How do we get out of Division 2?

Darlo_Pete · Post by **Darlo_Pete** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:16 am

I realise that we need to stick to a tight playing budget, for the financial viability of the club. But if we do that how are we ever going to get out of Division 2? With a club like Notts Co spending big, can we compete with them? Reluctantly I have to say no. We can't continue to survive in the long term, in the Arena and yet remain a Division 2 club. For the future of our club we must get promoted, not necessarily this year, but within 2 or 3 years, as love it or loathe it we're stuck with the Arena. I don't really know what the answer is, but there must be one out there somewhere.

divas · Post by **divas** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:24 am

Why cant we survive in this division in that stadium? As long as the backroom staff and playing budget is realistic, which it seems to be getting towards i think we'll be a lot more viable proposition, we certainly wont be losing £2m a year.

I dont think the stadium is as massive a financial drain as some people believe, but i think the infrastructure that Houghton put in at the club was - overpaid staff & players.

Raj has stated that the finances are in place for the next 3 or 4 years so lets just see what happens, everyone is tightening their belts at the moment and who knows, if we manage to get some good yound loanees that could be the difference this season.

We threw money at the playing staff for the last 2/3 seasons and look where that got us (admittedly we should have got there last season but for the rug being pulled from under us), money doesnt necessarily mean success, it just makes it a tad easier.

The answer is we need to stabilise the club, focus on youth development and hope that Todd finds a couple of gems. Teams like Hereford & Exeter have shown in recent seasons that you dont need a pot of money to go up.

Haji el Maveric · Post by **Haji el Maveric** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:38 am

Question: How do we get out of Division 2? Answer: Win more games than everybody else.

knoxy5000 · Post by **knoxy5000** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:08 am

As proved before at the cost of administration twice over money doesnt always buy us success, or the third time a new stand for that fact!!!!!

StevieMardenboro · Post by **StevieMardenboro** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:44 am

Not too long ago we were faced with the prospect of AFC Darlo in the Wearside League. Being in league two feels pretty good to me. If we can compete, avoid the drop and balance the books this season then I think this will have been one of Darlo's best achievements since Brian Little

TinShedDarloFan · Post by **TinShedDarloFan** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:51 am

Just looking at our league last season, going for promotion you had Exeter/Bury/Rochdale, none of them on big budgets, Bury and Rochdale getting similar crowds to us so there prime examples of not needing a huge budget to have good seasons, theres also te example of Hereford with there loan signings, if Toddy can bring in 3 or 4 good loans from the big 3 then we've got eery chance of having a half decent season

Child_in_Time · Post by **Child_in_Time** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:21 pm

Haji el Maveric wrote:Question: How do we get out of Division 2? Answer: Win more games than everybody else.

We could sign the likes of Convery, James and Starosta (sp?)!!

quaker4life · Post by **quaker4life** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:49 pm

Haji el Maveric wrote:Question: How do we get out of Division 2? Answer: Win more games than everybody else.

What he said.

Pete I think you can forget any ideas of promotion in the near future, as Divas said as long as the club lives with in it's means it is sustainable in Leauge 2.

aveda · Post by **aveda** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:57 pm

If we sign the players he has agreed contracts with and can bring in another 2 or 3 on loan then we have a good chance of a top half finish with an outside sniff of the play offs. It would be down to luck with injuries, and we're due a season of luck on that front.

oldunwitkids · Post by **oldunwitkids** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:01 pm

Haji el Maveric wrote:Question: How do we get out of Division 2? Answer: Win more games than everybody else.

And hpoefully don't lose more games than most and leave the other way!

Jimmy · Post by **Jimmy** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:38 pm

Why start a pointless thread like this?

We're not even out of administration, we've took on a squad of all new players and your wanting to know when we'll get out of this division. FFS.

Answer - not for a long time, we have to come to terms with that we don't and won't have a playing budget like last season, because the end result is the football club nearly dying.

We're doing it sensibly this time, for once!

Darlo Cockney · Post by **Darlo Cockney** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:47 pm

People moan about the Arena, but it potentially could be a great source of income for the Club.

I know that Raj has plans for it to provide more funds for the Club, including more concerts. Trouble is that these can only be held straight after the season ends.

Let Toddy look after the playing side and I'm sure Raj work to run the commercial side better and involve the fans more - the forum is just a start.

DC

TinShedDarloFan · Post by **TinShedDarloFan** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:54 pm

People say that this stadium will be the death of the club, why does it have to be, like DC sas theres great potential in the ground to make money, simple things like the size of the car park, for the Newcastle game it was full, so theres around 1500 cars paying £5, theres £7500 we couldnt of made at Feethams, theres always functions going on at the ground such as Parties, Meetings etc, fair enough these could of been hel at Feethams but the facilities back at Feethams were far fromt he standard we have now, we've just had a fair in the car park, more money to the club, then theres concerts, we've already had the success of Elton John and its common knowledge that Raj wants more concerts at the stadium

quaker4life · Post by **quaker4life** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:12 pm

Jimmy wrote:Why start a pointless thread like this?

