Attendance at BM

[CrazyDarlo]

I believe the new capacity is 2,500 (correct me if i'm wrong) obviously first few games i expect we will be in and around capacity but once it settles down what kind of numbers can we expect? If we are in and around the play offs, i expect about 1400 - 1800. The level is still a big drop from the confrence so we must be at least challenging for promotion or we'll soon start seeing HP crowd levels.

[princes town]

It is a difficult one to predict. I really don't know.

[Neil Johnson]

Good & attractive start is very important.

The NL play was attractive to watch, not so with some of the NPL attrition work.

Fingers and toes crossed for Army & Amar being ready for the off.

[Darlo_Pete]

It all depends how we start the season. I'd like to think we'd start pretty well and get an average of 1700, with 2000+ for big games. Of course our average could be hit, if as a good few think, we don't start the season at BM.

[Darlogramps]

Good & attractive start is very important.

The NL play was attractive to watch, not so with some of the NPL attrition work.

Fingers and toes crossed for Army & Amar being ready for the off.

You do realise the contradiction you've made? The "attrition work" you so despise is brought about mostly because we play to Army and Amar's greater physical presence.

And it's far too simplistic and idealistic to say we should be playing a quick on-the-ground passing game. On some of these pitches, with part-time players, "attritional play" is the most effective method at times.

The truth of the matter is that it's necessary to use differing styles, depending on the opposition, pitches or circumstances of the game.

So can you please stop with this narrow-minded, simplistic nonsense about passing v attritional hoofball. It's much more complex than that.

And another thing, our style of play hasn't changed from Northern League to NPL. I've no idea where you've got that from. We won by more in the Northern League, but that's because the quality of opposition was poor. It's a glorified pub league.

The NPL is tougher, and with better organised opponents, it takes a lot more to break them down. We can't just skip through defences at this level.

Fans mainly give a stuff about winning. That, combined with good marketing and good community engagement (ugh, what a horrible piece of jargon), is what will help increase attendances.

So on the whole, everything you've put is incorrect.

[m62exile]

I did notice that the hoofball critics still seemed to quite enjoy us winning the play off by virtue of a long throw in and a set piece.

[Twintowers]

Good & attractive start is very important.

The NL play was attractive to watch, not so with some of the NPL attrition work.

Fingers and toes crossed for Army & Amar being ready for the off.

Still haven't got your typing finger connected to your nut have you Neil.

[al_quaker]

The NL play was attractive to watch, not so with some of the NPL attrition work.

I don't get this point. To my eyes we have played basically the same way since Gray came in. We have always got the ball forwards early, into the channels, and won possession high up the pitch. Then, once the game is won we are happier keeping possession and passing through teams. We did it in the NL, we did it in Evo1N. We will probably do it again in EvoPrem.

[TFDM]

I'm with al on this. I've not seen us play that differently at all. We play a direct style of football which is to move the ball forward as quickly as possible from the back and our own final third and into the opposition's. Note this isn't the same as long ball before any starts.

Once we've got it into the opponents final third we generally play with the ball much more. It makes perfect sense to me, you can't hurt the opposition passing it around in your own half. Besides if you want a look at where ideal, passing football will get you then go and have a look at Droylsden. They tried that and we buried them at our place.

No one remembers a nice noble style of play which wins nothing. There is nothing wrong with the way we play. Winning football matches is attraction enough. There is only so much passing you can play at this level anyway. Teams are on you too quickly at the back and by the end of November pitches have turned into cabbage patches making it very difficult.

[Fibonacci0112358]

The NL play was attractive to watch, not so with some of the NPL attrition work.

I don't get this point. To my eyes we have played basically the same way since Gray came in. We have always got the ball forwards early, into the channels, and won possession high up the pitch. Then, once the game is won we are happier keeping possession and passing through teams. We did it in the NL, we did it in Evo1N. We will probably do it again in EvoPrem.

I'm with al on this. I've not seen us play that differently at all. We play a direct style of football which is to move the ball forward as quickly as possible from the back and our own final third and into the opposition's. Note this isn't the same as long ball before any starts.

