Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
I think it's important we have a thread about this, as obviously it's important we have some form of feedback. What I do think is important though, is a massive recognition of the hard work by volunteers that has made all of this possible. A huge well done to all concerned, and, for me, it finally felt like a home game in Darlington. That miserable, cavernous arena was never a home, and was much further from the town. The experience of getting to go for a beer in the town and having a short stroll along Grange Road to go to a game is one that will endure in memory, and is priceless, as far as I'm concerned.
Anyway, as predicted earlier, there were a few predictable moans overheard. So, for exiles to read, and indeed the discussion of others, here are my honest reflections. I hope they're taken as constructive, rather than moaning.
It's not big enough. Obvious, we knew it before today anyway, and it won't always be sold out, but it's true. There is the demand, and we need to work quickly to ensure we build on the momentum for the move home. I think this would be best done openly as soon as possible, with fundraising targets and publication of the plans for how the ground could be expanded. It was a little frustrating to see kids who couldn't see what was happening. I've never seen that at HP, and it was obviously mitigated to a great extent by the grass banks, which whilst they didn't officially count to capacity, people did use. They're the future of the club, we have to make it a matter of priority to make provisions for them.
I didn't go myself, but a couple of mates went to the toilets, and both complained the queues were very silly and were gone a long time. We'll need another set of toilets. I think that's clear, and will presumably be covered in plans to expansion.
The bar situation is silly. I stood in front of the clubhouse and walked past after the game. There were around ten people in there, and it's clearly a massive space, where all the tables had been cleared out from. This requires a rethink, and some careful negotiation with the rugby club. The current situation is crackers, all parties could make money, and supporters would use the facilities. It also has toilets, which were off limits to most, which if we resolve the bar issue, could take the pressure off the others.
The dugouts... Which I'm loathe to moan about, given how the money was raised... Are silly. They're unnecessarily tall, deep and frosted. What it caused a vast congestion of people around that side of the pitch craning to see past them. Some left because they couldn't see, which is sad, even if I don't understand that mindset. Lowering them down a step or two would be the obvious solution to me anyway.
I heard grumbles about the cost of food. Frankly, I'd pay 3 quid for a Taylor's pie. Hats off to the club for using a great local business. I'd far rather pay 3 quid for something that's great quality, than 2.50 for frozen rubbish. Tea and coffee stands seemed to be doing a brisk trade and that is good to see. It's all money for the club.
I haven't had a full read yet, but the programme is ace, top quality for this level, and a top souvenir for the day.
The segregation seemed a bit mad... We gave a lot of space to only 250-300 Halifax fans, which exacerbated the problems in the home end. That barrier should have been moved further around. I didn't drive, so can't comment on the car parking situation, but traffic on the roads wasn't bad at all.
Cheers all, Merry Christmas and up the Quakers.
Anyway, as predicted earlier, there were a few predictable moans overheard. So, for exiles to read, and indeed the discussion of others, here are my honest reflections. I hope they're taken as constructive, rather than moaning.
It's not big enough. Obvious, we knew it before today anyway, and it won't always be sold out, but it's true. There is the demand, and we need to work quickly to ensure we build on the momentum for the move home. I think this would be best done openly as soon as possible, with fundraising targets and publication of the plans for how the ground could be expanded. It was a little frustrating to see kids who couldn't see what was happening. I've never seen that at HP, and it was obviously mitigated to a great extent by the grass banks, which whilst they didn't officially count to capacity, people did use. They're the future of the club, we have to make it a matter of priority to make provisions for them.
I didn't go myself, but a couple of mates went to the toilets, and both complained the queues were very silly and were gone a long time. We'll need another set of toilets. I think that's clear, and will presumably be covered in plans to expansion.
The bar situation is silly. I stood in front of the clubhouse and walked past after the game. There were around ten people in there, and it's clearly a massive space, where all the tables had been cleared out from. This requires a rethink, and some careful negotiation with the rugby club. The current situation is crackers, all parties could make money, and supporters would use the facilities. It also has toilets, which were off limits to most, which if we resolve the bar issue, could take the pressure off the others.
The dugouts... Which I'm loathe to moan about, given how the money was raised... Are silly. They're unnecessarily tall, deep and frosted. What it caused a vast congestion of people around that side of the pitch craning to see past them. Some left because they couldn't see, which is sad, even if I don't understand that mindset. Lowering them down a step or two would be the obvious solution to me anyway.
