Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

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dfc1883
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Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by dfc1883 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:22 pm

I found a blueprint of the plans for the stadium that are different to what we currently have, there's more seats, so perhaps these were original plans or upgrade plans?

Either way, it does have the location of the water pipes, and the area that we're not allowed to build on.

It does make interesting viewing and gives us scope to make something at the far end.

http://www.darlofc.co.uk/images/darling ... -plans.pdf

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:33 pm

Correct plans it's from the borough council planning website and was added on here a while ago.

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by Quakerz » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:38 pm

They are the original plans.

The reason that only 1 block of seats has gone in rather than the 2 blocks, is because we did not raise enough money for all the seats - so we went with the minimum requirement.

So permission is already there for 500+ seats. Installing the rest of the seats and pitch improvements would seem to be the most obvious and next target for fundraising.

Hopefully we'll start with that asap.

We do however need more than what is on that blueprint to achieve 4,000 capacity and Category A, so there must be an updated blueprint somewhere.
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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by lo36789 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:42 pm

Quakerz wrote:So permission is already there for 500+ seats. Installing the rest of the seats and pitch improvements would seem to be the most obvious and next target for fundraising.
Agreed.

Doesn't take too much imagination to see the gap that was being referred to about development in the 'away end'.

The gap between pipe and the edge of the pitch is about 75% of the stand which is on those plans (or 150% of the unit which is installed at the moment) but the distance between the pitch fence and the ground perimeter fence is twice as deep.

It's not unreasonable to think that there is space for 750ish seats at that end (if it is a terrace then potentially 1,000 - again half the length twice the depth of tin shed) + another 248 seats adjacent to the current stand.

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by Quakerz » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:09 pm

No way will you get 750 seats at that end, unless the seating is deeper than 6 rows. More like 3-400 seats max.

There only looks to be just over half of the width of the end available before you hit the pipe exclusion zone, we really have next to no room to work with.

Adding another block of seating to the side (300 seats), and putting seating at the end (3-400) seats, might take us to c1,000 seats which is good, but there would be very little increase in overall capacity - at a guess only 200-300. Reason being as that area which is already accounted for 4 men deep hard standing, would only increase to 6 men deep seated.

We really need a terrace at the end, and given we can only work with just over half the pitch width, I think 8 steps like the Tin Shed won't be enough.
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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by lo36789 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:23 pm

I actually think I misinterpreted one of the lines. I thought the dotted line which runs around (behind the dugouts) was the pitch perimeter fence...but looking at the tin shed end it isn't and actually that really does restrict us to 8 steps.

I am looking forward to the next fundraising push if nothing else but to see what the plans look like!

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by Darlofan97 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:39 pm

Something like the terracing that Lancaster has would be great behind the goal. It is about 12 steps deep:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-PG0qrcxHV1g/U ... G_3119.JPG

Obviously it could not run all the way down due to the Water Pipe (probably up to 60-66% of that end) but the good thing about BM is that you get extra room down the sides due to the space needed for rugby.

That stand only runs from touchline to touchline - as opposed to perimeter fence to perimeter fence - so we would be probably looking at something of a similar size as that once you have factored in the extra space down the seating stand end.

Lancaster have a fairly healthy capacity of 3,513, they have 513 seats (in a similar position to where our seating is) and a much smaller tin-shed than us which is only 5 steps deep and does not run the full length of the dimensions of the pitch.

Apart from that they have hard standing (might be stepped once on one side) but that gives me hope that the terracing adds on a fair bit to their capacity.

The terracing would not even have to have a roof (Category A grading states that there must be covered accomodation on at least 2 sides of the ground, which we would have with the tin-shed and 500 seats).

If you add another 250-300 seats + similar terracing + 2 more turnstiles then you would easily break past 4,000 which would get us up to Catergory A, probably pushing somewhere towards the 4,250 mark.

