Other Alternatives

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SwansQuaker83
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:22 pm

lo36789 wrote:Nobody has said or shown that is the plan - you have jumped on that and it's now the main basis of your argument.

The plan may involve just adding more modular stands where space allows. We might end up without about 8 stands in the end in odd places...
On Friday we will know for sure... Then we can commence fundraising for the ultimate goal of a FL ground.

Yarblockos
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by Yarblockos » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:27 pm

al_quaker wrote:
LoidLucan wrote:Most sensible people would prefer to get all the facts, figures, explanations, plans, costings and ideas before coming to a proper conclusion.
Yep.

Yarblockos seems to have convinced themselves that we will be ripping up stands at BM, and then is castigating the board on their short term planning and money wastage, purely on speculation on their behalf.

Now, Yarblockos may well be right, but it would seem prudent to wait until Friday and see what is said. There is scope for criticising the board over the ground regulation mistake, but this seems a little over the top in my opinion, certainly at this stage.
Fair enough, we'll all have to wait until the plans are out. You don't HAVE to believe what I am saying. Just look at the diagrams of the ground, the pipe, what we have in place, how big a stand/terrace is, and then work it out for yourself. If you come to a different conclusion then fine. There simply isn't room for 8 blocks of seats dotted around the ground as someone suggested. Look at the plans and explain to me how it can be done (without a miracle).

Vodka_Vic
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by Vodka_Vic » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:33 pm

I agree as well that we look at plans before jumping to conclusions but this has been a very useful debate as we know that the bottom line for BM is the 5000/2000 ratio eventually.

Yarblockos
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by Yarblockos » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:37 pm

Here are the original plans for anyone who is interested

http://msp.darlington.gov.uk/Planning/S ... nt=obj.pdf

al_quaker
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by al_quaker » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:38 pm

Yarblockos wrote:
al_quaker wrote:
LoidLucan wrote:Most sensible people would prefer to get all the facts, figures, explanations, plans, costings and ideas before coming to a proper conclusion.
Yep.

Yarblockos seems to have convinced themselves that we will be ripping up stands at BM, and then is castigating the board on their short term planning and money wastage, purely on speculation on their behalf.

Now, Yarblockos may well be right, but it would seem prudent to wait until Friday and see what is said. There is scope for criticising the board over the ground regulation mistake, but this seems a little over the top in my opinion, certainly at this stage.
Fair enough, we'll all have to wait until the plans are out. You don't HAVE to believe what I am saying. Just look at the diagrams of the ground, the pipe, what we have in place, how big a stand/terrace is, and then work it out for yourself. If you come to a different conclusion then fine. There simply isn't room for 8 blocks of seats dotted around the ground as someone suggested. Look at the plans and explain to me how it can be done (without a miracle).
I'm not saying you're incorrect - I just reckon getting worked up about it and criticising the board over it isn't the best use of time and effort when it is purely speculation on your behalf at this stage.

I don't know how it can be done, but if an architect has said it can be done (as reported on this thread) then that's good enough for me at the moment.

I personally dream of a hefty redevelopment of the clubhouse side, but I know that's fantasy for a number of reasons (although is at as much of a fantasy as us getting back in the football league on our crowds? Maybe not). Would be a smart stadium for a club of our size then though :lol:

Darlo_Pete
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by Darlo_Pete » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:33 pm

SwansQuaker83 wrote:
Craig09 wrote:
Vodka_Vic wrote:Friday night is big for me. If it comes out that BM can't get developed to EFL standard then we won't raise much more money going forward. People will not invest in a structure that doesn't get us into the EFL eventually. The statement from the DFCSG says we want to get back into the EFL. Is this hope or is there a plan?

Exactly i just hope we can get to the EFL standard or all that money the board has used to put into BM plus the grants is just a big waste. Theres alot of good suggestions specially about getting the main water pipe diverted but that will also cost a few quid too
Either diverting the pipe or moving the pitch is vital to achieving a FL ground. As you say, given the events of last week, I really hope they have approved plans to show people on the 21st or they have little hope of funding the next stage.
I believe the cost of diverting the water pipe would be up to £1 million.

