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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:07 am 
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Quakerz wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
feethams wrote:
Image

Version 2 with terrace at the open end similar sized to old Polam Terrace.


You've got some of the figures wrong. Tin shed holds 902 with 8 rows. The seated stand holds 269.

So that's 112 people per row in a terrace. You only have half the open end to develop, 56 per row. So to get a terrace of 1245 you'd need 22 rows.

You'll also need 8 sections of seating. There isn't room to fit another 269 seated stand to the left of the tinsehd, the water pipe exclusion zone is wider than shown.


The tinshed holds 1,000.

I know it says approx 902 or something on the original plans, but it's been given a capacity of 1,000.

The seated stand was announced by the club as 294 or 297 when we got the ground grading, I can't remember which. But it was not 269 if I recall correctly.

Finally, I'd estimate that we have around 2/3rds of the open end to develop because the standing area is set well back from the pitch and the pipe is on a diagonal.


Thank you Quakerz.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:32 am 
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Shut up, Ted.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:
Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:50 am 
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The original approved plans for BM did have 500+ covered seats as this image shows - towards the open end of the ground.

Image

Presumably, to get out of this league - we just need to buy and install this second block. I don't have access to the finer details of this, but I know £150k has been used quoted on the message board for this?

I have edited in to this photo an additional block of the seats on the otherside of the pipe. Yes they will fit, although the view might not be ideal for those on the front row. And we'd have to move the wooden hut snack bar.

Or you could by one block, split it in two and add half to the open end side / half to the tin shed side. If that makes sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:40 am 
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I wonder if we could also fit a block of 6 rows on the clubhouse side where they already have 3 rows of unused seats, none of which count towards the seating capacity? If we did that, we'd need to obviously take the existing seat structure out, possibly extend the roof a little, and do something to the dugouts. It may turn out expensive to install a block of 300 seats there, but if we do, and we eventually have 3 blocks on the other side, we'd have 1200ish home seats?

Then if we ever get promoted from the conference, use new grant money to partially fund a 1200 seat 2/3rds width stand in the open end - then we have an away end large enough for good league followings and 2,000+ seats. Whether we'd achieve 5,000 capacity though, is another question.

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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:20 pm 
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feethams wrote:
The original approved plans for BM did have 500+ covered seats as this image shows - towards the open end of the ground.

Image

Presumably, to get out of this league - we just need to buy and install this second block. I don't have access to the finer details of this, but I know £150k has been used quoted on the message board for this?

I have edited in to this photo an additional block of the seats on the otherside of the pipe. Yes they will fit, although the view might not be ideal for those on the front row. And we'd have to move the wooden hut snack bar.

Or you could by one block, split it in two and add half to the open end side / half to the tin shed side. If that makes sense.

Image


Ok so based on those plans. Slide the pitch to the left so the pipe intersects the top left and bottom right corners, put the seats to the right of the pipe on the other side of it so that side has 3 maybe 4 blocks of seating together... Then the area behind the left hand goal is all free so we don't need to touch the clubhouse, you'll actually have a bit of that side to put another small stand on as the club house will be to the right of the pitch...


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:27 pm 
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No one mentions the red seats. In the short term, i wonder if it's worthwhile detaching them (they are only screwed into their footings) and moving them forwards towards the pitch. As suggested, it won't count towards ground grading, but it will provide circa 160 extra seating spaces for those who find it difficult to stand for 90 minutes. Quakerz, fyi, the little roof can't be used for any more rows as it's too low for another step...it would probably fail the green guide now.

Regards the clubhouse side, it is possible to build a structure in front of it (the entire length of the pitch) to house a considerable number of seats (enough for FL membership), but it would need approval from the rugby club, and a clever architect to design a free standing roof which doesn't affect the clubhouse itself. This side is the key to the whole site. It would probably end up looking something a bit like Accrington's main stand, but it would tick all the boxes. In my mind, this would only happen should we reach the football league.

Following on from the additional seats to get the ground up to category b+ standard, the cheapest option is a large open terrace on the open end. There is enough space for a 1500+ terrace at that end (as far as the 6 year line). The issue isn't just plopping a terrace on there though. Facilities need to be factored in. Look at Maidstone's new terrace. It holds 1800, and has space underneath. It also cost 800k, so we probably won't be seeing it, but with clever design (it has a steep rake) the extra space required can be achieved on the existing plot. For example, subtle (non structural) changes to the tin shed can eek out another 100 spaces or so.

