Liam Hardy signs...

[bertbanger]

id be surprised if were paying more on wages as he wont be on more than Dowson was and Callaghan has also left

[richymidd]

In our situation, we should not be doing anything that is further deteriorating our financial position. If MG is able to bring somebody in by releasing others, juggling stuff around and maintaining the playing budget, fair enough.

If he can't, but he does, and others at the club sanction this kind of operation, then I don't support it.

We have to accept that we don't have much money and we should be doing everything to operate within our means and increase revenue. And if that means we can't improve the squad this week, then we can't improve the squad.

Because of our artificially large fan base, and therefore revenue, at this level I think it was fairly obvious that we were in a position to make some headway through the leagues simply based on a legitimate buying power. As priorities change I hope it is obvious to all that we may have to sacrifice some of that momentum in order to build a more secure and sustainable platform from where we can push on again.

[super_les_mcjannet]

Last fans forum advised Gray had worked within a very small percentage of his budget throughout last few years. No reason to believe this isn't still the case, we know the call for cash is coming from us fans/the owners.

Dave Mills advised at the forum that we had decided to continue with current budget for the season rather than reduce it although we had not returned to Darlington as planned.

I am guessing it's a fine line between cutting the budget and needing to raise less cash or using the full budget and signing a player that may help us win certain games that generate revenue (perhaps a play off Semi or even win the league). A final home game of the season with say 2k fans in could raise an extra 7k than a normal home game or 2 play off games could again raise a significant amount of cash for the club.

It's a fine line and from my understanding we haven't increased budget set at the start of the year for this player.

[richymidd]

On that basis, we could have trimmed the playing budget mid-season and strategically aimed for play-offs and the sell-out extra games?!....

[theoriginalfatcat]

This thread has been interesting.

I hope it works out for both Hardy ..... and of course David Dowson, who's been one of my favourite players since we got bumped down the leagues.

[super_les_mcjannet]

I think it's the unknown of what is going to be required for us to move back to Darlington, spending any money will and should be questioned in these circumstances.

Hopefully we will get answers to this soon (with the BM agreement and finance raise) and we can work out where we are and what is required to move forward. A good FA Cup run would have done wonders this season.

[dfc4me]

Seem to remember at the AGM that MJ said a lot of clubs at this level cut their budgets and offload players as soon as promotion is no longer possible which could well be the case with Buxton. Also the fact that players came up for our match in their cars rather than hire a coach may be a sign of financial problems in which case a small fee for someone who, presumably, is one of their higher earners and would leave for free in the summer anyway would be a good deal for them.

[BaronsCourtQuaker]

Seem to remember at the AGM that MJ said a lot of clubs at this level cut their budgets and offload players as soon as promotion is no longer possible which could well be the case with Buxton. Also the fact that players came up for our match in their cars rather than hire a coach may be a sign of financial problems in which case a small fee for someone who, presumably, is one of their higher earners and would leave for free in the summer anyway would be a good deal for them.

I'm not interested in a good deal for them.

We have players who can cover, were not a premier league team who can carry two players for every place. We have players who can fit in short term. Armstrong can't get in the side and Amar needs game time, plus Cartman and Gaskall hardly miss games.

This just feels like a luxurious signing to me. just as we loose a few players doesn't mean we need to reallocate there wages on other players, maybe we just be frugal and save the money.

Like Darlogramps on the other thread this move is just giving me a nervy feeling.

[onewayup]

There is a lot of ifs and buts with this signing,I'm quite sure Martin gray has a very good understanding of the club's financial stability and being Martin Will act accordingly ,he wouldn't
put the club in any danger he has invested quite heavily in Darlington fc and Will manage astutely
We the fans and owners need to show support for our trust and management team.I believe Martin Will get us up this season and the move back to Darlington Blackwell meadow will materialize this year.onwards and upwards Darlington fc.

[Darlogramps]

From the club's statement: “We have agreed this transfer with the club’s financial position fully in mind. There have been several components to this transfer and other transfer activity this week, which has brought about a cost neutral signing.”

So basically they're keeping it as vague as possible. As far as I can remember, they said something similar about the Cartman signing last season, and then revealed a few months later it had taken us over budget.

