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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:03 pm 
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Team Supported: Darlington
This season we've done more than ok in the higher division.

But the main reason that the crowds have been disappointing at Blackwell Meadows, is that we've not been winning enough matches there. Costs up ~ Revenue down!

Had we got promoted, then we would really have struggled in the National League, unless we invested heavily in 'better' players.

However, we cannot continue to overspend on the playing budget at the expense of other demands for investment.

We cannot keep going back to the supporters with yet another 'annual' fund raising exercise.

Playing in the National League without significant investment is likely to be a 'struggle' with crowd numbers likely to be disappointing. Costs up ~ Revenue down!

However, playing next season in the National North, being one of the top teams throughout the season, is likely to significantly boost our crowd numbers.

I for one have found the last few games difficult. Of course you want to see your team win, but for me, promotion next season is preferable to promotion this season.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:58 am 
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Team Supported: Darlington
Hard not to agree with you, but my concerns are with the team and fans. Almost feel that we have been swindled in our playoff efforts, however also grateful for the efforts of the board and hundreds of unseen volunteers who kept us going in the really dark days five years ago. At least we aren't #1 and Championship in our pocket. Recent games have not been pretty in footballing terms (apart from 3rd goal against Tamworth) and the BM needs attention so let's get it fixed over the close season & look forward to hosting more local derbies against Blyth, North Ferriby and possibly York / Spennymoor or even Whitby. Every cloud has a silver lining. Classic case of two steps forward and one back. :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:58 am 
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Team Supported: Darlington
I'd always want to play in the highest league possible and to be relieved at us not getting the chance to get promoted is negative.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:45 am 
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Team Supported: Darlington
Not negative !
Financially sound.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:09 pm 
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Team Supported: Darlington
I think people who though we would get 1000s and 1000s at BM are a little blinkered, if you look at our last season in the arena the crowds are about the same.

In fact if you factor in that year the york and fleetwood crowd plus we did have teams bringing away support at times meagre but exceeding what we see at the moment, we are probably doing quite well with crowds.

If you are a retailer and footfall is decreasing or is like for like then you need to upsell, everyone does this, McDonald's, Burger King, 2 for 1 offers, butchers have been doing it for years ! And this football club in my opinion would have been better returning to the arena, where for 1 we wouldn't be in this mess but have the facilty for hospitality and more commercial activity, which would form a strong foundation for income streams.
And in fairness to the Clubs hierarchy they are aware of this and looking for opportunities.

My opinion !


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:10 pm 
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Rufusuk wrote:
Not negative !
Financially sound.


It's still a negative attitude in my opinion.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:11 am 
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Team Supported: Darlington
weve come a long way in a relatively short space of time, I for one don't mind not going up this season as I also believe we would have rooted to the bottom on the national prem all season, we would need to replace about 5 or 6 players from the first 11 at least, with all due respect to them a lot of them have reached the pinnacle of how far up the leagues they can perform, some of them have been with us since the Northern League.
so an increase in expenditure would have been necessary and the crowds have to be at least 2500 IMO to afford this, lets be patient, we will get there but it may take a few years.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:37 am 
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Team Supported: Darlington
It is negative,football is a competitive sport you always aim for the highest possible place ,that's competition.
I would always want Darlington football club to compete and attain a best possible position ,better to try
and fail. than not try at all.That's what it's all about ..


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:46 am 
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Team Supported: Darlington
not at the risk of running up huge debts again


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:23 am 
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Team Supported: Darlington
It's not negative, it's been realistic. We already know what the minimum requirements in terms of financing a Conference National club would be roughly. Without having larger crowds or increased outside investment this is about as much as we can achieve at the moment and don't get me wrong our rise has been fantastic. The hardest part is realising that although we see ourselves as a football league club and we all want to be back there one day, unfortunately the damage of the past 15-20 yrs of decision making has driven us to this level. We are now a top 10 Conference North club, trying to run as a community club on our own by us and with our level of support this is what we can easily sustain.

We now need to build a slush fund over the next few seasons to prepare properly for promotion that includes for infrastructure as well as a transfer kitty and increased costs running a Conference National club. I understand that this will not be what everyone wants and the risk is that management and players will look at their careers over the progress of the club, but these are the hard decisions to be made and overcome. It's the sustainability of the club for future generations, over what could be short term but limited success by us over stretching too far too soon and killing the club that way.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:53 am 
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onewayup wrote:
It is negative,football is a competitive sport you always aim for the highest possible place ,that's competition.
I would always want Darlington football club to compete and attain a best possible position ,better to try
and fail. than not try at all.That's what it's all about ..


And the real risk of failure being that the club goes under.......


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:56 am 
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Team Supported: Darlington
Not wanting us to be promoted is definitely negative, it certainly isn't positive is it?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:58 am 
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It is ridiculous to say that you don't want promotion or that it would bankrupt us.

The worst that would happen is relegation, without doing any ground work.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:05 pm 
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Team Supported: Darlington
Beano wrote:
It is ridiculous to say that you don't want promotion or that it would bankrupt us.

The worst that would happen is relegation, without doing any ground work.


Sorry, but you are living in a fantasy world.

