Poole Town Play Off Issue and Darlo

[Quakerz]

To add terracing along one end and get the capacity to 4,000 I wouldn't like to think about how much that will cost.

I'm not sure that a decent sized terrace, especially an open terrace would cost a huge amount of money, compared to the total cost of the stand when it's up to 500 seats?

Think we'll have to do this in stages - 150k over the next few months to make the ground eligible for the play offs next season.

Then the next stage, once we have planning permission, which would be to bring the ground up to category A, in theory could be left until we're promoted because we'd have until March 31st of the following season to complete that works - and as a promoted club we'd once again have access to grant money to help with the cost.

[al_quaker]

To add terracing along one end and get the capacity to 4,000 I wouldn't like to think about how much that will cost.

I'm not sure that a decent sized terrace, especially an open terrace would cost a huge amount of money, compared to the total cost of the stand when it's up to 500 seats?

Think we'll have to do this in stages - 150k over the next few months to make the ground eligible for the play offs.

Then the next stage, once we have planning permission, which would be to bring the ground up to category A, in theory could be left until we're promoted because we'd have until March 31st of the following season to complete that works, and as a promoted club we'd once again have access to grant money to help with the cost.

Indeed - that's the way forward I think. All priority has to go towards the new seats. If that's at the expense of the pitch/playing budget/terracing then so be it (I appreciate there's a balance as we need to be competitive to maintain crowds). Until we have the funding for the seats secured, there's no point in competing for promotion or other upgrades to BM as we won't be eligible. It will be hard to take, but it's the only way we will progress in the long term

[lo36789]

As someone said on here recently, the whole of the available grant at this level has been used, so until Darlington are promoted or 5 years pass, there are no FSIF grants.

You have no idea if that is true or not.

There was a poster on here who said Fylde was by the seaside for crying out loud...hope you use something a bit more reliable for reference when you are doing your legal stuff.

I don't remember our fundraising being for £250,000 which is the maximum matched grant but could be wrong - but we fell short of our maximum targeted figure anyway.

[Vodka_Vic]

The timing of the rule change was unfortunate for us to be fair. It was just after fundraising closed so we couldn't just add the extra money on top.
The time frames of the board's statement interest me. They say they learnt of the rule change a couple of months ago which is a couple of months after our ground grading meeting at BM. This again begs the question why were the club still working to the old criteria after the meeting? As Spyman says, the FA surely will have left them in no doubt as to our shortcomings regarding eligibility to the play-offs. This is deffo a question I'll be e-mailing in for the fans forum.

[joejaques]

Haven't had time to read through all 12 pages of this thread, but can anyone tell me when the appeal will be heard, and when we will be notified of the outcome?

[Vodka_Vic]

According to Poole town who are also appealing a couple of weeks

[lo36789]

The timing of the rule change was unfortunate for us to be fair. It was just after fundraising closed so we couldn't just add the extra money on top.

I suppose I am thinking even if it had been added in May could that have done more harm than good. The money asked for was I think £78,000 or something at the last set of funding (£48,000 to refill the escrow account and £30,000 to get us up to Category B).

To ask for potentially £150,000 as a top up on £78,000 may have been quite daunting. Especially as we were 7 months off moving into the ground at that point and without a license signed.

I am probably of a mind that even if we had been fully aware I am not actually convinced it would have made a blind bit of difference. I don't actually believe we would have raised enough money in enough time to have been compliant.

If it had been £50k I'd have been confident as well, honest that figure daunts me right now. There are some very loud people on Twitter and Facebook at the moment but I am not convinced many of them will be contributing the average £150pp we need from each adult fan.

[Lincolnshire_Quaker]

Very much a gutting situation for the club to be in. Whilst we can hope for a slim chance of success at an appeal, the most positive thing we, as fans, can do is get fully behind the team - players, manager and board - for the rest of this season and finish well within the play-off places. That means getting to as many of the remaining matches as possible and being the 12th man.

Commitments mean the best I can manage is one of the 4 remaining games but I will become a Gainsborough fan for a day tomorrow and nip over to the Northolme ground to lend a few cheers to help them get a result against Salford. Every little helps!

[dfc4me]

The timing of the rule change was unfortunate for us to be fair. It was just after fundraising closed so we couldn't just add the extra money on top.
The time frames of the board's statement interest me. They say they learnt of the rule change a couple of months ago which is a couple of months after our ground grading meeting at BM. This again begs the question why were the club still working to the old criteria after the meeting? As Spyman says, the FA surely will have left them in no doubt as to our shortcomings regarding eligibility to the play-offs. This is deffo a question I'll be e-mailing in for the fans forum.

Could this be part of the basis of our appeal? For me what was said or not said that day is the key.