I heard grumbles about the cost of food. Frankly, I'd pay 3 quid for a Taylor's pie. Hats off to the club for using a great local business. I'd far rather pay 3 quid for something that's great quality, than 2.50 for frozen rubbish. Tea and coffee stands seemed to be doing a brisk trade and that is good to see. It's all money for the club.
I haven't had a full read yet, but the programme is ace, top quality for this level, and a top souvenir for the day.
The segregation seemed a bit mad... We gave a lot of space to only 250-300 Halifax fans, which exacerbated the problems in the home end. That barrier should have been moved further around. I didn't drive, so can't comment on the car parking situation, but traffic on the roads wasn't bad at all.
Cheers all, Merry Christmas and up the Quakers.
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Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
The toilet situation was a joke just 5 for the home end males I waited at least 10 mins in que
no food at all on far side was another annoying thing but then where would one go as only mud behind standing barrier
no food at all on far side was another annoying thing but then where would one go as only mud behind standing barrier
Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
Again, I'm sure they're things that will be reflected on and improved. I agree though, there are some legitimate problems that need resolving. I can only comment on what I saw. I'd imagine having no toilets on the far side is an issue too, as you'll then end up with a constant stream of people walking in front of the tin shed to use those loos. Maybe some can go at the other end of the shed too.
Maybe in the summer some kind of semi-temporary food shelter could be erected in the far side, over where the pipe is. I'd imagine temporary structures are possible. It's all a learning experience, and we're fan run, so let's feed it back in a helpful way I think. This stuff is important if we want to build the fan base up again, but it has to be done in a constructive way, in my opinion anyway.
Maybe in the summer some kind of semi-temporary food shelter could be erected in the far side, over where the pipe is. I'd imagine temporary structures are possible. It's all a learning experience, and we're fan run, so let's feed it back in a helpful way I think. This stuff is important if we want to build the fan base up again, but it has to be done in a constructive way, in my opinion anyway.
Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
Echo the above r.e the toilets. The huge toilet queue prior to kick-off also caused a bottle neck as the vast majority of home fans had to pass that corner to get to the tin shed or seated stand.
The other point I would make is the need for some bins down the lane from Grange Road to the turnstiles. There was dozens of bottles and cans lobbed into the bushes as fans finished drinks before entering the ground.
All in all though, a good experience and although not a classic by any means, we got the three points which is the main thing.
The other point I would make is the need for some bins down the lane from Grange Road to the turnstiles. There was dozens of bottles and cans lobbed into the bushes as fans finished drinks before entering the ground.
All in all though, a good experience and although not a classic by any means, we got the three points which is the main thing.
Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
We could stick a fuck load of toilets behind the tinshed. Would take up no viewing space and there's loads of land back there.
The clubhouse was open to all after the game. There was an announcement as such at full time.
I don't think BM feels any closer to town than the Arena to be honest but depends what side of town you're coming from. I used to get train in and it's a 20 Mon walk from the station to the arena. The walk from market Square to BM is similar.
Overall a good day, more toilets definitely needed regardless of a capacity crowd but the ground itself is nice and a good size for our following. Definitely potential to grow as our fanbase (hopefully) does.
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The clubhouse was open to all after the game. There was an announcement as such at full time.
I don't think BM feels any closer to town than the Arena to be honest but depends what side of town you're coming from. I used to get train in and it's a 20 Mon walk from the station to the arena. The walk from market Square to BM is similar.
Overall a good day, more toilets definitely needed regardless of a capacity crowd but the ground itself is nice and a good size for our following. Definitely potential to grow as our fanbase (hopefully) does.
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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.
We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.
Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.
DC
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Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
The main drawback is the difficulty in getting a view. When I took my son to HP I always sat in the seats behind the goal where he could see the game easily. He won't be coming to BM because, he just won't be able to see. We can get there early and get a spot on the fence, but then you can't go get food or go to the toilet because your spot will be gone. This is no surprise of course, that's the way the ground is at the moment but it needs to be a top priority, we can't cut kids off for obvious reasons.
