Temp stand at HP

[LLB]

Heard rumours that we may be keeping this at HP. Any ideas? Would expect we will pay something in the way of cash or rent adjustment if true. Certainly would prefer it to stay rather than have nothing at that end of ground.

[Darlo_Pete]

I thought that those stands were part of the Blackwell Meadows new ground. It's the first I've heard that it's staying at HP.

[divas]

Yes that's correct LLB it was announced at the forum on Thursday that Darlo had offered BA the opportunity to keep the stand at HP as it didn't fit with our plans at BM.

From what I gathered we wouldn't be looking for a fee.

The seats that are planned for BM are modular and have the roof attached I believe.

[dickdarlington]

Personally, I don't see the point why Bish would be interested. You don't need the capacity, and given their location they are very exposed.

From our perspective, given the hassle in getting them in the first place, I think there would be an inquest if they weren't moved to Blackwell. Even if they're just placed behind a goal again and anyone can sit in them. we're already going to have the 146 existing seats that won't count towards the capacity given their location, though I think these should also be moved forwards, or to the East End.

I suppose the cost of moving them would be factored in, but i can't see this being too significant.

The stand being constructed at BM will have two prebuilt seating decks each containing 246 seats in five rows (according to the plans). This will be more cost effective than coverting the temp stands into a permanent structure (as we couldn't use scaffolding).

What irks me about the new stand is that the seating will be split into two (but under one roof to class it as one structure for ground grading) due to the current subs benches. These won't be used going forwards (there will be new perspex ones in front of the club house), but because they were built by the ladies rugby team, they are going to remain. My suggestion would be for us to offer to move them to the seconds pitch, and re-erect them there. They would still serve their purpose. More so in fact, as there is work needed to be done on the seconds pitch to allow them to play at their current level.

[divas]

Interesting point regarding the dugouts. I'd not heard that, but even if we start with them in place I'd doubt it'll be long before they are re-homed along with one or two other changes.

[dickdarlington]

I think we're trying to find the happy medium at the moment, and rightly so, but common sense will prevail, and hopefully we can infill the gap or (more likely) unbolt the seating decks and push them together.

[Quakerz]

Personally, I don't see the point why Bish would be interested. You don't need the capacity, and given their location they are very exposed.

From our perspective, given the hassle in getting them in the first place, I think there would be an inquest if they weren't moved to Blackwell. Even if they're just placed behind a goal again and anyone can sit in them. we're already going to have the 146 existing seats that won't count towards the capacity given their location, though I think these should also be moved forwards, or to the East End.

I suppose the cost of moving them would be factored in, but i can't see this being too significant.

The stand being constructed at BM will have two prebuilt seating decks each containing 246 seats in five rows (according to the plans). This will be more cost effective than coverting the temp stands into a permanent structure (as we couldn't use scaffolding).

What irks me about the new stand is that the seating will be split into two (but under one roof to class it as one structure for ground grading) due to the current subs benches. These won't be used going forwards (there will be new perspex ones in front of the club house), but because they were built by the ladies rugby team, they are going to remain. My suggestion would be for us to offer to move them to the seconds pitch, and re-erect them there. They would still serve their purpose. More so in fact, as there is work needed to be done on the seconds pitch to allow them to play at their current level.

I think those plans for the stand have changed, and they are now going to be modular stands (ie like Arena Seating, or actually that) where each stand has their own roof attached. Obviously if that turns out to be the case then we couldn't have two separate stands with a common roof. However many modules we buy would probably be pushed together otherwise they'll look silly.

I hope we don't go for the 4 row versions, and have a bit of foresight and get modules with more rows of seats - because if you keep adding on and fill one side, the 4 seat ones wouldn't give much capacity at all, whereas 7 or 10 row ones would.

[divas]

I think we're trying to find the happy medium at the moment, and rightly so, but common sense will prevail, and hopefully we can infill the gap or (more likely) unbolt the seating decks and push them together.

Yup, exactly. Softly, softly.