[Daidy]

I'm afraid the statement from the board doesn't come across too well to me. Plenty of deflection going on but not an acceptance of a major error on their part. Neither the word 'apology' nor 'sorry' appears once in it. I'm not looking to start some sort of witchhunt but how do the board expect the fans and shareholders to regain any trust in them if they don't fully own up to this being their fault, and their fault alone.

For example:

"Unfortunately, and in any event, the budget for the development of Blackwell Meadows would not have extended to a further covered seated stand. As was revealed in the narrative to last year’s accounts, the actual cost of moving back to the town was significantly greater than had been budgeted. Additionally, there have been running costs associated with the operation of Blackwell Meadows, for example increased security and stewarding, which have been insisted upon by Safety Advisory Group, which costs have not been met by an increase in crowd numbers attending, save for the first game against FC Halifax Town."

This has little to nothing to do with the actual problem at hand?! It doesn't negate the fact that someone failed to read the rules. If we had known the rules, we could have budgeted on the playing side accordingly for this season, which would have been majorly beneficial once we encountered the extra "running costs associated with the operation of Blackwell Meadows."

And this:

"We are as disappointed as everyone else that our success on the field is not reflected in our ability to move to a higher level at this time. But we would remind everyone that had we thought that we would be playing back in our home town, in the second tier of the non-league pyramid, under our original name, and all within five years of that fateful day in 2012, not many would have had faith in that dream."

For this read: "Our huge error is more acceptable because we are doing better than we thought we would be so it's all good." I'm sorry but you cannot put that out in a statement addressing such a major screw-up. It is shifting the focus away from the issue at hand, when they should be holding their hands up and apologising.

Before anyone trots out the old and tired line, I know they are volunteers, and no, I don't want heads to roll for the sake of heads rolling. But I would find it a lot easier to accept, move on and get behind them again if they put out a concise and clear message owning up to the mistakes made and addressing how this will never be allowed to happen again.

[loan_star]

I'm afraid the statement from the board doesn't come across too well to me. Plenty of deflection going on but not an acceptance of a major error on their part. Neither the word 'apology' nor 'sorry' appears once in it. I'm not looking to start some sort of witchhunt but how do the board expect the fans and shareholders to regain any trust in them if they don't fully own up to this being their fault, and their fault alone.

For example:

"Unfortunately, and in any event, the budget for the development of Blackwell Meadows would not have extended to a further covered seated stand. As was revealed in the narrative to last year’s accounts, the actual cost of moving back to the town was significantly greater than had been budgeted. Additionally, there have been running costs associated with the operation of Blackwell Meadows, for example increased security and stewarding, which have been insisted upon by Safety Advisory Group, which costs have not been met by an increase in crowd numbers attending, save for the first game against FC Halifax Town."

This has little to nothing to do with the actual problem at hand?! It doesn't negate the fact that someone failed to read the rules. If we had know the rules, we could have budgeted on the playing side accordingly for this season, which would have been majorly beneficial once we encountered the extra "running costs associated with the operation of Blackwell Meadows."

And this:

"We are as disappointed as everyone else that our success on the field is not reflected in our ability to move to a higher level at this time. But we would remind everyone that had we thought that we would be playing back in our home town, in the second tier of the non-league pyramid, under our original name, and all within five years of that fateful day in 2012, not many would have had faith in that dream."

For this read: "Our huge error is more acceptable because we are doing better than we thought we would be so it's all good." I'm sorry but you cannot put that out in a statement addressing such a major screw-up. It is shifting the focus away from the issue at hand, when they should be holding their hands up and apologising.

Before anyone trots out the old and tired line, I know they are volunteers and no, I don't want heads to roll for the sake of heads rolling. But I would find it a lot easier to accept, move on and get behind them again if they put out a concise and clear message owing up to the mistakes made and addressing how this will never be allowed to happen again.

Whilst I dont want to sound critical of people who put a lot more work into DFC than that vast majority of fans, the above comment hits the nail on the head for me.

[Vodka_Vic]

Perhaps they don't want to be publicly admitting guilt or an apology until the appeal is heard.

[DL5]

I simply don't buy the 'no one knew' line.

The board did know, but aren't telling us when the realised, and said nothing, which is a disgrace.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I wonder when they told MG and the players

[Lincolnshire_Quaker]

An apt message when trying to read up on the rules just now:



No promotion up the Google rankings for them!

[QUAKERMAN2]

My big concern in light of this decision is the effect it will have on MG and his players who yet again have done the club proud and have put in so much effort to get us in such a great position at the business end of the season only to have it taken away by an almighty cock up by our board.
No way on earth will our appeal succeed so realistically its on to planning for next season. We have a great manager and coaching staff, plus a set of players IF we can keep will make us one of the contenders to go up next season. Reading between the lines from the official statement, it seems MG was "very frustrated".....that would be putting it pretty mildly knowing Martin. Time will tell whether he and some of our players can bring themselves to go again but you have to feel for them at this time.One thing I fail to understand is why has this surfaced so late in the season. Did our directors know months ago and thinking that we would possibly not make the playoffs so this situation would not have arisen bearing in mind everything was finalised for the development of BM with only 250 seats.The fans forum will be interesting to say the least.Like everyone else on this board, totally fed up and angry.

