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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:40 pm 
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Craig09 wrote:
don'tbuythesun wrote:
I'm no structural engineer but can't those seats from bishop but put on a concrete base to make them permanent? Surely someone knows someone who can say if it's feasible?
And I found this
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/9762996 ... nd/?ref=rc



That was my whole idea hopefully this can be looked into


And if yes is there any way of putting such a structure over the pipe if we provide emergency access routes to it?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:00 pm 
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What we need to hear on Friday is that the club have plans to get the ground up to a standard eligible for "membership criteria" of the FL. According to the criteria listed on the following link, that means 5,000 capacity with 2,000 seats.

http://www.efl.com/global/appendix1.aspx

I have my suspicions that when Malcolm Cundick etc. talk about getting the ground up to FL standard, they mean getting it up to "qualification criteria". Then its a case of we'll wait and see. The reason being that if we had a plan to get "membership criteria" we wouldn't have built what we've built. Building another 250 seats is not too difficult, but if we build another section of seated stand next to the one we have then we'll basically be screwed if we want to get FL membership.

We need plans that go through the building work needed to takes us up to each criteria. Building more stands that will have to be knocked down is not the way forward and is going to make is even harder to achieve our goal. I may be wrong of course, but I think what we have now is a plan to get BM up to "qualification criteria" and then we wait for a miracle.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:22 pm 
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Should be fun when we win promotion to the Championship!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:28 am 
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Yarblockos wrote:
We need plans that go through the building work needed to takes us up to each criteria. Building more stands that will have to be knocked down is not the way forward and is going to make is even harder to achieve our goal. I may be wrong of course, but I think what we have now is a plan to get BM up to "qualification criteria" and then we wait for a miracle.


If there are plans for 5,000 that means they have at least plans for admission criteria by definition - not qualification.

My guess is that whatever we have at the moment leaves the clubhouse side untouched and if a miracle happens in next 20 years and we are in our 3rd FL season we will stick up a stand in front of the clubhouse which extends from where the current seats are all the way down to the end of the pitch.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:31 am 
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lo36789 wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
We need plans that go through the building work needed to takes us up to each criteria. Building more stands that will have to be knocked down is not the way forward and is going to make is even harder to achieve our goal. I may be wrong of course, but I think what we have now is a plan to get BM up to "qualification criteria" and then we wait for a miracle.


If there are plans for 5,000 that means they have at least plans for admission criteria by definition - not qualification.

My guess is that whatever we have at the moment leaves the clubhouse side untouched and if a miracle happens in next 20 years and we are in our 3rd FL season we will stick up a stand in front of the clubhouse which extends from where the current seats are all the way down to the end of the pitch.


I think we're going to need a more long term vision than that for fans to invest their hard earned money.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:00 am 
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Yarblockos wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
The only other option on the table was to stay at HP which we would have had to spend money and develop to stay in the Nat League North and would have had a budget deficit or a reduced budget due to not coming back to Darlo. How many would have put money in to develop Heritage Park?


I agree, we had to get back to the town. But there is another stadium in the town already at football league standard.


The board approached them twice and were given no as the answer. Can't move in if the owners don't want you.


Well if that's the case then we had little option, it could be the situation has changed now. More importantly, if BM can't realistically ever be developed to FL league standard (which I fear it can't) should we consider a move?

So you say it would be a waste of money to have spent on Blackwell Meadows yet retrospectively undo some of the work to implement further upgrades, but it wouldn't be a waste to up sticks and move to the Arena (not that this even seems possible) and have to repay the grants given to us?

Of course we don't want to have to alter structures we've spent money putting up, but they were put up as they were to achieve our first goal - a return to Darlington and eligibility for NLN.

I'm sure had the money been there we'd have future proofed these stands, but if it wasn't we had one other option - stay in Bishop Auckland and ultimately miss out on promotion to NLN, let alone the NL.

None of the options are/were perfect but nothing has been from day one of rebuilding the club. We've had to overcome numerous obstacles and we've got over them through accepting compromise.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:
Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:33 am 
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Spyman wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
The only other option on the table was to stay at HP which we would have had to spend money and develop to stay in the Nat League North and would have had a budget deficit or a reduced budget due to not coming back to Darlo. How many would have put money in to develop Heritage Park?


I agree, we had to get back to the town. But there is another stadium in the town already at football league standard.


The board approached them twice and were given no as the answer. Can't move in if the owners don't want you.


Well if that's the case then we had little option, it could be the situation has changed now. More importantly, if BM can't realistically ever be developed to FL league standard (which I fear it can't) should we consider a move?

