Stockport Match Thread

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by loan_star » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:43 pm

Jameson could probably do with being taken out of the firing line at the moment however he did very well elsewhere in the game. He was under pressure from the No9 for the own goal but he needs to be stronger in those situations.
One thing is for sure, if Ed gets his chance next week and makes a mistake, lets hope some of the more vocal "experts" don't get straight on his back too. Jameson getting called a c**t on twitter was totally out of order.

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by bga » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:45 pm

Darlobaz79 wrote:Just got back to South Bucks from the match. A really good battling performance from the lads against a very good team. Their front 3 were pacy and gave our defenders a hard day at the office. Jameson was obviously at fault for their second but did make 2 great saves in one on one situations. Despite conceding three, I thought the defence did well in particular I thought Hunter played well. The officials were hopeless with a freekick following an offside decision being allowed to be taken in the opposition half one of the most ridiculous decisions. It was a bit surprising to see Gillies taken off at half time presume he is injured although it didn't look like it? Falkingham played well when he came on and Syers and Ferguson certainly added some impetus when they came on too.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Jameson dropped now but all in all a good entertaining game and a great away following and atmosphere.

EDIT: Just saw the goals again, a special mention to Beck who won the free kick for goal one, assisted goal two and scored goal three (at the match I thought it was Brown)!
Jameson is an enigma, certainly to blame for the second goal but also responsible for keeping us in the match with some great saves. I don't know what the answer is, if he is dropped he is unlikely to regain confidence by warming the bench that can surely only come from game time without making mistakes? Gillies was a tactical substitution which I thought worked well. Ferguson had a few good touches when he came on but 15 mins was too short to get a real feel for how good he might be. Team showed great character and fight.

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by Darlobaz79 » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:55 pm

loan_star wrote:Jameson could probably do with being taken out of the firing line at the moment however he did very well elsewhere in the game. He was under pressure from the No9 for the own goal but he needs to be stronger in those situations.
One thing is for sure, if Ed gets his chance next week and makes a mistake, lets hope some of the more vocal "experts" don't get straight on his back too. Jameson getting called a c**t on twitter was totally out of order.
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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:49 pm

Jameson is such a difficult one to call.

He made a dreadful howler, but then got up and made two terrific saves in the game. For that he deserves credit.

But there were other times he looked caught in two minds, and from crosses he didn't look comfortable at all.

As a shot-stopper he's excellent. But there are other areas of his game that need developing.

And bearing in mind, if Jameson does come out of the team, we go with Wilcynzki, who's untested at this level for us. Not saying he wouldn't cope, but going from Northern League to National League North is a big jump.

Not an easy one for MG.

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by Yarblockos » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:52 pm

bga wrote:Jameson is an enigma, certainly to blame for the second goal but also responsible for keeping us in the match with some great saves. I don't know what the answer is, if he is dropped he is unlikely to regain confidence by warming the bench that can surely only come from game time without making mistakes?
Indeed, but bear in mind that we are not a charity home for footballers with low confidence. It's not unreasonable for a football club to expect players to perform to a certain standard in order to keep their place in the team.

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by MCFCDarlo3 » Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:00 pm

Good point.Thomo apart from his goal had a poor game.

Hunter and back 4 solid,keepers on both teams making mistakes.

Like the new lad,looks a footballer once up to speed.

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by m62exile » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:07 am

I was susrprised when Jameson started against Gloucester, i think he's been in terrible form since he first picked up his injury earlier in the season. I feel bad for him, he's a great lad and has the potential to be a good keeper.

Even if we'd wiped the slate clean until the last few games you'd have to say that the two goals at home to Halifax were absolute shockers, the second goal away at Halifax was poor, and today's was a shocker. I'd give the benefit of the doubt for Nuneaton's winner although I wasn't convinced with his positioning.

As Gramps says it's a tough one as the consequences of dropping him are obvious for his confidence but honestly I can't remember a run of errors as long as this or any examples of a keeper playing their way out of form like this.

I'd be happy if he could put half a dozen strong performances in going forward so we can all get over it but there's no sign of that happening at the moment.

