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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:35 am 
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Here is my attempt at how to develop BM without knocking down the club house, moving the pipe, or moving the tinshed.

I have had to guess on the hard standing by working out people per row in the tin shed and using 3-4 people deep on the standing areas.

People say you can't extend rows on to the seated stands but surely this is exactly what is going on in the Premier League - Man City/United, Liverpool etc. all are building upwards on their existing seats with new tiers and then putting on new roofs. If each block of 295 seats costs around £150k to install, then yes we are in for some expensive work but perhaps there is savings on buying more than one block at a time.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:08 am 
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Don't know why we'd go for 3,000 seats like?

The difference is the type of structure we have. Old Trafford / Anfield are purpose built stands. We have an off the shelf module of seats, fixed to the ground with a roof over the top.

I suspect the next stage of development is the extra seats alongside the existing stand. That would take us to 500. Just because we do this as our next stage doesn't mean anything in terms of long term ambition.

Maybe it is just me, but I wouldn't see a huge amount of problem with building a biggish (1,500) terrace at the end opposite the tin shed as well. I think that would pretty much give us 5,000 / 500.

The next stage of plans will either by to add a 1,000 seated stand in front of the clubhouse (basically double the size of the existing stand which will be opposite), or replace the current stand with a 2,000 seater stand. I would have thought that a fair amount of the existing stand could be salvaged and either re-used or sold.

By the time this become relevant we will be eligible for a brand new set of grants at FL level, which I think is a £500,000 grant.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:20 am 
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lo36789 wrote:
Don't know why we'd go for 3,000 seats like?

The difference is the type of structure we have. Old Trafford / Anfield are purpose built stands. We have an off the shelf module of seats, fixed to the ground with a roof over the top.

I suspect the next stage of development is the extra seats alongside the existing stand. That would take us to 500. Just because we do this as our next stage doesn't mean anything in terms of long term ambition.

Maybe it is just me, but I wouldn't see a huge amount of problem with building a biggish (1,500) terrace at the end opposite the tin shed as well. I think that would pretty much give us 5,000 / 500.

The next stage of plans will either by to add a 1,000 seated stand in front of the clubhouse (basically double the size of the existing stand which will be opposite), or replace the current stand with a 2,000 seater stand. I would have thought that a fair amount of the existing stand could be salvaged and either re-used or sold.

By the time this become relevant we will be eligible for a brand new set of grants at FL level, which I think is a £500,000 grant.


Because adding seats is the only way we can get the overall capacity to over 5000.

A big terrace behind the goal would be an option, but would need to be similar to the old Feethams south stand in height and only approx half way across. I think the old Polam terrace held about 2000 people - so you'd get half that only. Overall capacity would not reach the 5000.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:29 am 
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I think it's safe to say that we need to have two sets of plans. A short term plan to get us up to the 500 seats by March 2018, enabling us to minimise any stalling on the pitch - it seems the team is near enough ready for promotion and we need to support this ambition next season.

We then need a longer term set of plans to get the 5000/2000 in place. I'd say that's a 5 year minimum project in terms of development and funding. We'd have the three year window once we actually reached the football league, and in all honesty despite the tremendous progress we've made on the pitch, a promotion from the National League to League two is not going to happen overnight. 5 years gives us a minimum 2 years to achieve that promotion - in reality I'd say giving ourselves 8-10 years to hit the 5000/2000 ground is realistic, and still a huge amount of uncertainty as to how relevant those timescales would be.

Look how far we've progressed off the pitch in 5 years - i have no doubt that in another 8 years we can have a football league ground.

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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:40 am 
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feethams wrote:
.....

Because adding seats is the only way we can get the overall capacity to over 5000.





Seating takes up more space than standing. You can get roughly 1.5 standing spaces in the same space as 1 seat

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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:51 am 
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LoidLucan wrote:
Most sensible people would prefer to get all the facts, figures, explanations, plans, costings and ideas before coming to a proper conclusion.


Totally agree .. however we seem not to be dealing with "most people" rather 3 or 4 contributors, mostly seemingly remote supporters , and in some cases using that as their excuse not to serve.