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by Will Smith » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:45 pm

Worth pointing out as well that a lot of existing ground's stands wouldn't pass building regulations and ground grading if they were proposed to be built today.

Take Lancaster for example, there would need to be a larger gap between the pitch and the start of the terrace, the same as the tin shed is now.

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by H1987 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:07 am

Quakerz wrote:No way will you get 750 seats at that end, unless the seating is deeper than 6 rows. More like 3-400 seats max.

There only looks to be just over half of the width of the end available before you hit the pipe exclusion zone, we really have next to no room to work with.

Adding another block of seating to the side (300 seats), and putting seating at the end (3-400) seats, might take us to c1,000 seats which is good, but there would be very little increase in overall capacity - at a guess only 200-300. Reason being as that area which is already accounted for 4 men deep hard standing, would only increase to 6 men deep seated.

We really need a terrace at the end, and given we can only work with just over half the pitch width, I think 8 steps like the Tin Shed won't be enough.
Yes you would. There are 300 in that stand that has been built. Look at the image taken from the drone. You could comfortably fit two of those before the pipe. 200 is smaller than that existing stand. From the plans, you would be able to build to the edge of the penalty area.

Here - this is (roughly) to scale. Image

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by Quakerz » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:23 am

OK, not quite convinced by your drawing, but lets say we can go all the way to the edge of the penalty area and therefore fit 600 seats at that end - if we're using the same seats it's only going to increase overall capacity by around 200 as those seats would occupy any area already occupied with 400 people hard standing.

Extending the main stand by another 300 which is obviously the first job would increase capacity by around 100, as that area is already occupied with around 200 people hard standing.

So overall we would have around 1,200 seats which is good enough for entrance to the league never mind the conference national, but realistically a capacity of 3,600 which is still not good enough for Cat A. Add in spending on the pitch and other bits, and that's a lot of money to spend to not even achieve the next level of ground grading.

The stand and presumably future stands do look large enough to hold bigger banks of seating though, say 9 or 10 rows deep if they exist. Building the equivalent of 4 stands and filling them with the same 6 row seating, and then having to tear them out and spend more money on seating with more rows wouldn't be exactly the most thrifty way of expanding either.

If we expand as per your pic it's not leaving much room to further expand to 4,000 never mind 5,000.

The quickest, most obvious and cheapest way of expanding to 4,000 (including at least 500 seats) is to extend the main stand and build an initially open terrace at the undeveloped end which extends as far as the pipe exclusion zone - and I'm guessing that it needs to be at least 12 steps deep.
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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by DL5 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:33 am

Looks like there's also room for a stand top left corner between the Tin shed and the pipe if needed
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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:40 am

DL5 wrote:Looks like there's also room for a stand top left corner between the Tin shed and the pipe if needed
Terrace would be best in that area I think in terms of cost and adding capacity quickly.

When listening to the Tees interview and other interviews we know the club have plans, whether these need to change slightly after the initial game feedback who knows.

I would imagine we will release the plans on the day we start fundraising as that's when you get the initial interest and blast of support, interesting times.

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by DL5 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:48 am

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
DL5 wrote:Looks like there's also room for a stand top left corner between the Tin shed and the pipe if needed
Terrace would be best in that area I think in terms of cost and adding capacity quickly.

When listening to the Tees interview and other interviews we know the club have plans, whether these need to change slightly after the initial game feedback who knows.

I would imagine we will release the plans on the day we start fundraising as that's when you get the initial interest and blast of support, interesting times.
Yes I think it was all about getting back to the town in a suitable stadium which we have done, on day one it was packed to the rafters so it was put through its toughest test really and I'm sure the moans will be taken as constructive criticism and a few tweaks made if possible.

