Short-termism

[Beano]

We will not get back into the FL, or NL for that matter, whilst at Blackwell Meadows.

The CEO is absolutely correct when he states that we need our own ground, or at least reside in one where we can generate off-field revenue streams, if we are to progress.

I disagree that we can't get into the National League at Blackwell Meadows given time and sensible growth/development.

I certainly agree we've no chance of being a FL side, or even a solid top half (probably even mid-table) NL side without external revenue sources, which we don't have at BM.

I can't see how we can compete financially without those revenue streams at BM even in NL North. Said sustainable growth and development needs funding. I'd prefer the relationship with the rugby club to develop to allow this, but it doesn't seem even remotely likely at present.

[al_quaker]

We will not get back into the FL, or NL for that matter, whilst at Blackwell Meadows.

The CEO is absolutely correct when he states that we need our own ground, or at least reside in one where we can generate off-field revenue streams, if we are to progress.

I disagree that we can't get into the National League at Blackwell Meadows given time and sensible growth/development.

I certainly agree we've no chance of being a FL side, or even a solid top half (probably even mid-table) NL side without external revenue sources, which we don't have at BM.

I can't see how we can compete financially without those revenue streams at BM even in NL North. Said sustainable growth and development needs funding. I'd prefer the relationship with the rugby club to develop to allow this, but it doesn't seem even remotely likely at present.

Our budget, by all accounts, is decent for this level. And we've got money tied up in the 500 club (this is not a criticism of those in the 500 club who've contributed massively), which of course may counteract the fact we're effectively bankrolling this budget. The budget obviously won't touch the likes of Salford et al, but we only have to finish 7th to be eligible for promotion. Just because Gray perhaps hasn't spent the budget wisely doesn't mean we aren't able to compete at this level.

Our budget won't be big enough to guarantee immediate success, but it will be enough to build towards playoff challenges in this league.

[Alfie]

OUR FOOTBALL CLUBS ARE FOR LIFE.......

not just for one season

I thought after 2012 we were rebuilding a club so that our children, grandchildren could follow in our footsteps and have a lifetime of frustration and dissapointment punctuated by odd moments, even seasons, of success and pleasure.

It seems that all that has been forgotten in an obsession of getting back to the football league as soon as possible, at whatever long term cost.

As someone who gets an age related concessionary ticket at the wrong end of the age range, long term - measured if necessary in decades - means I may never see the club back in the 'promised land' of the football league, but I do remember the decades of dross served up when we were a full time league club trundling along with succes more often than not being measured in avoiding having to seek re-elction and finishing above Pools.

I think it was important for early success on the field to generate interest and momentum, but now the priority must be long term sustainability.

I just hope we don't sell our soul for another promotion party.

[Vodka_Vic]

Genuine question here for those who are pro-investment, what is the big rush and mad panic to get promoted ASAP? Is it that MG might leave if we don't keep moving forward. Is it our expectation of history? Given that we were playing in cow sheds just 4 years ago and we are now at a level where we can as fans go to comfortable grounds and see some established clubs again, what is the issue with being in the NLN for a couple more years? I'm just genuinely curious to hear the pros of short-termism.

[grimsbyquaker]

Face it... if we were to be promoted we'd be pretty much relegated again by February. We'd be travelling to the four corners of England at eye watering cost, including Tuesday nights at Dover etc. We'd get a trickle of away fans from all but the biggest/more northern teams coming to us, limiting our match-day income (Grimsby Town would regularly get away followings of less than 20 fans at Blundell Park). We'd be playing big, fast and physical teams who'd bully us off the park each week. The NLN may not be our destination of choice but there are worse places to be while we get our house in order or if we never do

[Beano]

I'm genuinely in no rush for promotion - I'd just like the club to be on an even keel financially.

As Alfie has stated, I hope we don't sell our soul for another promotion party.

[QUAKERMAN2]

Face it... if we were to be promoted we'd be pretty much relegated again by February. We'd be travelling to the four corners of England at eye watering cost, including Tuesday nights at Dover etc. We'd get a trickle of away fans from all but the biggest/more northern teams coming to us, limiting our match-day income (Grimsby Town would regularly get away followings of less than 20 fans at Blundell Park). We'd be playing big, fast and physical teams who'd bully us off the park each week. The NLN may not be our destination of choice but there are worse places to be while we get our house in order or if we never do

Great post Nick, totally agree.