So you say it would be a waste of money to have spent on Blackwell Meadows yet retrospectively undo some of the work to implement further upgrades, but it wouldn't be a waste to up sticks and move to the Arena (not that this even seems possible) and have to repay the grants given to us?

Of course we don't want to have to alter structures we've spent money putting up, but they were put up as they were to achieve our first goal - a return to Darlington and eligibility for NLN.

I'm sure had the money been there we'd have future proofed these stands, but if it wasn't we had one other option - stay in Bishop Auckland and ultimately miss out on promotion to NLN, let alone the NL.

None of the options are/were perfect but nothing has been from day one of rebuilding the club. We've had to overcome numerous obstacles and we've got over them through accepting compromise.

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Let's say BM is beyond a FL ground... I don't think the club will have wasted money on BM as at the time the arena was off limits so we wouldn't have gone up without it... Maybe we could have developed Bishop temporarily but that would have been no more sound an investment than BM. But if a FL ground isn't possible, I believe we should start to negotiate a deal with Mowden. There is no point in investing another penny in a ground where the Conference is our limit, we will lose fans and wither away to non league obscurity. After events of last week, the club need to provide a clear and approved vision of the long term, including plans for a ground fit for the FL. The board simply stating that it's possible isn't good enough because trust in what they say right now is all but non existent. After what's happened last week would you lay down 3 or even 4 figure sums based on what the board tell you? I certainly wouldn't.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:47 am 
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SwansQuaker83 wrote:
Spyman wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
[quote="super_les_mcjannet"]The only other option on the table was to stay at HP which we would have had to spend money and develop to stay in the Nat League North and would have had a budget deficit or a reduced budget due to not coming back to Darlo. How many would have put money in to develop Heritage Park?


I agree, we had to get back to the town. But there is another stadium in the town already at football league standard.


The board approached them twice and were given no as the answer. Can't move in if the owners don't want you.


Well if that's the case then we had little option, it could be the situation has changed now. More importantly, if BM can't realistically ever be developed to FL league standard (which I fear it can't) should we consider a move?

So you say it would be a waste of money to have spent on Blackwell Meadows yet retrospectively undo some of the work to implement further upgrades, but it wouldn't be a waste to up sticks and move to the Arena (not that this even seems possible) and have to repay the grants given to us?

Of course we don't want to have to alter structures we've spent money putting up, but they were put up as they were to achieve our first goal - a return to Darlington and eligibility for NLN.

I'm sure had the money been there we'd have future proofed these stands, but if it wasn't we had one other option - stay in Bishop Auckland and ultimately miss out on promotion to NLN, let alone the NL.

None of the options are/were perfect but nothing has been from day one of rebuilding the club. We've had to overcome numerous obstacles and we've got over them through accepting compromise.

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Let's say BM is beyond a FL ground... I don't think the club will have wasted money on BM as at the time the arena was off limits so we wouldn't have gone up without it... Maybe we could have developed Bishop temporarily but that would have been no more sound an investment than BM. But if a FL ground isn't possible, I believe we should start to negotiate a deal with Mowden. There is no point in investing another penny in a ground where the Conference is our limit, we will lose fans and wither away to non league obscurity. After events of last week, the club need to provide a clear and approved vision of the long term, including plans for a ground fit for the FL. The board simply stating that it's possible isn't good enough because trust in what they say right now is all but non existent. After what's happened last week would you lay down 3 or even 4 figure sums based on what the board tell you? I certainly wouldn't.[/quote]
I agree, but all that you are doing is speculating that the ground can't be FL standard. While we'd all like to see solid evidence that it can be before investing (ultimately if we're going to play in a ground infinitely that limits us to a particular level, that may as well be NLN as NL), i have no doubt it is possible.

That may well involve knocking down or altering existing structures at some cost - but if that's what it takes and that is the option on the table, so be it. There is clearly enough land around the perimeter of the pitch, even with the water main, to build a suitable ground. This might mean taking out unsuitable elements such as the club house, but if we do this at our expense and provide the rugby club with the same facility they have currently, are they going to stand in the way?

If redevelopment of the club house is not an option, then yes, we'd have to look at taking the roof off the tinshed or the seated stand and expanding those - yes it is more expense and we'd all have loved to have built them bigger at stage one, but that wasn't am option so we have to accept that, decide whether we want to accept the 'wasted money', or accept our limit is the national league.

I'd be amazed, and disappointed, if these issues haven't already been covered and agreed upon in principle at least. If not, then questions can be asked.

