Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

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super_les_mcjannet
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Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:06 pm

So Poole Town are in a similar situation to Darlo, have just got the ground grading for Category B and don't have the 500 covered seats for Category A yet.

However it's been suggested that Poole Town may not be able to take part in the playoffs due to a National League rule but not a Ground Grading Rule.

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/1 ... nal_South/
Bournemouth Echo wrote:According to National League requirements, to qualify for promotion and to participate in the play-offs, clubs must achieve a category B grading and have 500 seats under cover by the March 31 deadline.

However, while this could be a stumbling block as Poole do not have the required number of seats under cover, it is believed this regulation is over and above FA ground-grading rules. Should Poole fall foul of this, it is understood they would appeal.

In 2011, Eastwood Town finished fourth in Conference North but were denied a play-off place as their 500 seats were in three stands and their spot went to Nuneaton, the next team below.
Another Website
http://nonleague.pitchero.com/poole-win ... al-league/

As mentioned previously I did hear that we would be moving the Bishop seats if we make the play offs, but this would need a roof building and all done within a very short space of time.

I am confident the board are probably more aware of this rule than I am and are in discussions with the National League but the Poole situation offered a little more info.

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by quakersam » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:19 pm

From the FA's Grade B grounding documentation:

Note: Clubs may retain membership of Football Conference NORTH/SOUTH provided that they achieve a Category “B” grading and have 250 seats under cover.

To qualify for promotion to the Football Conference Premier Division by winning the respective NORTH/SOUTH Championship and for the club to participate in the promotion play off matches, the ground must achieve a Category “B” Grading together with 500 seats under cover by 1st April in each season. These seats may be in two locations.

Temporary structures are not acceptable for seating to gain promotion or to take part in the promotion play off matches, unless the club can show that it has obtained planning permission and has the detailed plans to construct a permanent covered seated stand, which may form part of the required total number of 500 seats.
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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by al_quaker » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:57 pm

We have planning permission for 500 seats do we not? So we should be OK if we make it?

Seems a strange rule - need category B to compete in the league, but needs to be better than category B to compete in the playoffs.

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by Vodka_Vic » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:31 am

I read the same some months back Al and concluded the same, that we do have planning permission so will be OK.

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by Makka Pakka » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:05 am

quakersam wrote:together with 500 seats under cover by 1st April in each season.
So if the seats, temporary or otherwise are not there by 1st April....?
"At a meeting held at the Grammar School on Friday last - Mr Phillip Wood M.A., in the chair - it was resolved to form an Association Football Club for Darlington and neighbourhood. The opinions of those present were so unanimous as to the desirability of this step, that a committee was formed to complete the organisation of the club, and Mr Craven, 17, Garden Street, was appointed secretary pro tem." - The Northern Echo, Monday 23rd July 1883

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:19 am

Makka Pakka wrote:
quakersam wrote:together with 500 seats under cover by 1st April in each season.
So if the seats, temporary or otherwise are not there by 1st April....?
As we have planning permission in place the rules suggest we could well be ok. Poole Town have no current plans hence why they have a challenge.

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by spen666 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:36 am

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Makka Pakka wrote:
quakersam wrote:together with 500 seats under cover by 1st April in each season.
So if the seats, temporary or otherwise are not there by 1st April....?
As we have planning permission in place the rules suggest we could well be ok. Poole Town have no current plans hence why they have a challenge.

I am not sure what the basis of the challenge would be that would not apply to both clubs equally.

The rule is that clubs have to have 500 seats in place by April 1st and neither Poole nor Darlington do. Having planning permission or not is irrelevant to the rule.

The challenge that I believe Poole are trying to use ( and Darlington could also apply) is that the rule is an anomaly as in every other division you have until 31st March in the season following promotion to comply with new ground grading for the level you are seeking promotion to.

Thus Darlo and Poole and other clubs as long as they meet National League North/ south Grading standards should have until 31 March 2018 to meet National League National standards if promoted

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by Makka Pakka » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:01 am

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Makka Pakka wrote:
quakersam wrote:together with 500 seats under cover by 1st April in each season.
So if the seats, temporary or otherwise are not there by 1st April....?
As we have planning permission in place the rules suggest we could well be ok. Poole Town have no current plans hence why they have a challenge.
But the planning permission is not related to temporary seating. If we had temporary seating in place by 1st April AND planning permission for a permanent solution then clearly ok but it isn't clear if the temporary seating can be brought in later.
"At a meeting held at the Grammar School on Friday last - Mr Phillip Wood M.A., in the chair - it was resolved to form an Association Football Club for Darlington and neighbourhood. The opinions of those present were so unanimous as to the desirability of this step, that a committee was formed to complete the organisation of the club, and Mr Craven, 17, Garden Street, was appointed secretary pro tem." - The Northern Echo, Monday 23rd July 1883

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by Vodka_Vic » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:03 am

Why would the planning permission point be irrelevant if it's mentioned in the rules? Plus, I'm absolutely convinced that the club know about this, hence the plans for the temporary seating. The April 1st thing mustn't be hard and fast otherwise we would have done something earlier. It must obviously be OK to bring our seating in after the 31st March. What hopefully happens, as I think you are alluding to Spen, is that this is applied on a case by case basis.