SwansQuaker83
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:45 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
Craig09 wrote:
Vodka_Vic wrote:Friday night is big for me. If it comes out that BM can't get developed to EFL standard then we won't raise much more money going forward. People will not invest in a structure that doesn't get us into the EFL eventually. The statement from the DFCSG says we want to get back into the EFL. Is this hope or is there a plan?

Exactly i just hope we can get to the EFL standard or all that money the board has used to put into BM plus the grants is just a big waste. Theres alot of good suggestions specially about getting the main water pipe diverted but that will also cost a few quid too
Either diverting the pipe or moving the pitch is vital to achieving a FL ground. As you say, given the events of last week, I really hope they have approved plans to show people on the 21st or they have little hope of funding the next stage.
I believe the cost of diverting the water pipe would be up to £1 million.
Ah well... That won't be happening.

H1987
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by H1987 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:59 pm

I've been doodling again (because i've been bored) :mrgreen:

Image

I guess you might be able to get 5000:2000 in this way? Building deeper seating behind the goal? I honestly don't know how we can even get 1,000 seats in the ground in any other way, let alone 2,000, if we make behind the goal a terrace? It'd obviously boost capacity short term, but the other little spaces in corners, i think you'd have to make terracing? So where are you going to put the seats we need?

It also makes sense to put seats there because there is no floodlights that need moving. Remember, a third of behind the goal would remain hard standing and you could put a small terrace in that corner, which presumably could be an away end. You could also allocate away fans a small number of seats (which you are required to at FL level?)

The only other possibility *might* be if we're allowed to install rail seating if the rules change in this country, as they have in Scotland. Giving us a higher capacity if the end is used as terracing, or a smaller capacity but with more seats if needed. Maybe, in future, that might be possible.

I don't think the Arena is a realistic possibility, we are here now, we have to make it work. I also don't ever want to see us play there again.

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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by Yarblockos » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:13 pm

H1987 wrote:I've been doodling again (because i've been bored) :mrgreen:

Image

I guess you might be able to get 5000:2000 in this way? Building deeper seating behind the goal? I honestly don't know how we can even get 1,000 seats in the ground in any other way, let alone 2,000, if we make behind the goal a terrace? It'd obviously boost capacity short term, but the other little spaces in corners, i think you'd have to make terracing? So where are you going to put the seats we need?

It also makes sense to put seats there because there is no floodlights that need moving. Remember, a third of behind the goal would remain hard standing and you could put a small terrace in that corner, which presumably could be an away end. You could also allocate away fans a small number of seats (which you are required to at FL level?)

The only other possibility *might* be if we're allowed to install rail seating if the rules change in this country, as they have in Scotland. Giving us a higher capacity if the end is used as terracing, or a smaller capacity but with more seats if needed. Maybe, in future, that might be possible.

I don't think the Arena is a realistic possibility, we are here now, we have to make it work. I also don't ever want to see us play there again.

Not sure how accurate that water piper area is, take a look at the architect's plans I posted in the link above, we only have approx half of the undeveloped end available. Trouble with putting small terraces in the corners is that they are already used for toilets, exits, and refreshments and I believe we need to have access to the playing area in at least one corner to allow emergency vehicles in etc. Plus, remember where the touchline is, you'd be putting a lot of seats in a poor viewing location.

SwansQuaker83
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:26 pm

Yarblockos wrote:
H1987 wrote:I've been doodling again (because i've been bored) :mrgreen:

Image

I guess you might be able to get 5000:2000 in this way? Building deeper seating behind the goal? I honestly don't know how we can even get 1,000 seats in the ground in any other way, let alone 2,000, if we make behind the goal a terrace? It'd obviously boost capacity short term, but the other little spaces in corners, i think you'd have to make terracing? So where are you going to put the seats we need?

It also makes sense to put seats there because there is no floodlights that need moving. Remember, a third of behind the goal would remain hard standing and you could put a small terrace in that corner, which presumably could be an away end. You could also allocate away fans a small number of seats (which you are required to at FL level?)

The only other possibility *might* be if we're allowed to install rail seating if the rules change in this country, as they have in Scotland. Giving us a higher capacity if the end is used as terracing, or a smaller capacity but with more seats if needed. Maybe, in future, that might be possible.