Personally if we could never progress beyond the NL then I'd say why waste the money on getting to the NL in the first place.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:
Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:10 am 
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Just as well Mowden are really thriving at the Arena and the ground isn't once again sucking the cash out of a club at the rate of knots and leading to big losses with worries about the future. Oh, hang on....

And, of course, Darlington FC fans have a great love for the stadium and what a fantastic football experience it is with less than 2,000 supporters inside that giant bowl. Some of you need to give your heads a shake and help to make the best out of the path we are following.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:19 pm 
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Ive posted a picture on the facebook group The Ti Shed showing a stand similar to the ones at bishop but these are made permanent with a roof on. Im not sure how to upload on here as im using through a browser but it looks a good stand but very basic but what we need


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:22 pm 
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Actually found it on google but something like this we do us


https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=seats ... UzpnRIGLlM:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:33 pm 
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I've found one as well...

http://www.darlingtonfcsupportersgroup. ... -1-500.jpg

The estimates are we need to raise £150k to fund a stand like that (plus other commitments potentially...)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:46 pm 
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I was showing the frame work from a side on shot but no doubt our stand will ne the same but i just couldnt find a photo to show


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:52 pm 
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Has anyone sought to answer what a temporary seat is and what makes a seat permanent?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:54 pm 
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lo36789 wrote:
I've found one as well...

http://www.darlingtonfcsupportersgroup. ... -1-500.jpg

The estimates are we need to raise £150k to fund a stand like that (plus other commitments potentially...)


Which would need to be demolished if we want to get back in the FL. Why not use the 150K towards something we can keep? The idea of adding to those seats and then hoping we will one day have the millions needed develop the club house seems to me to be a strategy of waiting for a miracle to happen.


Last edited by Yarblockos on Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:54 pm 
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spen666 wrote:
Has anyone sought to answer what a temporary seat is and what makes a seat permanent?


How will that help?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Yarblockos wrote:
Which would need to be demolished if we want to get back in the FL. Why not use the 150K towards something we can keep? The idea of having enough money to develop the club house seems to me to be a strategy of waiting for a miracle to happen.


You've tasked them with having a strategy for a ground suitable after 3 years of FL football. That's a miracle in it's own right so why not invoke another miracle when an initial one happens.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:14 pm 
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lo36789 wrote:
spen666 wrote:
Has anyone sought to answer what a temporary seat is and what makes a seat permanent?


How will that help?



Erm well if temporary seats are not allowed but permanent ones are, it would help to know what you are talking about.

After recent confusion about how many seats are needed, it would be sensible to ensure that seats being installed will be classified as permanent by the FA. It would also answer whether the seats at Bishop are a red herring or potentially useful

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:19 pm 
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lo36789 wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
Which would need to be demolished if we want to get back in the FL. Why not use the 150K towards something we can keep? The idea of having enough money to develop the club house seems to me to be a strategy of waiting for a miracle to happen.


You've tasked them with having a strategy for a ground suitable after 3 years of FL football. That's a miracle in it's own right so why not invoke another miracle when an initial one happens.


So your big idea is that we won't plan for being in the FL because we'll never get there anyway?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:47 pm 
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As a suggestion would turning the tin shed into a all seater stand be an option and putting a open terrace where the away fans are ???? Bit like the old south stand at feethams


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:41 pm 
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Yarblockos wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
Which would need to be demolished if we want to get back in the FL. Why not use the 150K towards something we can keep? The idea of having enough money to develop the club house seems to me to be a strategy of waiting for a miracle to happen.


You've tasked them with having a strategy for a ground suitable after 3 years of FL football. That's a miracle in it's own right so why not invoke another miracle when an initial one happens.


So your big idea is that we won't plan for being in the FL because we'll never get there anyway?


No my plan is to have something that might be quite aspirational but that goes hand in hand with the objective being quite aspirational.

There is a fair distance between the clubhouse and the pitch where the existing seats are...it really isn't that unreasonable to think that area (not a complete redevelopment of the clubhouse) could be developed.

I am not that averse to the idea of re-doing the existing stands though either. I really think that the time we will need to do it some other clubs will have built, demolished and re-built parts of their grounds.

I would be averse to it if it meant prevention of us reaching the 5,000 capacity but 2,000 seats is so so far off needing to be in place.

Craig actually makes a fair point about converting the Tin Shed. We'd probably get 600 to 700 seats out of that.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:37 pm 
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lo36789 wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
Which would need to be demolished if we want to get back in the FL. Why not use the 150K towards something we can keep? The idea of having enough money to develop the club house seems to me to be a strategy of waiting for a miracle to happen.