This feels very similar.

If Dowson left on a free, and lived in the North East, I'm really struggling to see how paying a fee for a Doncaster-based player who was first choice in his side, and will have more travelling, is "cost-neutral."

I'd love to know what these other "components" are which the club claims brings down the cost of the deal for us.

Put simply, the club's claims don't add up.

[al_quaker]

From the club's statement: “We have agreed this transfer with the club’s financial position fully in mind. There have been several components to this transfer and other transfer activity this week, which has brought about a cost neutral signing.”

So basically they're keeping it as vague as possible. As far as I can remember, they said something similar about the Cartman signing last season, and then revealed a few months later it had taken us over budget.

This feels very similar.

If Dowson left on a free, and lived in the North East, I'm really struggling to see how paying a fee for a Doncaster-based player who was first choice in his side, and will have more travelling, is "cost-neutral."

I'd love to know what these other "components" are which the club claims brings down the cost of the deal for us.

Put simply, the club's claims don't add up.

I don't think the club said anything like that when Cartman signed

http://darlingtonfootballclub.co.uk/nat ... r-quakers/

Perhaps it's something to do with the article posted yesterday thanking a fan for generous financial backing. Perhaps Hardy is on less than Dowson (unlikely, but who knows - I certainly don't). I've no reason to think the club is lying in it's statement.

[Darlogramps]

From the club's statement: “We have agreed this transfer with the club’s financial position fully in mind. There have been several components to this transfer and other transfer activity this week, which has brought about a cost neutral signing.”

So basically they're keeping it as vague as possible. As far as I can remember, they said something similar about the Cartman signing last season, and then revealed a few months later it had taken us over budget.

This feels very similar.

If Dowson left on a free, and lived in the North East, I'm really struggling to see how paying a fee for a Doncaster-based player who was first choice in his side, and will have more travelling, is "cost-neutral."

I'd love to know what these other "components" are which the club claims brings down the cost of the deal for us.

Put simply, the club's claims don't add up.

I don't think the club said anything like that when Cartman signed

http://darlingtonfootballclub.co.uk/nat ... r-quakers/

Perhaps it's something to do with the article posted yesterday thanking a fan for generous financial backing. Perhaps Hardy is on less than Dowson (unlikely, but who knows - I certainly don't). I've no reason to think the club is lying in it's statement.

My mistake - the club's board said nothing at all about the financial details of the Cartman deal, even though it ended up taking us over budget, which they must have known at the time. It was only months after that the club revealed this detail.

But Harrogate RA's manager said: “People are offering silly money for him that will affect the rest of his life,” the manager said. “No one wants to lose him but we are not in a financial position where we can even compete with some of the figures that have been banded about.

“In his heart of hearts he wants to stay at Railway but when you hear some of the money, it’s life-changing.”

While Martin Gray said: “Dave Mills and Martin Jesper deserve a lot of credit too because they have backed the manager. These things don’t happen without the manager being backed financially.” http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/ ... n_Cartman/

As it turned out, we couldn't afford that deal, given it took us over budget.

This deal feels exactly the same. I'm very surprised if anyone doesn't have any questions or misgivings about the Hardy deal. I hope it's all "cost-neutral" but logic dictates it isn't.

[al_quaker]

But as far as I'm aware, they didn't explicitly say that it was cost neutral.

I do have questions about the deal, mainly do we actually need it, and should spending money on another striker (albeit a, apparently, very good one) be top of our priority list, particularly as we were on course to make a loss this season. However, I have no reason to doubt the truth of the statement that this deal is cost neutral.

[theoriginalfatcat]

From the club's statement: “We have agreed this transfer with the club’s financial position fully in mind. There have been several components to this transfer and other transfer activity this week, which has brought about a cost neutral signing.”

So basically they're keeping it as vague as possible. As far as I can remember, they said something similar about the Cartman signing last season, and then revealed a few months later it had taken us over budget.

This feels very similar.

If Dowson left on a free, and lived in the North East, I'm really struggling to see how paying a fee for a Doncaster-based player who was first choice in his side, and will have more travelling, is "cost-neutral."

I'd love to know what these other "components" are which the club claims brings down the cost of the deal for us.