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by spen666 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:20 am

Vodka_Vic wrote:Why would the planning permission point be irrelevant if it's mentioned in the rules?
As I understand it the rules are the seats must be in place by 1st April 2017. The fact that it is now 3rd April and the club do not meet this.

The planning permission point is irrelevant as that only means it would be possible to count temporary seating that is in place. There was no temporary seating in place.

The rule does not allow temporary or permanent seating not in place at 1st april to be counted.
Plus, I'm absolutely convinced that the club know about this, hence the plans for the temporary seating. The April 1st thing mustn't be hard and fast otherwise we would have done something earlier. It must obviously be OK to bring our seating in after the 31st March. What hopefully happens, as I think you are alluding to Spen, is that this is applied on a case by case basis.

I was not alluding to it being applied on a case by case basis. I am saying this rule is an anomaly within the Ground Grading rules and I understand that Poole are challenging the very existence of the rule. A Challenge that Darlington would I am sure (have to) support. It only applies in relation to Promotion/ play offs from NLN/NLS to NL.

For example Darlington were able to take promotion from NPL to NLN despite Heritage Park not having the necessary facilities and similarily, this year, if they finish in play off places, Spennymoor will be eligible despite ground not yet being up to NLN standards.

The rule sticks out like a sore thumb

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by Vodka_Vic » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:03 pm

Is it a bit of a high risk strategy though Spen? What's to stop National League at the appeal hearing saying "Sorry, we set the rules, you have to stick to them". One has to assume that either a) The club have been briefed by their own lawyers and/or b) The club have been in dialogue with the National League about this.

Regarding Eastwood town a few years ago who were kicked out of the play-offs due to this reason, it would be interesting to find out whether they appealed and were unsuccessful.

Another thing Spen, you say you believe that Poole are trying to use the point that this rule is an anomaly. Do you know this for a fact and have you looked into it or are you assuming points of law? If you have, then this is encouraging.

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by spen666 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:18 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:Is it a bit of a high risk strategy though Spen? What's to stop National League at the appeal hearing saying "Sorry, we set the rules, you have to stick to them". One has to assume that either a) The club have been briefed by their own lawyers and/or b) The club have been in dialogue with the National League about this.
As this rule only applies at promotion from Step 2 to Step 1- it may be that Darlington board had not been aware of it until recently. That would not be surprising as the rule is out of step with every other promotion/ grading position.

It may alternatively be that at the time of the developing of BM, the club either did not expect to get promotion or could not afford the additional cost or did not want to delay the return to Darlington with the additional time or cost in building the extra seats.

Regarding Eastwood town a few years ago who were kicked out of the play-offs due to this reason, it would be interesting to find out whether they appealed and were unsuccessful.
I thought Eastwood town were denied promotion because their 500+ seats were split across 3 stands, with no 2 stands together having 500 seats.

They did appeal on that point which is a slightly different point, but lost
- see quote from
http://twohundredpercent.net/the-death- ... d-town-fc/
"The Football Conference, however, barred the club from entering in the play-offs on account of ground grading issues. Coronation Park had the correct number of seats for the league (B grading), but they were spread across three stands and not two, meaning that the A grading needed for the league above was not met"

Another thing Spen, you say you believe that Poole are trying to use the point that this rule is an anomaly. Do you know this for a fact and have you looked into it or are you assuming points of law? If you have, then this is encouraging.
I have got the information regarding Poole from statements they have issued via several media sources, including local paper and also in Non League Paper.

Whether Poole would succeed or not is not something I can say, but their position would be strengthened if other clubs (e.g. Darlington) were also making the same argument.

There is a piece in the local Bornemouth paper here re Poole

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/sport/ ... nal_South/
....According to National League requirements, to qualify for promotion and to participate in the play-offs, clubs must achieve a category B grading and have 500 seats under cover by the March 31 deadline.

However, while this could be a stumbling block as Poole do not have the required number of seats under cover, it is believed this regulation is over and above FA ground-grading rules. Should Poole fall foul of this, it is understood they would appeal.
....

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by darlo reborn » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:55 pm

That`s maybe why we have been playing crap lately so not to get in playoffs problem solved

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by lo36789 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:20 pm

darlo reborn wrote:That`s maybe why we have been playing crap lately so not to get in playoffs problem solved
Except we were top of the form chart until Saturday...

