Kids In Tin Shed

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marksby9
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Kids In Tin Shed

Post by marksby9 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:48 am

Just wondered what people's thoughts are on kids in the Tin Shed? Last Season started bringing my kids (ages 2 & 4). They are now 3 & 5 and until today never had an issue and were growing to love it.

A considerable number of idiots started on the Nuneaton fans towards the end of the game. With only 2 stewards they couldn't/didn't handle the situation well, but I hold sympathy with them as they got nothing but abuse.

My daughter has left the ground in tears frightened and I'm unsure if she will want to come back. I've reported it to the club. I've had a response saying "Perhaps my kids and I should leave the Tin Shed, until a family area can be facilitied/financed."

Can't help but feel the wrong people are being penalised and "Wanna be Hooigans" are being protected over rule abiding fans. Just wondered if anyone has experienced similar issues?

Gutted about Result too, not a good day!

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by Mr_Tibbs » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:54 am

That's sad to hear.

What's the answer to it - Guardian Angels ready to move in and help stare down these thickheads?

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by TFDM » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:29 am

I'm not a parent so maybe my opinion isn't valid but I would probably say the Tinshed isn't the greatest place in the world for kids of that age. When I started going to football at Feethams I wasn't allowed to stand there until I was 11 or 12. And that was for football league games. I know from speaking to other mates they were similar.

I guess if you are stood between home fans and away fans in what is considered a 'home' end then maybe the answer is to go and stand elsewhere. Maybe if possible just move to another end of the same stand if possible. Personally if I was with a young kind then that's probably what I would do. But I'm not a parent so what do I know.

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by uncovered » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:31 am

This is a difficult one. I think the club does have a small amount of people who follow the club occasionally and love a bit of trouble, you only see them at high profile games normally. They probably react to losing slightly differently to the majority of us. When you throw in unsegregation then you have a little bit of an issue.

In my opinion the Options are:

segregate every match, but that then creates the Boxing Day effect of lack of facilities and restricted viewing for home fans.

We could pay the the police to attend inside the ground.

We could ban those who are causing trouble.

We could ask Gary Neville what he thinks.

We should be able to take our children to a football match and not be worried about their safety. If anybody is physically fighting in the ground then They should receive a banning order. Its also hard to find a balance between all of this. On another thread somebody has discussed the large amount of paid stewards, in this scenario they are needed.

There has always been numb nuts follow the club, I remember being in the tinshed when I was at school and lads were invading the pitch, singing inappropriate songs. But there were always police present and segregation.

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by lo36789 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:42 am

Unfortunately I don't think anyone has really found the answer. As you mention even in FL we had the same issues with police present and segregation.

The right answer isn't that we just accept that it happens. Everywhere in the ground should be safe and appropriate for everyone but at the same time there isn't an instant fix and perhaps that is what the clubs response was getting at.

In the interim if you take the preventative steps whilst the club work on facilitating a longer term solution.
Last edited by lo36789 on Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by TFDM » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:42 am

Not saying our dickhead element don't need dealing with but even if they weren't there I probably wouldn't be standing with young kids at that end. Always potential for a flare up and some dodgy language and opinions which I wouldn't want them to hear.

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by Undercovered » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:54 am

lo36789 wrote:Unfortunately I don't think anyone has really found the answer. As you mention even in FL we had the same issues with police present and segregation.

The right answer isn't that we just accept that it happens. Everywhere in the ground should be safe and appropriate for everyone but at the same time there isn't an instant fix and perhaps that is what the clubs response was getting at.

In the interim if you take the preventative steps whilst the club work on facilitating a longer term solution.

The answer was the advent of "family stands" for this exact reason. Now we don't exactly have a family stand at BM but there are areas in which there is much less chance of this kind of thing happening. The issue is that the tin shed is a better vantage point than most but there are workarounds.
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:17 am

The tinshed should be home fans only... Same as the seated stand is... That doesnt mean segregation but just not in there... It has the potential for that to happen so why create that potential eventuality. I don't condone the scenes we saw at the end but their fans went in there with the intention of winding up our fans...

I would agree with the club here but it's a tough one because of the lack of an alternative... At least we had the temp seats at Bishop which a lot of kids used... Again, no excuse for the idiotic behaviour yesterday but I used to go to Rugby games back home in Wales and stopped going because, whilst stood in a big terrace behind the goal, I was told to stop swearing because of kids who should have been in the family... I only yelled "fcuk sake ref". I like many get emotional at football, I dont go round starting on anyone but I let off a few expletives and the tinshed should remain a place where you can do that.