Once we've got it into the opponents final third we generally play with the ball much more. It makes perfect sense to me, you can't hurt the opposition passing it around in your own half. Besides if you want a look at where ideal, passing football will get you then go and have a look at Droylsden. They tried that and we buried them at our place.

No one remembers a nice noble style of play which wins nothing. There is nothing wrong with the way we play. Winning football matches is attraction enough. There is only so much passing you can play at this level anyway. Teams are on you too quickly at the back and by the end of November pitches have turned into cabbage patches making it very difficult.

Echo these points!

[tdk1]

I'm sure it's possible to be a slick, passing side at this level - but why make a huge change to what has been massively successful because some people want to imagine we are a seventh tier Barcelona? We beat bamber when we utterly bombarded them - they really couldn't handle it in the second half, and I for one have zero problem with that.

I also disagree that it's bad to watch. When you play in a way that gets the ball forward fast and lumps relentless pressure on the opposition defence, it's thrilling. Look at penney's time in charge. He said from day one that was his aim, and it was great. For hatch and Clarke, read Armstrong and cartman. I don't want to watch football that makes you stroke your chin and occasionally wave your cigarette holder in the air, I want football that absolutely scares the s*** out of the opponent, and until messi and Ronald see the benefit of a careDr at NPL premier level, that's going to be about pace and power.

[divas]

An interesting observation re Dave Penney's Darlo - I wonder how much of Gray's style was shaped during his time alongside Penney?!

At lest he's stopped short of quoting "we need a few more bodies in"

[tdk1]

An interesting observation re Dave Penney's Darlo - I wonder how much of Gray's style was shaped during his time alongside Penney?!

At lest he's stopped short of quoting "we need a few more bodies in"

I think the comparison bears a lot of scrutiny. In mifield there is an enforcer and a driver - scott/portas = ravenhill/Kennedy (Although much as I love Leon, it'll take a long time before anyone shifts my man crush on RR). You have two immovable centre halves, out and out wingers, and some players who are regarded as essential because they are versatile - Scott, Mitchell, and galbraith, who you might see as the modern purdie.

There's also a fixation with signing strikers - hatch, Abbott, wright, harty, proudlock, Clarke, foran, Carlton, All signed under dp - there's the total unsentimentality about allowing players to move on, the structured, organised princpile behind our tactics.

Finally, Gray, hatch and white were all involved when we had the rug pulled by Houghton. This promotion felt to me like it was a long time in the making, and that just made it so much the sweeter.

[Quakerz]

An interesting observation re Dave Penney's Darlo - I wonder how much of Gray's style was shaped during his time alongside Penney?!

At lest he's stopped short of quoting "we need a few more bodies in"

I think the comparison bears a lot of scrutiny. In mifield there is an enforcer and a driver - scott/portas = ravenhill/Kennedy (Although much as I love Leon, it'll take a long time before anyone shifts my man crush on RR). You have two immovable centre halves, out and out wingers, and some players who are regarded as essential because they are versatile - Scott, Mitchell, and galbraith, who you might see as the modern purdie.

There's also a fixation with signing strikers - hatch, Abbott, wright, harty, proudlock, Clarke, foran, Carlton, All signed under dp - there's the total unsentimentality about allowing players to move on, the structured, organised princpile behind our tactics.

Finally, Gray, hatch and white were all involved when we had the rug pulled by Houghton. This promotion felt to me like it was a long time in the making, and that just made it so much the sweeter.

Good read that!

Left backs as well, you can never have too many left backs.

Last season we had Galbraith, Scott, Watson and Weldon who can all play left back, and somebody rumoured the other day that we are after Matty Robson, another left back/winger.

Gray is Penney re-incarnated isn't he?

I loved Penney's style of play, though a small percentage of the crowd (mainly the Hodgy "total football" lovers) moaned incessantly about long ball, and to "get it on the floor and make pretty passes, man". Those same people never wanted Penney in the first place because they hadn't and couldn't get over Hodgies sacking - but regardless of whether what went on was fair or not with the sacking, it wasn't Penney's fault.