[divas]

I think those plans for the stand have changed, and they are now going to be modular stands (ie like Arena Seating, or actually that) where each stand has their own roof attached. Obviously if that turns out to be the case then we couldn't have two separate stands with a common roof. However many modules we buy would probably be pushed together otherwise they'll look silly.

I hope we don't go for the 4 row versions, and have a bit of foresight and get modules with more rows of seats - because if you keep adding on and fill one side, the 4 seat ones wouldn't give much capacity at all, whereas 7 or 10 row ones would.

Yeah I think the change has been borne out of the fact we need the stand to be able to be moved if needed to comply with Northumbrian Water.

Good call regarding the number of rows. If nothing else the 7/10 row versions would give a better view! However, the stands that have been mentioned come in modules of 50 so I'd expect 3 x rows of 12 seats with a back-row of 14 seats

[Quakerz]

All that means is that once you've seated the entire side (eventually) you'd only have about 600 seats. Once you get to near football league standard grounds, you'd never get anywhere near the 5,000 capacity required, not near.

That would mean having to get rid of all those stands and having to buy bigger modules. So why not get them in the first place?

Obviously cost would be a factor, and I suppose it's easier to remove one 50 seat module to get at the water pipe, rather than a 250 seat module.

[divas]

All very valid points. I'm concerned about the future upgradability of the ground to anything like 5K, not least because of this pipe. I'm sure getting around it in the early stages as there won't be much to the ground, but if we have aspirations of progressing I think we'll be hampered.

The impression I'm often left with is we're looking no further forwards than the next 5 years

[dickdarlington]

One full side of 4 rows (or Arena seats) would provide a capacity of 720 (this is what Histon has).

Not even close to being sufficient.

I'm with you Divas, I have concerns over the long term evolution of the ground. There's building in piecemeal/organic fashion, but then there's doing it with a master plan.

Re being able to move blocks, the RDS in Dublin has a stand built in this way. It's 15 rows deep (give or take), and the centre section is simply unbolted and lifted out of the way should they need access. (admittedly the RDS roof is not a part of it). Because it is a hollow metal frame, there is little to no weight. In theory, you have a concreta base at either side, and suspend the seating deck over an accessable duct.

I'd love to be involved in the development plans. I'm sure a lot of us would.

Re cost per seat, I doubt there is much difference between the 4 row and 7 or 10 row structures, as the cumulative volume of steel would be similar. The only addition would be the cantelever of the roof.

I've said it repeatedly (albeit not here), we should be looking at Ross County as a template of how to build a ground cheaply and to the applicable level.

[JE93]

I can see what people are worrying about in terms of future expansion, but I think the dates that we're talking about are a long way in the future yet. If we have a 3,000 capacity we have a good basis to build upon. The end on the south park side can be developed, I'm sure the tin shed could be redeveloped to make it bigger. In fact if there was going to be a side of the ground that would cause problems I think its the Clubhouse side, its going to be very difficult to develop and there are already seats there that are not useful to us.

But as i say I don't think any of this is too much of a problem yet, a 3,000 capacity ground would give us ample for the coming years (although we will have to fund raise and hopefully have some FA cup runs to improve as we go). If you have a look at this website http://www.footballgroundguide.com/leag ... rence.html and look at the grounds of Eastleigh, Braintree and Nuneaton, these are conference teams and their grounds aren't up to much.

[lo36789]

I could be completely wrong here, but as I understand it the east side behind the goal is being left undeveloped? So theoretically the modular stands which we are putting in place on the 'new south stand' could be move to become an east stand in the future.

This could theoretically free up the space to create a bigger main stand here if we needed another 2,000 capacity? Again this could be modular I assume?

It all feels like should be flexible for future changes - but maybe there is more to it than I think?

[theoriginalfatcat]

From what I gathered we wouldn't be looking for a fee.

I feel this to be a bit strange. A structure like this obviously has a value, can we afford to simply give it away??