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by StevieMardenboro » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:12 am

Thought Stockport deserved to win today but great credit to Darlo for not letting their heads go down. Coming back three times shows real heart. They controlled big parts of the game and I think Brown,Burgess and Hunter were superb in the second half ensuring we held them off for most of the half. Beck was man of the match for Darlo though. Instrumental in all the goals and nearly had another himself.

Jameson actually had a better game today and made two crucial saves but their second goal was shocking. Mind you they could say the same about our first.

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by don'tbuythesun » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:36 am

And fantastic away support 465 of us. I told the evertonians in the car that was like them taking 8,000 away as a percentage of their home crowd.

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:21 pm

Looking at the table now it seems that there will be 6 teams fighting over the 4 play off spots.

Fylde (or Flid :roll: ) are still catchable, but presuming they stay top this suggests to me that K'minster/Chorley/Us/Halifax/Salford and Stockport will be the main contenders for a top 5 finish.

I wonder where Ginge is with all his Statty Stats??
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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by Darlo_Pete » Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:26 pm

Good to see we kept 4th place.

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:11 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:Looking at the table now it seems that there will be 6 teams fighting over the 4 play off spots.

Fylde (or Flid :roll: ) are still catchable, but presuming they stay top this suggests to me that K'minster/Chorley/Us/Halifax/Salford and Stockport will be the main contenders for a top 5 finish.

I wonder where Ginge is with all his Statty Stats??
I'd respectfully disagree.

Tamworth have the same number of points as Stockport (and indeed have won more and scored more than Stockport), while Brackley would go into the play-offs if they win just two of their four games in hand. They're just as serious contenders as the other sides you list.

And most clubs still have 18-20 games to go. We've seen already the league is very changeable and inconsistent, so a good run of form in the 2nd half of the season could see a mid-table side mount a serious late challenge to reach the play-offs.

So I'd say it's a little early to be narrowing the field at this stage.
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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:39 pm

Hmmmm, on reflection - you could well be right.

I'm jumping the gun!!
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by jjljks » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:56 am

Perhaps the goalkeeping problems lie with Mark Bell and his coaching. If he could show PJ how to turn the ball over the bar rather than trying to catch high balls under pressure, and improve on his decision making, perhaps some of the lapses could be eradicated.

PJ did bring off some instinctive saves. Shot-stopping relies on quick reflexes which is something that cannot be coached into a player, so would hope he can learn from his past mistakes.

Team did well to get a point from this game, they seemed outplayed in first half but at least took their chances in the 2nd and never gave up. Great spirit, keep it up and we can be in the play-offs at the end of the season. :thumbup:

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by loan_star » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:28 pm

I think people are over-analysing things here. Yes Jameson is on a bad run but he isnt a crap goalkeeper and he isnt getting a poor standard of coaching, its just down to some bad luck on his part.
When Marco Gabbiadini went on a run of not scoring for the last couple of months of the 99/2000 season people didnt suddenly think he was "shite" or start calling him a "c**t". Every player has a spell where things dont go right. As supporters we should be encouraging which ever player is having a bad run to help them get back to being the player we know they can be.

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by H1987 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:29 pm

Don't think there was a problem with the decision to catch that cross, he just made a hash of it. It wasn't even that dangerous in terms of pace.

He needs dropping for me. Give the new lad a go.

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by m62exile » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:11 pm

loan_star wrote:I think people are over-analysing things here. Yes Jameson is on a bad run but he isnt a crap goalkeeper and he isnt getting a poor standard of coaching, its just down to some bad luck on his part.
When Marco Gabbiadini went on a run of not scoring for the last couple of months of the 99/2000 season people didnt suddenly think he was "shite" or start calling him a "c**t". Every player has a spell where things dont go right. As supporters we should be encouraging which ever player is having a bad run to help them get back to being the player we know they can be.
Loanstar it's great that you're looking on the positives but it's nothing to do with "luck". He's on a bad run of form due to the fact he's made a series of fundamental, basic technical errors.

As a goalkeeper you make snap decisions all the time and when you're doing that you need to be able to trust your technique and be confident with it. Also, as a defender you need to have a level of confidence in your keeper too.

Best case scenario would be for Pete to play his way out of bad form with a good run of solid performances but then again people have been saying that for quite a while now and there's no sign of it happening.