"At a meeting held at the Grammar School on Friday last - Mr Phillip Wood M.A., in the chair - it was resolved to form an Association Football Club for Darlington and neighbourhood. The opinions of those present were so unanimous as to the desirability of this step, that a committee was formed to complete the organisation of the club, and Mr Craven, 17, Garden Street, was appointed secretary pro tem." - The Northern Echo, Monday 23rd July 1883
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Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
You have saved me a post. In fact no further post is needed and this should be sent to the club board. PLEASE DO THIS AS IT WHOLLY ECHOS MY THOUGHTS. This is certainly a good precis of what went wrong today. There is no doubt in my mind that the section behind the dugouts should be closed. If that means reducing the capacity so be it but it makes me sad that some people were denied a REAL customer viewing experience. If I was first timer standing in there I wouldn't come again.H1987 wrote:
It's not big enough. Obvious, we knew it before today anyway, and it won't always be sold out, but it's true.
The dugouts... Which I'm loathe to moan about, given how the money was raised... Are silly. They're unnecessarily tall, deep and frosted. What it caused a vast congestion of people around that side of the pitch craning to see past them. Some left because they couldn't see, which is sad, even if I don't understand that mindset. Lowering them down a step or two would be the obvious solution to me anyway.
I heard grumbles about the cost of food. Frankly, I'd pay 3 quid for a Taylor's pie. Hats off to the club for using a great local business. I'd far rather pay 3 quid for something that's great quality, than 2.50 for frozen rubbish. Tea and coffee stands seemed to be doing a brisk trade and that is good to see. It's all money for the club.
I haven't had a full read yet, but the programme is ace, top quality for this level, and a top souvenir for the day.
The segregation seemed a bit mad... We gave a lot of space to only 250-300 Halifax fans, which exacerbated the problems in the home end. That barrier should have been moved further around. I didn't drive, so can't comment on the car parking situation, but traffic on the roads wasn't bad at all.
Cheers all, Merry Christmas and up the Quakers.
I genuinely hope this hasn't put people off for games where the crowd may not be so big. In short the ground cannot cater for 3000 people period. I donlt care what the FA say but it doesn't. there may be a case also for allowing some standing by the fence for kids in the tin shed to ease the congestion..
The urinals, catering were also unsatisfactory although to be fair the rugby catering staff worked really hard.
This is not a winge but a statement of fact. Other things went really well but there is much to learn.
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Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
Great day and well done all volunteers getting game on. Catering was not great and rugby club staff serving teas were vociferous in blaming football club for situation. Not the partnership and friendliness I hoped for. Walked past empty bar at 2pm when I would have liked a pint. Onwards and upwards. Nice to see BBC covered on look north!
Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
I agree that the viewing experience for those standing along the sides of the pitch was poor if you didnt have a slot on the fence. Trying to watch the game on flat ground with four or five rows of people in front of you was very difficult and i was longing for the grass bank at hp. Probably the worst viewing experience i have had at any ground over the past 4 or five years. I think this was the most commonly expressed gripe that i heard among people. But delighted to be home again and there isnt anything that cant be fixed eventually.
Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
Hopefully the segregation was one of very few.This would allow the crowd to spread out a lot more so it's not four deep and would give us use of the toilets at the other end of the ground.Iwas in the queue for the toilets at half time and the steward on the gate reckoned he had let"between 3 and 4 hundred " people out all complaining they couldn't see anything.
All early days and I'm confident it will all be sorted out very soon.Jesus,it was Ferkin parky though!!!!
All early days and I'm confident it will all be sorted out very soon.Jesus,it was Ferkin parky though!!!!
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Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
Toilet access and viewing will improve for non-segregated games. As essentially we had 350 Halifax fans taking up a quarter of the ground and a full toilet block (as well as 2 turnstiles).
The bar was almost empty at FT, and with a capacity crowd today you do wonder when it will be full.
Unless the Rugby Club stop charging steep prices - which I am sure that they don't charge their members (£4 a pint?!) - then fans will take their money elsewhere and drink in town. Marquee or no marquee.
Seems like the bar was hardly's running to capacity at any point today. Might be an idea to 1) reduce prices & 2) open up bar access to DFCSG members. See what the numbers are like and then go from there.
The bar was almost empty at FT, and with a capacity crowd today you do wonder when it will be full.
Unless the Rugby Club stop charging steep prices - which I am sure that they don't charge their members (£4 a pint?!) - then fans will take their money elsewhere and drink in town. Marquee or no marquee.
Seems like the bar was hardly's running to capacity at any point today. Might be an idea to 1) reduce prices & 2) open up bar access to DFCSG members. See what the numbers are like and then go from there.
Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
Views and toilets are essential. Catering, bars etc are less important.
It was packed today, I arrived 5 mins before kick off, managed to find a spot with a view, albeit I'm 6'2".