Then onto the next phase when we can.
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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:49 am

DL5 wrote:Looks like there's also room for a stand top left corner between the Tin shed and the pipe if needed
Yes very little mind... Probably best to extend the tin shed around the corner... Bit of space for a terrace behind the other goal... Wonder whether there's scope to move the existing structures if we could possibly move the pitch forward... I'm thinking this may be an idea in the event that we dont get promoted so off the back of two rounds of fundraising... Not only does this reduce the pipe's impact to just the corners but it may leave room for a stand in front of the clubhouse... That would solve all our problems

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:02 am

SwansQuaker83 wrote:
DL5 wrote:Looks like there's also room for a stand top left corner between the Tin shed and the pipe if needed
Yes very little mind... Probably best to extend the tin shed around the corner... Bit of space for a terrace behind the other goal... Wonder whether there's scope to move the existing structures if we could possibly move the pitch forward... I'm thinking this may be an idea in the event that we dont get promoted so off the back of two rounds of fundraising... Not only does this reduce the pipe's impact to just the corners but it may leave room for a stand in front of the clubhouse... That would solve all our problems
We won't be moving the pitch forward now, the costs of making any changes like this now would be too significant, it is where it is now and we have to work round it.

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by H1987 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:08 am

Not sure which part of that drawing you disagree with? You can do a more accurate one usin the PDF of course, but that's not my job! The pipe line is accurate and if anything there's more than enough room for 3 of those seated jobbies.

Regarding a terrace, that end will need to be allocated to away fans. What is the point in building a deep terrace that is difficult to segregate, so would most likely be given entirely to away fans!? We'd be better off with seats as you can easily segregate halfway along a stand, and it could be adjusted by demand, so we have the maximum available to Darlington supporters. If you build a terrace you'd end up having to give away fans the entire thing, and that'd be less, not more tickets for home fans for most games. Those seats in the diagram would probably take it up to 3,600, then you just have to fit in terracing elsewhere. We need 1,000 seats at some point. That and bringing the tinshed around a bit would take overall capacity to 4K crucially with 1.2k seats. As long as there's plans to expand to 5 (you don't actually have to do it) that's enough for the football league. Furthermore, seated tickets make more money and it allows us to provide for kids. You could even put a corner in between the seated stands.
Last edited by H1987 on Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by H1987 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:10 am

Also, I believe for future grading purposes we need to have 3 of 4 sides covered (which we can't do on the clubhouse side) and we need to provide some seating availability for visiting supporters. So you couldn't build an uncovered terrace.

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by Quakerz » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:20 am

H1987 wrote:Not sure which part of that drawing you disagree with? You can do a more accurate one usin the PDF of course, but that's not my job! The pipe line is accurate and if anything there's more than enough room for 3 of those seated jobbies.

Regarding a terrace, that end will need to be allocated to away fans. What is the point in building a deep terrace that is difficult to segregate, so would most likely be given entirely to away fans!? We'd be better off with seats as you can easily segregate halfway along a stand, and it could be adjust by demand, so we have the maximum available o Darlington supporters. If you build a terrace you'd end up having to give away fans the entire thing, and that'd be less, nor more tickets for home fans for most games. Those seats in the diagram would probably take it up to 3,600, then you just have to fit in terracing elsewhere. We need 1,000 seats at some point. That and bringing the tinshed around a bit would take overall capacity to 4K crucially with 1.2k seats. As long as there's plans to expand to 5 (you don't actually have to do it) that's enough for the football league. Furthermore, seated tickets make more money and it allows us to provide for kids.
I think to enter the football league you have to have 5,000 capacity with 1,000 seats as a starting point don't you? Plus plans to expand to 6,000/2,000.

Perhaps they give you until March of your first season to get to that initial 5,000/1,000.
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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by H1987 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:32 am

According to the EFL guide it is 5,000 with 1,000 seats and demonstrable ability to have 2,000 seats (required within 3 years of being in the league). You need to have 1,000 seats in your first year.

http://www.efl.com/global/appendix1.aspx

I honestly believe seating is a better option long term, and more sustainable as well as practical. We don't want a situation where we have to tear out improvements to build other ones.