We're not even out of administration, we've took on a squad of all new players and your wanting to know when we'll get out of this division. FFS.

Answer - not for a long time, we have to come to terms with that we don't and won't have a playing budget like last season, because the end result is the football club nearly dying.

We're doing it sensibly this time, for once!

I take it you're new to the messageboards?

Pete is the king of pointless threads!

Notts_Quaker · Post by **Notts_Quaker** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:25 pm

TinShedDarloFan wrote:People say that this stadium will be the death of the club, why does it have to be, like DC sas theres great potential in the ground to make money, simple things like the size of the car park, for the Newcastle game it was full, so theres around 1500 cars paying £5, theres £7500 we couldnt of made at Feethams, theres always functions going on at the ground such as Parties, Meetings etc, fair enough these could of been hel at Feethams but the facilities back at Feethams were far fromt he standard we have now, we've just had a fair in the car park, more money to the club, then theres concerts, we've already had the success of Elton John and its common knowledge that Raj wants more concerts at the stadium

Spot on, it's been doing my head in people saying the Arena is a drain, it definately brings in more revenue than people think. when Reynolds built it, it was not soley for football purposes, he intended for concerts, car boots, fairs etc. It's the council who have been holding us back by not allowing them.

olrad · Post by **olrad** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:35 pm

not forgetting the stadium and football club are two seperate companies, i'd be very interested to see how the other company did last season. it has to be doing okay on none football days with concert, dinners and functions

Spyman · Post by **Spyman** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:53 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:I realise that we need to stick to a tight playing budget, for the financial viability of the club. But if we do that how are we ever going to get out of Division 2? With a club like Notts Co spending big, can we compete with them? Reluctantly I have to say no. We can't continue to survive in the long term, in the Arena and yet remain a Division 2 club. For the future of our club we must get promoted, not necessarily this year, but within 2 or 3 years, as love it or loathe it we're stuck with the Arena. I don't really know what the answer is, but there must be one out there somewhere.

What we need, is for a rich investor to take a chance on the club, plough borrowed money into it and hope the town gets behind it and we get the rub of the green on the pitch with injuries and the like.

dfcdfcdfc · Post by **dfcdfcdfc** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:21 am

Notts_Quaker wrote:
TinShedDarloFan wrote:People say that this stadium will be the death of the club, why does it have to be, like DC sas theres great potential in the ground to make money, simple things like the size of the car park, for the Newcastle game it was full, so theres around 1500 cars paying £5, theres £7500 we couldnt of made at Feethams, theres always functions going on at the ground such as Parties, Meetings etc, fair enough these could of been hel at Feethams but the facilities back at Feethams were far fromt he standard we have now, we've just had a fair in the car park, more money to the club, then theres concerts, we've already had the success of Elton John and its common knowledge that Raj wants more concerts at the stadium

Spot on, it's been doing my head in people saying the Arena is a drain, it definately brings in more revenue than people think. when Reynolds built it, it was not soley for football purposes, he intended for concerts, car boots, fairs etc. It's the council who have been holding us back by not allowing them.

Exactly. The stadium is not the reason we have money problems - properly exploited it is the clubs biggest asset - the real reasons have already been outlined above. Too many people swallow this Poolie spin and regurgitate it unthinkingly. I loved Feethams but Reynolds was right when he said it couldn't continue in its existing condition. There were better options than the one he chose but that's 'spilt milk'. It is a problem with regard to atmosphere and we need to work on that but it is not the reason for our financial plight and we need to face up to it and stop buying in to poolie propoganda.

Al Sharp · Post by **Al Sharp** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:07 am

dfcdfcdfc wrote: It is a problem with regard to atmosphere and we need to work on that

Is it really? I haven't been able to attend games regularly since the last season at Feethams, sadly, and haven't ever been able to manage more than a handful of games per season since. However, I've occasionally experienced some pretty good atmospheres at the Arena before, where I've really though "fucking 'ell this is great!", considering that 85%+ of the seats were empty! I remember the night (can't remember against who) about 4/5 years back when we got a samba drum ensemble in and everyone got into it, and for some strange reason a match against Boston in the first (?) season at the Arena which we won 3-1 with Matt Clarke displaying some David Villa-esque skills up front when the place was bouncing!

Admittedly I've experienced some flat atmospheres at the Arena too, but then again Feethams experience wasn't exactly like watching Boca Juniors v River Plate. There is certainly potential for a half-decent atmosphere at the Arena in my experience.

