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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:39 pm 
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SwansQuaker83 wrote:
jjljks wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
The idea of a slush fund is a good idea. This is why we should have really moved back to the Arena and alllwed a slush fund to build up, might have taken 10 years or so, but we'd be back in the town and getting extra income from hospitality etc.

Regarding the idea of the club going bankrupt if we won promotion. You'd base the playing budget around season tickets sales obvioulsy, that way diminishing crowds aren't going to bankrupt you. Teams go up the the premier league, don't stretch their budget, come straight back down, but build on what they have and become stronger. It's all about how sensible you are. After all, hundreds of teams get relegated across all the leagues every single season and they don't go bust.


Exactly... We would not get thumped 4-0 every week, few off the wage bill, few acquisitions and we would be bottom half to mid table. Relegation would be a possibility but to suggest we'd be relegated by Christmas, have 300 crowds and go bankrupt is silly


Not quite as silly as saying hundreds of teams get relegated every year ;) Do the maths


Figure of speech


No, work it out. Its the old wheat and chessboard scenario.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_and ... rd_problem


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:59 am 
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Promotion is like any new activity. Before you do it you need to assess and plan if you have the platform to sustain it. Any serious assessment of the health of the club suggests this is not a serious proposition at the moment For me this isn't even about the team but the off field arrangements that would make life difficult. I'm relieved.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:18 am 
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Beano wrote:
Darlo_H wrote:
Then we end up back in the division we're in now but worse off in terms of current and potential future finance with the need to build a team again as most of the new players will either want to play at a higher level or be unaffordable even if they didn't.


I don't think missing out on promotion is a problem, despite not appreciating the manner, but to say we'd be bottom 4 without strengthening is utterly ludicrous.


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Not ludicrous at all. Most of the clubs in the National League are pro - it's a significant step up.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:21 am 
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indeed
i think some people totally underestimate how much of a jump in quality it is to compete in the national prem


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:45 pm 
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To not achieve promotion by not finishing in the requisite league position is absolutely fine and the way football works.

To not accept promotion by finishing in the requisite league position and turning promotion down/not applying is fine in limited circles, but unambitious.

To not want promotion full stop, when sitting in an extremely competitive league position is unambitious, negative and, in my opinion extremely unadventurous.

I read every single day posts and tweets and blogs of how proud DFC fans are, and how much of an adventure the last 5 years have been, how much of a fantastic rollercoaster it is, yet it seems the majority are now giving it the "need to stay at this level for X years / Conference National is a step too far / we'd get mullered every week" etc.

So what if we did get beat often, so what if we did get relegated, we'd be learning lessons as we go and not sat here afraid to take the risk/plunge. But you know, we might just scrape through it and stay up.

Conference = Bit of TV revenue, back on the "national" map, greater exposure, better chance of FA Cup 1st Round. Poolie???!!!
Conference North consolidation (or stagnation) = Always a club with a "bigger" budget, Blyth/Spenny/York/Heed/Shields breathing down our necks, possibly with a greater budget again.

I think there's genuine competition in the area's non-league scene now and DFC cannot afford to stand still in their ambitions because, rightly or wrongly, there are others with budgets very close by.

Obviously, this season's promotion chances are scuppered but to all those now reasoning that "we never really wanted it anyway" - give your fucking heads a shake - that is not the attitude of a football fan!!!
About time we got back to being that little fish in a big pond again - I hate it at this level.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:34 pm 
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Mullet69 wrote:
To not achieve promotion by not finishing in the requisite league position is absolutely fine and the way football works.

To not accept promotion by finishing in the requisite league position and turning promotion down/not applying is fine in limited circles, but unambitious.

To not want promotion full stop, when sitting in an extremely competitive league position is unambitious, negative and, in my opinion extremely unadventurous.

I read every single day posts and tweets and blogs of how proud DFC fans are, and how much of an adventure the last 5 years have been, how much of a fantastic rollercoaster it is, yet it seems the majority are now giving it the "need to stay at this level for X years / Conference National is a step too far / we'd get mullered every week" etc.