I wonder how much it would cost to get some temp seats put up. A lot was made about the view of the pitch on boxing day so would a drive to raise money for that type of structure not be worth it?

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:29 am

This is a problem. Previously the temporary seating at H.P would have been ideal for young children - Mark, is it worth standing right at the near end of the Tin shed, away from the centre bit? Or possibly on top of the grass at the other end?
SwansQuaker83 wrote:The tinshed should be home fans only... Same as the seated stand is...
Seems a good idea.


edit - I took my daughter (about 9) to a match at The Arena during one of our dark spells, and it was one the games when it all kicked off.

We were behind the goal at the town end and a large group of lads were telling George Reynolds exactly where he could stick his toilets (up his Arse) - stewards came in to chuck people out but were fought off - more dodgy songs and crowd rebellion continued and at the end of the match there was a pitch invasion and after game sit down protest.

On the pitch I think we had a player sent off too.

Back at home when she was asked how the game was she said "there was a fight, a riot, a pitch invasion and lots of rude songs -- it was great" !!
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Robbie Painter
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by Robbie Painter » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:30 am

Sad state of affairs if we have to make tin shed home fans only. We should be positioning stewards instead to remove the troublemakers.

I have kids exactly the same age and wouldn't take them in the Tin shed but it should be a safe environment. Every area in the ground should be a family environment in terms of violence being unacceptable. Clearly language used will vary around the ground.

Very disappointed by directors response. Personally I would have offered a fulsome apology, promise to attempt to remove offenders in future and offered the family some complementary hospitality at next home game + kids to meet the players

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by onewayup » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:34 am

The seated stand had away fans in yesterday,one was rather loud when they took the lead and again when they scored in the last minute, don't know of any problem with him just an enthusiastic fan getting excited,as we do with our team support. Maybe slightly older fans with more discretion. Would suggest parents with younger children don't use tinshed as bad language is and always as far back to feethams days was a product of over exuberant juveniles ,
I,m sure as soon as the club can it will look to find a solution to the children issue ,nobody wants their child to feel intimidated,or frightened, hope this doesn't stop people from attending our games.

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by Breedon » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:01 pm

I feel like loose segregation is the best bet as suggested. The tin shed being a designated "home end" and away fans being welcome everywhere else will see a lot of them complain, but frankly, I don't care if it makes life easier for the volunteers and our own fans. We've been to our share of open, unterraced grounds on our way up through the leagues and made do. Away fans visiting Darlo can do the same.

As much as I'm in favour of trouble makers being removed and banned, and am really angry that this resulted in a young child being scared to the point of tears (those involved should be made aware of this and shamed where possible), you can't really start banning people for essentially having an argument.

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by Beano » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:24 pm

I don't buy the 'watch somewhere else' line as it will invariable end up with those affected never watching again.

We have a very small minority on morons who regularly embarrass us and spoil it for all. We all know who they are, etc, but until we are prepared to self-regulate and self-police amongst ourselves rather than wait for an unpaid volunteer to do so we will go around in circles.

The best way to gain new fans is for them to be right by the 'hardcore' with their songs, swearing, banter and noise, but not watching criminal damage, violence, or invasions of the pitch. I started going to the Tin Shed as a young teenager, with a couple of mates, and never looked back.

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by dfcgh » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:13 pm

I don't see a problem with making the tin shed home fans only. At Bradford Park Avenue, we were told by stewards that the small stand behind the goal was home fans only even though it was an un segregated game and nobody had a problem with it

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by Maurice_Peddelty » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:02 pm

Robbie Painter wrote:Sad state of affairs if we have to make tin shed home fans only. We should be positioning stewards instead to remove the troublemakers.

I have kids exactly the same age and wouldn't take them in the Tin shed but it should be a safe environment. Every area in the ground should be a family environment in terms of violence being unacceptable. Clearly language used will vary around the ground.

Very disappointed by directors response. Personally I would have offered a fulsome apology, promise to attempt to remove offenders in future and offered the family some complementary hospitality at next home game + kids to meet the players
Please don't make assumptions that it was a response from the Directors unless you know that it is a fact.

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:31 pm

Of the other comparable teams in this league in terms of fan base - like Stockport, Halifax, Kidderminster or FCUM - none would allow a pocket of away fans into their popular end behind a goal with or without a band of stewards/security guards to protect them. Don't think they would ever even consider doing it.
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by marksby9 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:35 pm

Maurice_Peddelty wrote:
Robbie Painter wrote:Sad state of affairs if we have to make tin shed home fans only. We should be positioning stewards instead to remove the troublemakers.