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[liddle_4_ever]

To break the contract at BM would cost more than £200,000, maybe more than £300,000. We can't afford to leave. It's not ideal but it's what we have for the foreseeable. So the options are stand still for 20+ years and then try to get our own ground or develop BM to meet our needs.


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[banktopp]

How is it that a team that was more than capable of challenging for a play-off place last year can disintegrate so dramatically this season.
Motivation ? and if so then that surely is the managers job. In a phrase often used in the premiership, he has lost the dressing room.

[m62exile]

How is it that a team that was more than capable of challenging for a play-off place last year can disintegrate so dramatically this season.
Motivation ? and if so then that surely is the managers job. In a phrase often used in the premiership, he has lost the dressing room.

We were dead lucky with injuries last year and had great momentum going in to the season, much like Blyth and Spennymoor have this season.

We probably punched a bit above our weight.

This seasons the opposite so far, loads of injuries, no momentum but having said that the level of performance is much, much poorer.

[DarloDave40]

I can understand everyone's dissapointment but South Shields have lost one in 44 games they came to win. I'm not making excuses but we have had plenty of injuries, young lads on the bench with little first team experience and we are missing Brown.

[loan_star]

Genuine question here for those who are pro-investment, what is the big rush and mad panic to get promoted ASAP? Is it that MG might leave if we don't keep moving forward. Is it our expectation of history? Given that we were playing in cow sheds just 4 years ago and we are now at a level where we can as fans go to comfortable grounds and see some established clubs again, what is the issue with being in the NLN for a couple more years? I'm just genuinely curious to hear the pros of short-termism.

The problem is that if we don't get investment then we can expect a few more performances and / or results like yesterday, treading water or even getting relegated. Then the usual suspects will be out in force demanding yet another managers head or for A.Nother to be picked instead of so and so. Never ending cycle of people whinging and manager rotation. Constant bucket rattling week in week out too.

Personally I am in favour of the right investment but not just any old investment.
Sacking Gray is also not an option in my opinion.

[banktopp]

It is not losing that is the problem but the manner of the defeats that is dissappointing.
No energy, no urgency, to quote Craig Stoddart. Clueless, low work rate to quote others.

[liddle_4_ever]

Loan Star we treaded water for something like 17 years in League 2. Yes, during that time people called for the managers head and for different players to be selected. That happens at every club up and down the country.

Rattling buckets are not necessary if we don't get investment, but they make achieving our goal happen much faster.


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[theoriginalfatcat]

Earlier in the week, TDS suggested having a fans' forum. Initially I scoffed, but on the basis of today, I think it's now important. The wider fanbase certainly needs to discuss where we go from here in the long term.

Do forums ever achieve anything? I'm all for a select group of fans to meet up to have discussions about stuff like this but open forums always end up being a waste of time. People either repeat something that was said 5 minutes earlier or go off on a tangent about pies or the air freshener used in the toilets. You get the ones who just love to slag off the hard work of those at the top and those for who Gray can do no wrong and everyone gets at each others throats. Plus half the time you can't hear whats said because the microphones cut out or they don't know how to use them!

You make good points. The last Fans forum was shambolic - anyone who was there will know what I mean!

I've been to a few over the years and thinking back most of them have ended up getting controversial, bad tempered or just plain silly.

The best one I remember was when Hodgson took questions in Strikers Bar 99/00. Luke Raine tried to muzzle him however Hodgson said he could answer by himself, but only on questions relating to football - and this he did very well.

It would be great to have the thoughts of M.G. on football matters and thoughts of our new CEO on other stuff, perhaps some kind of online video interview?

PS, good post D.G.

[Allan Quatermain]

We need to hear from our CEO as to what he has achieved so far and what his ideas for the future are. Program notes containing vague hints aren't enough, we need facts and the chance to question him. Either a fans forum or a forum for DFCSG members as long as it's something that can't be manipulated in the way an online Q and A can.

Agreed. Roadrunner made one of his cryptic points earlier about our CEO being MG's drinking buddy. In his initial interview he did say that he'd had a connection with MG to come to the club, something to do with being a director at the MG academy, although someone would need to research this better than me. He also talked about the need for outside investment soon if we are to progress. Therefore if he is a link to MG, what is his brief? He states about wanting to get back in the FL with our own ground, so again, outside investment is being championed by him. So has he been brought in to stabilise ourselves long term or to gain us short term success?