So what if we did get beat often, so what if we did get relegated, we'd be learning lessons as we go and not sat here afraid to take the risk/plunge. But you know, we might just scrape through it and stay up.

Conference = Bit of TV revenue, back on the "national" map, greater exposure, better chance of FA Cup 1st Round. Poolie???!!!
Conference North consolidation (or stagnation) = Always a club with a "bigger" budget, Blyth/Spenny/York/Heed/Shields breathing down our necks, possibly with a greater budget again.

I think there's genuine competition in the area's non-league scene now and DFC cannot afford to stand still in their ambitions because, rightly or wrongly, there are others with budgets very close by.

Obviously, this season's promotion chances are scuppered but to all those now reasoning that "we never really wanted it anyway" - give your fucking heads a shake - that is not the attitude of a football fan!!!
About time we got back to being that little fish in a big pond again - I hate it at this level.


Absolutely spot on!!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:02 pm 
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Yarblockos wrote:
The idea of a slush fund is a good idea. This is why we should have really moved back to the Arena and alllwed a slush fund to build up, might have taken 10 years or so, but we'd be back in the town and getting extra income from hospitality etc.

Regarding the idea of the club going bankrupt if we won promotion. You'd base the playing budget around season tickets sales obvioulsy, that way diminishing crowds aren't going to bankrupt you. Teams go up the the premier league, don't stretch their budget, come straight back down, but build on what they have and become stronger. It's all about how sensible you are. After all, hundreds of teams get relegated across all the leagues every single season and they don't go bust.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought a "slush fund" was a hidden account from which untraceable bribes are funded. Who are you suggesting we should be bribing? :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:03 pm 
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Mullet69 wrote:
To not achieve promotion by not finishing in the requisite league position is absolutely fine and the way football works.

To not accept promotion by finishing in the requisite league position and turning promotion down/not applying is fine in limited circles, but unambitious.

To not want promotion full stop, when sitting in an extremely competitive league position is unambitious, negative and, in my opinion extremely unadventurous.

I read every single day posts and tweets and blogs of how proud DFC fans are, and how much of an adventure the last 5 years have been, how much of a fantastic rollercoaster it is, yet it seems the majority are now giving it the "need to stay at this level for X years / Conference National is a step too far / we'd get mullered every week" etc.

So what if we did get beat often, so what if we did get relegated, we'd be learning lessons as we go and not sat here afraid to take the risk/plunge. But you know, we might just scrape through it and stay up.

Conference = Bit of TV revenue, back on the "national" map, greater exposure, better chance of FA Cup 1st Round. Poolie???!!!
Conference North consolidation (or stagnation) = Always a club with a "bigger" budget, Blyth/Spenny/York/Heed/Shields breathing down our necks, possibly with a greater budget again.

I think there's genuine competition in the area's non-league scene now and DFC cannot afford to stand still in their ambitions because, rightly or wrongly, there are others with budgets very close by.

Obviously, this season's promotion chances are scuppered but to all those now reasoning that "we never really wanted it anyway" - give your fucking heads a shake - that is not the attitude of a football fan!!!
About time we got back to being that little fish in a big pond again - I hate it at this level.


Absolutely spot on there well said


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:15 pm 
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All this talk about not wanting promotion makes me weep. Why would we be sitting in the bottom half of the National League? Who knows if the current players aren't good enough? They haven't had the chance they deserve.
Football is about winning, not just taking part. If I was MG and the players I wouldn't want to be sat there twiddling my thumbs. Get the ground to the minimum standard and go for it on the field; that's what I say. Aim highest.
I accept that my views are worth no more than anyone else's; others disagree, that's fair enough. But I don't want us to be a team of shrinking violets, accepting where we are and patting ourselves on the back for having come so far so soon (no matter how well deserved). And our performance on Saturday would have stuffed plenty of higher league sides.
I'm sure there must be somebody somewhere who may agree.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:30 pm 
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Feethams 1966 wrote:
All this talk about not wanting promotion makes me weep. Why would we be sitting in the bottom half of the National League? Who knows if the current players aren't good enough? They haven't had the chance they deserve.


They haven't earned / deserved anything yet they haven't won promotion to the National League.

