Once the dust settles...

[real_darlo_85]

A fantastic achievement that we have stayed up, considering the absolutely dire position we were left in after Gowling was sacked. Well done to Watson and Mitchell and the players for stepping in and stepping up and producing a magnificent run of results and retaining our National League North place!

However, there is a key question to ask heading towards the close season. I think it's imperative that the board are absolutely clear to us before any BtB about the actual position the club is in to avoid a repeat of any malaise or disappointment before next season starts. Be honest about the expectations and can these be achieved. Are we capable of aiming for promotion/play-offs or does this depend on stadium facilities? If so does this have a bearing on whether SW wants to stay? etc. There is no point planning for next season without a plan and we have seen what happens to a degree when it feels like some decisions have been done without proper thought or direction.

Just avoiding relegation, this season was overall poor and almost a complete disaster. We don't want a repeat of this next season!

[Spyman]

A fantastic achievement that we have stayed up, considering the absolutely dire position we were left in after Gowling was sacked. Well done to Watson and Mitchell and the players for stepping in and stepping up and producing a magnificent run of results and retaining our National League North place!

However, there is a key question to ask heading towards the close season. I think it's imperative that the board are absolutely clear to us before any BtB about the actual position the club is in to avoid a repeat of any malaise or disappointment before next season starts. Be honest about the expectations and can these be achieved. Are we capable of aiming for promotion/play-offs or does this depend on stadium facilities? If so does this have a bearing on whether SW wants to stay? etc. There is no point planning for next season without a plan and we have seen what happens to a degree when it feels like some decisions have been done without proper thought or direction.

Just avoiding relegation, this season was overall poor and almost a complete disaster. We don't want a repeat of this next season!

I agree with musch of that, but in a funny way, despite this season being a bit of a disaster overall, the positivity we're ending this season with as a result of our great escape could put us in a better place going into next season than last year's utterly dismal end to the campaign.

While its important that expectations are managed, what has been shown is that its possible to build a very competitive side with the sort of budget our ownership model has provided. Our form over the last couple of months would have us comfortably in the play-offs if extended over a full season - obviously its not as simple as that and I'm sure Watson and Mitchell used adversity to motivate the players to get the results we needed, but I do think if we strengthen a few key areas and add a bit more depth to the squad we can certainly expect a much better season ahead with the right management team in place.

[super_les_mcjannet]

Alfreton, Curzon and even Tamworth (had momentum) are all up there and generally our budget should be similar to above those clubs. Good manager, good squad and good luck then it looks possible to me but certainly not easy.

We can get in the playoffs and then anything can happen. Now ground work would be a cost but the fans have shown previously that they are willing to put money in and not expect it back short term (DFCSG community share options previous).

I think we would come straight back down if ever promoted with our current finances, however that's football and if that happens then so be it.

[Heaton out]

I also agree with much of the above,

Regrading BTB and expectations, after listening to the SW interview after the match, I feel he would only intend stay if our intentions are to challenge for the play offs etc, for that reason I cant see DJ or anyone else coming out saying we cant compete budget wise, it will certainly need to have a much more positive spin on it this year and we should all start off feeling hopefully for the season ahead and looking towards another achieving a good BTB total.

[PierremontQuaker03]

I think we need a stadium update. I can understand why we have had no updates recently, to not take the focus away from the job in hand to save us from relegation, but we really need to know what is going on. Is it feasible, when etc. We have just seen Kidderminster relegated, York were close. When we do go up, we need all the building blocks there to push on, otherwise we will struggle to compete. It was great to hear what SW was saying, he was sounding positive about the future.

[m62exile]

This time last season we had a manager behaving like a ten year old who was half way through a nine month sulk. The whole club was dancing on egg shells. We were just finishing off a run that represented one of the biggest spells of underperformance for a decade. He then disappeared for a month after saying he was going to have to have a think about whether he wanted to stay.

Assuming Steve and Terry sign up, we’re in such a better place this time around.

[MB86DFC]

We need to ride this wave of positivity and capitalise on it. Get Watson and Mitchell on new deals and announce the BTB ASAP. Let’s have no more negative “struggling to compete financially” interviews to dampen expectations. If Alfreton and Curzon can reach the playoffs then we can compete on our budget.