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It was packed today, I arrived 5 mins before kick off, managed to find a spot with a view, albeit I'm 6'2".
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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.
We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.
Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.
DC
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Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
Agreed - and hopefully these issues will be alleviated for non-segregated matches. Can't see there being many from now to the end of the season (probably Harrogate & FCUM).Spyman wrote:Views and toilets are essential. Catering, bars etc are less important.
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Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
The seating stand needs to be raised up imo. The near side touch line and across into the penalty area is blocked off from view by the standing fans. Also no good place for disabled fans to view match from. The dugouts could then be placed in front of that stand. Two problems solved.
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Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
Anyone in the seats tell us what the view was like with it being so low and people standing on the reilings each side of the stand? Also, what was the view like in the original seats next to the clubhouse. They should let people stand at the front of the shed... And I agree it would be nice to know what the plans are for expansion at the next two levels... Even if those plans are rough.
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Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
I am in the 2nd back row near the tin shed end in the seated stand and in fairness the view from here is decent enough, all though can't see right in the corners.SwansQuaker83 wrote:Anyone in the seats tell us what the view was like with it being so low and people standing on the reilings each side of the stand? Also, what was the view like in the original seats next to the clubhouse. They should let people stand at the front of the shed... And I agree it would be nice to know what the plans are for expansion at the next two levels... Even if those plans are rough.
Front row seats looked torture although leave those people to discuss that.
Pretty sure the Rugby Club seats had people standing in front and some people stood on the seats to try and see.
Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
I assume there's no standing in front of the shed to allow disabled access.
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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.
We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.
Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.
DC
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Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
Yeah it's marked off with yellow so people can walk past go past in wheelchair etc.Spyman wrote:I assume there's no standing in front of the shed to allow disabled access.
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Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
I'm in row c nearest tinshed. Can't see anything down right wing towards the shed and into the penalty area. Worse view in first two rows apart from those centrally in stand.
Happy to accept it as starting point and because I'm happy to help fund the club to move home but equally as a simple customer wouldn't be satisfied shelling out £250+ for a season ticket with that view.
If there wasn't the money to do a better job that's understandable but if the drawbacks weren't anticipated then that is a bit concerning.
Happy to accept it as starting point and because I'm happy to help fund the club to move home but equally as a simple customer wouldn't be satisfied shelling out £250+ for a season ticket with that view.
If there wasn't the money to do a better job that's understandable but if the drawbacks weren't anticipated then that is a bit concerning.
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Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
My seat allocation is in row B in the middle part of the stand.I was pleasantly surprised with my view of the pitch.Only down side cannot see a thing when corners were being taken on the stand side.Overall I feel it's early days & I am sure the comments will be taken on board.
Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
Regarding views from the seating stand, should the entire front area be marked yellow and another row of crush barriers be added that people must stand behind? (As it is in the shed) This would help that situation? Although obviously there would be a cost, it shouldn't be too high.
The situation with the dugouts is very poor. As I said in the original post I hate to be overly critical of a fan effort, but some more thought should have been put into them. Much smaller, clear dugouts are available. Similarly, digging down a step or two would help resolve some of the viewing issues.
The situation with the dugouts is very poor. As I said in the original post I hate to be overly critical of a fan effort, but some more thought should have been put into them. Much smaller, clear dugouts are available. Similarly, digging down a step or two would help resolve some of the viewing issues.
Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
I don't understand how it can be that much worse than HP when the pitch perimeter is bigger? There are a few things.
- We know that additional work needs to be done. Sounds like facilities may be more immediate than capacity as a priority.
- We can move the segregation, sounds like Halifax had more space than they needed.
- We won't get 3,000 at the next game. Knocking a few hundred off the crowd and more space to spread out will make a big difference.
- The idea of reducing the capacity to account for the dugouts is simply stupid. We only need the 3,000 for the ground grading to suggest we should artificially reduce our ground grading by painting yellow lines is mind boggling.
- 'They' and 'We' has already started being thrown about as to who should fix this. As my old senior manager once said "we usually means not me". There will be a fundraising push to develop things let just hope that folk buy into it, or people take it upon themselves to approach the club with fundraising ideas.
- We know that additional work needs to be done. Sounds like facilities may be more immediate than capacity as a priority.
- We can move the segregation, sounds like Halifax had more space than they needed.
- We won't get 3,000 at the next game. Knocking a few hundred off the crowd and more space to spread out will make a big difference.