[Quakerz]

An interesting observation re Dave Penney's Darlo - I wonder how much of Gray's style was shaped during his time alongside Penney?!

At lest he's stopped short of quoting "we need a few more bodies in"

That would complete my life if Gray started saying that.

[My opinion]

It has to be said that some of our football this season (not all by any means) has been atrocious..Most of the bad play seemed around the time we lost Amar and brought in Nathan Cartman..The players were still playing balls up to him in the expectation that he would out jump the centre backs and that was never going to work...Indeed i think Cartman must have wondered what he had let himself in for.
We had a midfield at that time that was continually being bypassed and the wingers were not getting wide or supporting the forwards.
Well, that is my thoughts and have to say that a lot of others thought the same.

[divas]

We had a bad patch of 4 games.

[JE93]

Think atrocious is a bit unfair. Got to remember this is a team of part time players. I thought Man City were pretty atrocious when they got beat by Burnley and they're on hundreds of thousands a week. There are going to come games in a season for whatever reason (fatigue, wind, pitch condition etc) you don't play well. As for the other comment about lumping the ball to cartman i agree to an extent. Yes it would be more effective for balls like that to be played to the likes of Hatch, Armstrong, Purwal for the flick on. But a very key part of getting the ball forward early is to have midfield who can get to second balls first, in that sense if cartman can make the header more difficult for the defender it has a greater chance he wont control the header and we can end up in possession of the ball in midfield where previously it was in defence. So it's not a complete lost cause.

I'm happy with the football we play, we get the ball forward quickly and get teams on the back foot, we also use set pieces to our advantage very well (Playoff being a great example) using our height and strength. Reminds me of something Hansen said on MotD before the negative sod retired 'it's easy to like arsenal and admire their style of play.... because they don't win anything'. I'd much rather we played football that was effective than pretty and by the looks of it 2 promotions in 3 years and 1st, 2nd and 2nd finishes we're very effective.

As for the comments on style being similar to us under Penny, i agree, same format 4-4-2; good wingers, two work hard style CM's. Only thing missing is, I don't think we've ever had another Foster (admittedly Dan Burn was good at this for a young lad). His composure on the ball to pass out of defense was unreal, one of the best ball playing CB's I've seen for Darlo. Saying that I'm very happy with White dominating in the air and Hunter playing sweeper with his pace.

[m62exile]

We struggled in February in March with that bad spell but still picked up 12 points out of 6 games in both months. Unfortunately Salford just kept relentlessly winning.

Also in that spell we made some really simple defensive and goalkeeping errors and then panicked a bit to try and resolve it, leading to some long ball stuff at times.

The frustration being that the hoofball stuff has become a bit of a tag that a few of our own fans have given us and other teams have taken as fact - hence the "Wimbledon" jokes that have popped up every now and then.

[bertbanger]

getting back to the main point of the thread..........
i reckon the season average will be about 1500

[tdk1]

Think atrocious is a bit unfair. Got to remember this is a team of part time players. I thought Man City were pretty atrocious when they got beat by Burnley and they're on hundreds of thousands a week. There are going to come games in a season for whatever reason (fatigue, wind, pitch condition etc) you don't play well. As for the other comment about lumping the ball to cartman i agree to an extent. Yes it would be more effective for balls like that to be played to the likes of Hatch, Armstrong, Purwal for the flick on. But a very key part of getting the ball forward early is to have midfield who can get to second balls first, in that sense if cartman can make the header more difficult for the defender it has a greater chance he wont control the header and we can end up in possession of the ball in midfield where previously it was in defence. So it's not a complete lost cause.

I'm happy with the football we play, we get the ball forward quickly and get teams on the back foot, we also use set pieces to our advantage very well (Playoff being a great example) using our height and strength. Reminds me of something Hansen said on MotD before the negative sod retired 'it's easy to like arsenal and admire their style of play.... because they don't win anything'. I'd much rather we played football that was effective than pretty and by the looks of it 2 promotions in 3 years and 1st, 2nd and 2nd finishes we're very effective.