Get SW and TM signed up and we will have our biggest BTB yet.

[JE93]

There are certainly things that need to be reviewed, changed and communicated based on this year:

But first of all we need to secure the services of SW and TM. On decent length contracts too. Give them the vote of confidence they deserve and time to build a squad. 2+1 deals would be a good start.

After that...

Internally the board need to review their selection process and interviewing. I wasn't one who was anti-gowling from day one, I was willing to give him a chance. But I have also been involved in interview processed where on the face of it you hire a very articulate, engaging and credible candidate who for whatever reason turns out to be a poor fit. No selection process is perfect, but based on our experience this time, perhaps the club should look at bringing in outside football help during the interview process to ask questions on tactics or training methods. Or perhaps think about how they apply credit / weighting in the process with previous performance in this league weighted more heavily. Hopefully reflecting on this can build a better process for future appointments.

The board need to reflect on the financial position and the impact of one off expenditure (sackings) this season on closing cash position. I also think this includes being really honest with the fans going into next season as to whether there are any ongoing liabilities to previous management teams. And the quantum and timing of any final payments. This will shape where money is being spent next season. You can't differentiate a £ once it's in the bank as to whether it's come from Gate receipts, commercials, BtB etc. If more money is needed to settle any ongoing liabilities and impacts where money is spent next season the club needs to be open and honest about it.

On the flipside I think constant budget talk (board and fanbase) and how that dictates league position really needs to stop. Wherever we get to with BtB for next season I assume our budget will be c. Mid table, ask Tamworth if that was a limiting factor in them winning the league this year. Or was it a limiting factor when AA had us top of the league? Our budget will be midtable. We should be aiming to be within touching distance of the playoffs all season and a little run in one of the cup competition. Do that and it will have have been a decent to a good season. Any more than that and it will have been a great to excellent season.

Based on interviews this year, I do feel like Steve and Terry are focused on winning the next match rather than trying to build a narrative around what can and can't be achieved. With that mentality we can separate the football side from the business side.

We need to further our involvement with Teesside Uni mentioned in the physio's update and look to broaden it by offering students exposure to not just Physio Therapy but thinks like media production, graphic design, sports journalism etc. Things which give students the chance to build their own portfolios, but also hopefully something that will encourage Teesside uni to invest in things like sponsorship of the football club. (Plenty of efl clubs are sponsored by their local universities) we need to be maximising this opportunity, when other commercial avenues are currently limited. More generally we need to ensure commercial opportunities are maximised. The fans have done so much through BtB, that will feel more and more of a strain if other areas aren't maximised.

Finally, we need a genuine update on the ground. The local plan seems to have no space for a football ground. So realistically where are we.

[en passant]

I agree that the way that this season has ended is so much better than it was last year, despite our position in the league being far lower this time around. So what can we do to make the best of this momentum?
The first question is to identify where we want to be in 12 months time. This is not just about the position in the league but where we physically hope to be playing. It is always good to want to get involved in a promotion and to have that as an end result on the pitch, but if the ground where you play will not be suitable to sustain a promotion within the next two years and there is no suitable alternative, would it be worth the hassle of going for it next year only to end up in a worse position than Rushall find themselves as we have limited hopes of ever making Blackwell Meadows fit the ground grading needs of the National League? We have never been in control of the situation at Blackwell and even if it were possible to be allowed to upgrade the ground, would we want to plough even more funds into improving some else's assets? The alternative has always been the much hoped for new stadium that was raised as prospect some time ago. But, as many have observed, the trail has gone rather cold on this possibility. And as circumstances have changed, with political support maybe changing and interest rates making a long term repayment of funds for such an enterprise less attractive, it may be that the chances of this happening are not as strong as they once were.
It is entirely proper to want to expunge the memory of much of the last season and a half of mainly hard times on the pitch but would the best alternative be to go gung ho for a promotion, have the thrill of seeing SW holding a league trophy at the end of next year, only to have to accept a demotion both on and off the pitch the following year because we cannot afford the players to keep us up nor the ground to meet the requirements of the league? So far the history of this club as a fan-owned business has been to steadily work towards a sustainable future where it is not possible to just throw more money at a problem to get what we want. Talk of going for it next year is perfectly fine but we should really be looking ahead to see if we have a plan that can meet the longer term needs of the club if we find a success on the field.