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... 0/officers

[super_les_mcjannet]

Was looking at that earlier, I knew they had known each other for a while but I guess he has been in business with Gray for the last 5 years at least.

How hard it is to get people to step up, it makes me nervous to question the association and if he takes more direction from MG or the people who own the club. However this is something that we have to be aware of.

This bit was the interesting part in the programme notes which Johnston seems to hint at most weeks.

"We are now at the time of the year when we need to increase our fundraising for the new seated stand. Whilst I am in the process of working on a sustainable future for the club, it is still imperative that we continue to fundraise for the facilities here at Blackwell Meadows"

I presume DFCSG are fully aware of what he means by sustainable and are fully signed up to it, if not then that would worry me.

[DarloDave40]

It's a dormant company!!

[roadrunner]

Only seats he,s bothered about is in the pub in Tudhoe.

[Allan Quatermain]

It's a dormant company!!

Yes it is.

The question was raised about where their relationship started and that shows they were directors working together at the CoE from 2012. Not a criticism but if people are interested in knowing how tight they are, this may help them understand.

I'm not overly concerned, I have my own views which are not for this forum but have been made plain to principal officers of the majority shareholder.

[Yarblockos]

One puzzling issue with Singh was why he would be interested in investing in the club without its own ground and little income. One of the possible motivations was that the club could be used as a way to bring through younger players from the MG academy and sell them on. Also, if the MG academy promised youngsters a direct route into a football club it would make it a very attractive proposition for young footballers. Would the MG academy benefit from private investment in the club? Is there an unspoken concern here that the manager and CEO may be using the football club as a way to enhance this kind of business model? I'm not sure, but I think there is a danger that Gray becomes so tied up in the investment and ownership of the club that he becomes unsackable.

[super_les_mcjannet]

One puzzling issue with Singh was why he would be interested in investing in the club without its own ground and little income. One of the possible motivations was that the club could be used as a way to bring through younger players from the MG academy and sell them on. Also, if the MG academy promised youngsters a direct route into a football club it would make it a very attractive proposition for young footballers. Would the MG academy benefit from private investment in the club? Is there an unspoken concern here that the manager and CEO may be using the football club as a way to enhance this kind of business model? I'm not sure, but I think there is a danger that Gray becomes so tied up in the investment and ownership of the club that he becomes unsackable.

The belief was very much that Singh wants to get his hands on the Arena, owning DFC gives him a genuine reason to do that and no doubt would support the ok on any development.

It's the only real angle that makes sense to me and also fulfils our ambition of our own ground which is FL ready, so resolves that issue also.

Maybe this is wide of the mark, who knows.

[The Golden Hairclip]

One puzzling issue with Singh was why he would be interested in investing in the club without its own ground and little income. One of the possible motivations was that the club could be used as a way to bring through younger players from the MG academy and sell them on. Also, if the MG academy promised youngsters a direct route into a football club it would make it a very attractive proposition for young footballers. Would the MG academy benefit from private investment in the club? Is there an unspoken concern here that the manager and CEO may be using the football club as a way to enhance this kind of business model? I'm not sure, but I think there is a danger that Gray becomes so tied up in the investment and ownership of the club that he becomes unsackable.

The belief was very much that Singh wants to get his hands on the Arena, owning DFC gives him a genuine reason to do that and no doubt would support the ok on any development.

It's the only real angle that makes sense to me and also fulfils our ambition of our own ground which is FL ready, so resolves that issue also.

Maybe this is wide of the mark, who knows.

Spot on


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[roadrunner]

Plan A. Move back to the Arena. With S
Plan B. Bring young players in from abroad into new academy ( brought in by H)
Plan C Houses/apartments on land for above(. Looked after by P)

Football and business model looked after by M
And we all live happily ever after.

[lo36789]

Plan A. Move back to the Arena. With S
Plan B. Bring young players in from abroad into new academy ( brought in by H)
Plan C Houses/apartments on land for above(. Looked after by P)

Football and business model looked after by M
And we all live happily ever after.