I have kids exactly the same age and wouldn't take them in the Tin shed but it should be a safe environment. Every area in the ground should be a family environment in terms of violence being unacceptable. Clearly language used will vary around the ground.

Very disappointed by directors response. Personally I would have offered a fulsome apology, promise to attempt to remove offenders in future and offered the family some complementary hospitality at next home game + kids to meet the players
Please don't make assumptions that it was a response from the Directors unless you know that it is a fact.
It seems a shame. I'm just a Dad, with his kids, paying to come to a game and a significant proportion of responses to this were I was in the wrong for being in Tin Shed with the kids. We certainly were not behind the goal. We were half way between the corner flag and goal, a place I thought was ok.

Maurice the exact response from Mr Tempest was:
Chris, thanks for your email today we are aware of an incident which our Health & Safety office Graham Reeve has and is looking into it for our post match meeting on Monday. Your excellent description will certainly help.

Moving forward for a 5&3 year old perhaps the Tin Shed is not the best place to stand as the ground develops and money allows we hope to create a family area. Thanks again John Tempest
Director
DFC

I would be happy to have screen shot this but this site won't allow it. I assure you this response is 100% (not that means anything on Social media).

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by comeondarlo » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:47 pm

Breedon wrote:I feel like loose segregation is the best bet as suggested. The tin shed being a designated "home end" and away fans being welcome everywhere else will see a lot of them complain, but frankly, I don't care if it makes life easier for the volunteers and our own fans. We've been to our share of open, unterraced grounds on our way up through the leagues and made do. Away fans visiting Darlo can do the same.

As much as I'm in favour of trouble makers being removed and banned, and am really angry that this resulted in a young child being scared to the point of tears (those involved should be made aware of this and shamed where possible), you can't really start banning people for essentially having an argument.
I think you've got this about spot on here, not for the first time on these types of issues.

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by Maurice_Peddelty » Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:28 pm

marksby9 wrote:
Maurice_Peddelty wrote:
Robbie Painter wrote:Sad state of affairs if we have to make tin shed home fans only. We should be positioning stewards instead to remove the troublemakers.

I have kids exactly the same age and wouldn't take them in the Tin shed but it should be a safe environment. Every area in the ground should be a family environment in terms of violence being unacceptable. Clearly language used will vary around the ground.

Very disappointed by directors response. Personally I would have offered a fulsome apology, promise to attempt to remove offenders in future and offered the family some complementary hospitality at next home game + kids to meet the players
Please don't make assumptions that it was a response from the Directors unless you know that it is a fact.
It seems a shame. I'm just a Dad, with his kids, paying to come to a game and a significant proportion of responses to this were I was in the wrong for being in Tin Shed with the kids. We certainly were not behind the goal. We were half way between the corner flag and goal, a place I thought was ok.

Maurice the exact response from Mr Tempest was:
Chris, thanks for your email today we are aware of an incident which our Health & Safety office Graham Reeve has and is looking into it for our post match meeting on Monday. Your excellent description will certainly help.

Moving forward for a 5&3 year old perhaps the Tin Shed is not the best place to stand as the ground develops and money allows we hope to create a family area. Thanks again John Tempest
Director
DFC

I would be happy to have screen shot this but this site won't allow it. I assure you this response is 100% (not that means anything on Social media).
With respect, the full response from John Tempest does provide a bit more context and clearly the club is going to investigate the situation and if they are as responsive as they were over the match-day experience there is a good chance there be a reaction. To be honest, your summary version did worry me but not so with the full version.

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:15 pm

Did it get any worse than hand gestures and shouting? I made my way to the exit at about the 95th minute... I dont think the club could ban those lads for that, as daft as they behaved, unless someone tells me it kicked off after the final whistle... For me the answer is simple, ban away fans from the Tinshed...

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:23 pm

SwansQuaker83 wrote:For me the answer is simple, ban away fans from the Tinshed...
In a friendly non controversial way :thumbup:
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:24 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:For me the answer is simple, ban away fans from the Tinshed...
In a friendly non controversial way :thumbup:
Yes my use of the word "ban" was a bit aggressive there wasn't it... :lol:

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:33 pm

marksby9 wrote:
Maurice_Peddelty wrote:
Robbie Painter wrote:Sad state of affairs if we have to make tin shed home fans only. We should be positioning stewards instead to remove the troublemakers.