Where were these "wise words" before , during the construction of BM? Is this simply a case of "I know what we should have done" Here you are suggesting all manner of solutions, without it seems to me any great grasp of any details. Accept the challenge that you can do better, not just on the keyboard but at a practical level. Hindsight what is it they say ?

Finally, I do not know what Richard Cooks motivation to resign was, again on other threads some seem to know more about his reasons than he does. What I do know is that Richard put his shoulder to the coalface, got on with his work stream and actually achieved what many were starting to doubt. The club has in my opinion lost a valuable board member and as such the club is weakened.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:55 am 
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Image

Version 2 with terrace at the open end similar sized to old Polam Terrace.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:06 pm 
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feethams wrote:
Image

Version 2 with terrace at the open end similar sized to old Polam Terrace.


You've got some of the figures wrong. Tin shed holds 902 with 8 rows. The seated stand holds 269.

So that's 112 people per row in a terrace. You only have half the open end to develop, 56 per row. So to get a terrace of 1245 you'd need 22 rows.

You'll also need 8 sections of seating. There isn't room to fit another 269 seated stand to the left of the tinsehd, the water pipe exclusion zone is wider than shown.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:14 pm 
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tezza wrote:
Totally agree .. however we seem not to be dealing with "most people" rather 3 or 4 contributors, mostly seemingly remote supporters , and in some cases using that as their excuse not to serve.

Where were these "wise words" before , during the construction of BM? Is this simply a case of "I know what we should have done" Here you are suggesting all manner of solutions, without it seems to me any great grasp of any details. Accept the challenge that you can do better, not just on the keyboard but at a practical level. Hindsight what is it they say ?

Finally, I do not know what Richard Cooks motivation to resign was, again on other threads some seem to know more about his reasons than he does. What I do know is that Richard put his shoulder to the coalface, got on with his work stream and actually achieved what many were starting to doubt. The club has in my opinion lost a valuable board member and as such the club is weakened.


I didn't raise these concerns before the move to BM because I trusted the board knew what they were doing. Just like you did. Now I don't.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:05 pm 
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H1987 wrote:
I've been doodling again (because i've been bored) :mrgreen:

Image

I guess you might be able to get 5000:2000 in this way? Building deeper seating behind the goal? I honestly don't know how we can even get 1,000 seats in the ground in any other way, let alone 2,000, if we make behind the goal a terrace? It'd obviously boost capacity short term, but the other little spaces in corners, i think you'd have to make terracing? So where are you going to put the seats we need?

It also makes sense to put seats there because there is no floodlights that need moving. Remember, a third of behind the goal would remain hard standing and you could put a small terrace in that corner, which presumably could be an away end. You could also allocate away fans a small number of seats (which you are required to at FL level?)

The only other possibility *might* be if we're allowed to install rail seating if the rules change in this country, as they have in Scotland. Giving us a higher capacity if the end is used as terracing, or a smaller capacity but with more seats if needed. Maybe, in future, that might be possible.

I don't think the Arena is a realistic possibility, we are here now, we have to make it work. I also don't ever want to see us play there again.


Have to say. Looking at the aerial view here with the pipe... If you slide the pitch to the right a few feet and move the tin shed with it, that pretty much completely sorts out our problem. There's loads of space behind the goal at the other end, there will then be room to deepen the tin shed, the clubhouse will then be in the corner leaving the rest of that side free to build on, the blasted pipe will then only intersect two corners and the whole of the far side and behind the other goal will be free to build on... You could leave the seated stand so you'd only need to move the tin shed... Looking at Google earth you'd only lose one rugby pitch... This seems to me to be the easiest and cheapest way to do it and would give us a FL ground no problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:15 pm 
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Yarblockos wrote:
You've got some of the figures wrong. Tin shed holds 902 with 8 rows. The seated stand holds 269.


Current capacity is 3,300 as well I thought not 3,000. It is only 3,000 if we segregate with seemingly massive barriers.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:19 pm 
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Yarblockos wrote:
feethams wrote:
Image

Version 2 with terrace at the open end similar sized to old Polam Terrace.


You've got some of the figures wrong. Tin shed holds 902 with 8 rows. The seated stand holds 269.

So that's 112 people per row in a terrace. You only have half the open end to develop, 56 per row. So to get a terrace of 1245 you'd need 22 rows.