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by lo36789 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:45 am

I did it on the PDF, the official blue print and a stand the same size as the one on the blue print doesn't fit behind the goal up to the pipe. There is room for one 75% of the length to fit.

Segregation isn't going to be the norm for a while. Once additional entrances are built (as per plans) there will be more flexibility with where and what gets segregated. If it really came to it you could theoretically segregate for away fans the whole clubhouse side.

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by Quakerz » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:54 am

That's what I thought looking at the PDF. A seated stand the full length of the main stand might not fit. A 75% length one would only give 400-500 seats or so.

Having said that, it'd be nice to achieve 1,000 seats and we might just do that.

Capacity could be pushed past 4,000 by putting some terracing from the Tinshed corner to the pipe, and a similar size/length terrace on the opposite touchline to neatly balance it. The corners could also be filled in, although it would depend on cost of course.
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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by al_quaker » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:06 pm

H1987 wrote:According to the EFL guide it is 5,000 with 1,000 seats and demonstrable ability to have 2,000 seats (required within 3 years of being in the league). You need to have 1,000 seats in your first year.

http://www.efl.com/global/appendix1.aspx
Looks like we'd just about be able to squeeze 1000 seats in, but to get 2000 it looks like we'd have to develop the clubhouse side. Obviously this is a long way off being a realistic concern, but stranger things have happened. Could be a sticking point in the future with the rugby club

EDIT: Or I suppose we could build deeper seated stands where the current seated stand (and future seated stands are), although how much room there is for that to happen I don't know.

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:41 pm

al_quaker wrote:
H1987 wrote:According to the EFL guide it is 5,000 with 1,000 seats and demonstrable ability to have 2,000 seats (required within 3 years of being in the league). You need to have 1,000 seats in your first year.

http://www.efl.com/global/appendix1.aspx
Looks like we'd just about be able to squeeze 1000 seats in, but to get 2000 it looks like we'd have to develop the clubhouse side. Obviously this is a long way off being a realistic concern, but stranger things have happened. Could be a sticking point in the future with the rugby club

EDIT: Or I suppose we could build deeper seated stands where the current seated stand (and future seated stands are), although how much room there is for that to happen I don't know.
Making the seats in this plan deeper would encroach onto the reserves rugby pitch behind.

Given the pipe issue the only option I can think of to achieve the required ground to be in and remain in the football league is to demolish the clubhouse. Our option would then be to build another club away from the ground or one that forms part of a new stand. I can't see the rugby club agreeing to that but who knows. Plus the cost of that would be significant.

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by feethams » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:23 pm

Best idea would be to put more seating on the far side of club house. One block between pipe & tin shed, one block between current seats and open end.

Then if put 8 steps of terrace on the open end around 2/3 of the way across (to the pipe) my figures would be:

Tin Shed 1000
Farside seating 900 (each holds 295?)
Open end terrace 600

I'd give away fans the corner between the tunnel and what would be the new open terrace.

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by lo36789 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:40 pm

SwansQuaker83 wrote:
al_quaker wrote:
H1987 wrote:According to the EFL guide it is 5,000 with 1,000 seats and demonstrable ability to have 2,000 seats (required within 3 years of being in the league). You need to have 1,000 seats in your first year.

http://www.efl.com/global/appendix1.aspx
Looks like we'd just about be able to squeeze 1000 seats in, but to get 2000 it looks like we'd have to develop the clubhouse side. Obviously this is a long way off being a realistic concern, but stranger things have happened. Could be a sticking point in the future with the rugby club

EDIT: Or I suppose we could build deeper seated stands where the current seated stand (and future seated stands are), although how much room there is for that to happen I don't know.
Making the seats in this plan deeper would encroach onto the reserves rugby pitch behind.