I have kids exactly the same age and wouldn't take them in the Tin shed but it should be a safe environment. Every area in the ground should be a family environment in terms of violence being unacceptable. Clearly language used will vary around the ground.

Very disappointed by directors response. Personally I would have offered a fulsome apology, promise to attempt to remove offenders in future and offered the family some complementary hospitality at next home game + kids to meet the players
Please don't make assumptions that it was a response from the Directors unless you know that it is a fact.
It seems a shame. I'm just a Dad, with his kids, paying to come to a game and a significant proportion of responses to this were I was in the wrong for being in Tin Shed with the kids. We certainly were not behind the goal. We were half way between the corner flag and goal, a place I thought was ok.

Maurice the exact response from Mr Tempest was:
Chris, thanks for your email today we are aware of an incident which our Health & Safety office Graham Reeve has and is looking into it for our post match meeting on Monday. Your excellent description will certainly help.

Moving forward for a 5&3 year old perhaps the Tin Shed is not the best place to stand as the ground develops and money allows we hope to create a family area. Thanks again John Tempest
Director
DFC

I would be happy to have screen shot this but this site won't allow it. I assure you this response is 100% (not that means anything on Social media).
You weren't in the wrong, their behaviour wasn't appropriate. I think what we're saying is aggressive behaviour can happen on terraces like that... shouting, swearing, hand gestures etc... If you dont mind your kids hearing Fs and Cs all game then by all means take them on the Tin shed... But it can be intimidating for kids that young to see and hear a big burley man angrily yell "flatten the cnut" as one example Ive heard at Bishop.

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by marksby9 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:53 pm

SwansQuaker83 wrote:
marksby9 wrote:
Maurice_Peddelty wrote:
Robbie Painter wrote:Sad state of affairs if we have to make tin shed home fans only. We should be positioning stewards instead to remove the troublemakers.

I have kids exactly the same age and wouldn't take them in the Tin shed but it should be a safe environment. Every area in the ground should be a family environment in terms of violence being unacceptable. Clearly language used will vary around the ground.

Very disappointed by directors response. Personally I would have offered a fulsome apology, promise to attempt to remove offenders in future and offered the family some complementary hospitality at next home game + kids to meet the players
Please don't make assumptions that it was a response from the Directors unless you know that it is a fact.
It seems a shame. I'm just a Dad, with his kids, paying to come to a game and a significant proportion of responses to this were I was in the wrong for being in Tin Shed with the kids. We certainly were not behind the goal. We were half way between the corner flag and goal, a place I thought was ok.

Maurice the exact response from Mr Tempest was:
Chris, thanks for your email today we are aware of an incident which our Health & Safety office Graham Reeve has and is looking into it for our post match meeting on Monday. Your excellent description will certainly help.

Moving forward for a 5&3 year old perhaps the Tin Shed is not the best place to stand as the ground develops and money allows we hope to create a family area. Thanks again John Tempest
Director
DFC

I would be happy to have screen shot this but this site won't allow it. I assure you this response is 100% (not that means anything on Social media).
You weren't in the wrong, their behaviour wasn't appropriate. I think what we're saying is aggressive behaviour can happen on terraces like that... shouting, swearing, hand gestures etc... If you dont mind your kids hearing Fs and Cs all game then by all means take them on the Tin shed... But it can be intimidating for kids that young to see and hear a big burley man angrily yell "flatten the cnut" as one example Ive heard at Bishop.

I absolutely accept swearing, rude song, frustration, it's part and parcel and in my experience that can happen any where in a football ground. I have to accept that.

The bit that was over the line was the number of people (young lads mainly) that came from behind the goal, walked 25 yards to where the away fans were, screaming at them to come for a fight and only 2 stewards to deal with the situation. The poor fella (I assume a volunteer) asked the lads to move only to be abused. We all don't need that in our match day experience, but I hope the club can help the fans and those volunteers and not lose fans to it.

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by quakersam » Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:18 pm

marksby9 wrote: I absolutely accept swearing, rude song, frustration, it's part and parcel and in my experience that can happen any where in a football ground. I have to accept that.