You'll also need 8 sections of seating. There isn't room to fit another 269 seated stand to the left of the tinsehd, the water pipe exclusion zone is wider than shown.


Is a rough illustration Yarblockos. I'm not applying for planning permission. Just sketching what could be done without moving the pipe/tinshed/club house.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:39 pm 
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Yarblockos wrote:
feethams wrote:
Image

Version 2 with terrace at the open end similar sized to old Polam Terrace.


You've got some of the figures wrong. Tin shed holds 902 with 8 rows. The seated stand holds 269.

So that's 112 people per row in a terrace. You only have half the open end to develop, 56 per row. So to get a terrace of 1245 you'd need 22 rows.

You'll also need 8 sections of seating. There isn't room to fit another 269 seated stand to the left of the tinsehd, the water pipe exclusion zone is wider than shown.


The tinshed holds 1,000.

I know it says approx 902 or something on the original plans, but it's been given a capacity of 1,000.

The seated stand was announced by the club as 294 or 297 when we got the ground grading, I can't remember which. But it was not 269 if I recall correctly.

Finally, I'd estimate that we have around 2/3rds of the open end to develop because the standing area is set well back from the pitch and the pipe is on a diagonal.

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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:49 pm 
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Looking forward to you all giving a full and informative presentation, with cost projections, benefits etc. this Friday, just after you have announced that you will be seeking election to the board.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:52 pm 
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Yarblockos wrote:
tezza wrote:
Totally agree .. however we seem not to be dealing with "most people" rather 3 or 4 contributors, mostly seemingly remote supporters , and in some cases using that as their excuse not to serve.

Where were these "wise words" before , during the construction of BM? Is this simply a case of "I know what we should have done" Here you are suggesting all manner of solutions, without it seems to me any great grasp of any details. Accept the challenge that you can do better, not just on the keyboard but at a practical level. Hindsight what is it they say ?

Finally, I do not know what Richard Cooks motivation to resign was, again on other threads some seem to know more about his reasons than he does. What I do know is that Richard put his shoulder to the coalface, got on with his work stream and actually achieved what many were starting to doubt. The club has in my opinion lost a valuable board member and as such the club is weakened.


I didn't raise these concerns before the move to BM because I trusted the board knew what they were doing. Just like you did. Now I don't.



Really and here is me thinking it was because your "crystal ball" had packed up ...oh well enough prophets around at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:10 pm 
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tezza wrote:
Looking forward to you all giving a full and informative presentation, with cost projections, benefits etc. this Friday, just after you have announced that you will be seeking election to the board.


Say what you want about sounding off on forums or social media, if it hadn't happened our board would still expecting us to be promoted


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:29 pm 
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Just looked at the Stadium Solutions website under the FAQ 'If we buy a stand now can we extend it in the future' and the answer is:
'Yes, all our stands are built in a modular design and are easily extended or moved. Start small and let your stand grow with your club'.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:28 pm 
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Vodka_Vic wrote:
Just looked at the Stadium Solutions website under the FAQ 'If we buy a stand now can we extend it in the future' and the answer is:
'Yes, all our stands are built in a modular design and are easily extended or moved. Start small and let your stand grow with your club'.


In which case sliding the pitch a few metres to the rights makes sense... Moving the tin shed forward with it will be affordable on this basis and this gives us the entire perimeter to play with, with the exception of the clubhouse. Plenty of space for a FL ground


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:55 pm 
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SwansQuaker83 wrote:
Vodka_Vic wrote:
Just looked at the Stadium Solutions website under the FAQ 'If we buy a stand now can we extend it in the future' and the answer is:
'Yes, all our stands are built in a modular design and are easily extended or moved. Start small and let your stand grow with your club'.


In which case sliding the pitch a few metres to the rights makes sense... Moving the tin shed forward with it will be affordable on this basis and this gives us the entire perimeter to play with, with the exception of the clubhouse. Plenty of space for a FL ground


Quiet unbelievable, bordering on stupidity, even allowing that you may be Welsh. Without a single quotation or knowing the size of financial resource, you can state the first half baked solution that comes along as "affordable" . Clearly the man to fill Richard Cooks shoes...not.... And all by remote management and decision making If only you were closer we would all feel less safe


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:31 pm 
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tezza wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
Vodka_Vic wrote:
Just looked at the Stadium Solutions website under the FAQ 'If we buy a stand now can we extend it in the future' and the answer is:
'Yes, all our stands are built in a modular design and are easily extended or moved. Start small and let your stand grow with your club'.