Put simply, the club's claims don't add up.

Gramps, you like to ask others for facts and suchlike when you have differences of opinion on this board - yet you're putting doubt on the club's statement on just a hunch, as you have no more of an idea what these "components" are than I do.

Perhaps Caroline slipped them a couple of grand for the transfer, perhaps there are minimal or no travelling costs. Perhaps Dowson was on a high wage. Perhaps perhaps perhaps.

When the Club say "cost neutral signing" I read that as "cost neutral signing" you suggest they're not being honest - I think that they are.

[SwansQuaker83]

I'm generally surprised ANYONE believes ANYTHING from NLZ.

£15k?! For a player who is 28 and who's contract expires in 3/4 months? I just honestly do not believe that.

The fee for Cartman wasn't even half of that and he is 2/3 years younger who had clubs interested from higher up.

Swansea paid less than that for Angel Rangel... I dont believe we paid that at all

[Darlogramps]

From the club's statement: “We have agreed this transfer with the club’s financial position fully in mind. There have been several components to this transfer and other transfer activity this week, which has brought about a cost neutral signing.”

So basically they're keeping it as vague as possible. As far as I can remember, they said something similar about the Cartman signing last season, and then revealed a few months later it had taken us over budget.

This feels very similar.

If Dowson left on a free, and lived in the North East, I'm really struggling to see how paying a fee for a Doncaster-based player who was first choice in his side, and will have more travelling, is "cost-neutral."

I'd love to know what these other "components" are which the club claims brings down the cost of the deal for us.

Put simply, the club's claims don't add up.

Gramps, you like to ask others for facts and suchlike when you have differences of opinion on this board - yet you're putting doubt on the club's statement on just a hunch, as you have no more of an idea what these "components" are than I do.

It's hardly a "hunch."

Dowson departed on a free. We paid a fee for Hardy. So that is not "cost neutral." And that's before we even get to the issue of wages/player costs (Hardy lives further away than Dowson, so will need to be compensated in some way for travel costs, either through his wages or some sort of expenses).

Those factors we can work out and know for ourselves. So all I'm asking is how is this deal "cost-neutral"? How is the club making back the money to be on an even keel, like it claims?

That's a perfectly reasonable point to make (and others on this board have raised similar questions about the deal, so I'm not the only one). Others are quite happy trusting the club, which is up to them (although if it turns out we can't afford the deal, they can't then complain). But I'm not, given the club has gone over-budget in the past.

It's a point I'd like to make at an AGM or fans' forum - although the club will hide behind "we can't go into the details of the deal." I'm not naive enough to expect answer from the club.

But I'm perfectly entitled to raise the point on this board.

[al_quaker]

There's a difference between asking "how is the deal cost-neutral?" and your original statement that "the club's claims don't add up"

I too am intrigued as to how it all works out. Maybe Hardy is actually on less wages than Dowson? Maybe someone has donated the money for the transfer? Who knows? I certainly don't, and it would be interesting to know. I'm not, however, insinuating that the club is lying in an official club statement.

[lo36789]

Was anybody else opening this hoping it would be an advertising board for a Hardy's local timber merchant or such like...

Can't quite understand a fan putting up money for a transfer when they know there will be a fundraiser shortly to cover the new ground. It is a bit of a weird one I just hope we are saving something on Cartman/Nowakowski's travel perhaps...

[Darlogramps]

There's a difference between asking "how is the deal cost-neutral?" and your original statement that "the club's claims don't add up."

The club's claims don't add up.

Hardy (Doncaster-based + fee) doesn't equal Dowson (North-East-based + left on a free).

So if the club say it's cost-neutral, they need to explain why that is because the information we know does not tally with its assertion that this is a "cost-neutral" deal.

All we're left on is "trust" and the board, as we all know, have gone over-budget in the past.

[super_les_mcjannet]

When we went over budget and signed Cartman this was a calculated decision on extra income that came in from a transfer clause, which we were advised by Martin Jesper at a forum. So we didn't go over budget we increased the budget due to extra income. Seems sensible to me, although granted we could have kept the cash and not bothered with Cartman.

