Time to know what the deal is.

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bga
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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by bga » Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:36 pm

lo36789 wrote:Don't think at the point a company do a share issue that they are required to release such information.

Looking through crowdcube in fact I can't find a single company asking for investment has released commercially sensitive information into the public domain. They detail the strategic objectives and have an investors prospectus and that is what a decision is based upon.
Ok but surely the Prospectus would give a clear indication where any revenue would come from so to speak, we don't have any of that information.

bga
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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by bga » Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:43 pm

bga wrote:
lo36789 wrote:Don't think at the point a company do a share issue that they are required to release such information.

Looking through crowdcube in fact I can't find a single company asking for investment has released commercially sensitive information into the public domain. They detail the strategic objectives and have an investors prospectus and that is what a decision is based upon.
Ok but surely the Prospectus would give a clear indication where any revenue would come from so to speak, we don't have any of that information.
Just occurred to me maybe I missed, it but did the Club hold it's AGM after the DFCSG recent AGM? I thought it was timed for after this? Not that the Club accounts for the last year would answer any of the above queries but they might by this time next year!

Fans Lottery Admin
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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by Fans Lottery Admin » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:21 pm

bga wrote:
bga wrote:
lo36789 wrote:Don't think at the point a company do a share issue that they are required to release such information.

Looking through crowdcube in fact I can't find a single company asking for investment has released commercially sensitive information into the public domain. They detail the strategic objectives and have an investors prospectus and that is what a decision is based upon.
Ok but surely the Prospectus would give a clear indication where any revenue would come from so to speak, we don't have any of that information.
Just occurred to me maybe I missed, it but did the Club hold it's AGM after the DFCSG recent AGM? I thought it was timed for after this? Not that the Club accounts for the last year would answer any of the above queries but they might by this time next year!
AGM was going to be held soon after the Supporters group meeting but was postponed with the focus on the move to BM.

It will be scheduled for some time in the new year.

bga
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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by bga » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:22 pm

lo36789 wrote:
wizardofos wrote:It would be good to know the fundamental points of the deal:
- Rental payable now and how it will be reviewed going forward
- Length of lease and break clauses (although is it a lease? As Robbie Painter says, Mike Wilkinson keeps referring to a licence)
- How the lease (licence) could be terminated and with what notice
- The basis of how income (if any) is apportioned to DFC from all other incomes streams after the turnstile
Rent payable - I'm sure at fans forum it was said it was the same as Bishop. We were never officially told what it was at Bishop but I think it was rumoured to be £25k per annum. It was deemed to be commercially sensitive but accepted as such.

Lease - to meet ground grading you either need freehold on land or a lease, I assume we haven't managed to get the first and it is 25years. Again this was mentioned at fans forum and has been said to be too short by a few on here. I am not entirely sure why break clauses need to be shared with the football club fans?

Income - this is the bit that will be challenged. I always thought it was confirmed at the fans forum that basically we keep what we sell. That is why there is the segregated bar as it means revenue streams can be kept separate. Based on what has been seen the rugby club caterers are being used so there is a 'cost' which we will in effect pay the rugby club - again this is where it gets commercially sensitive as potentially discussing the markup that they apply when hosting other events in the clubhouse.

Ever considered that it may have been DFC who set the prices?
Income equals "we keep what we sell" Would be interested in knowing if this includes the pre-booked, and turn up on the day car park which must be a good money earner? I ask because didn't the Rugby club and council pay for the car park?
Surely that is not Commercially sensitive?

bga
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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by bga » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:24 pm

Fans Lottery Admin wrote:
bga wrote:
bga wrote:
lo36789 wrote:Don't think at the point a company do a share issue that they are required to release such information.

Looking through crowdcube in fact I can't find a single company asking for investment has released commercially sensitive information into the public domain. They detail the strategic objectives and have an investors prospectus and that is what a decision is based upon.
Ok but surely the Prospectus would give a clear indication where any revenue would come from so to speak, we don't have any of that information.
Just occurred to me maybe I missed, it but did the Club hold it's AGM after the DFCSG recent AGM? I thought it was timed for after this? Not that the Club accounts for the last year would answer any of the above queries but they might by this time next year!
AGM was going to be held soon after the Supporters group meeting but was postponed with the focus on the move to BM.

It will be scheduled for some time in the new year.
Thanks for clarification

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Robbie Painter
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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by Robbie Painter » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:54 pm

AGM needs 21 days notice. Its very late this year but now move to BM happened it should be called ASAP. Can't really ask fans for more money if we haven't seen last year's accounts.

The car park income breakdown was posted on official site a while ago. Rugby club keep a large % (50?) but they do have a £30k 10 year loan to pay back to council and upkeep of car park surface is their responsibility.

bga
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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by bga » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:32 pm

Robbie Painter wrote:AGM needs 21 days notice. Its very late this year but now move to BM happened it should be called ASAP. Can't really ask fans for more money if we haven't seen last year's accounts.

