Constructive views on the Blackwell experience

[princes town]

If you can't see from behind the dugouts don't stand there.

When we played at grounds where you couldn't see a thing behind the stand supports I didn't need a cordon to tell me not to stand there. I was about 10 at the time and managed to work that one out.

I don't understand why you are so keen to artificially reduce the official capacity of a ground which we need at that capacity to compete in this division!?

the capacity is wrong if this includes the area in front of the clubhouse. There was no space anywhere else and we shouldn't be building this area into the ground capacity. I'd rather have a good punter experience tbh even if that means bringing this artificial number down.

[al_quaker]

If you can't see from behind the dugouts don't stand there.

When we played at grounds where you couldn't see a thing behind the stand supports I didn't need a cordon to tell me not to stand there. I was about 10 at the time and managed to work that one out.

I don't understand why you are so keen to artificially reduce the official capacity of a ground which we need at that capacity to compete in this division!?

the capacity is wrong if this includes the area in front of the clubhouse. There was no space anywhere else and we shouldn't be building this area into the ground capacity. I'd rather have a good punter experience tbh even if that means bringing this artificial number down.

It's a tricky situation, as at capacity, people have to stand on the clubhouse side, and then their view is perhaps restricted, meaning a bad experience, and perhaps making people less likely to comeback. However, we can't reduce the capacity (much) as then the ground wouldn't be category B standard. The easiest solution (I'd guess) is more capacity (and height) elsewhere in the ground, alongside potential modifications to the position/height of the dugouts. Finances of course are another matter.

[lo36789]

If you can't see from behind the dugouts don't stand there.

When we played at grounds where you couldn't see a thing behind the stand supports I didn't need a cordon to tell me not to stand there. I was about 10 at the time and managed to work that one out.

I don't understand why you are so keen to artificially reduce the official capacity of a ground which we need at that capacity to compete in this division!?

the capacity is wrong if this includes the area in front of the clubhouse. There was no space anywhere else and we shouldn't be building this area into the ground capacity. I'd rather have a good punter experience tbh even if that means bringing this artificial number down.

So we get relegated. all because you want to paint some yellow lines behind the dugout for the rare occasion each season where we will actually be at capacity.

I am expecting things to level out between 2,300 and 2,500. In that scenario people don't have to stand behind the dugouts if they can't see but at least we won't be relegated in March.

That then gives us another year to build the extra structures needed to enable a 3,000 crowd. I don't ever envisage a scenario where we will cordon space off though we need to hit the capacity marks when our status in a division depends on it.

[princes town]

If you can't see from behind the dugouts don't stand there.

When we played at grounds where you couldn't see a thing behind the stand supports I didn't need a cordon to tell me not to stand there. I was about 10 at the time and managed to work that one out.

I don't understand why you are so keen to artificially reduce the official capacity of a ground which we need at that capacity to compete in this division!?

the capacity is wrong if this includes the area in front of the clubhouse. There was no space anywhere else and we shouldn't be building this area into the ground capacity. I'd rather have a good punter experience tbh even if that means bringing this artificial number down.

So we get relegated. all because you want to paint some yellow lines behind the dugout for the rare occasion each season where we will actually be at capacity.

I am expecting things to level out between 2,300 and 2,500. In that scenario people don't have to stand behind the dugouts if they can't see but at least we won't be relegated in March.

That then gives us another year to build the extra structures needed to enable a 3,000 crowd. I don't ever envisage a scenario where we will cordon space off though we need to hit the capacity marks when our status in a division depends on it.

Obviously a key argument league status but sprinting a marathon is extremely dangerous. I do worry about the potential diseconomies of scale that moving to Blackwell will create in respect of facilities, maintenance, fan experience all under a a challenging volunteer set-up. It is going to be extremely difficult. 'Real' ground capacity is one aspect of this problem. The catering also was inadequate for the numbers there. It is difficult to know how crowds will pan out but they are surely going to be less than 3k so we might get away with it for a while until the hoped-for playoffs hit us.

[Feethams 1966]

Someone has mentioned that for rugby purposes there has to be quite a large run off area behind the goal, and someone else said they felt this reduced their experience of being in the tin Shed.
Noptwithstanding these issues, for health and safety purposes I feel the crowd barrier in front of the Tin Shed should be moved forwards a yard or two. That's because a sizeble bottleneck occurred on Monday after the game ended, when a lot of people including a wheelchair user were attempting to funnel through a narrow pinch point in to the Tin Shed to shuffle its length and exit. Progress was reduced to full stops several times, but had pressure been applied there could have been a crush and this is one are where I feel the risk assessment should be revisited. It worried me.