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by darlo reborn » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:17 pm

That`s just to keep us fans still interested

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by Neil Johnson » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:27 am

Poole Town may not have planning permission, but Darlo have, so no issue if we can possibly qualify for the play-offs.

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by Dany Krap » Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:24 am

Neil Johnson wrote:Poole Town may not have planning permission, but Darlo have, so no issue if we can possibly qualify for the play-offs.
Do the National Leagues rules actually state that planning permission is acceptable as an alternative to seating or is this just some idea that we are all hanging on to?

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by spen666 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:04 pm

Has any definitive answer been given by either the League or the club as to whether or not the club will be able to take part in the play offs given the seating issue?

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by coles » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:21 pm

spen666 wrote:Has any definitive answer been given by either the League or the club as to whether or not the club will be able to take part in the play offs given the seating issue?


This does need answering however the fact Martin Gray was so adamant that we were going for it must be seen as a positive.

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by MCFCDarlo3 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:07 pm

Does anyone know the cost of moving the seats from Bishop?

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:11 pm

MCFCDarlo3 wrote:Does anyone know the cost of moving the seats from Bishop?
Rumour of 30k/40k. I don't know if that included a roof building, I would hope it did.

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by loan_star » Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:33 pm

If they bring the seats from Bishop I cant see them being put next to the current seats as they are at different levels. Siting them elsewhere brings the problem of not having 500 seats under one roof.

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:56 pm

loan_star wrote:If they bring the seats from Bishop I cant see them being put next to the current seats as they are at different levels. Siting them elsewhere brings the problem of not having 500 seats under one roof.
It's under two roofs.
FA Rules wrote:The minimum covered seated accommodation must be 500. These may be located in two stands of which at least 250 shall be seats located in one stand, with no stand having less than 100 seats.
These seats may be inclusive of Directors/Committee and press seating.

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by Emdubya » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:14 pm

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
MCFCDarlo3 wrote:Does anyone know the cost of moving the seats from Bishop?
..
Rumour of 30k/40k. I don't know if that included a roof building, I would hope it did.
30/40 grand :o.Jesus Christ,a couple of scaffolders could have them sorted in a couple of days.

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by loan_star » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:20 pm

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
loan_star wrote:If they bring the seats from Bishop I cant see them being put next to the current seats as they are at different levels. Siting them elsewhere brings the problem of not having 500 seats under one roof.
It's under two roofs.
FA Rules wrote:The minimum covered seated accommodation must be 500. These may be located in two stands of which at least 250 shall be seats located in one stand, with no stand having less than 100 seats.
These seats may be inclusive of Directors/Committee and press seating.
Fair enough. Probably best behind the goal then, pipe permitting.

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:21 pm

Emdubya wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
MCFCDarlo3 wrote:Does anyone know the cost of moving the seats from Bishop?
..
Rumour of 30k/40k. I don't know if that included a roof building, I would hope it did.
30/40 grand :o.Jesus Christ,a couple of scaffolders could have them sorted in a couple of days.
It might be an incorrect figure but you need a roof over the stand, no doubt some groundwork first, things are never cheap these days.

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by spen666 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:36 pm

loan_star wrote:If they bring the seats from Bishop I cant see them being put next to the current seats as they are at different levels. Siting them elsewhere brings the problem of not having 500 seats under one roof.

You can have the 500 seats in 2 stands. That is not the issue.

The problem is the 500 seats were not in place by the 1st April as seemingly required by the rules for promotion to National League National Division

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by MCFCDarlo3 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:29 am

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
MCFCDarlo3 wrote:Does anyone know the cost of moving the seats from Bishop?
Rumour of 30k/40k. I don't know if that included a roof building, I would hope it did.
I suppose its all the H & S requirements that put the cost up.

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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by quaker4life » Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:05 pm

Spen, no offence pal but you would be better served worrying about the Brewery Field which I understand does not yet meet Category B criteria and should you be promoted you will see apparent problems you will face.

Either sack Spenny off and come back to us or stick with them and end your obsession and stop wishing it on us, many thanks.

On the point of the temporary seats at Heritage Park - they will not suffice and there is no sense in wasting time and resources moving them to Blackwell.

I also wouldn't expect to hear anything regarding this until the fans forum on the 21st, it's possible we have already been informed we are not allowed to participate and are in the process of appealing, it's also possible nothing has happened at all and this is a total non issue.

Regardless, we will know with in the next few weeks and until then there's little sense in speculating.
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Re: Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

Post by Darlogramps » Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:15 pm

quaker4life wrote:Spen, no offence pal but you would be better served worrying about the Brewery Field which I understand does not yet meet Category B criteria and should you be promoted you will see apparent problems you will face.

Either sack Spenny off and come back to us or stick with them and end your obsession and stop wishing it on us, many thanks.
In fairness to Spen, there are plenty of Spennymoor fans who are hopelessly obsessed with Darlington. They can't help themselves.

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