The car park income breakdown was posted on official site a while ago. Rugby club keep a large % (50?) but they do have a £30k 10 year loan to pay back to council and upkeep of car park surface is their responsibility.

Thanks Robbie I had missed that on the Official site. As you rightly say Club really must hold AGM asap before any further requests for more fund raising.

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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by Undercovered » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:49 pm

Robbie Painter wrote:AGM needs 21 days notice. Its very late this year but now move to BM happened it should be called ASAP. Can't really ask fans for more money if we haven't seen last year's accounts.

The car park income breakdown was posted on official site a while ago. Rugby club keep a large % (50?) but they do have a £30k 10 year loan to pay back to council and upkeep of car park surface is their responsibility.
Rugby club take £1, Darlo take £3 and VAT man takes £1
Image

bga
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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by bga » Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:21 am

Undercovered wrote:
Robbie Painter wrote:AGM needs 21 days notice. Its very late this year but now move to BM happened it should be called ASAP. Can't really ask fans for more money if we haven't seen last year's accounts.

The car park income breakdown was posted on official site a while ago. Rugby club keep a large % (50?) but they do have a £30k 10 year loan to pay back to council and upkeep of car park surface is their responsibility.
Rugby club take £1, Darlo take £3 and VAT man takes £1
Thanks again for clarification.

super_les_mcjannet
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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:33 am

Vat man takes 83p but that's me just being picky with the figures. :lol:

bga
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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by bga » Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:41 am

Your on the ball for NY Day so who gets this other 17 pence! Make it quick I am leaving for Halifax at 12!

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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by Darlo_Pete » Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:55 pm

I very much doubt anything will be forthcoming from the club. They always seem to like to keep things close to their chest.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:56 pm

I was surprised by the strength of feeling about this ("the deal") yesterday at Halifax.

It was the number one talking point for many before and after the game -- the cost of the pies/drinks, who's setting the prices/where's the money going/when will there be info released about what's going on?
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

lo36789
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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by lo36789 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:59 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:I very much doubt anything will be forthcoming from the club. They always seem to like to keep things close to their chest.
That is complete and utter rubbish and you know it.

We are in the period of the greatest transparency there has ever been. It frustrates me that I am falling for your bait...

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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by Beano » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:23 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:I very much doubt anything will be forthcoming from the club. They always seem to like to keep things close to their chest.
That is complete and utter rubbish and you know it.

We are in the period of the greatest transparency there has ever been. It frustrates me that I am falling for your bait...
Correct, Lo, but this is the way it must be as a fan operated entity.

Most of the complaining is done out of fear as we've spent the previous 20 years hovering close to oblivion.

Patience is key now, from fans, but also the volunteers in charge. It will interesting to see where the crowd level settles over the next few weeks as this will dictate where the investment priorities.

If I could ask for anything, it would be to see the plans for 5,000 capacity, as they already exist and I'm intrigued. However, as others have stated, they may be released alongside a funding drive.

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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by D_F_C » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:06 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:I very much doubt anything will be forthcoming from the club. They always seem to like to keep things close to their chest.
That is complete and utter rubbish and you know it.

We are in the period of the greatest transparency there has ever been. It frustrates me that I am falling for your bait...
spot on. I don't get where fans should think that every time the club sneezes we should know about it.

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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by Ingleby » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:50 pm

D_F_C wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:I very much doubt anything will be forthcoming from the club. They always seem to like to keep things close to their chest.
That is complete and utter rubbish and you know it.

We are in the period of the greatest transparency there has ever been. It frustrates me that I am falling for your bait...
spot on. I don't get where fans should think that every time the club sneezes we should know about it.
Yeah why should we know about something as minor as this eh. It's quite significant isn't it really. Maybe we will learn more at the next meeting, maybe not.
For you to insult me, I must first value your opinion.

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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by TDS » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:52 am

lo36789 wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:I very much doubt anything will be forthcoming from the club. They always seem to like to keep things close to their chest.
That is complete and utter rubbish and you know it.

We are in the period of the greatest transparency there has ever been. It frustrates me that I am falling for your bait...
When we had zero visibility into the on-goings at the club, it was because it was owned by chancers and crooks. It was their money (mostly). Now, we have very bad experiences behind us, but we are funding the mistakes ourselves, we are losing personally for every mistake, be it the seats at HP, the Shildon ground last minute change, paying over the odds or being treat badly.

The fans will naturally (and probably rightly) conflate the club dodging questions/being silent with us being given a bad deal, Jesper wasn't happy with the way the negotiations were going and then suddenly a deal was done, what have we given away in that respect?

