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From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal
http://darlofc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33341
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Author:  bga [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

Just published on club website. Interesting maybe we do have a
chance?
http://darlingtonfootballclub.co.uk/32541-2/

Author:  Darlobaz79 [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

We can only hope! If they are right and there has been some miscommunication from the FA then that is a straw to be clutched!

Author:  theoriginalfatcat [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

I have to admit - I was hoping for better! There is no surprise ace up our sleeve.

The appeal in a nutshell seems to say 'it's stupid unfair rule, and was badly communicated'.

According to a piece on the BBC website, the FA say they won't comment until the League have seen the appeals. I wonder if the FA have any influence on any any appeal outcome?*

* straw clutching.

Author:  bga [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
I have to admit - I was hoping for better! There is no surprise ace up our sleeve.

The appeal in a nutshell seems to say 'it's stupid unfair rule, and was badly communicated'.

According to a piece on the BBC website, the FA say they won't comment until the League have seen the appeals. I wonder if they FA have any influence on any any appeal outcome?*

* straw clutching.

The basis of the appeal is that an Independent Committee would deem it unfair that a club has to spend to "improve" it's ground by 31st March with no guaranteed of promotion. This appears to be the only league this applies to if the information in the Appeal is correct?

Author:  Darlo_Dan [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

It's a fair argument about having to invest significant sums in ground facilities without guarantee of promotion (and is out of step with other leagues). But as it is an FA rule, and the appeal is to the FA, it is doomed to fail.

Author:  Darlobaz79 [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

bga wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
I have to admit - I was hoping for better! There is no surprise ace up our sleeve.

The appeal in a nutshell seems to say 'it's stupid unfair rule, and was badly communicated'.

According to a piece on the BBC website, the FA say they won't comment until the League have seen the appeals. I wonder if they FA have any influence on any any appeal outcome?*

* straw clutching.

The basis of the appeal is that an Independent Committee would deem it unfair that a club has to spend to "improve" it's ground by 31st March with no guaranteed of promotion. This appears to be the only league this applies to if the information in the Appeal is correct?


They do indeed it is an FA judicial panel who make the decision

Author:  Darlobaz79 [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

Darlo_Dan wrote:
It's a fair argument about having to invest significant sums in ground facilities without guarantee of promotion (and is out of step with other leagues). But as it is an FA rule, and the appeal is to the FA, it is doomed to fail.


Not according to the person I spoke to, it is a league rule. The Poole Vice-Chairman is a member of the judicial panel so would know the regulations.

Author:  Quakerz [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

Interesting that it would cost 33k to just to move and re-assemble the HP seats...

Nothing to do with the appeal but I find it interesting anyway, considering the amount of banging on done by some people over this.

33k + digging and laying foundations + erecting steel frame and roof to make a permanent stand...how much in total?

How much of the 150k cost to extend the stand is to buy and fit new seats? I bet there is not much between buying new and moving the HP seats.

Author:  quaker4life [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

Quote:
ii) The focus at the time was on achieving Category B, and the requirement for 500 covered seats was not picked up.


Quote:
iv) Reference was made by the Board to the Inspection Team of the availability of a 312 seater stand available at Heritage Park. The Board believed that this would have enabled Blackwell Meadows to easily achieve 500 seats


Quite frankly, they may as well have not bothered.

They've basically admitted fault on two counts here and as expected have tried to plead poverty and ignorance, neither of which is a valid defence.

In summary;

Error #1 - They first openly admit they were unaware of the need for 500 seats and apparently did not pick up on it all, entirely their fault.

Error #2 - They admit they mistakenly believed the temporary seats at Heritage Park would suffice as well being unaware that they had to be covered, again entirely their fault.

There's only one place for this, the bin.

Utter waste of time.

Author:  Emdubya [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

I would think "uplifting and installation "would include any groundwork required to get them in place.The roof is another matter.

Author:  JE93 [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

Good statement in my opinion. Very simple and honest in what its saying. The rule is an anomily. Dont know whether it will be successful but the fact 3 promotion challenging teams have come a crop of it must help thw cause a little.

As for the temo stand interesting that it would be 33k just to move them, perhaps the best policy is to just try to sell them now try and recoup some money towards improving BM. The build and rake of the BM seats is different to that of the ones at HP so they would have to go elsewhere at BM sounds almost more trouble than they are worth.

Just out of curiosity (and I would guess the reason is finance) is there any reason we did not move the final floodlight, and put the ground work (foundations) in for the full 600 seat stand when we built the 294 that are currently at BM? Could possibly have been a more cost effective way of doing things rather than having to do a second phase of ground works.

Author:  super_les_mcjannet [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

Quakerz wrote:
Interesting that it would cost 33k to just to move and re-assemble the HP seats...

Nothing to do with the appeal but I find it interesting anyway, considering the amount of banging on done by some people over this.

33k + digging and laying foundations + erecting steel frame and roof to make a permanent stand...how much in total?

How much of the 150k cost to extend the stand is to buy and fit new seats? I bet there is not much between buying new and moving the HP seats.


I did say that we were quoted at over 30k but obviously many still think a few lads can just do it for fun one day.

Author:  DarloPeGi [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

A reasonably professional statement from the club in my opinion.

We now have a timeline of events and what the basis of the appeal will be.

Will the FA accept they communicated the term "500 seats" to the club and not "500 covered seats" ? I doubt it...