Swans. Will you please give it a rest with the same statement. The pitch will not be moved southwards/westwards or in any direction. As simple as it is on paper, it's not on the cards, certainly not at this point in time. I agree with you. My original suggestion was to move the pitch southwards (creating space in front of the clubhouse), but it was a non starter.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:58 pm 
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dickdarlington wrote:
Swans. Will you please give it a rest with the same statement. The pitch will not be moved southwards/westwards or in any direction. As simple as it is on paper, it's not on the cards, certainly not at this point in time.


Agreed the time to move the pitch was before all the ground works, all the hard standing, the dugouts were put in place, the pitch barriers were built, the Tin Shed was built etc. etc.

You would basically have to start the ground build again. Feethams has it right there is enough space to create a 600-700 seats in 2 stands on the near side.

We would then initially build a terrace. I checked you can get about 60% of the tin shed into the gap between edge of pitch and the pipe. If you double the depth that is a 1200 capacity terrace - tbh we may have to go even further than that though - target has to be 1500 I think.

There is actually sufficient space on the plans to put two 500 stands either side of where the dugouts are sitting. That would give us 1,650ish seats and easily a 5000 capacity.

I honestly don't know where you get the extra 350 seats from. I'd figure it would all need to be in the clubhouse side. We would basically be looking for a 1,300-1,400 seater stand at that side.

dickdarlington wrote:
It would probably end up looking something a bit like Accrington's main stand, but it would tick all the boxes. In my mind, this would only happen should we reach the football league.


Agreed and we will have 3 years to do it. I am just concerned the club are going to announce that development on that side is the plan and certain people are going to say "but how do we know the rugby club will allow it when the time comes".


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:44 pm 
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dickdarlington wrote:

Swans. Will you please give it a rest with the same statement. The pitch will not be moved southwards/westwards or in any direction. As simple as it is on paper, it's not on the cards, certainly not at this point in time. I agree with you. My original suggestion was to move the pitch southwards (creating space in front of the clubhouse), but it was a non starter.


So when you asked the question you just got a no with no reason then? There are dozens of ideas on here that fall into the bracket of things we could do that have already been asked about and not done... There are 5 pages on the Bishop seats for example


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:04 pm 
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lo36789 wrote:
I am just concerned the club are going to announce that development on that side is the plan and certain people are going to say "but how do we know the rugby club will allow it when the time comes".


Which let's face it is a very fair question to ask...


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:31 pm 
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SwansQuaker83 wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
I am just concerned the club are going to announce that development on that side is the plan and certain people are going to say "but how do we know the rugby club will allow it when the time comes".


Which let's face it is a very fair question to ask...


Yes but what level of answer are you prepared to accept? That is the challenge.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:06 pm 
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Would the red seats be temporary enough to go at the open end over the dreaded pipe. That way we could give away fans a few seats when we segregate.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:07 pm 
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lo36789 wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
I am just concerned the club are going to announce that development on that side is the plan and certain people are going to say "but how do we know the rugby club will allow it when the time comes".


Which let's face it is a very fair question to ask...


Yes but what level of answer are you prepared to accept? That is the challenge.


The additonal seats beside the existing stand already have planning permission, and the rugby club have approved.

The steps beyond that will have to have involvement from the rugby club, council, possibly northumbrian water (even constructing near the pipe will require heavy machinery to cross it etc). So when it comes to the plan for the development once in the conference and beyond, the rugby club will be acutely aware of what is needed. If they say no, then other avenues will have to be followed, but it is in their interest to keep us on board. They have to accept that the football club is now their primary source of income. They need to ensure that is maintained. But i can imagine there will be some challenging conversations ahead. Bottom line is, if the ground can be developed to FL standards (which it can), and it is blocked, the reasons will need to be cast iron, otherwise there could be grounds for the football club to terminate the agreement that is in place. That is purely conjecture by me of course.

SwansQuaker83 wrote:
So when you asked the question you just got a no with no reason then? There are dozens of ideas on here that fall into the bracket of things we could do that have already been asked about and not done...


All ideas will be floated in due course i am certain of that. But the bottom line is cost, and what is permitted to be done. The movement of the pitch southwards was declined because the rugby club need x number of pitches. Now, if the football club were to suggest preparing the land elsewhere that might be an option...but again this comes down to money that simply doesn't exist.