I don't think anyone is saying lets just sit here twiddling our thumbs. The challenge is even if we had 500 seats right now we would need to find a substantial amount of money next season to remain in the division as well as funding a squad capable of competing.

Without fundraising there is every chance we would end up going into the season with a smaller playing budget than we have now as we make allowances to make necessary ground improvements.

Everyone is aiming high - so long as it is sustainable - and doesn't lead to knee jerk reactions and expenditure.

My response was that I am not that bothered if we don't go up this season. Not that I don't want to, not that we'd turn it down - but that a top 10 finish for me, with a return home and playing name returned was a good outcome for the season. It could be a blessing long term - but I am not upset that we may be prevented from going up this season - I just see it as another hurdle that we will overcome.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:28 pm 
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Feethams and Mullett are absolutely spot on with both posts, even if we get the OK from the FA we should still go flat out for promotion .

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:33 pm 
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Feethams and Mullet!!! A firm of solicitors or two TV detectives. One good guy, one nasty.

I too agree with Feethams and Mullet.

All this talk of consolidating and such, it's so defeatist. If we finish top five we have earned the right to give promotion a shot.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:52 pm 
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For the past couple of season's supporters have stated I would be happy with top ten or in and around the playoffs. Martin has surpassed this year on year and got us promoted and I have no doubt if we had gone up this year he would have brought in additional players and had us competing on a budget once again.

We have a nucleus of a very good team of players who have played at Conference and above, Martin wouldn't accept mediocrity.

If you have the chance of promotion you grasp it with both hands. My fear is now Martin could walk away with a number of the players and we don't reach this level again for a number of years causing a loss in momentum and people willing to invest.

Fingers crossed for positive news tomorrow night with the biggest positive being that Martin and the players are going nowhere and are going to give it another go next year.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:53 pm 
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Spot on quakerste, agree with your post 100%.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:15 pm 
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lo36789 wrote:
Feethams 1966 wrote:
All this talk about not wanting promotion makes me weep. Why would we be sitting in the bottom half of the National League? Who knows if the current players aren't good enough? They haven't had the chance they deserve.


They haven't earned / deserved anything yet they haven't won promotion to the National League.

I don't think anyone is saying lets just sit here twiddling our thumbs. The challenge is even if we had 500 seats right now we would need to find a substantial amount of money next season to remain in the division as well as funding a squad capable of competing.

Without fundraising there is every chance we would end up going into the season with a smaller playing budget than we have now as we make allowances to make necessary ground improvements.

Everyone is aiming high - so long as it is sustainable - and doesn't lead to knee jerk reactions and expenditure.

My response was that I am not that bothered if we don't go up this season. Not that I don't want to, not that we'd turn it down - but that a top 10 finish for me, with a return home and playing name returned was a good outcome for the season. It could be a blessing long term - but I am not upset that we may be prevented from going up this season - I just see it as another hurdle that we will overcome.

But why not take the chance and find out if the players are good enough and if the supporters are capable of getting behind that next jump off the pitch.

Up until now we've got by thanks to a small number of volunteers, and most of us have probably sat back and let them get on with it because on the whole, it's been going well and there's been very little need for the wider fanbase to have to pitch in any more than a bit of extra cash.

The resources needed for the next big development may test this and mean more people need to pitch in to support the infrastructure. If we fail at that we'll have nobody to blame but ourselves.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:
Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:07 pm 
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I have no issue of us going up if we go up, but at the same time I can take it or leave it this season is all.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:27 pm 
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lo36789 wrote:
I have no issue of us going up if we go up, but at the same time I can take it or leave it this season is all.


You posted earlier than you did not want us to go up and that you would be hoping we got beaten in the play-offs.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:44 pm 
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How can we not want it we are in a playoff position so proves the players and management want it just some stupid rule may prevent it or getting beat in playoffs


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:50 pm 
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Yarblockos wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
I have no issue of us going up if we go up, but at the same time I can take it or leave it this season is all.