[darlo reborn]

When ground is not segregated even with 3000 in it will be far more comfortable as in the Halifax end they were only 1 deep with spaces.
I was stood opposite the entrance and we were 3 or 4 deep I saw all the goals but not much at the away end in the corner

[lo36789]

for health and safety purposes I feel the crowd barrier in front of the Tin Shed should be moved forwards a yard or two.

I suspect for health and safety reasons the barrier will remain exactly where it is. The risk with a crush barrier is what is the volume behind it not what is in front of it.

[jjljks]

Someone has mentioned that for rugby purposes there has to be quite a large run off area behind the goal, and someone else said they felt this reduced their experience of being in the tin Shed.
Noptwithstanding these issues, for health and safety purposes I feel the crowd barrier in front of the Tin Shed should be moved forwards a yard or two. That's because a sizeble bottleneck occurred on Monday after the game ended, when a lot of people including a wheelchair user were attempting to funnel through a narrow pinch point in to the Tin Shed to shuffle its length and exit. Progress was reduced to full stops several times, but had pressure been applied there could have been a crush and this is one are where I feel the risk assessment should be revisited. It worried me.

I found it refreshing to be able to see the bottom of the goal from Tin Shed thanks to the 'run off' area being bigger than at HP. More concerned about the width of path at Tin Shed which did make it very slow & prone to crush as people tried to leave. Some congestion with queue for toilets and folk trying to link up with friends near the exit. Definite 'pinch point
' there and wondered if it was possible to put exit gates in at far end with access path behind the Tin Shed?

[lo36789]

What I would also say when you look at the plans. There 2 additional planned exits/entrances at the other side which would be what people would use.

Also - I wouldn't expect the same level of segregation which basically from what I can make out every single person was heading towards the same exit?

Given these things are part of a planned development suspect the money will be invested there first rather than adjustments.

[Quakerz]

The dug out problem could become quite a bone of contention with supporters.

They need to be "dug" "out" 2ft or so into the ground, and surely that would help greatly with people's line of sight? Moving them around the ground won't help because they're always going to be in someone's way.

Digging holes and planting them where they are - as others have already suggested - seems to be the best solution, although obviously that's adding even further costs to the development

[H1987]

Bringing the dugouts so the front is in line with where supporters stand would help. You'd have to adjust the fence. That way, at least people could see down the line. Digging them down would help too.

You really have to question who chose that design. They're massive, in the line of sight of so many people and not clear! They weren't exactly cheap, so little excuse for it. Whoever made the decision to order those and place them there really should fix the problem. I'm sure they're probably easily movable at least.

[lo36789]

Whoever made the decision to order those and place them there really should fix the problem.

Perhaps an error of judgement - but to suggest that someone should be personally liable for the adjustments is a bit extreme.

[dickdarlington]

This is a very interesting thread, which i could throw my hat into a lot of things, but most have already been said. Things will improve. We have to keep being constructive and positive at this stage, give the clubs the chance to rectify or justify, and then if nothing positive happens, then we have a right to complain. At the end of the day, we are Customers.

I will however add my tuppence worth regarding the subs benches. They are the height and design for a reason. Namely to provide shelter and protection to the playing staff. Digging them down isn't the simplest solution.

My workaround is to remove the fencing directly behind them, and move them onto the contrete slabs (leaving the front flush with the fence). Then, we place the fence directly behind them to maintain a segregation between the pitch and the supporters. This in turn changes no capacity (because there is sufficient space behind the lost 1m), and ultimately removes and restriction from standing on that side either side of the players benches. A simple, quick and essentially cheap solution (as the only cost required is resource, and possibly a few screws).

[super_les_mcjannet]

Whoever made the decision to order those and place them there really should fix the problem.

Perhaps an error of judgement - but to suggest that someone should be personally liable for the adjustments is a bit extreme.

Yep just needs adding on to the list of things to improve, I am sure it's one of the cheaper things to resolve.

[H1987]

Whoever made the decision to order those and place them there really should fix the problem.

Perhaps an error of judgement - but to suggest that someone should be personally liable for the adjustments is a bit extreme.

I'm simply saying they should be working on resolving it as it's a bit of a self made problem. Not intended as a personal attack of course.