You've tasked them with having a strategy for a ground suitable after 3 years of FL football. That's a miracle in it's own right so why not invoke another miracle when an initial one happens.


So your big idea is that we won't plan for being in the FL because we'll never get there anyway?


No my plan is to have something that might be quite aspirational but that goes hand in hand with the objective being quite aspirational.

There is a fair distance between the clubhouse and the pitch where the existing seats are...it really isn't that unreasonable to think that area (not a complete redevelopment of the clubhouse) could be developed.

I am not that averse to the idea of re-doing the existing stands though either. I really think that the time we will need to do it some other clubs will have built, demolished and re-built parts of their grounds.

I would be averse to it if it meant prevention of us reaching the 5,000 capacity but 2,000 seats is so so far off needing to be in place.

Craig actually makes a fair point about converting the Tin Shed. We'd probably get 600 to 700 seats out of that.


Slide the pitch a few yards to the right. Problem solved...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:01 pm 
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Craig actually makes a fair point about converting the Tin Shed. We'd probably get 600 to 700 seats out of that.[/quote]


Some folk have said get rid of the tin shed and build a bigger stand but why waste money doing that when you can just convert it into a seating stand. All these suggestions but wheres the money coming from lol


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:14 pm 
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Craig09 wrote:
Craig actually makes a fair point about converting the Tin Shed. We'd probably get 600 to 700 seats out of that.



Some folk have said get rid of the tin shed and build a bigger stand but why waste money doing that when you can just convert it into a seating stand. All these suggestions but wheres the money coming from lol[/quote]

Us... the fans... Those who have no right to speak unless we create detailed plans with full costing and put ourselves forward for a place on the board.

And when we get promoted then the FSIF.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:52 pm 
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Think Craig may have hit on something. Tin Shed with 700 seats means we would need a deepish stand opposite the clubhouse for 1300 (moving rugby pitches is hardly a difficult thing to do and much cheaper than building around the clubhouse or knocking down Tin Shed. We would then use the undeveloped end plus other bits of area to get the 3000 standing on terracing. It costs what it costs but this reduces the need to replace and demolish which isn't just a "waste of money" but has a cost attached to it as I pointed out above.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:57 pm 
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The other advantage would be that if we can get 730 odd seats into the tin shed we already meet the first phase of the FL target of 1000 seats in two stands which would give us 3 years to raise money for the deeper stands on the side opposite club house.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:02 pm 
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dfcdfcdfc wrote:
The other advantage would be that if we can get 730 odd seats into the tin shed we already meet the first phase of the FL target of 1000 seats in two stands which would give us 3 years to raise money for the deeper stands on the side opposite club house.


Certainly gets us to where we need to be quicker. I still think that long term, moving the pitch to the right so that the pipe intersects the corners makes sense. Never know, we may need the space when we do a Swansea/Bournemouth


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:08 pm 
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Some one did mention on the forum that if we put seats in the tin shed we lose a % of our capacity is that true ? Thats why i also mentioned putting a south stand style terracing at the away end then that leaves the side with the actual seat side on to maybe develope in the future.

Ive had all sorts of ideas running through my head and ones that could help us with the water main pipe problem ie moving the portable toilets where the main pipe goes across the pitch then build the seating stand at the side of the toilet block. Then if any problems do occur instead of moving a permanent fixed stand you just move a portable toilet block.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:12 pm 
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SwansQuaker83 wrote:
dfcdfcdfc wrote:
The other advantage would be that if we can get 730 odd seats into the tin shed we already meet the first phase of the FL target of 1000 seats in two stands which would give us 3 years to raise money for the deeper stands on the side opposite club house.


Certainly gets us to where we need to be quicker. I still think that long term, moving the pitch to the right so that the pipe intersects the corners makes sense. Never know, we may need the space when we do a Swansea/Bournemouth


Sliding the pitch does make sense. The cost of moving the tin shed would be a concern, as would whether the rugby club would be happy with their balcony and club house being stuck in the corner of the ground.

Really not sure you are going to get that many seats in the tin shed. I don't think the steps are wide enough to give you the leg room needed for seats as they are, so maybe something like 600 seats max. Plus I like standing in the tin shed, its the only decent view at the moment!

Any plan that works I am happy with.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:19 pm 
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We could possibly make the tin shed into something like this


https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fylde ... 19W6BgiSQM:



Also if anyone went to fylde there other 2 stands were just covered terracing with one main seating stand but heres fyldes standing terraces.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fylde ... luTTe-wCkM:


Last edited by Craig09 on Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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