[super_les_mcjannet]

I guess it depends what you mean by "go for it" to me it means getting the best manager available (In theory Watson), giving him the budget that finances allow, so very similar to what has been available.

In the meantime hopefully the club should have had for some time a plan, on what do we do short term if we get promoted in terms of ground and then that longer term plan around away from BM.

Anyhow to be fair to the club they always give an update at the end of the season, so I am happy to await that update on where we are.

As mentioned challenging in the top half of the table and giving cup runs a good go is next seasons football target. But losing £50k last season and then some more no doubt this season, what's the bigger picture of club/finances/ground.

[Darlo_Pete]

I'd like the club to commit that all the btb will go exclusively to building a competitive playing budget.

Last week I spoke to a town planner from Darlington BC. He is well aware of the club needing a new ground, but understandibly he wouldn't elaborate on what is happening. But I take it that negotiations are ongoing. I agree a statement from the club would be very helpful and much needed.

[e4sby]

I'd like the club to commit that all the btb will go exclusively to building a competitive playing budget.

Last week I spoke to a town planner from Darlington BC. He is well aware of the club needing a new ground, but understandibly he wouldn't elaborate on what is happening. But I take it that negotiations are ongoing. I agree a statement from the club would be very helpful and much needed.

It's understandably not understandibly...

Doesn't all of the BTB go towards the playing budget already?

[theoriginalfatcat]

There are some brilliant posts above.

In a nutshell I feel our problems began when we were top of the league and our decision makers (and I'm choosing my words carefully here) "hinted" that we weren't ready for promotion. This then turned into the limiting of expectations mantra that crippled us for a whole year, and nearly sent us down.

Players (or good ones) don't want to be at a team treading water, and neither will good managers.

We've seen this year how the players have knuckled down and got results, and that's because they had a target, they had motivation and of course they had good management. So if Watson stays then we can crack on next season, but not with a twitchy boardroom - and to me that's the problem. I don't know the answer to it though, perhaps properly go for promotion (without jeopardising finances) and then if it happens just give it a go in the higher league.

[en passant]

Players (or good ones) don't want to be at a team treading water, and neither will good managers.

We've seen this year how the players have knuckled down and got results, and that's because they had a target, they had motivation and of course they had good management. So if Watson stays then we can crack on next season, but not with a twitchy boardroom - and to me that's the problem. I don't know the answer to it though, perhaps properly go for promotion (without jeopardising finances) and then if it happens just give it a go in the higher league.

My worry would be exactly as you say in your first statement, if we end up in the situation you suggest in your second paragraph. Getting the promotion knowing that we cannot stay promoted without a suitable ground would rob any manager and players of the motivation to 'give it a go' in the National League.

[theoriginalfatcat]

That's the problem, and it's tricky.

I suppose if we ever got promoted, the motivation would be just to stay out of the bottom four, which would obviously be an achievement in itself, hard but not impossible.

IF Seatgate hadn't occurred, and IF we had got promoted that season, then the same scenario would have happened then. Hmmmm

[Emdubya]

Tell Watson and Mitchell “just go for mid table “ and the would run a mile.If we’re not “going for it” we might as well pack it in now.Promotion has got to be the aim and if it were to happen and we did come down straight away then so be it.We wouldn’t be the first it happened to and those clubs have all seemed to survive.

[theoriginalfatcat]

Well, yeah, this is what I was alluding to really. It's not a good sporting mentality go into anything half throttle, but the situation is a bit more nuanced than that.

The dumbing down of expectations etc last year was a massive mistake but moving on from that, if Steve stays then it's a good sign, because I don't think he would settle for anything that wasn't clearly set out and agreeable.

[Spyman]

Competitive sport is (or should be) about winning every single time. If not, then what's the point? That doesn't mean it should be the expectation, but you can't tell a manager or a player to only try to win half their games.

If we were to go up (can't believe we're seriously having this discussion a couple of days after surviving relegation by the skin of our teeth), then we just hav to deal with the circumstances and give it our best shot. Otherwise whats the point? We might as well pack it all in.