[Spyman]

I suppose if we'd taking money off the playing budget to fund further ground improvements we'd not be talking about this anyway as we'd not be near the play-offs.

[spen666]

An apt message when trying to read up on the rules just now:



No promotion up the Google rankings for them!

You are looking in the wrong place.

There is no Football Conference. It is the National League - try looking at the right website https://www.thenationalleague.org.uk/news/index.php


BTW if its the Ground Grading Criteria you want, then look at the FA Website as its their Grading system

[lo36789]

Time will tell whether he and some of our players can bring themselves to go again but you have to feel for them at this time.

You do know we haven't been denied promotion - just that we won't get to be in the playoffs?

I mean there was every chance we would be in this league this season anyway and I'd have hoped the players would be able to motivate themselves for the 2017/18 season.

I do hope we haven't got a bunch of players who get too upset by not getting promoted that they need to be replaced the following season.

[Lincolnshire_Quaker]

You are looking in the wrong place.

There is no Football Conference. It is the National League - try looking at the right website https://www.thenationalleague.org.uk/news/index.php


BTW if its the Ground Grading Criteria you want, then look at the FA Website as its their Grading system

Thanks for the heads up. All gets a bit confusing when the Conference site advertises itself as The National League Official Website. I assumed if I wanted an 'official' take on something then that would be the place to start!

[dfc4me]

It could even make everyone more determined than ever to succeed next season both on the pitch and with the fundraising

[poppyfield]

From the statement,

This change in the requirement for permanent covered seating was only brought to the Board’s attention in the past couple of months.

They should of least informed MG before he made his rallying cry after last Saturdays game.

I am totally pissed off, not even sure if I am going on Saturday what's the point, got to feel for the players and coaching staff.

[dickdarlington]

I'm not going to get bogged down by the blame game. It's happened. Time to focus on rectifying it, and making sure nothing like this happens again.

But in answer to some of the costs quoted.

The cost for the temporary seating was £30k (as previously mentioned on this thread). That included laying foundations, and moving and re-erecting the seating decks from Bish. I still think that we need these seats at Blackwell. But £30k is a lot when we have nothing. If you think about it, they cost £50k originally. There is no way that those seats cost all that, so the bulk of the original expense was probably on getting them to HP in the first place. They won't have come with free delivery and free construction.

The £75k originally qouted for a larger stand at BM was nearly 3 years ago, and was factored in as part of the existing structure. Cost of steel has increased since then. A large chunk of the additional costs will be getting the extra steel made to the required dimensions (we can't just walk down to Wickes and take it off the shelf), and the delivery costs are replicated (the seats came from China I recall), add to that additional cost of the workforce. No additional grants are available for this work, plus it's likely the £150k will include the pitch.

Should we be promoted within the next five seasons, another £150k becomes available, which will be utilised to increase the ground up to and including the 4000 mark. Part of this would be a terrace, but additional turnstiles, media facilities, lighting, and all manner of trivial need sorting. We'd probably need to raise a further £200k by that cover the costs. But for the most part, we're not that far off. Believe it or not, we have enough toilets in place for Step A.

FL qualification is another step up. FL admission more, and FL membership is another kettle of fish.

As a club, for the facilities alone, we probably need to raise another £1M before grants to get the ground up to FL standards. And then possibly another £750k to stay there.

[spen666]

You are looking in the wrong place.

There is no Football Conference. It is the National League - try looking at the right website https://www.thenationalleague.org.uk/news/index.php


BTW if its the Ground Grading Criteria you want, then look at the FA Website as its their Grading system

Thanks for the heads up. All gets a bit confusing when the Conference site advertises itself as The National League Official Website. I assumed if I wanted an 'official' take on something then that would be the place to start!

I don't think Ground Grading is on the National League site. I had a quick look after your post.


I think this is possibly a new website and only recently went live (from comments on a different non league message board)

[Yarblockos]

I'm afraid the statement from the board doesn't come across too well to me. Plenty of deflection going on but not an acceptance of a major error on their part. Neither the word 'apology' nor 'sorry' appears once in it. I'm not looking to start some sort of witchhunt but how do the board expect the fans and shareholders to regain any trust in them if they don't fully own up to this being their fault, and their fault alone.

Absolutely agree. I can only hope that they have not issued any form of apology because they think it will prejudice the appeal. At some point there needs to be a huge apology made, not just to the fans, but to all investors, players, management and coaching staff.