I don't think the Arena is a realistic possibility, we are here now, we have to make it work. I also don't ever want to see us play there again.

Not sure how accurate that water piper area is, take a look at the architect's plans I posted in the link above, we only have approx half of the undeveloped end available. Trouble with putting small terraces in the corners is that they are already used for toilets, exits, and refreshments and I believe we need to have access to the playing area in at least one corner to allow emergency vehicles in etc. Plus, remember where the touchline is, you'd be putting a lot of seats in a poor viewing location.
You're right it's more or less exactly half that we are left with.

MCFCDarlo3
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by MCFCDarlo3 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:42 pm

Couldnt seating go down the club house side if we moved the dug outs over the other side? Or would that leave no view from the seats over there?

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loan_star
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by loan_star » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:12 pm

I've posted on here before, Newcastle Falcons ground had a clubhouse on one side and they put seats in front of that.

http://playerwelfare.worldrugby.org/ima ... ch_167.jpg

MCFCDarlo3
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by MCFCDarlo3 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:21 pm

loan_star wrote:I've posted on here before, Newcastle Falcons ground had a clubhouse on one side and they put seats in front of that.

http://playerwelfare.worldrugby.org/ima ... ch_167.jpg
Cheers,Would seem to tick a few boxes if it could be done...money,Rugby club

lo36789
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by lo36789 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:25 pm

I'd say money the bigger challenge. I think the rugby club are pretty happy for us to improve facilities that we can afford.

SwansQuaker83
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:27 pm

loan_star wrote:I've posted on here before, Newcastle Falcons ground had a clubhouse on one side and they put seats in front of that.

http://playerwelfare.worldrugby.org/ima ... ch_167.jpg
We don't have anywhere near enough space. Check it out on Google Earth. We could look at the changing rooms/old seats and build either side of the clubhouse. It isn't just the 5k with 2k seats I'd like to see. If it involves developing the club, taking out the rugby pitches behind or anything significant, I'd like to know if the rugby club have approved the plans as they could turn round and say no.

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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by MCFCDarlo3 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:29 pm

lo36789 wrote:I'd say money the bigger challenge. I think the rugby club are pretty happy for us to improve facilities that we can afford.
It should be the area we look at.All this s*** avoiding the water pipe will surely make the ground look lob sided.The seats on the other side could be given to away fans maybe.

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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by MCFCDarlo3 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:31 pm

SwansQuaker83 wrote:
loan_star wrote:I've posted on here before, Newcastle Falcons ground had a clubhouse on one side and they put seats in front of that.

http://playerwelfare.worldrugby.org/ima ... ch_167.jpg
We don't have anywhere near enough space. Check it out on Google Earth. We could look at the changing rooms/old seats and build either side of the clubhouse. It isn't just the 5k with 2k seats I'd like to see. If it involves developing the club, taking out the rugby pitches behind or anything significant, I'd like to know if the rugby club have approved the plans as they could turn round and say no.
Just seen this,shame if thats the case

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loan_star
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by loan_star » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:40 pm

SwansQuaker83 wrote:
loan_star wrote:I've posted on here before, Newcastle Falcons ground had a clubhouse on one side and they put seats in front of that.

http://playerwelfare.worldrugby.org/ima ... ch_167.jpg
We don't have anywhere near enough space. Check it out on Google Earth. We could look at the changing rooms/old seats and build either side of the clubhouse. It isn't just the 5k with 2k seats I'd like to see. If it involves developing the club, taking out the rugby pitches behind or anything significant, I'd like to know if the rugby club have approved the plans as they could turn round and say no.
We have enough space to build a smaller scale version. The pitch would have to be narrower though but that shouldn't be that big an issue.

In fact having looked at both on google earth you can see the BM pitch is far wider than Kingston Park. Plenty of room in other words.

SwansQuaker83
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:45 pm

loan_star wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
loan_star wrote:I've posted on here before, Newcastle Falcons ground had a clubhouse on one side and they put seats in front of that.

http://playerwelfare.worldrugby.org/ima ... ch_167.jpg
We don't have anywhere near enough space. Check it out on Google Earth. We could look at the changing rooms/old seats and build either side of the clubhouse. It isn't just the 5k with 2k seats I'd like to see. If it involves developing the club, taking out the rugby pitches behind or anything significant, I'd like to know if the rugby club have approved the plans as they could turn round and say no.
We have enough space to build a smaller scale version. The pitch would have to be narrower though but that shouldn't be that big an issue.
May be for the rugby club.