The bit that was over the line was the number of people (young lads mainly) that came from behind the goal, walked 25 yards to where the away fans were, screaming at them to come for a fight and only 2 stewards to deal with the situation. The poor fella (I assume a volunteer) asked the lads to move only to be abused. We all don't need that in our match day experience, but I hope the club can help the fans and those volunteers and not lose fans to it.
It's also not really appropriate to go slagging the club off on social media (which I'm led to believe you have found an excuse to do on more than one occasion.
Even worse is to start tweeting Gary Neville about it? What's he got to do with anything? Why get him involved? Primarily, involve those at the football club, we have some great people in charge who are extremely responsive.

I was right in front of where the lads came running down too, we'd just scored and they decided to try and goad the away fans, it happens at every ground down the country.
However, a couple of minutes later Nuneaton obviously scored the winner and they decided to come back down giving it the hand gestures and all (I'm not sure if this situation was antagonised because of the flag incident earlier on in the second half). I think the words screaming at them to come for a fight is way over the top, that did not happen.

I'm not sure what the answer is here, putting away fans and home fans together there is always potential for a flare up especially when a game ended like that yesterday but we don't want to have to segregate for 30-40 away fans.
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by m62exile » Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:28 pm

I'd moved up the other end during the second half although did see the Nuneaton fan try and put his flag up at half time. I thought that was provocative bearing in mind there were a thousand home fans in there so wasn't surprised he upset some people.

However, as someone who stood in the old tin shed and is certainly not a prude I was a bit taken back by the language in there. Does it make you look hard these days to permanently repeat the word "c*nt" as loud as you can as often as you can?

To me, it makes you look like a bit of a dickhead.

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by loan_star » Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:33 pm

quakersam wrote:
Even worse is to start tweeting Gary Neville about it? What's he got to do with anything? Why get him involved?
This! What the fuck were you thinking? Who really gives a s*** what Neville has to say about it? Or were you just fishing for a tweet from someone famous?

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:53 pm

Haway Marksby...! Got that twunt Neville going on Twitter, saying: "only fans we've had trouble with in 3 years. Did thousands of poundsworth of damage and wouldn't pay". Have a dialogue with our club, no need to go crying to Salford's owners!! What will that achieve?

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:03 pm

quakersam wrote:
marksby9 wrote: I absolutely accept swearing, rude song, frustration, it's part and parcel and in my experience that can happen any where in a football ground. I have to accept that.

The bit that was over the line was the number of people (young lads mainly) that came from behind the goal, walked 25 yards to where the away fans were, screaming at them to come for a fight and only 2 stewards to deal with the situation. The poor fella (I assume a volunteer) asked the lads to move only to be abused. We all don't need that in our match day experience, but I hope the club can help the fans and those volunteers and not lose fans to it.
It's also not really appropriate to go slagging the club off on social media (which I'm led to believe you have found an excuse to do on more than one occasion.
Even worse is to start tweeting Gary Neville about it? What's he got to do with anything? Why get him involved? Primarily, involve those at the football club, we have some great people in charge who are extremely responsive.

I was right in front of where the lads came running down too, we'd just scored and they decided to try and goad the away fans, it happens at every ground down the country.
However, a couple of minutes later Nuneaton obviously scored the winner and they decided to come back down giving it the hand gestures and all (I'm not sure if this situation was antagonised because of the flag incident earlier on in the second half). I think the words screaming at them to come for a fight is way over the top, that did not happen.

I'm not sure what the answer is here, putting away fans and home fans together there is always potential for a flare up especially when a game ended like that yesterday but we don't want to have to segregate for 30-40 away fans.
I was near there and walked past them as it was going on... I honestly think if the stewards had just left them nowt but gestures would have happened, it was the old "hold me back boys I'm gonna hit him!" They weren't abusing the stewards as I passed them, the words I heard were "ere I pay my money like everyone else to come here" whether they did or not before I dont know... They were just doing the whole Danny Dyer thing. But I must admit their fans were winding me up... One kept yelling "why aye man!!" in a mock geordie accent, which he seemed to find amusing...

Ban away fans from the shed, make it clear that it's home fans only... if they sneak in and celebrate or start chanting, chuck them out (of the tinshed). I'm sure the police threw a few Blythe fans out of the Tinshed at Bishop last year for antagonising... Simple solution really.

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by quakersam » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:15 pm

LoidLucan wrote:Of the other comparable teams in this league in terms of fan base - like Stockport, Halifax, Kidderminster or FCUM - none would allow a pocket of away fans into their popular end behind a goal with or without a band of stewards/security guards to protect them. Don't think they would ever even consider doing it.
Spot on
QuakerSam ...Once a Quaker, always a Quaker

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