"We are as disappointed as everyone else that our success on the field is not reflected in our ability to move to a higher level at this time. But we would remind everyone that had we thought that we would be playing back in our home town, in the second tier of the non-league pyramid, under our original name, and all within five years of that fateful day in 2012, not many would have had faith in that dream."

For this read: "Our huge error is more acceptable because we are doing better than we thought we would be so it's all good." I'm sorry but you cannot put that out in a statement addressing such a major screw-up. It is shifting the focus away from the issue at hand, when they should be holding their hands up and apologising.

Reminds me of this..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUoT5AxFpRs

[Lincolnshire_Quaker]

Here's an interesting (albeit unlikely) scenario ...... Darlo win all remaining 4 matches and have a mathematical possibility of finishing as champions, depending on results from other teams in the top 7. Promoted or not?

[al_quaker]

Here's an interesting (albeit unlikely) scenario ...... Darlo win all remaining 4 matches and have a mathematical possibility of finishing as champions, depending on results from other teams in the top 7. Promoted or not?

No - 500 seats is needed to be eligible for promotion, whether that is as champions or to enter the playoffs.

[Breedon]

I'm afraid the statement from the board doesn't come across too well to me. Plenty of deflection going on but not an acceptance of a major error on their part. Neither the word 'apology' nor 'sorry' appears once in it. I'm not looking to start some sort of witchhunt but how do the board expect the fans and shareholders to regain any trust in them if they don't fully own up to this being their fault, and their fault alone.

For example:

"Unfortunately, and in any event, the budget for the development of Blackwell Meadows would not have extended to a further covered seated stand. As was revealed in the narrative to last year’s accounts, the actual cost of moving back to the town was significantly greater than had been budgeted. Additionally, there have been running costs associated with the operation of Blackwell Meadows, for example increased security and stewarding, which have been insisted upon by Safety Advisory Group, which costs have not been met by an increase in crowd numbers attending, save for the first game against FC Halifax Town."

This has little to nothing to do with the actual problem at hand?! It doesn't negate the fact that someone failed to read the rules. If we had known the rules, we could have budgeted on the playing side accordingly for this season, which would have been majorly beneficial once we encountered the extra "running costs associated with the operation of Blackwell Meadows."

And this:

"We are as disappointed as everyone else that our success on the field is not reflected in our ability to move to a higher level at this time. But we would remind everyone that had we thought that we would be playing back in our home town, in the second tier of the non-league pyramid, under our original name, and all within five years of that fateful day in 2012, not many would have had faith in that dream."

For this read: "Our huge error is more acceptable because we are doing better than we thought we would be so it's all good." I'm sorry but you cannot put that out in a statement addressing such a major screw-up. It is shifting the focus away from the issue at hand, when they should be holding their hands up and apologising.

Before anyone trots out the old and tired line, I know they are volunteers, and no, I don't want heads to roll for the sake of heads rolling. But I would find it a lot easier to accept, move on and get behind them again if they put out a concise and clear message owning up to the mistakes made and addressing how this will never be allowed to happen again.

Spot on. Fans have been complaining about an increasing lack of transparency and being forthcoming with important news from the club for a while now, and this is something we all absolutely had a right to know about as soon as they did, and they chose to go about it this way. Even if it was saying "OK, here's the deal, it's this much money by this date or no promotion" and the end result was no promotion, fine. Keeping stum and shrugging their shoulders without so much as an apology, it's bad crack and frankly is off putting.

[MKDarlo]

This is an incredibly damaging situation to be in. The board, by making this mistake, have consigned us to playing at this level for (at least) several years putting at risk the very good progress the board trumpet in their statement.

Clearly, the playing budget must be culled for future seasons as attendances will fall once the implication of this situation sinks in which has a further downward effect on what are already tight finances which means we are unable to build the seats making a challenge for promotion pointless.

The board need to issue a full apology and stop taking us for mugs. Many people are now very angry and the trust in the club, built up by hard work over the past few years, has been lost all to quickly.

Hopefully the board are open and honest at the forum about who knew what and when, how this mistake came about, what will be done to prevent a repeat and what was the strategy for the release of this information. It isnt good enough and cant happen again.

[al_quaker]

There definitely needs to be an apology - not individually as that would start a witch hunt, but as a board. I can understand why there may not be one at this time if we are appealing, but it needs to come before the club start asking for £150k from the fans.

[MKDarlo]

There definitely needs to be an apology - not individually as that would start a witch hunt, but as a board. I can understand why there may not be one at this time if we are appealing, but it needs to come before the club start asking for £150k from the fans.

exactly - mistakes happen ( we ALL make them at work) but the board needs to take collective responsibility and issue a fulsome apology accepting that responsibility before asking for financial help once again