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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:59 am 
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al_quaker wrote:
After my initial outburst of disbelief last night, I too hope that nobody blames the board for this (although they will as still, even now, some think Gray is the messiah). They were obviously put in an impossible position. Gray used his success to basically make himself the club. Somebody above made a good point. Darlington 1883 FC basically became Martin Gray FC. We now have our proper name back, and so it's time to have a proper relationship between board members and management team.

I wonder if any of the previous board members, whether that be football club or SG, would be willing to come back into the fold now that Gray is gone and hopefully we have a manager (or managers!) who knows their place?


I'm of the same mind as well. We are very disappointed with the way this has turned out, and the Northern Echo piece quoted above also shows how much MG has been running rings around everyone. It is certainly unhelpful to start a witch hunt over any suggestion that others at the club should or could have reined him in. And I agree that it would be a great outcome if MG'S departure might tempt former board members back now that they might feel that they could have a real input at the club rather than just have to agree with what MG decided (as increasingly appears to be the case).

One point that has been mentioned is that the board were between a rock and a hard place when dealing with MG'S contract and requests for more money as there would have been outrage had he walked in the summer if there had not been some sort of effort to meet his budget targets. This is understandable in the context of where we were at the end of last season, after several seasons of massive success, and missing out on the playoffs due to an oversight of the league rules. MG remained in a powerful position in most fans eyes and that effectively tied the hands of the board.

In hindsight it is easier to see that MG may well have been playing the fans and the board off against one another with both parties being afraid of him walking lest he be offended. It seems obvious now that such a situation must not be allowed to happen again, but also suggests that the fans and the board need to have a much closer communication and consultation over what is in the best interests of the club.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:13 am 
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divas wrote:
My opinion wrote:
shawry wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
Looks like the fuck up was made when setting up the existing contract...

"Darlington had little bargaining power as the terms of Gray's contract entitled them to a cash payment only if he left to join a a club in the EFL."

Its the kind of oversight that might lead to not to realise we needed 500 seats to make the playoffs.
So we gave him an escape clause that we would only need his contract paying off if it was to a league side? Wonderful

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Lets be right about this...It won't have been an oversight.
Gray held all the aces and probably dictaed the terms of his new contract..If the board had not agreed to these terms and Gray left because of lack of agreement, uncovered would have gone into melt down and once again the board would be slaughtered
Damned if you do and damned if you don.t


Absolutely bang on, and not just this situation either. The goodwill he'd built up with the fans before the fans forum made going against him almost impossible - as a volunteer director it just wasn't worth it - I mean look what happened with the seat situation.

Going forward this is a chance to get the right lines of command established for the good of the club from owners down through to staff.


I feel sure the full extent of yet another event with MG at the centre has not yet run its entire controversial course. Divas eludes to this "not just this situation either"

The duplicitous manner in which he has conducted the whole affair, which by the way goes back to well before the infamous fans forum outburst, should surely now even convince the most ardent "Martin is God" fan, that it was and is "All About The Self" the supposed "mutual trust" was only another plank to strengthen his grip and hold over well meaning and good Former Directors. He played one of against the other as and when it suited. The first to try to curtail him, Martin Jesper, soon realised MG lack of judgement and irresponsible approach to budgeting placed the club at risk.

It became evident to me early in 2013 that his modus operandi was one of intimidation, threat and bullying to get his own way regardless. those fans who attended low level fans forums at Northallerton etc. will have witnessed first hand how dismissive and rude he was to any critic.

Anyway , he has gone and good riddance. We can seek solace that someday, hopefully not to long in the future his tenure at York will end in failure. That's the way (save a few exceptions Alex F) of football management. When it comes we can smugly say "what did you expect"

We do need to examine the interaction between DFC & MGFA, even down to the recently sponsored van. If its an unhealthy relationship we need to pick it out. Lets not forget his Academy is embedded in the Darlington community, at a council owned/run facility. Something local DFC constituents may want to remind local councillors of when it comes to elections. I for one will not be sending my stepson or grandsons on any more of the MGFA sporting weeks or weekly training sessions. Perhaps others may want to consider too.

Regarding compensation, that is extremely unlikely. MG wrote his own contract and the red herring of time relation was only another ruse to convince further his followers of evidence of commitment to DFC and the fan model.

With respect to the proposed friendly, why not. Just boycott it. If there is anything left after expense, which is unlikely as it at best going to be cost neutral, thank you very much.

Right now, given the known relationship, I worry about having David Johnston in situ. The potential for damage in future dealings has to be of concern.
John Tempest: NO such concern DFC through and through. If ever there was a time when he and Joanne Cameron needed the fans to be on side its NOW

This is a new chapter in the turbulent history of DFC, we are used to riding the storm, however we are still here.

Lets start Saturday by getting down to BM and supporting the "Pheonix" once again.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:24 am 
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To be honest, regardless of compensation for Gray or any of our players, I'm feeling positive about our future as a club now.

Since the back end of last season I've felt well and truly as if Martin Gray held too much power. Too many fans bowed down to what he said without question and this is always a worrying thing, especially in a fan-owned situation.

He's gone now. Hopefully most people's eyes have been opened to what has been clear to some for a while. We can hopefully now put in a place a board structure that is open and operates with the correct level of scrutiny and hierarchy.