[Darlo_Rob]

I'm sure, unlike those clearly with an agenda against the current board (I'm mainly thinking those on social media), the board will have learnt from this seasons and the end of last seasons mistakes and I'd be surprised if there wasn't some form of apology for those mistakes.

If we can nail down Watson and Mitchell, although we won't be going totally gung ho for promotion, I suspect we'll be aiming for play offs but as others have said above expectations should be tempered a little bit, but not in the ridiculous way the club went about it this time last year.

[Darlofan97]

We ate in to our cash reserves for the 21/22 & 22/23 seasons. I expect 23/24 to be no different given the turbulent nature of the season (sacking AA + DH, then JG & DR). 

As of the end of the 22/23 season, we still retained healthy reserves. However, this is a trend which cannot continue in future seasons, and we still do not know the damage done this season. This is going to put serious pressure on to the playing budget in future years. 

In my opinion, we need to focus on several key areas if we want to maintain a healthy playing budget (without raising ticket prices):

Other Staff Costs: These have significantly increased to £185k as per the 22/23 accounts, equivalent to 46% of our total spend on the playing squad. This is significant and is a larger proportion than previous years. I do think there needs to be a review of roles within the club that simply do not have to be paid. We are, after all, a part-time football club with no offices & no site to operate & manage. Contact time is limited to two, evening training sessions per week, and match-day. Could the club advertise for more voluntary roles to be filled within the club in certain departments? I believe they could.

Academy: The Academy has been open since 2019, is it currently running at a profit, or loss? Student numbers declined in 22/23. We have tried a model of appointing relatively big local names in Tony McMahon and Stephen Elliott, neither have worked in terms of attracting significant numbers. Jarrett Rivers is currently running the Academy, but the side is second-bottom of Division I after being relegated last season. Is this providing benefit & a pathway to the first-team? 

Some may interpret the accounts and explain it is profit-making as Academy income in 22/23 was £37,366 & costs were £30,357, however I don't believe this takes into consideration wages which (I think) are included in management costs. However, it may include all costs as mentioned above, in which case my question has been answered and concludes that the Academy is profit making, but it does depend on how the staffing costs are accounted for.

Player Recruitment: The club has been scolded in the past handing out significant two-year contracts to players who were simply not good enough. Dom Collins, James Caton, Simon Ainge, Jonny Burn, Junior Mondal & now (allegedly) Akwasi Asante. These contracts have eaten a significant amount of the playing budget in the second years of their contracts between 2018 - 2025. These players have not contributed in their second year and we have either tried to desperately loan them out, or pay them off, both of which at cost to the club,

Do the Board have to be smarter with its recruitment policy and only offer two-year contracts in exceptional circumstances whereby the player arrives with a clear injury record, sustained performances at this level & within a certain age-range (i.e. a Mark Beck)? 

Manager Recruitment: Going over old ground, yes, but the appointment of Josh Gowling was a disaster, but it also was one that was very easy to forecast what was going to happen thanks to publicly available information. The underlying data behind his managerial results was worse than the actual results themselves and there are records easily accessible online on the sheer amount of players he used in one season at Hereford (44) and their average age. 

We know underlying data is important, we know that a high squad turnover is not conducive to team spirit & positive results and we know a successful squad - typically - requires some experience. So perhaps we can use additional tools at our disposal to assess managerial suitability, if/when the time comes?

This isn't an "agenda", or a swipe or a dig, rather an attempt to put together something thought-provoking that will hopefully allow us to avoid the mistakes of this season/allow us to move forward as a stronger football club.

[H1987]

In terms of the playing side of things, I’m not sure huge amounts need to be said, but obviously we need to get this management team here for next season. I do think this will happen, but still, it needs confirming.

For me, the stadium issue is a big problem. We haven’t heard anything substantive and it continues to cast a shadow over future progress. This has now reached a point where it feels inappropriate to not update us - properly - on what is going on. I’m not alone in having some reservations about this, and the longer there is no substantive updates, the more a malaise about it grows among skeptics.

If it’s not possible in the short term, there needs to be a discussion on options. Blackwell is rubbish in its present form. It can’t be left as is, and crowds left to dwindle, if we are going to spend another 5… 10… whatever years there. It’s also insufficient for promotion to the National League. I think what I find frustrating in some of the new stadium discussion is over suitability to play in the football league. It’s pie in the sky when we don’t even look to be in much danger of escaping the national league north (upwards), let alone the level above it!