You posted earlier than you did not want us to go up and that you would be hoping we got beaten in the play-offs.


lo wrote this on another thread - I quote...........


lo36789 wrote:

"Suggestions Martin Gray will up and leave - well so he's not irreplaceable but frankly he ain't going to get a better gig where he can work PT, run his business and actually basically use his position for free advertising of his other business. Gray's blind ambition has contributed to the financial issues faced over the past 4 years if he goes then he goes. The club is greater than Martin Gray."

I like lo and I always read his posts, but this blind ambition thing is nonsense. Gray just does the best he can, and luckily for us he's a capable, ambitious manager.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:32 pm 
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Yarblockos wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
I have no issue of us going up if we go up, but at the same time I can take it or leave it this season is all.


You posted earlier than you did not want us to go up and that you would be hoping we got beaten in the play-offs.


I did. My preference was for another year in conference north as I think long term that would enable a better structure. Just because something isn't what I want doesn't mean I have issue with it?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:44 am 
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I think the problem is that Promotion comes with an expectation of increased budgets and 'better' players.

If we are prepared to accept that this group of players would be representing us in the league above then fine.

If the promotion brings demands for a larger playing budget while we try to bring the club infrastructure up to speed then I understand the concerns.

I would be very surprised if any of us do not want to see the team playing at the highest level achievable but we need buy-in from everybody that if things don't look rosy in the league above we don't put the long term future of the club at risk by increasing the playing budget.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:50 am 
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liamsears wrote:
I think the problem is that Promotion comes with an expectation of increased budgets and 'better' players.

If we are prepared to accept that this group of players would be representing us in the league above then fine.

If the promotion brings demands for a larger playing budget while we try to bring the club infrastructure up to speed then I understand the concerns.

I would be very surprised if any of us do not want to see the team playing at the highest level achievable but we need buy-in from everybody that if things don't look rosy in the league above we don't put the long term future of the club at risk by increasing the playing budget.



Even with this bunch of players assuming no additions etc- playing budget would need to increase because of extra travel costs, overnight stays ( where necessary) and of course extra payments to players if for nothing more than to cover their extra loss of wages from much more travel.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:05 am 
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spen666 wrote:
liamsears wrote:
I think the problem is that Promotion comes with an expectation of increased budgets and 'better' players.

If we are prepared to accept that this group of players would be representing us in the league above then fine.

If the promotion brings demands for a larger playing budget while we try to bring the club infrastructure up to speed then I understand the concerns.

I would be very surprised if any of us do not want to see the team playing at the highest level achievable but we need buy-in from everybody that if things don't look rosy in the league above we don't put the long term future of the club at risk by increasing the playing budget.



Even with this bunch of players assuming no additions etc- playing budget would need to increase because of extra travel costs, overnight stays ( where necessary) and of course extra payments to players if for nothing more than to cover their extra loss of wages from much more travel.


I think my point is that the overheads of playing in the higher league (maybe playing budget was the wrong term) would need to remain at the level set out at the beginning of the season and not increased if results suffered. We need to keep finances front and centre with the work we now all know is needed at BM and we may run the risk of losing a few floating fans due to results.

Not insurmountable if everyone is honest up front about our targets.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:51 pm 
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I've only skim-read all the above but I have not seen one reason why we should not be looking for promotion this season (seats issue aside).

We wouldn't have to materially increase the playing budget; we'd likely get more fans through the gates (even if only away fans); (I believe) we would start at a later stage of the Cup comps with more prize money and finally we'd have the return of the Hartlepool derby matches :lol:

We know it is likely that we would come straight back down so expections would be fully managed. I can see no reason not to want to be promoted (not least because from what I've seen we've got some half-decent players who could hold their own in the division above).

Also, being higher up the pyramid may increase the chances of attracting outside financial support, which I think everybody now accepts will be necessary for the step up to the EFL.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:12 pm 
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We would have to win a cup game to get prize money surely


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:19 pm 
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darlo reborn wrote:
We would have to win a cup game to get prize money surely


Like that's going to happen anytime soon! :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:12 am 
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Beano wrote:
It is ridiculous to say that you don't want promotion or that it would bankrupt us.

The worst that would happen is relegation, without doing any ground work.


Get it now?


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