Next seasons playoffs

[al_quaker]

There's a proposal (not sure if it's confirmed either way yet) to extend the playoffs to 6 teams in the conference and N/S divisions.

https://twitter.com/nonleagueshow/statu ... 2140755968

Not sure how I feel about this, although makes it easier to have a chance of promotion

[lo36789]

Sounds horrific. Playoffs are fun and a great way to end the season but the more teams you have in them the more it trivialises the actual league season.

[murtonquaker]

What next, turn it into a Rugby Style or American Style post-season play-off

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[Geordie Quaker]

On the other hand:

- It does retain interest (and potential therefore sustain crowds) for a greater number of teams;

- It gives a greater sense of advantage to those finishing highest, incentivising pushing for 2nd or 3rd place.

Ultimately if people see this format as unfair then they probably feel the same way about the playoffs in general (if their ultimate issue is fairness). I'm open to it.

They should definitely take the NL play off final away from Wembley though. Crikey, you could have got FGR's following into BM (with some implications for view)

[spen666]

.....
They should definitely take the NL play off final away from Wembley though. Crikey, you could have got FGR's following into BM (with some implications for view)

Rather than take the game from Wembley they need to review pricing

£41 plus booking fees for the game. Prices set by National League


Next weekend FA Non League Finals Day is £25 for 2 games and kids I think are a quid




When Spennymoor played Tunbridge in Vase Final, the Play Off final was the following day and there was a higher attendance for Vase Final than for Play Off Final. I would wager a reason for that is pricing.

If it was say £15 for Play Off final, numerous neutral fans would go like they do for Non League Finals Day

[Darlogramps]

On the other hand:

- It does retain interest (and potential therefore sustain crowds) for a greater number of teams;

- It gives a greater sense of advantage to those finishing highest, incentivising pushing for 2nd or 3rd place.

Ultimately if people see this format as unfair then they probably feel the same way about the playoffs in general (if their ultimate issue is fairness). I'm open to it.

They should definitely take the NL play off final away from Wembley though. Crikey, you could have got FGR's following into BM (with some implications for view)

Yeah I like the idea as well. It at least gives an advantage to the sides who finish higher up in the table, means fewer meaningless games for mid-table sides, and gets rid of the ridiculous idea of two-legged play-offs.

And I agree about Wembley too. It's not the right venue for the National League play-off final. Again, I've always said the final should be held at the home ground of the highest-finishing club. It means the previous 40+ games in the league season actually count for something.

[jonn]

Six teams in the playoffs.? ... so how does that work if it's a knock-out competition as now? Give two teams byes??? A preliminary round (3rd v 6th and 4th v 5th) to decide who faced the winner of 2nd v 7th in the final? That would mean the 7th team would only have to win two games to get promotion, quite unfair when higher-finishing teams would have to win three.
Somebody explain, please, with examples of leagues who've tried this.

[Geordie Quaker]

It works like this (taken from Non League Paper Twitter):

- 6 teams - 2nd & 3rd get a bye into semis. 4th v 7th & 5th v 6th;
- Winners then go into semi finals (versus either 2nd or 3rd);
- Winners progress to final
- In all cases the highest finishing team plays at home (except NL final @ Wembley)
- All rounds one leg

Tranmere are a big club at that level and even if they played a team of equal size Wembley would have been just over a third full. High prices or not that suggests a central ground (e.g. Villa Park) would be more suitable. Sod the neutrals, you want the play off to be attended by as many partisan fans as possible and in a place where their support won't echo away into the sky.

[lo36789]

Six teams in the playoffs.? ... so how does that work if it's a knock-out competition as now? Give two teams byes??? A preliminary round (3rd v 6th and 4th v 5th) to decide who faced the winner of 2nd v 7th in the final? That would mean the 7th team would only have to win two games to get promotion, quite unfair when higher-finishing teams would have to win three.
Somebody explain, please, with examples of leagues who've tried this.

2nd and 3rd get a bye it states. They get straight through to semi-final.

so 4th play 7th, 5th play 6th. I don't know what they then do - lowest placed team of who is left plays 2nd...