A quote of £33,000 to move the temp seats from HP to BM is excessive and gives another indicator the dilemma the board faced

Whilst the statement appeases me to large extent with regards to what the Board have done, i'm sure it won't for others...

Author:  super_les_mcjannet [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

Basically it says we didn't read the rules or understand them, can we play please because it was a struggle and you didn't tell us the guidelines 100% even though we should have been building the ground to the guidelines.

Happy to move on but I don't see a lot of hope in the appeal.

Author:  DarloDave40 [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

It's only a summary I suspect there are many documents to support the appeal.

Author:  super_les_mcjannet [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

DarloDave40 wrote:
It's only a summary I suspect there are many documents to support the appeal.


Documents saying what though?

Author:  DarloDave40 [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

Imagine if we hadn't bothered to appeal and the other two won theirs!

Author:  super_les_mcjannet [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

DarloDave40 wrote:
Imagine if we hadn't bothered to appeal and the other two won theirs!


Happy to appeal, I don't mind that part but what will the documents say to advance the appeal?

Author:  Darlobaz79 [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

It will be heard on Wednesday at Wembley Stadium

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/sport/ ... ref=twtrec

Author:  Spyman [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

From briefly scanning this it seems the basis of our appeal is that at one point the wording from the ground grading people was that it was 500 seats, not 500 covered seats, and that on this basis we thought we could bring the existing seats across from Heritage Park. By the time we realised the seats must be covered, it was too late to do anything.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Author:  super_les_mcjannet [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

Spyman wrote:
From briefly scanning this it seems the basis of our appeal is that at one point the wording from the ground grading people was that it was 500 seats, not 500 covered seats, and that on this basis we thought we could bring the existing seats across from Heritage Park. By the time we realised the seats must be covered, it was too late to do anything.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


So it seems our appeal is based on when we were building we didn't refer to the ground grading document we waited until it was inspected and then the FA mentioned 500 seats and we assumed they could be covered, uncovered, temporary it just didn't matter as no one said.

Author:  Darlobaz79 [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

It sounds like we are arguing that we spoke to the inspection team about bringing over the seats from Bishop for the play-offs and they either said that was fine or at the very least didn't point out that it wouldn't be ok.

Author:  super_les_mcjannet [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

So it sounds like we are admitting we built a ground without reading or understanding the rules then.

Happy to appeal and also happy to move on but let's not sit here and think we have been hard done by, as the rules if read are very clear.

Author:  lo36789 [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Happy to appeal and also happy to move on


Are you sure you are happy to move on?

The terminology used in our appeal is identical to that used by Poole and Hungerfors in statements which is probably not coincidence.

Author:  super_les_mcjannet [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

lo36789 wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Happy to appeal and also happy to move on


Are you sure you are happy to move on?

The terminology used in our appeal is identical to that used by Poole and Hungerfors in statements which is probably not coincidence.


Yep I have accepted we will be very, very lucky if the appeal goes our way so if it doesn't I am fine and still willing to invest in getting us ready for next time.

If it did go our way then fantastic a free hit as far as I am concerned.

Identical statements and identical issues, none of the clubs have managed to get 500 covered seats as per rules. Is this something that is changed by the FA or the clubs at the AGM, what was the reason it was put in?

Author:  SwansQuaker83 [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

Ok so why didn't they say anything about getting the Bishop seats over in January? Two months go by before they find out that it needs to be covered seats. So at the start of February they had left themselves one month to find 33k, find someone to do the work, then actually do it. They never mentioned this before then.

Then... They continued selling early bird seasons and didn't say a word to the fans... And from the moment they found out in February, to the moment they made the previous statement in April, they STILL hadn't properly read the ground grading document? Because had they done so they wouldn't have stated that the rule change came in May 2016, because at the top of the May 16 document, the first words are that all amends from the May 15 doc are in RED ITALICS, which the bit about 500 seats to be promoted wasn't.

Author:  don'tbuythesun [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

It's still a stupid rule and at the very least it will hopefully lead to a change to help other clubs in the future. Looks like I'll be taking in Southport away next season!

Author:  SwansQuaker83 [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

don'tbuythesun wrote:
It's still a stupid rule and at the very least it will hopefully lead to a change to help other clubs in the future. Looks like I'll be taking in Southport away next season!


It's an absolutely ridiculous rule

Author:  LoidLucan [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

I can't see the jury being out for very long to consider their verdicts on any of the appeals.

Author:  Yarblockos [ Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: From the Board of Directors Summary of Appeal

SwansQuaker83 wrote:
Ok so why didn't they say anything about getting the Bishop seats over in January? Two months go by before they find out that it needs to be covered seats. So at the start of February they had left themselves one month to find 33k, find someone to do the work, then actually do it. They never mentioned this before then.

Then... They continued selling early bird seasons and didn't say a word to the fans... And from the moment they found out in February, to the moment they made the previous statement in April, they STILL hadn't properly read the ground grading document? Because had they done so they wouldn't have stated that the rule change came in May 2016, because at the top of the May 16 document, the first words are that all amends from the May 15 doc are in RED ITALICS, which the bit about 500 seats to be promoted wasn't.


Correct. They knew on the 21st December 2016 that they were required to have “500 seats” in order to participate in the play offs. Why no mention of this in the 6 weeks before the "covered seating" criteria was discovered? Why no fund raising to address something that they knew would exclude us from the play-offs back in 2016? They said we didn't then have enough time to raise funds for the covered seats, but what were they doing in the previous 6 weeks to raise funds for shifting the temporary seats?

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