Given the pipe issue the only option I can think of to achieve the required ground to be in and remain in the football league is to demolish the clubhouse. Our option would then be to build another club away from the ground or one that forms part of a new stand. I can't see the rugby club agreeing to that but who knows. Plus the cost of that would be significant.
Bit extreme. Already confirmed we have plans for 5,000 and doubt that is gonna involve knocking the clubhouse down!

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by Beano » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:29 pm

As others have already said, the plans for 5,000 already exist.

If so, why can't they be shared for all to see?

I know I'd chuck a few quid in again.

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by Quakerz » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:29 pm

feethams wrote:Best idea would be to put more seating on the far side of club house. One block between pipe & tin shed, one block between current seats and open end.

Then if put 8 steps of terrace on the open end around 2/3 of the way across (to the pipe) my figures would be:

Tin Shed 1000
Farside seating 900 (each holds 295?)
Open end terrace 600

I'd give away fans the corner between the tunnel and what would be the new open terrace.
But only adds up to 2,500 before taking in hard standing, of which there would be 200 in the available 1/3rd of the open end, making 2,700, plus about 100 in between the seats on the seated side, making 2,800, before lastly accounting for existing hard standing all down the clubhouse side, which will be around 900? That's about 3,700ish, or 400 above current capacity of 3,299.

We don't really gain much extra from seated stands only 6 rows deep, when they're replacing hard standing 4 people deep. We're gaining approximately 100 per stand, and 200 (maybe 300) on the 8 step terrace.

If any proposed terrace at the open end was 12 steps deep, then that could add another perhaps 300 or so and just take us over the 4000.
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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by lo36789 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:40 pm

Beano wrote:If so, why can't they be shared for all to see?
They can and suspect they will but probably not just throw them out there just to appease Darlo Uncovered.

They will be published as part of a fundraising drive to get maximum impact - and rightly so.

I suspect in the same way they did it last time;

"If we raise this much we'll do this..., if we raise this much we'll do this...and if we raise this much we'll do this..."

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by Beano » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:43 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Beano wrote:If so, why can't they be shared for all to see?
They can and suspect they will but probably not just throw them out there just to appease Darlo Uncovered.

They will be published as part of a fundraising drive to get maximum impact - and rightly so.

I suspect in the same way they did it last time;

"If we raise this much we'll do this..., if we raise this much we'll do this...and if we raise this much we'll do this..."
This is exactly what I meant.

Now we are actually back in the town, with the large publicity that has drawn, now is the time.

The volunteer staff have done a phenomenal job to get us this far. Now is the time to give them the budget to finish the job.

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Re: Stadium Blueprint with Waterpipe location

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:23 pm

lo36789 wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
al_quaker wrote:
H1987 wrote:According to the EFL guide it is 5,000 with 1,000 seats and demonstrable ability to have 2,000 seats (required within 3 years of being in the league). You need to have 1,000 seats in your first year.

http://www.efl.com/global/appendix1.aspx
Looks like we'd just about be able to squeeze 1000 seats in, but to get 2000 it looks like we'd have to develop the clubhouse side. Obviously this is a long way off being a realistic concern, but stranger things have happened. Could be a sticking point in the future with the rugby club

EDIT: Or I suppose we could build deeper seated stands where the current seated stand (and future seated stands are), although how much room there is for that to happen I don't know.
Making the seats in this plan deeper would encroach onto the reserves rugby pitch behind.

Given the pipe issue the only option I can think of to achieve the required ground to be in and remain in the football league is to demolish the clubhouse. Our option would then be to build another club away from the ground or one that forms part of a new stand. I can't see the rugby club agreeing to that but who knows. Plus the cost of that would be significant.
Bit extreme. Already confirmed we have plans for 5,000 and doubt that is gonna involve knocking the clubhouse down!
Well something has to give... Either the reserves rugby pitch or the club house.

If we need 1000 seats then that means we have to extend the two seated stands on the plans by double... This goes onto the rugby pitch... The other half of that side is redundant for seating because of the pipe and behind the other goal we'd need a terrace wouldnt we??

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