So a profitable housing business (on land which council will not allow to be used for anything but the land use for which is was granted) weighed down by £1million loss making football subdivision.

The only way the land use changes is if someone say dangles a "I will bankrupt your community's football club unless you do as I say" threat to the council...oh wait...we are back to 2010-2012 all over again.

[spen666]

A number of you so called supporters of Darlington FC should take a look at yourselves and ask whether your actions are actually supporting or harming the club.

Yes, things could be done differently.

Have the lessons of earlier this year not been learned. After the seats fiasco, 2 board members resigned partly because of abuse directed at them. This has left the club short of volunteers.


Calls for people to go are not helpful without replacements being in place.

If the CEO goes who takes over?

If Martin Gray goes, then who manages the club.


The success since 2012 is incredible, but be realistic it cannot be maintained.

Think before the vitriol and abuse flies. It's not helping the club

Yes, things are not as perfect as everyone would like them to be, but the vitriol towards fellow fans,bolsters,vstaff, coaches, board members etc is not helping the club.

[QUAKERMAN2]

Totally agree that people just need to calm down and ease off a little.Wanting MG to go is crazy at this stage of the season, let's wait and see what unfolds over the next couple of weeks....we are 2 points from a playoff place for gods sake, if the rumours are right about players leaving then let's see how Martin replaces them.Give the guy a chance, look where we were 5 years ago to where we are now.

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[TDS]

This is a good thread and I believe the issues with fans-forums are right, maybe some other medium could be utilised to better effect, the last thing we need is a repeat of the last one. Some of that was down to the fans, but Gray dropped a huge bollock that night and we are still seeing the issue with what he said to this day. Speaking of short-termism, the only thing that is a constant here is MG himself.

We need to also know what is stopping the fans putting in, and mitigate any fears that we clearly have (I'm still amazed people haven't got the odd tenner lying about to keep the most recent fund going - it's stagnant). Gray and Johnston, what are their aims, does Johnston spend his paid-time trying to get us out of the BM contract and get us into the Arena? If so, wasted time and wasted money, but Gray's ambition would probably see that he explores all avenues. How do the supporters group see us prospering beyond the seat issue and do the fans want Gray's budget increasing (gamble with no definite return) or do they want a better viewing experience and a year or two consolidating?

There's too much going on and still no real leadership from the Club (I understand it is hard). We need to be on the same page from top to bottom and if Gray and Johnston have an agenda then it needs discussing.

[Nigel Batches Beard]

A number of you so called supporters of Darlington FC should take a look at yourselves and ask whether your actions are actually supporting or harming the club.

Yes, things could be done differently.

Have the lessons of earlier this year not been learned. After the seats fiasco, 2 board members resigned partly because of abuse directed at them. This has left the club short of volunteers.


Calls for people to go are not helpful without replacements being in place.

If the CEO goes who takes over?

If Martin Gray goes, then who manages the club.


The success since 2012 is incredible, but be realistic it cannot be maintained.

Think before the vitriol and abuse flies. It's not helping the club

Yes, things are not as perfect as everyone would like them to be, but the vitriol towards fellow fans,bolsters,vstaff, coaches, board members etc is not helping the club.

first reaction - dismiss this with the usual"F*CK OFF SPEN" post
hate to say it, but there are valid points in there?
having been a supporter since the start of the seventies , our current situation is concerning but not one to get hysterical about with knee jerk reactions

[loan_star]

A number of you so called supporters of Darlington FC should take a look at yourselves and ask whether your actions are actually supporting or harming the club.

Yes, things could be done differently.

Have the lessons of earlier this year not been learned. After the seats fiasco, 2 board members resigned partly because of abuse directed at them. This has left the club short of volunteers.


Calls for people to go are not helpful without replacements being in place.

If the CEO goes who takes over?

If Martin Gray goes, then who manages the club.

The success since 2012 is incredible, but be realistic it cannot be maintained.

Think before the vitriol and abuse flies. It's not helping the club

Yes, things are not as perfect as everyone would like them to be, but the vitriol towards fellow fans,bolsters,vstaff, coaches, board members etc is not helping the club.

For once you post a lot of sense.
This all started with the hounding out of two decent board members. The Gray outburst was a part of this so fingers cant just be pointed in his direction for the fall out from this. There are several people who need to take a good long look at themselves.