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by Darlogramps » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:15 pm

loan_star wrote:I think people are over-analysing things here. Yes Jameson is on a bad run but he isnt a crap goalkeeper and he isnt getting a poor standard of coaching, its just down to some bad luck on his part.
I don't think you can describe the 2nd goal on Saturday as "bad luck."

It was a mistake and a bad one at that. And Jameson himself would admit this.

It's also undeniable that these mistakes have happened repeatedly in recent weeks. Again, it's not unfair or disloyal to point this out.

However Jameson has also been doing positive things in games, like the 2 excellent saves he made v Stockport. I'm a big supporter of Jameson and have defended him in recent weeks. But blind faith is just as harmful as unnecessary abuse.

I said on another thread it's too simplistic to say "He's in bad form" and "He lacks confidence." Those are generalisations when in fact the situation is more nuanced.

Clearly shot-stopping is a strength in his game (again, look at Saturday as an example). But there are other areas of his game that need working on.

Whether he is dropped from the 1st team while these areas are worked on is a tough decision for MG to make.
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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by Darlo_Pete » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:24 pm

If you have a more than adequate back up keeper, then they should be given a chance in the team. Otherwise what is the point of having him on the bench, if he's not going to get a chance?

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:35 pm

The new signing has to start on Saturday, this is why areMG signed him to step in if Jameson dropped another clanger which he did.Jameson is a great shot stopper without doubt but his handling and decision making is not good enough and in fairness the new lad has to be given a chance.Also you have to feel for our defenders who look gutted when these soft goals are being conceded, all keepers make the odd mistake but sadly that one on Saturday was the final straw.

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by lo36789 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:43 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:If you have a more than adequate back up keeper, then they should be given a chance in the team. Otherwise what is the point of having him on the bench, if he's not going to get a chance?
Usually to cover for injuries and suspensions. Basically how Steve Harper made his entire career.

As for the suggestion that Jameson should be taught to turn things over the bar rather than under it. The players themselves are more likely working on application as opposed technical skillset at this stage of their careers (there will be some honing but not basics as the above).

Given one of our most effective attacking methods has been the long ball into the box and putting the keeper under pressure it is surprising Jameson wasn't more adept to deal with it. He has been dealing with Galbraith crosses and being attacked by Graeme Armstrong, Liam Hatch and Mark Beck since he joined the club!

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by Spyman » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:49 pm

On the subject of Jameson and his quick reflexes and various weaknesses, there was an interesting article by our very own David Preece in the Times on Saturday discussing the Man City keeper and how not all goalkeepers are actually decent shot-stoppers - and that this side of the game can be coached and improved technically.

Maybe we need David Preece as goalkeeping coach!
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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:02 pm

jjljks wrote:Perhaps the goalkeeping problems lie with Mark Bell and his coaching. If he could show PJ how to turn the ball over the bar rather than trying to catch high balls under pressure, and improve on his decision making, perhaps some of the lapses could be eradicated.

PJ did bring off some instinctive saves. Shot-stopping relies on quick reflexes which is something that cannot be coached into a player, so would hope he can learn from his past mistakes.

Team did well to get a point from this game, they seemed outplayed in first half but at least took their chances in the 2nd and never gave up. Great spirit, keep it up and we can be in the play-offs at the end of the season. :thumbup:
This is what I thought about the coaching side, is he getting coached properly NOT his ability... He is a decent keeper just having a rough time at the moment..

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by don'tbuythesun » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:19 pm

I understand why people are querying how Pete's been playing but he does make some great saves, including the two at Stockport. I don't really know what Mark Bell's credentials are but I'm sure if Martin was concerned he'd change things or maybe get him some keeper sessions at Boro or elsewhere.

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by MCFCDarlo3 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:30 pm

Spyman wrote:On the subject of Jameson and his quick reflexes and various weaknesses, there was an interesting article by our very own David Preece in the Times on Saturday discussing the Man City keeper and how not all goalkeepers are actually decent shot-stoppers - and that this side of the game can be coached and improved technically.

Maybe we need David Preece as goalkeeping coach!
Jameson is a lot lot better than Bravo.