DARL · Post by **DARL** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:45 pm

Haji el Maveric wrote:Question: How do we get out of Division 2? Answer: Win more games than everybody else.

or lose morethan anybody else

Hawkeye · Post by **Hawkeye** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:52 pm

DARL wrote:
Haji el Maveric wrote:Question: How do we get out of Division 2? Answer: Win more games than everybody else.
or lose morethan anybody else

Perhaps, but... you brought back a 3-month-old thread just to say that?

wylam_rangers · Post by **wylam_rangers** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:03 pm

DARL wrote:
Haji el Maveric wrote:Question: How do we get out of Division 2? Answer: Win more games than everybody else.
or lose morethan anybody else

What a tit!

ShrewsX · Post by **ShrewsX** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:20 am

As I have said before, and I will continue to say...

in its present form, League 2 is fucked. Yes there will always be the optimistic George Reynolds of the world who will bankroll a club in the hope of quick success, but the fact is, that the money is in...
- The Established Premiership Teams
- The "Upper Championship/YoYo" teams
When they realise that, then admin beckons, and collapse.

Breaking into that group will cost more than Raj Singh, George Haughton and George Reynolds COMBINED could afford. Unless the likes of Richard Branson or Sultan Hassan Bolkiah of Brunei develop an interest in Darlo, I'm afraid chances of any long term success are limited.

The huge influx of foreigners means that the days of "progressing up the leagues" is gone. Darlo/Hartlepool/Lincoln etc might find some good talent, but they will only command a transfer fee for staying at the same level. The days of "home grown talent" are gone. If we find a 30 goal a season striker, the big clubs will just sit back and wait till his 12month contract (all we could afford to offer) runs out at get him for nothing. If he isn't good enough, they will either SELL him (making them money) to a lower league club (who thinks they are getting a great player) or he will be loaned back to a club a t his natural level. So theres one traditional revenue stream gone.
So what else will make the owners money... Price increases for the fans. Which turns people away. Which leads to loans and administration. I would happily bet anyone that in 2019, League 2 (or the majority of current L2 teams) will be at least semi professional.
We are heading like America's NBA/NFL. Where everyone in a state (or county) supports their "Major League" team. In ten years, I'd be surprised if there is even a L2 highlights show.

Its started, and it will become unstoppable. The NFL plays games in Europe already, the premiership has already discussed Premier League matches to be staged around the word. Theres been talk of a Euro-league to replace the premiership for years. Celtic and Rangers to join the English league. Champions League is on terrestial TV, domestic league isnt... Sorry folks, but football has changed. Darlo, Pools and everyone outside the top 30 teams in England will have missed the boat.

Shrews

DEEJAY · Post by **DEEJAY** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:14 am

Haji el Maveric wrote:Question: How do we get out of Division 2? Answer: Win more games than everybody else.

simple a m8

wylam_rangers · Post by **wylam_rangers** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:59 am

ShrewsX wrote:As I have said before, and I will continue to say...

in its present form, League 2 is fucked. Yes there will always be the optimistic George Reynolds of the world who will bankroll a club in the hope of quick success, but the fact is, that the money is in...
- The Established Premiership Teams
- The "Upper Championship/YoYo" teams
When they realise that, then admin beckons, and collapse.

Breaking into that group will cost more than Raj Singh, George Haughton and George Reynolds COMBINED could afford. Unless the likes of Richard Branson or Sultan Hassan Bolkiah of Brunei develop an interest in Darlo, I'm afraid chances of any long term success are limited.

The huge influx of foreigners means that the days of "progressing up the leagues" is gone. Darlo/Hartlepool/Lincoln etc might find some good talent, but they will only command a transfer fee for staying at the same level. The days of "home grown talent" are gone. If we find a 30 goal a season striker, the big clubs will just sit back and wait till his 12month contract (all we could afford to offer) runs out at get him for nothing. If he isn't good enough, they will either SELL him (making them money) to a lower league club (who thinks they are getting a great player) or he will be loaned back to a club a t his natural level. So theres one traditional revenue stream gone.
So what else will make the owners money... Price increases for the fans. Which turns people away. Which leads to loans and administration. I would happily bet anyone that in 2019, League 2 (or the majority of current L2 teams) will be at least semi professional.
We are heading like America's NBA/NFL. Where everyone in a state (or county) supports their "Major League" team. In ten years, I'd be surprised if there is even a L2 highlights show.

Its started, and it will become unstoppable. The NFL plays games in Europe already, the premiership has already discussed Premier League matches to be staged around the word. Theres been talk of a Euro-league to replace the premiership for years. Celtic and Rangers to join the English league. Champions League is on terrestial TV, domestic league isnt... Sorry folks, but football has changed. Darlo, Pools and everyone outside the top 30 teams in England will have missed the boat.