The risk of the club going pop could be very real.

Clubs go bankrupt for a very simple reason. More money going out than coming in. We go up, no money available for team strengthening, we get hammered 4-0 every week, crowds plunge, players are released because we can't afford to meet their contracts, Gray gets hacked off and is snapped by a better funded club etc etc until pop.

Hypothetical and speculative? Of course - but we must not exceed our means if we are to remain a sustainable football club.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:21 pm 
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Team Supported: Darlington
The idea of a slush fund is a good idea. This is why we should have really moved back to the Arena and alllwed a slush fund to build up, might have taken 10 years or so, but we'd be back in the town and getting extra income from hospitality etc.

Regarding the idea of the club going bankrupt if we won promotion. You'd base the playing budget around season tickets sales obvioulsy, that way diminishing crowds aren't going to bankrupt you. Teams go up the the premier league, don't stretch their budget, come straight back down, but build on what they have and become stronger. It's all about how sensible you are. After all, hundreds of teams get relegated across all the leagues every single season and they don't go bust.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:25 pm 
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Team Supported: Swansea (and Darlo of course)
Yarblockos wrote:
The idea of a slush fund is a good idea. This is why we should have really moved back to the Arena and alllwed a slush fund to build up, might have taken 10 years or so, but we'd be back in the town and getting extra income from hospitality etc.

Regarding the idea of the club going bankrupt if we won promotion. You'd base the playing budget around season tickets sales obvioulsy, that way diminishing crowds aren't going to bankrupt you. Teams go up the the premier league, don't stretch their budget, come straight back down, but build on what they have and become stronger. It's all about how sensible you are. After all, hundreds of teams get relegated across all the leagues every single season and they don't go bust.


Exactly... We would not get thumped 4-0 every week, few off the wage bill, few acquisitions and we would be bottom half to mid table. Relegation would be a possibility but to suggest we'd be relegated by Christmas, have 300 crowds and go bankrupt is silly


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:47 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:59 pm
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Location: Hereford
Team Supported: Darlington
darlo2001uk wrote:
Beano wrote:
It is ridiculous to say that you don't want promotion or that it would bankrupt us.

The worst that would happen is relegation, without doing any ground work.


Sorry, but you are living in a fantasy world.

The risk of the club going pop could be very real.

Clubs go bankrupt for a very simple reason. More money going out than coming in. We go up, no money available for team strengthening, we get hammered 4-0 every week, crowds plunge, players are released because we can't afford to meet their contracts, Gray gets hacked off and is snapped by a better funded club etc etc until pop.

Hypothetical and speculative? Of course - but we must not exceed our means if we are to remain a sustainable football club.


This team we have now would not get thumped every week.
More than capable of competing at the lower end of the conference.
There would not be money available to strengthen the team if we succeeded in promotion but then there is no need to strengthen the team either if we remain in this league and don't want promotion. To not want promotion we may as well go back into the "Home for Tea" league.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Team Supported: Darlington
banktopp wrote:

This team we have now would not get thumped every week.
More than capable of competing at the lower end of the conference.
There would not be money available to strengthen the team if we succeeded in promotion but then there is no need to strengthen the team either if we remain in this league and don't want promotion. To not want promotion we may as well go back into the "Home for Tea" league.


Correct.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:57 pm 
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banktopp wrote:
This team we have now would not get thumped every week.
More than capable of competing at the lower end of the conference.
There would not be money available to strengthen the team if we succeeded in promotion but then there is no need to strengthen the team either if we remain in this league and don't want promotion. To not want promotion we may as well go back into the "Home for Tea" league.

The team we have now would almost certainly be bottom four without strengthening, which we wouldn't have the budget to do sustainably to the extent that would be needed. As has been pointed out this could easily lead to lessened interest and a so further loss in revenue along with rising costs.

Then we end up back in the division we're in now but worse off in terms of current and potential future finance with the need to build a team again as most of the new players will either want to play at a higher level or be unaffordable even if they didn't.

We're ahead of schedule as to the playing side, a season or two to breathe and allow the structure of the club to catch up will do us no harm.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:00 pm 
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Team Supported: Darlington
Darlo_H wrote:
We're ahead of schedule as to the playing side, a season or two to breathe and allow the structure of the club to catch up will do us no harm.


When you say a season or two to breathe, do you mean a season or two with a reduced budget where we aren't as competitive so we get lower gates and less interest and more financial problems?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:59 pm 
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Team Supported: Darlington
Look, I don't think I'd not being promoted this year is a disaster... but the manner really isn't good. If we went up, we would need to chuck money at the ground, as well as fund expensive national trips for the playing squad. Both at this time would probably involve a hefty slash to the playing budget. We might get a few bigger crowds if we went up, but not by much, and honestly right now we might take a walloping off the established sides.

That said, were we to go up in the playoffs the revenue from that could have helped. All the money simply must go to developing the ground right now. Even the pitch probably needs to wait. Having to basically say to players and fans that we can't go up because someone made a mistake is awful, and looks unprofessional.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Team Supported: Darlington
banktopp wrote:
darlo2001uk wrote:
Beano wrote:
It is ridiculous to say that you don't want promotion or that it would bankrupt us.