You've also got to consider that whilst being in the town was massively important, the majority of fans were happy to travel to Bishop, enjoyed the view, the ground and the experience, and would've waited a tad longer to ensure that the RIGHT deal was done. It was not get back at all costs, and should never have been made out in that way.

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don'tbuythesun
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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by don'tbuythesun » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:57 am

I'm really struggling with all "the club" comments. I thought we were fan owned. If you're unhappy with the information youre getting (I'm not) then why not arrange to speak to board members or better still become one. Didn't we just have a vote for boad members? They've carried us a long way in such a short time.

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Robbie Painter
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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by Robbie Painter » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:15 am

TDS wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:I very much doubt anything will be forthcoming from the club. They always seem to like to keep things close to their chest.
That is complete and utter rubbish and you know it.

We are in the period of the greatest transparency there has ever been. It frustrates me that I am falling for your bait...
When we had zero visibility into the on-goings at the club, it was because it was owned by chancers and crooks. It was their money (mostly). Now, we have very bad experiences behind us, but we are funding the mistakes ourselves, we are losing personally for every mistake, be it the seats at HP, the Shildon ground last minute change, paying over the odds or being treat badly.

The fans will naturally (and probably rightly) conflate the club dodging questions/being silent with us being given a bad deal, Jesper wasn't happy with the way the negotiations were going and then suddenly a deal was done, what have we given away in that respect?

You've also got to consider that whilst being in the town was massively important, the majority of fans were happy to travel to Bishop, enjoyed the view, the ground and the experience, and would've waited a tad longer to ensure that the RIGHT deal was done. It was not get back at all costs, and should never have been made out in that way.
I agree with your first two paragraphs but remember we were operating at a loss when playing at HP. We couldn't afford to keep on funding that indefinitely whilst at the same time raising finance for a move back to Darlington. Also we needed to be playing at a ground with suitable grading for this level by March. There really wasn't much alternative (apart from the Arena I guess).

Now we are in then we need to make sure that the basic things like pricing, catering, toilets, etc are satisfactory and work on the longer term issues like stands & achieving a better working relationship with the rugby club. Patience will be required.

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Lawman3
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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by Lawman3 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:32 am

don'tbuythesun wrote:I'm really struggling with all "the club" comments. I thought we were fan owned. If you're unhappy with the information youre getting (I'm not) then why not arrange to speak to board members or better still become one. Didn't we just have a vote for boad members? They've carried us a long way in such a short time.
^What he said^
Never argue with an idiot: The best possible outcome is that you win an argument with an idiot.

TDS
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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by TDS » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:04 am

Robbie Painter wrote:
TDS wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:I very much doubt anything will be forthcoming from the club. They always seem to like to keep things close to their chest.
That is complete and utter rubbish and you know it.

We are in the period of the greatest transparency there has ever been. It frustrates me that I am falling for your bait...
When we had zero visibility into the on-goings at the club, it was because it was owned by chancers and crooks. It was their money (mostly). Now, we have very bad experiences behind us, but we are funding the mistakes ourselves, we are losing personally for every mistake, be it the seats at HP, the Shildon ground last minute change, paying over the odds or being treat badly.

The fans will naturally (and probably rightly) conflate the club dodging questions/being silent with us being given a bad deal, Jesper wasn't happy with the way the negotiations were going and then suddenly a deal was done, what have we given away in that respect?

You've also got to consider that whilst being in the town was massively important, the majority of fans were happy to travel to Bishop, enjoyed the view, the ground and the experience, and would've waited a tad longer to ensure that the RIGHT deal was done. It was not get back at all costs, and should never have been made out in that way.
I agree with your first two paragraphs but remember we were operating at a loss when playing at HP. We couldn't afford to keep on funding that indefinitely whilst at the same time raising finance for a move back to Darlington. Also we needed to be playing at a ground with suitable grading for this level by March. There really wasn't much alternative (apart from the Arena I guess).

Now we are in then we need to make sure that the basic things like pricing, catering, toilets, etc are satisfactory and work on the longer term issues like stands & achieving a better working relationship with the rugby club. Patience will be required.
Yes I do appreciate the urgency, however this is the key, at what cost?
It is what it is as you've said, but the fans only want a good deal, a good view, a fairly priced pint and a great experience which - in time - with feedback and consultation with the fans, can happen.

Neil Johnson
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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by Neil Johnson » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:47 pm

I suppose those entitled to attend the AGM can ask for such answers that can be supplied.

The club could be contacted beforehand, so that they can prepare themselves.

DFCSG contact form is available.

jjljks
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Re: Time to know what the deal is.

Post by jjljks » Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:30 am

Neil Johnson wrote:I suppose those entitled to attend the AGM can ask for such answers that can be supplied.

The club could be contacted beforehand, so that they can prepare themselves.

DFCSG contact form is available.
Totally agree, if the club have notice of questions then no excuse about lack of detail or clarity in answers. :thumbup:

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