Ive not worked out what Bravo is any good at yet! :)

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:59 pm

MCFCDarlo3 wrote:
Spyman wrote:On the subject of Jameson and his quick reflexes and various weaknesses, there was an interesting article by our very own David Preece in the Times on Saturday discussing the Man City keeper and how not all goalkeepers are actually decent shot-stoppers - and that this side of the game can be coached and improved technically.

Maybe we need David Preece as goalkeeping coach!
Jameson is a lot lot better than Bravo.

Ive not worked out what Bravo is any good at yet! :)
Shitty will just throw millions at it as usualImage

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by H1987 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:10 pm

I don't think anyone is doubting his shot stopping ability, but making a few good saves doesn't really help if you're dropping a clanger regularly. (It's almost one a game at this point, which really isn't good enough...)

I don't think he's solely to blame for the defensive shitshow we're experiencing at the moment, clearly some of it is on the defenders too, and we're allowing way too many chances to be created, but you can't blame defenders when the keeper palms it into his own net, or is lobbed frequently because he's out of position, or poorly reads the flight of the ball.

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by loan_star » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:45 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
loan_star wrote:I think people are over-analysing things here. Yes Jameson is on a bad run but he isnt a crap goalkeeper and he isnt getting a poor standard of coaching, its just down to some bad luck on his part.
I don't think you can describe the 2nd goal on Saturday as "bad luck."

It was a mistake and a bad one at that. And Jameson himself would admit this.

It's also undeniable that these mistakes have happened repeatedly in recent weeks. Again, it's not unfair or disloyal to point this out.

However Jameson has also been doing positive things in games, like the 2 excellent saves he made v Stockport. I'm a big supporter of Jameson and have defended him in recent weeks. But blind faith is just as harmful as unnecessary abuse.

I said on another thread it's too simplistic to say "He's in bad form" and "He lacks confidence." Those are generalisations when in fact the situation is more nuanced.

Clearly shot-stopping is a strength in his game (again, look at Saturday as an example). But there are other areas of his game that need working on.

Whether he is dropped from the 1st team while these areas are worked on is a tough decision for MG to make.
Never tried to defend his howlers. However any of the ten in front of him can make a mistake and get away with it but with a keeper he rarely can get away with it. Jameson hasn't become a bad keeper, he's just struggling on some aspects of his game. However my point about people over analysing things is true.
In my opinion Ed should start on Saturday but I just hope that certain people don't get on his back should he drop a clanger too.

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by MCFCDarlo3 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:07 pm

H1987 wrote:I don't think anyone is doubting his shot stopping ability, but making a few good saves doesn't really help if you're dropping a clanger regularly. (It's almost one a game at this point, which really isn't good enough...)

I don't think he's solely to blame for the defensive shitshow we're experiencing at the moment, clearly some of it is on the defenders too, and we're allowing way too many chances to be created, but you can't blame defenders when the keeper palms it into his own net, or is lobbed frequently because he's out of position, or poorly reads the flight of the ball.
I wonder if the defence would look better with a little more protection.County walked through the midfield at times on Saturday,RB was joining in on most attacks with Tez watching him and a tricky winger.
Got tighter when the new lad came on the left hand side.

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Re: Stockport Match Thread

Post by Maurice_Peddelty » Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:56 am

MCFCDarlo3 wrote:
H1987 wrote:I don't think anyone is doubting his shot stopping ability, but making a few good saves doesn't really help if you're dropping a clanger regularly. (It's almost one a game at this point, which really isn't good enough...)

I don't think he's solely to blame for the defensive shitshow we're experiencing at the moment, clearly some of it is on the defenders too, and we're allowing way too many chances to be created, but you can't blame defenders when the keeper palms it into his own net, or is lobbed frequently because he's out of position, or poorly reads the flight of the ball.
I wonder if the defence would look better with a little more protection.County walked through the midfield at times on Saturday,RB was joining in on most attacks with Tez watching him and a tricky winger.
Got tighter when the new lad came on the left hand side.
From where I was standing, from the start of the 2nd half when Falkingham had come on for Gillies, it seemed to me that we were playing 4-3-1-2 with Thommo sat behind the front two (either that or Thommo had lost his shape) but the middle three seemed to be skewed over to the right, which offered no protection to Tez. As you say, that was sorted when Ferguson got on the pitch.

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