BSN around £12-£13. Hopefully BSP we can maintain at £15.
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Robbie Painter
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Re: 3 questions

Post by Robbie Painter » Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:44 pm

My big worry is the money that needs to be raised in the next few months. Its somewhere in the order of £100k (barring any windfall from the sale of current players or income from transfer clauses of Dan Burn, David Stockdale or Michael Smith).

Regardless of whether we move back to Darlo or not we need that £100k this season to clear historic debts (to be clear these are not debts generated by 1883 but carried over from the previous administration) and put us on a sound financial footing.

Given the disastrous financial record of DFC over the last 15+ years I'm fearful any call for new funds will be met negatively. If we can't raise the money it could be game over for DFC.

To answer the opening posters questions, if we can raise this finance and return to Darlo then I fully expect us to be able to get back to L2 as a community club but it won't be easy.

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Re: 3 questions

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:56 pm

Robbie Painter wrote:My big worry is the money that needs to be raised in the next few months. Its somewhere in the order of £100k (barring any windfall from the sale of current players or income from transfer clauses of Dan Burn, David Stockdale or Michael Smith).

Regardless of whether we move back to Darlo or not we need that £100k this season to clear historic debts (to be clear these are not debts generated by 1883 but carried over from the previous administration) and put us on a sound financial footing.

Given the disastrous financial record of DFC over the last 15+ years I'm fearful any call for new funds will be met negatively. If we can't raise the money it could be game over for DFC.

To answer the opening posters questions, if we can raise this finance and return to Darlo then I fully expect us to be able to get back to L2 as a community club but it won't be easy.
Nail on head Robbie.

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Re: 3 questions

Post by m62exile » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:49 pm

We need to be carefully managing PR when it comes to fundraising that's for sure; if it comes across as another battle for survival and life support effort we will go under. We are badly damaged after recent decades of doing that.

As for dropping prices - absolutely barmy idea.

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Re: 3 questions

Post by princes town » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:59 pm

m62exile wrote: As for dropping prices - absolutely barmy idea.
Might not be so barmy if you restricted to one season to first time season ticket holders. However, I'm sure there are a thousand reasons why this may be impractical. Didn't Reynolds do something like this?

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Re: 3 questions

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:58 pm

I think Reynolds may have lowered prices during his first proper season at Feethams ?? However he defo had the B.O.G.O.F. season ticket thing going during the first season at The Arena. Whether this worked or not financially is open to debate but I'm sure it made more people turn up on match day.
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Re: 3 questions

Post by Maurice_Peddelty » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:56 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:I think Reynolds may have lowered prices during his first proper season at Feethams ?? However he defo had the B.O.G.O.F. season ticket thing going during the first season at The Arena. Whether this worked or not financially is open to debate but I'm sure it made more people turn up on match day.
The fact that Reynolds discontinued the B.O.G.O.F. would suggest to me that it didn't work financially.

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Re: 3 questions

Post by joejaques » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:11 pm

exiled fan wrote:
divas wrote:Relax and enjoy the journey, wherever it may take us.
Yes guess that's all we can do. Would be nice to know the final destination though.
At least we're on a journey, and it's not to the cemetery which it looked like being not so long ago. :roll: :roll:
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Re: 3 questions

Post by joejaques » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:11 pm

exiled fan wrote:
divas wrote:Relax and enjoy the journey, wherever it may take us.
Yes guess that's all we can do. Would be nice to know the final destination though.
At least we're on a journey, and it's not to the cemetery which it looked like being not so long ago. :roll: :roll:
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Re: 3 questions

Post by 10_day_manager » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:27 pm

Quakerz wrote:Get back to Darlo and we'll be playing in front of 2,000+ every week, regardless of the level or how we are doing, until after a season or two the crowds eventually find their level (which will be dependant on our level)
Do you honestly believe that ?

It will depend on a number of factors. The league we're actually playing in and length of time we're away from Darlo. Almost a generation of fans could be lost due to being away from the town, that generation then bring up their own children on "their" team and so it goes on. they will become TV fans of some premier side. wherever we live we've seen chelsea shirts appear once they won the title, the same thing when Man City. If we were in darlo I would agree with you but we need to get back ASAP, in my opinion, or your 2,000 will not be reached again for some considerable time, you and I may not see that figure reached again,(cup run excluded)

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Re: 3 questions

Post by darlo reborn » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:24 pm

I think top priority has to be return to Darlo even if it means staying in this league due to budget restrictions. Then if crowds increase enough,debt paid off,then go for as many promotions as finance will allow.

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Re: 3 questions

Post by Quakerz » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:47 pm

10_day_manager wrote: Do you honestly believe that ?
Yes.