I think if the club board have come out and said it is cost neutral then we have to take this for what it is, no issue with people questioning what this means but I think it's a bit harsh to suggest this is incorrect.

We all know a Forum/fund raising meeting is coming soon so an opportunity to ask at that point or if anyone is that worried contact the DFCSG (members privilege) who are pretty much the Football Club board currently.

[al_quaker]

There's a difference between asking "how is the deal cost-neutral?" and your original statement that "the club's claims don't add up."

The club's claims don't add up.

Hardy (Doncaster-based + fee) doesn't equal Dowson (North-East-based + left on a free).

So if the club say it's cost-neutral, they need to explain why that is because the information we know does not tally with its assertion that this is a "cost-neutral" deal.

All we're left on is "trust" and the board, as we all know, have gone over-budget in the past.

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it can't be true.

You say it can't be cost neutral. The club say it is. I know who I'm believing.

[m62exile]

You may be right you may be wrong, but you can't speculate on the trade off between wages in the way you have and draw the conclusions that you are. The relevant equation here being what we would pay the player vs what he was getting at Buxton. Doncaster is equidistant for him pretty much. Whether it was right to sign any new player or not at this stage is a valid question but it's possible that this hasn't cost an awful lot extra money.

[Ingleby]

Only way this is cost neutral is including Dowson Kneeshaw and Callaghan. Even then probably not quite cost neutral. But who knows when we know so little.

[DarloOnTheUp]

There's a difference between asking "how is the deal cost-neutral?" and your original statement that "the club's claims don't add up."

The club's claims don't add up.

Hardy (Doncaster-based + fee) doesn't equal Dowson (North-East-based + left on a free).

So if the club say it's cost-neutral, they need to explain why that is because the information we know does not tally with its assertion that this is a "cost-neutral" deal.

All we're left on is "trust" and the board, as we all know, have gone over-budget in the past.

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it can't be true.

You say it can't be cost neutral. The club say it is. I know who I'm believing.

And if the club explained HOW this transfer is cost-neutral then you wouldn't have to "believe" anyone, you'd know. And that's all Darlogramps is asking.

[theoriginalfatcat]

To move this on a little, I reckon that Martin Gray must be by far the most experienced manager in this league. He's been in pro football all his working life and must be aware of every trick in the book when it comes to moving players in and out. To me his record in this department is very good, and recently both Gaskell and Cartman have been excellent additions.

Players at this level will want to play for us, Gray will know this and use it to our advantage.

I'm not saying Gray is perfect in every way (FA Cup performances for example) but he doesn't mess about when it comes to the players and team decisions.

In other words, it would seem that we've done some shrewd manoeuvring - and the official statement is there to allay any worries re money that some of us understandably have.

[Darlofan97]

And if the club explained HOW this transfer is cost-neutral then you wouldn't have to "believe" anyone, you'd know. And that's all Darlogramps is asking.

Which is perfectly understandable, but as Darlogramps has already said this information is very rarely released.

Fans can make their own assumptions and question accordingly, but I do fully believe the club on this one.

[al_quaker]

And if the club explained HOW this transfer is cost-neutral then you wouldn't have to "believe" anyone, you'd know. And that's all Darlogramps is asking.

"Put simply, the club's claims don't add up" isn't a question about what the figures are, it's insinuating the club is lying, and is the reason I replied.

If it's cost neutral, the cost of Hardy's transfer and wages must covered by the recent outgoings, and may also be related to the statement about the financial contribution on the OS yesterday. If the club is telling the truth then can it be anything else? Obviously this is just a guess on my behalf, but if it's cost neutral then I'd say that is reasonable. Just because darlogramps doesn't understand how this could possibly be, it doesn't mean the club aren't telling the truth.

[darlodog]

Reading all the conspiracy theories on here makes me laugh, if Hardy scores tomorrow all this conjecture will stop overnight.

[Darlo_Pete]

Reading all the conspiracy theories on here makes me laugh, if Hardy scores tomorrow all this conjecture will stop overnight.

Especially if it's the winner.

[CrazyDarlo]

Reading all the conspiracy theories on here makes me laugh, if Hardy scores tomorrow all this conjecture will stop overnight.

Spot on.