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loan_star
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by loan_star » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:49 pm

SwansQuaker83 wrote:
loan_star wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
loan_star wrote:I've posted on here before, Newcastle Falcons ground had a clubhouse on one side and they put seats in front of that.

http://playerwelfare.worldrugby.org/ima ... ch_167.jpg
We don't have anywhere near enough space. Check it out on Google Earth. We could look at the changing rooms/old seats and build either side of the clubhouse. It isn't just the 5k with 2k seats I'd like to see. If it involves developing the club, taking out the rugby pitches behind or anything significant, I'd like to know if the rugby club have approved the plans as they could turn round and say no.
We have enough space to build a smaller scale version. The pitch would have to be narrower though but that shouldn't be that big an issue.
May be for the rugby club.
The rugby club know the situation. If they had any doubt about a development then they won't have entered into the agreement. They will have seen the plans already and agreed to them. Suggest you have another look at both grounds on google earth too and realise there is plenty of room by reducing the pitch perimeter.

lo36789
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by lo36789 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:57 pm

No point loan_star...glass half empty brigade

Yarblockos
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by Yarblockos » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:59 pm

loan_star wrote:The rugby club know the situation. If they had any doubt about a development then they won't have entered into the agreement. They will have seen the plans already and agreed to them. Suggest you have another look at both grounds on google earth too and realise there is plenty of room by reducing the pitch perimeter.
What plans? There are no plans to reduce the pitch perimeter as far as I know, so what have the rugby club agreed to? Also, the 250 stand is concreted in position, it can't be moved backwards away from the pitch.

SwansQuaker83
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:01 pm

lo36789 wrote:No point loan_star...glass half empty brigade
As opposed to what? Backing the board with blind loyalty and ignoring the massive cock ups that came out this week?

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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:02 pm

As I've said... I guess we'll see these approved plans for a football league ground on Friday.

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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:06 pm

Any links to the article where the architect states we can build a FL ground?

lo36789
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by lo36789 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:15 pm

https://www.darlofc.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 5&start=30

Found this which seems to suggest it was during interview with Kev where it was announced.

Scrap that https://youtu.be/AfwmXO-SRP4

Yarblockos
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by Yarblockos » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:17 pm

SwansQuaker83 wrote:Any links to the article where the architect states we can build a FL ground?
I found this article:

https://www.nonleaguedaily.com/intervie ... loser.html

Malcolm Cundick, project manager of the move back to Darlington said: "We need to get up to a 5000 capacity. We were in a Category C when we started four years ago and now we’re up to Category B and fortunately, we’ve planned for that and we’ve got permission to build additional stands and there’s capacity at that end [points behind goal opposite Tin Shed] to grow to the 5000 we need for Category A.

I guess building a 2,000 standing terrace at the open end would work, it would have to be 36 steps high though! Then what about the 1500 other seats?

I'm sure the previous and current board would have read the FA ground grading rules very closely of course.

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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by Yarblockos » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:19 pm

lo36789 wrote:https://www.darlofc.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... 5&start=30

Found this which seems to suggest it was during interview with Kev where it was announced.

Scrap that https://youtu.be/AfwmXO-SRP4
Interesting reading that thread though. The same old people questioning if its possible and the same old people sure that everything is fine and dandy!

lo36789
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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by lo36789 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:26 pm

Nothing anyone has said on there has been proven not to be possible though? Honestly you two clearly ain't going to be convinced until it is delivered which ain't going to be for 5-10years. This is probably going to get boring long before then.

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Re: Other Alternatives

Post by Yarblockos » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:32 pm

There are no plans to prove impossible though, just Malcolm Cundick's word, and he says nothing about 2000 seats. We don't need to wiat 5-10 years, we just need to see the plans, and apparently they have already been put together, so we should see them in a matter of days or weeks.

Btw, I don't think needing to see evidence of something before you believe it is bad thing.

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