I simply worry if we treat the place as a means to cram as many people in, rather than doing things in a thought out way with forward planning, we just create more expense in the long run.

Agree moving them back would be a bit help, and probably the most cost effective solution for now. There are different designs available though, so I don't agree there's no superior alternative, and digging down is very common. (Hence the name dugout of course). Them not being clear is a poor oversight in my opinion.

[Maurice_Peddelty]

Would we issue the subs with wellies and bucket when it rains?

[theoriginalfatcat]

Digging holes and planting them where they are - as others have already suggested - seems to be the best solution, although obviously that's adding even further costs to the development

Not a big job in the scheme of things. A digger/couple of men/bit of concrete.

[shawry]

People saying that we only have an issue when segregation is needed, thats fine, but we need to make sure its not overlooked, as a further promotion is likely to mean we are segregated at every game surely, and if that is the case it needs to be at the forefront of any further planning requirement.

[Darlofan97]

People saying that we only have an issue when segregation is needed, thats fine, but we need to make sure its not overlooked, as a further promotion is likely to mean we are segregated at every game surely, and if that is the case it needs to be at the forefront of any further planning requirement.

Is it neccesary to segregate against the likes of Forest Green, Dover, Boreham Wood, Bromley, Eastleigh, Southport, Sutton, Braintree, Woking, North Ferriby, Torquay, Solihull, Maidstone etc?

They will bring no more than what Boston or Kidderminster did.

The likes of Wrexham, Lincoln, Tranmere, York I can understand.

[bga]

People saying that we only have an issue when segregation is needed, thats fine, but we need to make sure its not overlooked, as a further promotion is likely to mean we are segregated at every game surely, and if that is the case it needs to be at the forefront of any further planning requirement.

Is it neccesary to segregate against the likes of Forest Green, Dover, Boreham Wood, Bromley, Eastleigh, Southport, Sutton, Braintree, Woking, North Ferriby, Torquay, Solihull, Maidstone etc?

They will bring no more than what Boston or Kidderminster did.

The likes of Wrexham, Lincoln, Tranmere, York I can understand.

Agree with this. Also whilst it is a "chicken and egg situation" just because we now have safety certificate for 3,000 we are not forced to try and sell this number of tickets for any big game are we? I appreciate we would lose some revenue, but the Club could restrict numbers in the Home part of the ground if overcrowding was as bad on Boxing Day as some have indicated on here. I am confident the Club is aware of all these issues and will communicate something before the next home game.

[don'tbuythesun]

I watched Tranmere V north ferriby and they brought 13 fans to a night game!!

[lo36789]

I watched Tranmere V north ferriby and they brought 13 fans to a night game!!

Haha I did see that in Tranmere programme the other day - explains why the attendance was only 4,000ish for that game!

[don'tbuythesun]

And their home ground seems to have a 2,700 capacity in the division above. Intriguing.

[bga]

I watched Tranmere V north ferriby and they brought 13 fans to a night game!!

Slightly off topic but I recall going to watch Darlo at Bristol City on a Saturday in about 1982/83 and there were 6 Darlo fans only in the away end behind the goal plus me and my lad in the Main stand so I guess that was 8 of us!

[lo36789]

Pretty sure I remember it being reported that 4 went to see us play Torquay in the Todd/Staunton season.

[bga]

Pretty sure I remember it being reported that 4 went to see us play Torquay in the Todd/Staunton season.

Even further than Bristol and................oh yes Todd/Staunton!

[Robbie Painter]

Pretty sure I remember it being reported that 4 went to see us play Torquay in the Todd/Staunton season.

I was there that day - absolute nonsense.

[lo36789]

ah right - nonsense that it was reported or nonsense that there was only 4? I have done a quick search for the article but can't find it anyway so might have just completely made it up.

[MCFCDarlo3]

Pretty sure I remember it being reported that 4 went to see us play Torquay in the Todd/Staunton season.

A poster on here I go to games with told me a fabulous story of him going to Northampton in the 80s and he was the only away fan.They sang to him "You`ll see us all outside" ......brilliant!

[Yackley_Quaker]

Pretty sure I remember it being reported that 4 went to see us play Torquay in the Todd/Staunton season.

A poster on here I go to games with told me a fabulous story of him going to Northampton in the 80s and he was the only away fan.They sang to him "You`ll see us all outside" ......brilliant!

Almost right ,though the chant was "We'll all see YOU outside" !!