[Ghost_Of_1883]

I think what I find frustrating in some of the new stadium discussion is over suitability to play in the football league. It’s pie in the sky when we don’t even look to be in much danger of escaping the national league north (upwards), let alone the level above it!

If you're going to build a brand new stadium then why would you build one which is inadequate for the level that you aspire to? It would make no sense.

[Quakerlad]

Hopefully a few things will happen after Chester from the board.

1. Announce SW &TM going forward.
2. Immediately then announce BTB with a realistic but stretching aim.
3. Offer some insight and regret at the mistakes made this last 12 months.
4. Talk up whatever budget we may have as being competitive but realistic. Do not talk it down!
5. Give us an honest and transparent as it can be view of where things are with any new ground.

Going forward hopefully get some better communications when we lose and sign players etc and basically just use and build on the amazing turnaround of positivity that the club currently has compared to last close season.

[lo36789]

It’s also insufficient for promotion to the National League.

No it isn't. That was seat gate.

We can be promoted to the National League...we would just need to do some work if we got there.

[we_8_poolie]

Hopefully a few things will happen after Chester from the board.

1. Announce SW &TM going forward.
2. Immediately then announce BTB with a realistic but stretching aim.
3. Offer some insight and regret at the mistakes made this last 12 months.
4. Talk up whatever budget we may have as being competitive but realistic. Do not talk it down!
5. Give us an honest and transparent as it can be view of where things are with any new ground.

Going forward hopefully get some better communications when we lose and sign players etc and basically just use and build on the amazing turnaround of positivity that the club currently has compared to last close season.

Think you’ve got it spot on QL.

[H1987]

It’s also insufficient for promotion to the National League.

No it isn't. That was seat gate.

We can be promoted to the National League...we would just need to do some work if we got there.

Aye, it’s not good enough to stay there, which is what I meant. We are hardly going to be able to pull a new stadium out of our backsides at short notice if we somehow managed promotion.

Given that we haven’t seen a thing, nor have any detail, colour me skeptical on the entire project. Want to be wrong.

[lo36789]

We are hardly going to be able to pull a new stadium out of our backsides at short notice if we somehow managed promotion

We wouldn't need to. If we were promoted any time soon we could update BM.

The changes needed to stay in NL will obviously cost money but they aren't the cost of a new stadium.

There would be some sunk cost but I am sure there would be a way to do it in a way that can be re-used elsewhere if and when the time came.

[H1987]

We are hardly going to be able to pull a new stadium out of our backsides at short notice if we somehow managed promotion

We wouldn't need to. If we were promoted any time soon we could update BM.

The changes needed to stay in NL will obviously cost money but they aren't the cost of a new stadium.

There would be some sunk cost but I am sure there would be a way to do it in a way that can be re-used elsewhere if and when the time came.

See this is another issue because it’s never been confirmed and some of the argument for a new ground is that the rugby club won’t permit *any* expansion.

This is all the more reason we need more information on all of it.

I think there is an entirely serious argument, for example, that if we are likely to be at Blackwell for X number of years while we fund this new development, we should look to do it anyway, if it might improve match day experience, bolster away followings, possibly even bolster home attendances… I had my spot secured a long time before kickoff on Saturday as I expected issues and I wouldn’t have liked to be trying to find a good viewpoint. Felt sorry for anyone navigating the muddy bank.

[theoriginalfatcat]

What an achievement it would be to reach the National League! To get back there as a fan owned club! To get back to where we were before the financial meltdown which was caused by others.

Yes it would be very hard to consolidate, and we would look like the church mouse playing in a tatty spruced up Blackwell Meadows but other clubs have done it.

It’s just with the form we’ve showed this year with S.W. in charge, getting in the playoffs is a realistic aim.

[Yarblockos]

See this is another issue because it’s never been confirmed and some of the argument for a new ground is that the rugby club won’t permit *any* expansion.

Yep, I would take that "won't permit any expansion" claim with a pinch of salt, along with the "primacy of tenure" claim for The Arena. The board have been fixated on a new stadium as the only option for a while, and everything else declared to be impossible. Given the way things have progressed, it would be good to now have an honest discussion on alternatives.