The worst that would happen is relegation, without doing any ground work.


Sorry, but you are living in a fantasy world.

The risk of the club going pop could be very real.

Clubs go bankrupt for a very simple reason. More money going out than coming in. We go up, no money available for team strengthening, we get hammered 4-0 every week, crowds plunge, players are released because we can't afford to meet their contracts, Gray gets hacked off and is snapped by a better funded club etc etc until pop.

Hypothetical and speculative? Of course - but we must not exceed our means if we are to remain a sustainable football club.


This team we have now would not get thumped every week.
More than capable of competing at the lower end of the conference.
There would not be money available to strengthen the team if we succeeded in promotion but then there is no need to strengthen the team either if we remain in this league and don't want promotion. To not want promotion we may as well go back into the "Home for Tea" league.


Agree also why would people want to buy a season ticket knowing there team can't get promoted out of the league it just doesn't happen

When u buy that ticket whatever team you support we all say we are going to do something in this league this year not we gonna win some games and stay where we are this year !!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Darlo_H wrote:
Then we end up back in the division we're in now but worse off in terms of current and potential future finance with the need to build a team again as most of the new players will either want to play at a higher level or be unaffordable even if they didn't.


I don't think missing out on promotion is a problem, despite not appreciating the manner, but to say we'd be bottom 4 without strengthening is utterly ludicrous.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:38 pm 
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Solihull Moors and North Ferriby? Prime examples.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:41 pm 
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Team Supported: Mighty Darlo
With this play-off thing going on, got me wondering, how did North Ferriby get into the National League

Cat A requires 4,000
Cat B requires 3,000

As far as I know North Ferriby holds less than 3,000, about 2,700

And Solihull only have a capacity of just over 3,000


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:40 pm 
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darlo2001uk wrote:
Solihull Moors and North Ferriby? Prime examples.


Irrelevant as their contexts are very different.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:00 pm 
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Beano wrote:
darlo2001uk wrote:
Solihull Moors and North Ferriby? Prime examples.


Irrelevant as their contexts are very different.


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How?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:18 pm 
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SwansQuaker83 wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
The idea of a slush fund is a good idea. This is why we should have really moved back to the Arena and alllwed a slush fund to build up, might have taken 10 years or so, but we'd be back in the town and getting extra income from hospitality etc.

Regarding the idea of the club going bankrupt if we won promotion. You'd base the playing budget around season tickets sales obvioulsy, that way diminishing crowds aren't going to bankrupt you. Teams go up the the premier league, don't stretch their budget, come straight back down, but build on what they have and become stronger. It's all about how sensible you are. After all, hundreds of teams get relegated across all the leagues every single season and they don't go bust.


Exactly... We would not get thumped 4-0 every week, few off the wage bill, few acquisitions and we would be bottom half to mid table. Relegation would be a possibility but to suggest we'd be relegated by Christmas, have 300 crowds and go bankrupt is silly


Not quite as silly as saying hundreds of teams get relegated every year ;) Do the maths


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:32 pm 
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jjljks wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
The idea of a slush fund is a good idea. This is why we should have really moved back to the Arena and alllwed a slush fund to build up, might have taken 10 years or so, but we'd be back in the town and getting extra income from hospitality etc.

Regarding the idea of the club going bankrupt if we won promotion. You'd base the playing budget around season tickets sales obvioulsy, that way diminishing crowds aren't going to bankrupt you. Teams go up the the premier league, don't stretch their budget, come straight back down, but build on what they have and become stronger. It's all about how sensible you are. After all, hundreds of teams get relegated across all the leagues every single season and they don't go bust.


Exactly... We would not get thumped 4-0 every week, few off the wage bill, few acquisitions and we would be bottom half to mid table. Relegation would be a possibility but to suggest we'd be relegated by Christmas, have 300 crowds and go bankrupt is silly


Not quite as silly as saying hundreds of teams get relegated every year ;) Do the maths


Well, 15 teams get relegated in the PL and FL. 12 in NL. By the time you get down to step 4 there are 59 teams experiencing relegation. Then at every step of the pyramid below. How many teams do you think that is? Give you a clue, there are 42 leagues at step 7.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:35 pm 
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jjljks wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
The idea of a slush fund is a good idea. This is why we should have really moved back to the Arena and alllwed a slush fund to build up, might have taken 10 years or so, but we'd be back in the town and getting extra income from hospitality etc.

Regarding the idea of the club going bankrupt if we won promotion. You'd base the playing budget around season tickets sales obvioulsy, that way diminishing crowds aren't going to bankrupt you. Teams go up the the premier league, don't stretch their budget, come straight back down, but build on what they have and become stronger. It's all about how sensible you are. After all, hundreds of teams get relegated across all the leagues every single season and they don't go bust.


Exactly... We would not get thumped 4-0 every week, few off the wage bill, few acquisitions and we would be bottom half to mid table. Relegation would be a possibility but to suggest we'd be relegated by Christmas, have 300 crowds and go bankrupt is silly


Not quite as silly as saying hundreds of teams get relegated every year ;) Do the maths


Figure of speech


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