A small thing to consider, not that it would be a massive obsticle is there is a public footpath that runs right across the back of the open end. Encroaching on it would require engaging with the relevant authorities about that too. A little thing, but one that would cost.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:11 pm 
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lo36789 wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
I am just concerned the club are going to announce that development on that side is the plan and certain people are going to say "but how do we know the rugby club will allow it when the time comes".


Which let's face it is a very fair question to ask...


Yes but what level of answer are you prepared to accept? That is the challenge.


I expect there to be a realistic outline of a plan to have been agreed, in principle, by the rugby club. It's not a challenge, its a real practical conern for many Darlo fans. Long term planning is not the stuff of fantasies, and we need to have done it. The club wants our money to build for the future, I want to know they are not wasting it.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:21 pm 
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The Club want your money but it's all via community shares which are repayable, they want to loan it

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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:29 pm 
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Undercovered wrote:
The Club want your money but it's all via community shares which are repayable, they want to loan it


Well said.

Unlike the "Board in Waiting" who seem willing to play fast and loose with ideas and funds.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:30 pm 
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I honestly can't understand that in this day and age with the technology available that designers can't come up with some kind of removable bridging solution to span this sodding pipe.God forbid it ever needs digging up at any time or we're knackered.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:31 pm 
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Undercovered wrote:
The Club want your money but it's all via community shares which are repayable, they want to loan it


So you think that means the money can't be wasted?


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:32 pm 
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tezza wrote:
Undercovered wrote:
The Club want your money but it's all via community shares which are repayable, they want to loan it


Well said.

Unlike the "Board in Waiting" who seem willing to play fast and loose with ideas and funds.


Are you going to the fans forum on Friday?


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:33 pm 
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Emdubya wrote:
I honestly can't understand that in this day and age with the technology available that designers can't come up with some kind of removable bridging solution to span this sodding pipe.God forbid it ever needs digging up at any time or we're knackered.

Indeed.

I'm worried about spending a load of money on the pitch, and then it getting dug up. I would hope there would be grounds for compensation in such an instance, as that could cause real trouble for the club.

I'll be honest, one of my main issues with the pipe though is that we'll end up with a really lopsided ground, which is going to annoy me in future :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:42 pm 
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I think this would be a plan heading towards FL status

Image

1. Build up the seated stands and add sections to either side. We know we can do this, as the stands are similar to those on the Stadium Solutions site, which states they allow for adding additional sections. It would be tight, but i'd like to think it be possible to get 2000 seats on this side of the ground but we'd have to go backwards to the land behind.

2. Open end terrace, based on the sizing of the tinshed, i'd aim for 18 steps which should give around 1700 standing cap.

These plus the tin shed 1000 and the hard standing around the club house would give the 5000 overall?


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:45 pm 
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Yarblockos wrote:
tezza wrote:
Undercovered wrote:
The Club want your money but it's all via community shares which are repayable, they want to loan it


Well said.

Unlike the "Board in Waiting" who seem willing to play fast and loose with ideas and funds.


Are you going to the fans forum on Friday?


Why ?


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:49 pm 
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feethams wrote:
.....but we'd have to go backwards to the land behind.

...



so you don't think the Rugby club are going to have something to say about your proposed building on another pitch?

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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:50 pm 
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tezza wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
tezza wrote:
Undercovered wrote:
The Club want your money but it's all via community shares which are repayable, they want to loan it


Well said.

Unlike the "Board in Waiting" who seem willing to play fast and loose with ideas and funds.


Are you going to the fans forum on Friday?


Why ?


How are you going to cope with people criticising the board? Are you going to shout them down or are you going to hit them?


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:14 pm 
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dickdarlington wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
I am just concerned the club are going to announce that development on that side is the plan and certain people are going to say "but how do we know the rugby club will allow it when the time comes".


Which let's face it is a very fair question to ask...


Yes but what level of answer are you prepared to accept? That is the challenge.


The additonal seats beside the existing stand already have planning permission, and the rugby club have approved.

The steps beyond that will have to have involvement from the rugby club, council, possibly northumbrian water (even constructing near the pipe will require heavy machinery to cross it etc). So when it comes to the plan for the development once in the conference and beyond, the rugby club will be acutely aware of what is needed. If they say no, then other avenues will have to be followed, but it is in their interest to keep us on board. They have to accept that the football club is now their primary source of income. They need to ensure that is maintained. But i can imagine there will be some challenging conversations ahead. Bottom line is, if the ground can be developed to FL standards (which it can), and it is blocked, the reasons will need to be cast iron, otherwise there could be grounds for the football club to terminate the agreement that is in place. That is purely conjecture by me of course.