[m62exile]

Read about this yesterday, I like the idea actually. Creates advantage for the higher placed teams but keeps the season alive longer for those around the middle of the table.

[jonn]

Sounds a bit uncertain to me... does anybody anywhere do this?

[lo36789]

Sounds a bit uncertain to me... does anybody anywhere do this?

Does that matter? Progression comes from changes not copying what others do.

GQ probably touched on it though those who don't agree with playoffs wont be in favour as it almost exaggerates the problem those people have with the playoff concept.

I am probably used to what the playoffs are now so accept them. I think they are fun and exciting but do think they are a bit unfair in the way they basically mean a team who finishes 3 places higher can be beaten to promotion by the lower placed team.

[spen666]

7 teams in play offs is going to mean more games- hence more time to complete play offs, so either going to have to end normal season sooner or extend season to fit games in.

If it means ending season sooner, it will mean more midweek games or starting season earlier

[al_quaker]

7 teams in play offs is going to mean more games- hence more time to complete play offs, so either going to have to end normal season sooner or extend season to fit games in.

If it means ending season sooner, it will mean more midweek games or starting season earlier

It's 6 teams, with the playoffs involving the same number of games as now (5)

[mikkyx]

They would only be single games rather than two legged affairs, so there wouldn't be any extra games:

Current system: 5v2 / 2v5, 4v3 / 3v4 + Final = five games
New system: 4v7, 5v6 + 2v(A), 3v(B) + Final = five games

[dickdarlington]

But what about the seats??? 50% more clubs at risk of missing out. Teams finishing 8th and 9th qualifying by default...whatever next?

Actually I'm on the fence about this. On one level I think it's a positive move. But there are a number of concerns. This somewhat mirrors the Scottish template (which has two legs per round). Come the final, a team can play 4 additional games before they play the final. This solitary game per round sounds much fairer. And i am a big advocate of having home advantage. My other big concern is how long is given to arrange the matches? In our play-off seasons it's been a nightmare. Imaging having to arrange the ticketing/segregation in 24 hours notice for Orient v Tranmere, or FCUM v Stockport. And I have serious concerns about a team finishing 7th in the division below being able to survive at the level above. If there were 2 automatic spots, then maybe, but to finish 2nd and miss out to someone 1/3 division below doesn't sit right.

On the plus side, it should increase attendances come the end of the season. And would be very exciting.

[spen666]

They would only be single games rather than two legged affairs, so there wouldn't be any extra games:

Current system: 5v2 / 2v5, 4v3 / 3v4 + Final = five games
New system: 4v7, 5v6 + 2v(A), 3v(B) + Final = five games

I hadn't realised they were switching to single game ties.



....

[lo36789]

which part of

"The format involves the same number of matches as now, and the Promotion Final will continue to be played at the magnificent Wembley Stadium. The benefits of these changes are attractive. Single legs should produce compelling 'do or die' live matches for attending fans and those watching on television."

Did you not quite grasp?

[Darlogramps]

which part of

"The format involves the same number of matches as now, and the Promotion Final will continue to be played at the magnificent Wembley Stadium. The benefits of these changes are attractive. Single legs should produce compelling 'do or die' live matches for attending fans and those watching on television."

Did you not quite grasp?

Razor-sharp observational skills from one of Britain's leading legal minds there.

I do love it when Spen falls flat on his face.

[spen666]

which part of

"The format involves the same number of matches as now, and the Promotion Final will continue to be played at the magnificent Wembley Stadium. The benefits of these changes are attractive. Single legs should produce compelling 'do or die' live matches for attending fans and those watching on television."

Did you not quite grasp?

Razor-sharp observational skills from one of Britain's leading legal minds there.

I do love it when Spen falls flat on his face.

[lo36789]

He might get the hang of using quotes one day?

[en passant]

A couple of thoughts on this.