[LoidLucan]

Does anyone know how much it cost us?

[BlackandwhiteBOB]

30k seems to ring a bell with me

[LoidLucan]

Bloody ell.

[D_F_C]

I can see what people are worrying about in terms of future expansion, but I think the dates that we're talking about are a long way in the future yet. If we have a 3,000 capacity we have a good basis to build upon. The end on the south park side can be developed, I'm sure the tin shed could be redeveloped to make it bigger. In fact if there was going to be a side of the ground that would cause problems I think its the Clubhouse side, its going to be very difficult to develop and there are already seats there that are not useful to us.

But as i say I don't think any of this is too much of a problem yet, a 3,000 capacity ground would give us ample for the coming years (although we will have to fund raise and hopefully have some FA cup runs to improve as we go). If you have a look at this website http://www.footballgroundguide.com/leag ... rence.html and look at the grounds of Eastleigh, Braintree and Nuneaton, these are conference teams and their grounds aren't up to much.

Great website. I'd love something like Forest Green. Didn't realise that they had a stadium like that. I was led to believe it was like a small village

[Darlobp]

The issue with the water main will seriously effect future development of the pitch area at Blackwell meadows. The water main is of strategic regional importance as it supply`s millions of litres water to Teesside and there is no way NWL will allow anything to damage this main or even allow anything that would stop immediate repairs to this important water main.

Ironically its the same water main that had to be diverted around the arena at huge cost to GR and added to DFC debts.

I think its great using Blackwell as a way back to Darlo, once back home then there will be some hard thinking on where and what we spend money on developing.

[Ingleby]

Does anyone know how much it cost us?

£42,000 has been mentioned.

[LoidLucan]

Bloody, bloody ell. That could have come in handy.

[D_F_C]

Got to love Halifax as well.

Since I last went there, they've built that big new stand (reminds me of our old East Stand - what a great stand that was) and they've put roofs on both open terraces behind the goals (although don't understand where there are cars in one of the stands).

If memory serves me correct, the first GR year when we threw away promotion we played Halifax away and scraped a 1-0 win with Gabbers scoring late on. We took plenty that day

[lo36789]

The issue with the water main will seriously effect future development of the pitch area at Blackwell meadows. The water main is of strategic regional importance as it supply`s millions of litres water to Teesside and there is no way NWL will allow anything to damage this main or even allow anything that would stop immediate repairs to this important water main.

Ironically its the same water main that had to be diverted around the arena at huge cost to GR and added to DFC debts.

I think its great using Blackwell as a way back to Darlo, once back home then there will be some hard thinking on where and what we spend money on developing.

This water main is surely built on at some points? To get from Blackwell to the Arena it has to go through a housing estate?

[Darlobp]

It will be up to Northumbrian water what they will or will not allow to be built over a water main, but I think NWs planning objection and the knowledge of the diversion work needed at the arena set the president for any development more than that of a small lightweight structure at Blackwell.

[lo36789]

Just thinking that it seems weird that they are completely happy with a modular stand on the south side yet the pipe seems to go under the proposed terrace as well and that hasn't caused issue.

Ha just waiting for that game we have called off because NW are digging up our pitch...

[Darlobp]

At this stage of our return home I dont see the water main as a big problem,for now as a NPL/con north team lets get back anyway we can. Its just when looking into the future and thinking on how Blackwell could be developed the logical route would be building a large stand along the lines of the Feethams east stand opposite the club house and then we have a ground fit for a future maybe one day back in the football league, and then the water main will be an issue. In saying that I think Blackwell meadows has the space for growth if its developed in the right areas.

[bga]

[quote="dickdarlington"]
I'd love to be involved in the development plans. I'm sure a lot of us would.

You and a number of others have made some very valid points. Surely the club would value your input have you (or others) contacted them to volunteer your help with this project?

[Darlo_Pete]

Scott what's the low down with Northumbria Water over this pipe?

[uncovered]

At the moment it would not be appropriate for me to comment.