Shrews

Shrews - tell me this is NOT a beer-fuelled rant in the middle of the night!

DARL · Post by **DARL** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:13 pm

wylam_rangers wrote:
DARL wrote:
Haji el Maveric wrote:Question: How do we get out of Division 2? Answer: Win more games than everybody else.
or lose morethan anybody else
What a tit!

DONT YOU FUCKING DARE CALL ME A TIT

Hawkeye · Post by **Hawkeye** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:20 pm

DARL wrote:
DONT YOU f***ing DARE CALL ME A TIT

wylam_rangers · Post by **wylam_rangers** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:16 pm

Hawkeye wrote:
DARL wrote:
DONT YOU f***ing DARE CALL ME A TIT

Mr DARL

You have indicated most clearly to the assembled audience that you are a GREAT TIT (in the largest possible font - which I can't be bothered to explore)

Quakerz · Post by **Quakerz** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:36 pm

No he hasn't. He seems alright to me.

ShrewsX · Post by **ShrewsX** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:05 am

wylam_rangers wrote:
ShrewsX wrote:As I have said before, and I will continue to say...

in its present form, League 2 is fucked. Yes there will always be the optimistic George Reynolds of the world who will bankroll a club in the hope of quick success, but the fact is, that the money is in...
- The Established Premiership Teams
- The "Upper Championship/YoYo" teams
When they realise that, then admin beckons, and collapse.

Breaking into that group will cost more than Raj Singh, George Haughton and George Reynolds COMBINED could afford. Unless the likes of Richard Branson or Sultan Hassan Bolkiah of Brunei develop an interest in Darlo, I'm afraid chances of any long term success are limited.

The huge influx of foreigners means that the days of "progressing up the leagues" is gone. Darlo/Hartlepool/Lincoln etc might find some good talent, but they will only command a transfer fee for staying at the same level. The days of "home grown talent" are gone. If we find a 30 goal a season striker, the big clubs will just sit back and wait till his 12month contract (all we could afford to offer) runs out at get him for nothing. If he isn't good enough, they will either SELL him (making them money) to a lower league club (who thinks they are getting a great player) or he will be loaned back to a club a t his natural level. So theres one traditional revenue stream gone.
So what else will make the owners money... Price increases for the fans. Which turns people away. Which leads to loans and administration. I would happily bet anyone that in 2019, League 2 (or the majority of current L2 teams) will be at least semi professional.
We are heading like America's NBA/NFL. Where everyone in a state (or county) supports their "Major League" team. In ten years, I'd be surprised if there is even a L2 highlights show.

Its started, and it will become unstoppable. The NFL plays games in Europe already, the premiership has already discussed Premier League matches to be staged around the word. Theres been talk of a Euro-league to replace the premiership for years. Celtic and Rangers to join the English league. Champions League is on terrestial TV, domestic league isnt... Sorry folks, but football has changed. Darlo, Pools and everyone outside the top 30 teams in England will have missed the boat.

Shrews
Shrews - tell me this is NOT a beer-fuelled rant in the middle of the night!

Actually it was a "midnight rant, because I was generally pissed off at everything after getting home much later than I should have after a pointless late shift".

Seriously though I stand by it. We are struggling at this level, (like many other teams), we have no "home grown talent" to sell, dwindling attendances, and a town full of people who wear Man Utd, Arsenal etc shirts and respond with "they're shite" at the mention of DFC.
Can you see a long term (ie 15-20 year) future in football at this level? Without radical change throughout the game there won't be one. And the spineless FA won't bring in the rules that are needed to save this level, because they wont upset the "big clubs" for the sake of us. And to be fair, why should they, thats where they are getting their money from, thats where they are getting the prestige. It hurts me to say it, but the premiership is actually now bigger than the FA. The premiership can survive without the FA, the FA would not survive without the Premiership.

Sad... but true. We're already charging almost £20 and people are voting with thir feet. Wages are going up, but we cant keep upping the prices. there is a limit an we are reaching it. No matter how keen a fan you are, theres a limit to your resources.

Bring in a cap on foreigners, limit the wages across the board, spread out TV money accross the divisions... and maybe we have a chance. But it wont happen. The only way clubs can survive is with millionaire backing...which we have had twice, and its almost killed us both times.

For all i was very cynical of Raj, he is trying to make us sustainable, and I hate to say it, but i think he is attempting the impossible, Sustainability requires crowds. Crowds expect entertainment. Entertainment requires outlay of cash, outlay of cash requires more spending. Spending is gambled on players. players cost money, and theres the sustainability model gone. You can spend money on players in an instant, but generating the crowds to support them takes months and years. Its a cycle that will kill the lower leagues in their present format.

Shrews

Darlo Uncovered

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