In which case sliding the pitch a few metres to the rights makes sense... Moving the tin shed forward with it will be affordable on this basis and this gives us the entire perimeter to play with, with the exception of the clubhouse. Plenty of space for a FL ground


Quiet unbelievable, bordering on stupidity, even allowing that you may be Welsh. Without a single quotation or knowing the size of financial resource, you can state the first half baked solution that comes along as "affordable" . Clearly the man to fill Richard Cooks shoes...not.... And all by remote management and decision making If only you were closer we would all feel less safe


What was it Cook left for again? Personal abuse? I can't believe that. No Darlo fans would stoop to that level...

Why don't you offer something to the debate instead of slinging bigoted abuse about?


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:35 pm 
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Yes, no need for the Welsh comment nor the digs at those of us who, by the way, have contributed but are too far away to steward or volunteer at the club. Thought we were all in this together?


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:48 pm 
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don'tbuythesun wrote:
Yes, no need for the Welsh comment nor the digs at those of us who, by the way, have contributed but are too far away to steward or volunteer at the club. Thought we were all in this together?


Thank you. Well said.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:58 pm 
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Just looking at Newton Aycliffe FC stand , in 2010/11 it cost £20k for a 113 seat stand .
Wonder how much a 240 odd one would cost?

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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:19 pm 
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BUSHEAD wrote:
Just looking at Newton Aycliffe FC stand , in 2010/11 it cost £20k for a 113 seat stand .
Wonder how much a 240 odd one would cost?


This one?

http://facupgroundhopper.blogspot.co.uk ... t.html?m=1


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:47 pm 
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SwansQuaker83 wrote:
BUSHEAD wrote:
Just looking at Newton Aycliffe FC stand , in 2010/11 it cost £20k for a 113 seat stand .
Wonder how much a 240 odd one would cost?


This one?

http://facupgroundhopper.blogspot.co.uk ... t.html?m=1



Read the article.

That was the Durham Challenge Cup Final played at Eppleton Colleries ground.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:12 pm 
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Darlo Since 68 wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
BUSHEAD wrote:
Just looking at Newton Aycliffe FC stand , in 2010/11 it cost £20k for a 113 seat stand .
Wonder how much a 240 odd one would cost?


This one?

http://facupgroundhopper.blogspot.co.uk ... t.html?m=1



Read the article.

That was the Durham Challenge Cup Final played at Eppleton Colleries ground.


So it was


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:41 pm 
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http://www.newtonnews.co.uk/wp-content/ ... 7-5-10.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:57 am 
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don'tbuythesun wrote:
Yes, no need for the Welsh comment nor the digs at those of us who, by the way, have contributed but are too far away to steward or volunteer at the club. Thought we were all in this together?

Distance does not have to be a barrier for those that have the time. A steward travels from London and another fan does sterling work from Georgia


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:44 am 
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And I have the greatest respect for those people.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:48 am 
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SwansQuaker83 wrote:
tezza wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
Vodka_Vic wrote:
Just looked at the Stadium Solutions website under the FAQ 'If we buy a stand now can we extend it in the future' and the answer is:
'Yes, all our stands are built in a modular design and are easily extended or moved. Start small and let your stand grow with your club'.


In which case sliding the pitch a few metres to the rights makes sense... Moving the tin shed forward with it will be affordable on this basis and this gives us the entire perimeter to play with, with the exception of the clubhouse. Plenty of space for a FL ground


Quiet unbelievable, bordering on stupidity, even allowing that you may be Welsh. Without a single quotation or knowing the size of financial resource, you can state the first half baked solution that comes along as "affordable" . Clearly the man to fill Richard Cooks shoes...not.... And all by remote management and decision making If only you were closer we would all feel less safe


What was it Cook left for again? Personal abuse? I can't believe that. No Darlo fans would stoop to that level...

Why don't you offer something to the debate instead of slinging bigoted abuse about?



Sounds very much like can give it but cant take it to me


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