As for the comments on style being similar to us under Penny, i agree, same format 4-4-2; good wingers, two work hard style CM's. Only thing missing is, I don't think we've ever had another Foster (admittedly Dan Burn was good at this for a young lad). His composure on the ball to pass out of defense was unreal, one of the best ball playing CB's I've seen for Darlo. Saying that I'm very happy with White dominating in the air and Hunter playing sweeper with his pace.

Would agree with most of that - particularly re foster. He Drifted into the opposition half with the ball almost unnoticed at times, and that got attacks started. But I always thought he and miller looked a bit shaky together, and that both were better when they had whI try bullying opponents.

[Andrew Wilkinson]

Dave Penney knows exactly what is needed to succeed in the lower leagues (as assistant manager he last night guided Southend to play off final at Wembley). As Quakerz says Martin Gray has the same philosophy. I was covering Darlo for Gazette when Hodgy left and there was a lot of anger at the way he was treated after what he had done for the club. Penney arrived as an unknown in terms of character - we knew what he had achieved at Doncaster - but he could have faced a lot of resentment. Speaking from personal experience he was a joy to work with. Uncompromising, tough, and with a clear vision of how his team would play, and an ability to get it across to them. Everybody knew exactly what was expected of them, and when they earned his respect he was loyal and had an intelligence and thoughtfulness that his dour Yorkshireness tended to hide. Martin Gray is the same (without the Yorkshire bit!). That's why he worked so well under Penney even though he was close to Hodgy.
I remember Penney telling me a couple of years ago that the problem he faced after leaving Darlo was that he struggled to find characters like Steve Foster, Ricky Ravenhill and Tim Ryan. Gray seems to have done that. It showed in the fightback against Spenny and the way we blew Bamber Bridge away. We'll need more of that next season to keep the fans happy - especially as some of the less committed and harder to please fans (the moaners) will reappear once we are back in town.

[Spyman]

An interesting observation re Dave Penney's Darlo - I wonder how much of Gray's style was shaped during his time alongside Penney?!

At lest he's stopped short of quoting "we need a few more bodies in"

I think the comparison bears a lot of scrutiny. In mifield there is an enforcer and a driver - scott/portas = ravenhill/Kennedy (Although much as I love Leon, it'll take a long time before anyone shifts my man crush on RR). You have two immovable centre halves, out and out wingers, and some players who are regarded as essential because they are versatile - Scott, Mitchell, and galbraith, who you might see as the modern purdie.

There's also a fixation with signing strikers - hatch, Abbott, wright, harty, proudlock, Clarke, foran, Carlton, All signed under dp - there's the total unsentimentality about allowing players to move on, the structured, organised princpile behind our tactics.

Finally, Gray, hatch and white were all involved when we had the rug pulled by Houghton. This promotion felt to me like it was a long time in the making, and that just made it so much the sweeter.

Good read that!

Left backs as well, you can never have too many left backs.

Last season we had Galbraith, Scott, Watson and Weldon who can all play left back, and somebody rumoured the other day that we are after Matty Robson, another left back/winger.

Gray is Penney re-incarnated isn't he?

I loved Penney's style of play, though a small percentage of the crowd (mainly the Hodgy "total football" lovers) moaned incessantly about long ball, and to "get it on the floor and make pretty passes, man". Those same people never wanted Penney in the first place because they hadn't and couldn't get over Hodgies sacking - but regardless of whether what went on was fair or not with the sacking, it wasn't Penney's fault.

As Kev pointed out earlier, you win very little by knocking the ball around in your own half. That's what we did under Hodgson - loads of passing it across the back-line but attacking was often lacking in spark (except that golden 99/00 season).

I much preferred Penney's brand of football, and Gray's. Getting it forward early means we put pressure on the opposition quickly and can play high up.

[divas]

It's all about the high tempo....

[TFDM]

... and moving the ball from back to front.