- The idea of reducing the capacity to account for the dugouts is simply stupid. We only need the 3,000 for the ground grading to suggest we should artificially reduce our ground grading by painting yellow lines is mind boggling.
- 'They' and 'We' has already started being thrown about as to who should fix this. As my old senior manager once said "we usually means not me". There will be a fundraising push to develop things let just hope that folk buy into it, or people take it upon themselves to approach the club with fundraising ideas.
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Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
Dugouts must be 11 seats at this level which obviously contributes to the size. Also the DFCSG did not but the dugouts - simply handed the cash overH1987 wrote:Regarding views from the seating stand, should the entire front area be marked yellow and another row of crush barriers be added that people must stand behind? (As it is in the shed) This would help that situation? Although obviously there would be a cost, it shouldn't be too high.
The situation with the dugouts is very poor. As I said in the original post I hate to be overly critical of a fan effort, but some more thought should have been put into them. Much smaller, clear dugouts are available. Similarly, digging down a step or two would help resolve some of the viewing issues.
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Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
Good point. £2 for small cool tea is OTT, and making prices too high in my view is counterproductive, as choosing to buy or not buy a snack or drink can become a habit.Darlofan97 wrote: Unless the Rugby Club stop charging steep prices - which I am sure that they don't charge their members (£4 a pint?!) - then fans will take their money elsewhere and drink in town. Marquee or no marquee.
In fact why can't food/drink prices be similar to H.P?
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Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
Standard rugby club prices (sourced from twitter) are £3 a pint and £1.30 for tea / coffee versus £4 & £2 today. If the rugby club try to take us for mugs ultimately it will be counter productive.
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Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
Yeah, I'm talking depth, frame, height and choice of material, along with their location. Clearer, shallow ones are readily available, and as I say, could be set down a step or two. They're very obstructive. I think the only constructive criticism I can have of them if that they should be lowered in future, or built into a stand.Undercovered wrote:Dugouts must be 11 seats at this level which obviously contributes to the size. Also the DFCSG did not but the dugouts - simply handed the cash overH1987 wrote:Regarding views from the seating stand, should the entire front area be marked yellow and another row of crush barriers be added that people must stand behind? (As it is in the shed) This would help that situation? Although obviously there would be a cost, it shouldn't be too high.
The situation with the dugouts is very poor. As I said in the original post I hate to be overly critical of a fan effort, but some more thought should have been put into them. Much smaller, clear dugouts are available. Similarly, digging down a step or two would help resolve some of the viewing issues.
I'm surprised to hear the crowd was only 3,000. You couldn't hear the PA System at all where I was stood. (Really don't care personally) where the heck you'd fit another 299 though... I have no clue!
Didn't have anything to drink, would buy from the Taylor's outlets rather than Rugby club stuff based on the comments above! No one forces you to buy the stuff at the end of the day, but we certainly need to maximise views and facilities like toilets. It was far from a bad experience for me today, but then I'm 6 foot 2 and was early enough.
Last edited by H1987 on Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
In the "away" end obviouslyH1987 wrote: I'm surprised to hear the crowd was only 3,000. You couldn't hear the PA System at all where I was stood. (Really don't care personally) where the heck you'd fit another 299 though... I have no clue!
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Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
Up at the end Halifax had where they were gaps never mind two/three deep.H1987 wrote:I'm surprised to hear the crowd was only 3,000. You couldn't hear the PA System at all where I was stood. (Really don't care personally) where the heck you'd fit another 299 though... I have no clue!
Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
Aye, but I'd say it was overcrowded in a lot of the home end... unsegregated with 3k I think you might still have some people annoyed with their views unfortunately. 3.3 would be bursting at the seams all around.
As someone pointed out the only games liable to be like that for the rest of the season are Harrogate and FC United. Hopefully we'll iron out teething problems over time. We have fantastic volunteers and I'm excited to see it all develop.
As someone pointed out the only games liable to be like that for the rest of the season are Harrogate and FC United. Hopefully we'll iron out teething problems over time. We have fantastic volunteers and I'm excited to see it all develop.
Re: Constructive views on the Blackwell experience
Every extra was a tad expensive for me
£5 - Parking
£3 - Pie
£2 - Drink
I'm no pauper and I paid for all of the above, but I did regard as expensive.
£5 - Parking
£3 - Pie
£2 - Drink
I'm no pauper and I paid for all of the above, but I did regard as expensive.