First the idea of bringing more teams into the playoffs. Does this mean that out of necessity more teams at this level will have to fork out money to upgrade their grounds on the increased off-chance of ending up in the playoffs? As had been pointed out elsewhere on this board, this would put a lot more strain on the finances of clubs like our own if there was the slightest chance of getting to the playoffs.

Second, and referring only to introducing this idea in the Conference, how about allowing two teams to have automatic promotion and letting the next 4 have a playoff to aim for. It would still give a little more incentive to mid-table teams but would also offer a greater reward to teams who currently have only the one automatic place to go for. As many have observed, the divide between the better Conference teams and those in the Football League is probably a fairly narrow one. Surely the Conference should be accepted to be little more than an extension of the Football League, and therefore be given similar extended opportunities to get promoted as currently exist in the FL.

[Vodka_Vic]

Has been discussed for years but EFL won't agree. Also when we lost our appeal the FA said they would review the seats rule. If this change came in then they might do that. Would be sods law for us though.

[lo36789]

A couple of thoughts on this.

First the idea of bringing more teams into the playoffs. Does this mean that out of necessity more teams at this level will have to fork out money to upgrade their grounds on the increased off-chance of ending up in the playoffs? As had been pointed out elsewhere on this board, this would put a lot more strain on the finances of clubs like our own if there was the slightest chance of getting to the playoffs.

Second, and referring only to introducing this idea in the Conference, how about allowing two teams to have automatic promotion and letting the next 4 have a playoff to aim for. It would still give a little more incentive to mid-table teams but would also offer a greater reward to teams who currently have only the one automatic place to go for. As many have observed, the divide between the better Conference teams and those in the Football League is probably a fairly narrow one. Surely the Conference should be accepted to be little more than an extension of the Football League, and therefore be given similar extended opportunities to get promoted as currently exist in the FL.

They already relegate 4. Your proposal would mean relegating 6. Basically bottom third of the league.

[Vodka_Vic]

He meant League 2 to Conference I think.

[lo36789]

Can't see the league clubs voting for that change somehow.

[jjljks]

I know this sounds a bit retro, but what about extending the playoffs to 22 teams. Each team could play each other at least once at home and once away? Appreciate this may take some time to complete but if they start say August Bank Holiday and finish May Day bank holiday, should be possible to get the games finished before the cricket season. The team who has most points on May Day and (if points are equal), best goal average wins Championship.

I realise that averages are much harder to work out than goal difference (as it relies on long division), but a calculator is allowed. You can still have four teams going up (if you let the next 2nd /3rd and 4th teams up, so real incentives for scoring at one end and not conceding at the other plus playing right to the end of the season. Smooths out the effects of loss of key players to injuries or red card at the end.

Teams would have fewer games to play, less travel expenses and fans not fleeced by an overnight trip down to North London in order to feed the white elephant called Wembley and line the pockets of the FA fat cats.

[Geordie Quaker]

You far fetched idiot

Based on the above I assume you would have refused promotion had we won the playoffs in 1996 when we finished 5th (or 2008 when we finished 6th)?

[spen666]

I know this sounds a bit retro, but what about extending the playoffs to 22 teams. Each team could play each other at least once at home and once away? Appreciate this may take some time to complete but if they start say August Bank Holiday and finish May Day bank holiday, should be possible to get the games finished before the cricket season. The team who has most points on May Day and (if points are equal), best goal average wins Championship.

I realise that averages are much harder to work out than goal difference (as it relies on long division), but a calculator is allowed. You can still have four teams going up (if you let the next 2nd /3rd and 4th teams up, so real incentives for scoring at one end and not conceding at the other plus playing right to the end of the season. Smooths out the effects of loss of key players to injuries or red card at the end.

Teams would have fewer games to play, less travel expenses and fans not fleeced by an overnight trip down to North London in order to feed the white elephant called Wembley and line the pockets of the FA fat cats.

What nonsense- it would never work.

Have you been on the wacky backy again?

[Magical Quakers]

Sounds like it has been confirmed.

http://nonleague.pitchero.com/news/the- ... ue-format/

Even more reason to sort the seats out now, unless the league change their rule.