I'm not normally wrong about such estimates. I wasn't wrong when I said crowds would decline regardless of the league or how we were doing. And the reason for that is I took time to examine the evidence of other clubs.

And I won't be wrong about crowds bouncing back to above the old "normal" upon our return either. Look at Maidstone - 20 years of being away from home and gates of 2-300. Came back and they're getting 1,500-2,000 regularly.

It will depend on a number of factors.
It won't. The only factor that matters will be being back. Later on, the league and our performance will be a factor.
The league we're actually playing in and length of time we're away from Darlo. Almost a generation of fans could be lost due to being away from the town, that generation then bring up their own children on "their" team and so it goes on. they will become TV fans of some premier side. wherever we live we've seen chelsea shirts appear once they won the title, the same thing when Man City. If we were in darlo I would agree with you but we need to get back ASAP, in my opinion, or your 2,000 will not be reached again for some considerable time, you and I may not see that figure reached again,(cup run excluded)
All irrelevant as argued above. We'll only be away 3 years max anyway.
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Re: 3 questions

Post by princes town » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:15 pm

Of course, you're right the HP novelty factor wore off. While you've sold me on the move back to darlo to me "it is not the only thing that matters". That can't be right. We were only getting 1,800 on Saturdays in the conference - a higher league - and we actually even lost people when we were still the town.

I can cite a load of reasons why old acquaintances of mines don't go anymore. It is much more complex than the get back to darlo mantra albeit happy to say that is top priority.

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Re: 3 questions

Post by Q8Quaker » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:10 pm

The other worrying thing about Saturdays low crowd was the noticeable lack of kids and youths at the game. The vast majority of the fans turning up are 50+ and if we are to thrive in the future we have to somehow attract the younger generation.

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Re: 3 questions

Post by m62exile » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:19 pm

Q8Quaker wrote:The other worrying thing about Saturdays low crowd was the noticeable lack of kids and youths at the game. The vast majority of the fans turning up are 50+ and if we are to thrive in the future we have to somehow attract the younger generation.
Noticed that on Saturday too although to be fair since we moved to HP I'd say the exact opposite has been true. At the Arena I often thought we had hardly any younger fans but over the last year or so I'd have said the younger generation and families were the absolute success story for us.

Just don't know where they all were on Saturday!

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Re: 3 questions

Post by darlotoon » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:49 pm

Mocks are looming for my son's age group coupled with the fact that the last 3 home games had been uninspiring to say the least . Also money gets tighter this time of year and for most of his age not much change from a tnner for the day out .

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Re: 3 questions

Post by TDS » Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:48 pm

In a way being out of the town might also bring less of the "same old darlo" thought process. We've been under the radar and some of the "fook me in the s*** again, I'm sick of hearing about that club" might become "Oh, Darlo have had success and it doesn't stink of corporate greed, might pop along after a few years of relative silence."

Once the historic debt has been paid off we should be making a sizable income to spend on the club/stadium all of a sudden that might just appear at the right time.

Who knows though, do people really want a team who will reach a ceiling and never get any higher for the risk of failing is too large? Aiming for the safety of just above relegation season after season. You may lose a few then.

A lot of answers to a lot of questions will be given over the next 5+ years, I think sitting back and enjoying it is totally the right way to view it.

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Re: 3 questions

Post by tdk1 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:34 pm

Quakerz wrote:
And I won't be wrong about crowds bouncing back to above the old "normal" upon our return either. Look at Maidstone - 20 years of being away from home and gates of 2-300. Came back and they're getting 1,500-2,000 regularly.

I find that quite heartening - it shows that the addition of a bit of extra time needn't necessarily put a permanent dampener on the club's hopes of retaining its crowds. Who knows, it could point to similar joy for Scarborough, whose attendances at Brid are, I think, pretty poor.

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Re: 3 questions

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:49 pm

Yep Maidstone attendances shot up as soon as they moved back home. The link below takes you to 2 years ago fixtures/attendances when they were outside of Maidstone, check the next two years and you will see a jump from about 450 average to about 1800.

Last season (first year back) they won promotion from the standard we are in and this year they are near the top of the Evo Premier equivalent.

http://www.maidstoneunited.co.uk/ryman- ... th-201112/

Also admission fees are not amazingly cheap, however not sure if they completed a season ticket offer. If the half season ticket prices are anything to go by, then there wasn't a great offer.

Adults £10.00
Concessions (60+/students) £7.00
Youth (11-16) £4.00
Juniors (under 11) Free*
(* when accompanied by paying adult)

Stand seat plus £1.00 on the above prices.

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