SwansQuaker83 wrote:
So when you asked the question you just got a no with no reason then? There are dozens of ideas on here that fall into the bracket of things we could do that have already been asked about and not done...


All ideas will be floated in due course i am certain of that. But the bottom line is cost, and what is permitted to be done. The movement of the pitch southwards was declined because the rugby club need x number of pitches. Now, if the football club were to suggest preparing the land elsewhere that might be an option...but again this comes down to money that simply doesn't exist.

A small thing to consider, not that it would be a massive obsticle is there is a public footpath that runs right across the back of the open end. Encroaching on it would require engaging with the relevant authorities about that too. A little thing, but one that would cost.


Well if they don't want to lose pitches then the models that Feethams sketched above with the planned additional seats and then making them deeper are gone as deepening the one nearest the corner by two additional levels takes out a chunk of the pitch behind it... If you look at Google earth. Sliding the pitch to the right (as viewed from the club) takes out the same pitch but no more.

No matter what we do this is going to cost money.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:18 pm 
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spen666 wrote:
feethams wrote:
.....but we'd have to go backwards to the land behind.

...



so you don't think the Rugby club are going to have something to say about your proposed building on another pitch?


According to DickDarlington they have already said they don't want to lose any pitches so yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:19 pm 
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Yarblockos wrote:
tezza wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
tezza wrote:
Undercovered wrote:
The Club want your money but it's all via community shares which are repayable, they want to loan it


Well said.

Unlike the "Board in Waiting" who seem willing to play fast and loose with ideas and funds.


Are you going to the fans forum on Friday?


Why ?


How are you going to cope with people criticising the board? Are you going to shout them down or are you going to hit them?


Well with me he'll probably make sheep noises and throw leeks at me...


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:31 pm 
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Undercovered wrote:
The Club want your money but it's all via community shares which are repayable, they want to loan it


Pardon my ignorance of how the Community Shares work, but if they're a loan and are repayable in a number of years, then how would this be done without the club being in financial trouble, or will there be an option to write off the shares/donate them to the club instead of getting your money back and this is what most fans will do in due course?


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:54 pm 
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Vodka_Vic wrote:
Undercovered wrote:
The Club want your money but it's all via community shares which are repayable, they want to loan it


Pardon my ignorance of how the Community Shares work, but if they're a loan and are repayable in a number of years, then how would this be done without the club being in financial trouble, or will there be an option to write off the shares/donate them to the club instead of getting your money back and this is what most fans will do in due course?


Basically each year there is an amount that is 'available' to be taken as loan repayments. It's not a full repayment/liability which becomes due after 5 years.

It's more like a dividend than a loan repayment is how I interpreted it. Folk can sign up to get money back or not and I think if over subscribed then it will be proportionally distributed.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:48 pm 
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lo36789 wrote:
Vodka_Vic wrote:
Undercovered wrote:
The Club want your money but it's all via community shares which are repayable, they want to loan it


Pardon my ignorance of how the Community Shares work, but if they're a loan and are repayable in a number of years, then how would this be done without the club being in financial trouble, or will there be an option to write off the shares/donate them to the club instead of getting your money back and this is what most fans will do in due course?


Basically each year there is an amount that is 'available' to be taken as loan repayments. It's not a full repayment/liability which becomes due after 5 years.

It's more like a dividend than a loan repayment is how I interpreted it. Folk can sign up to get money back or not and I think if over subscribed then it will be proportionally distributed.

Can't remember, but was there an opt-out from taking this dividend at the time? And can these shares be donated to the Supporters Group?


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 Post subject: Re: Other Alternatives
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:53 pm 
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Yarblockos wrote:
tezza wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
tezza wrote:
Undercovered wrote:
The Club want your money but it's all via community shares which are repayable, they want to loan it


Well said.

Unlike the "Board in Waiting" who seem willing to play fast and loose with ideas and funds.


Are you going to the fans forum on Friday?


Why ?


How are you going to cope with people criticising the board? Are you going to shout them down or are you going to hit them?


You seem irritated.... and undertones of violence....not really attributes i would be looking for in a new board member, all be it self projected


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