Whoever our next manager is, I hope they're not someone with a history at the club. They can earn a hero-status rather than having it from day one.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:
Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:31 am 
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For me the main thing the board did wrong was to trust Gray. They, like most of us, believed he had the best interests of the club at heart. How wrong we all were.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:35 am 
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Spyman wrote:
Whoever our next manager is, I hope they're not someone with a history at the club. They can earn a hero-status rather than having it from day one.


I sort of agree I do feel the Atkinson / Gregan is a consolidation piece and lets give them a chance. I think we see this season out and let the playing side tick over but really focus on the off field.

Chris Hardy was my preferred option when I thought Gray was potentially going to go to York in the summer. There would clearly a question of availability / cost / suitability (as clearly I am not an expert in managerial appointments) but we have time to work that all through.

I dunno I think there is a fair population who saw that MG was in it for MG. All the nonsense of "but he's so loyal - look at what he's done for us" was always just that. He was a paid employee who managed to weald so much power because a fair amount of the fan base seemed to forget he was picking up a pay slip.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:38 am 
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dfc4me wrote:
For me the main thing the board did wrong was to trust Gray. They, like most of us, believed he had the best interests of the club at heart. How wrong we all were.

I'm not sure they trusted Gray - he just held all the cards.

It was obvious to some that Gray was looking after number one for a long time. I don't believe it wouldn't have been obvious to those dealing with him on a regular basis.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:
Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:45 am 
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I echo your sentiments and admire the use of "duplicitous" in the same week as Dickens is quoted but weren't we always Darlington FC and not a "phoenix" club? I remember some heated discussions about that on here! I accept we rose like a phoenix though!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:30 am 
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lo36789 wrote:
Spyman wrote:
Whoever our next manager is, I hope they're not someone with a history at the club. They can earn a hero-status rather than having it from day one.


I sort of agree I do feel the Atkinson / Gregan is a consolidation piece and lets give them a chance. I think we see this season out and let the playing side tick over but really focus on the off field.

Chris Hardy was my preferred option when I thought Gray was potentially going to go to York in the summer. There would clearly a question of availability / cost / suitability (as clearly I am not an expert in managerial appointments) but we have time to work that all through.

I dunno I think there is a fair population who saw that MG was in it for MG. All the nonsense of "but he's so loyal - look at what he's done for us" was always just that. He was a paid employee who managed to weald so much power because a fair amount of the fan base seemed to forget he was picking up a pay slip.


Good point he actually got paid for his services. Even Peter Barron seems to have forgotten this point.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:34 am 
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don'tbuythesun wrote:
I echo your sentiments and admire the use of "duplicitous" in the same week as Dickens is quoted but weren't we always Darlington FC and not a "phoenix" club? I remember some heated discussions about that on here! I accept we rose like a phoenix though!


Not the Wurst references you might find on the site this week


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:34 pm 
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finally caught up on stuff.

So basically, Gray engineered his position at the club to become probably the most powerful individual.

Sounds awfy familiar to how Pedan, Reynolds, Haughton, Singh wanted things to be. No wonder MG wanted RS involved....great minds and all that.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Comfortably_numb wrote:
finally caught up on stuff.

So basically, Gray engineered his position at the club to become probably the most powerful individual.

Sounds awfy familiar to how Pedan, Reynolds, Haughton, Singh wanted things to be. No wonder MG wanted RS involved....great minds and all that.

I'm not sure Gray is smart enough to have engineered everything. I'm sure he set out with good intentions but once we climbed a few leagues and he started to get a bit of attention he probably started to think he was bigger than the club and saw the club and it's situation as a millstone which would prevent him progressing.

I think it's probably at that point that he started using his bully-boy attitude to get what he wanted.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:
Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:04 pm 
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divas wrote:
My opinion wrote:
shawry wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
Looks like the fuck up was made when setting up the existing contract...

"Darlington had little bargaining power as the terms of Gray's contract entitled them to a cash payment only if he left to join a a club in the EFL."

Its the kind of oversight that might lead to not to realise we needed 500 seats to make the playoffs.
So we gave him an escape clause that we would only need his contract paying off if it was to a league side? Wonderful

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Lets be right about this...It won't have been an oversight.
Gray held all the aces and probably dictaed the terms of his new contract..If the board had not agreed to these terms and Gray left because of lack of agreement, uncovered would have gone into melt down and once again the board would be slaughtered
Damned if you do and damned if you don.t


Absolutely bang on, and not just this situation either. The goodwill he'd built up with the fans before the fans forum made going against him almost impossible - as a volunteer director it just wasn't worth it - I mean look what happened with the seat situation.

Going forward this is a chance to get the right lines of command established for the good of the club from owners down through to staff.



Dead right Devas and we now need full transparency of any arrangements with MGFA still in place.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:30 pm 
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MGFA Core business is essentially working with Darlington College providing BTEC Qualifications at various levels.

The general advertising material often refers to him as "Darlington Manager" as well as ex professional footballer. This probably needs revisiting, best when he can declare Ex York City Manager ..IMO.

We need to understand the fringes of the business, such as the youth set up. The facilitation of prospective talents etc. right down to the Weekly sessions for youngsters, and how the link with DFC is entwined with advertising etc. even as I said the recently sponsored van, plastered with MGFA. The further we drill the murkier I expect it will be.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:38 pm 
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tezza wrote:
MGFA Core business is essentially working with Darlington College providing BTEC Qualifications at various levels.

The general advertising material often refers to him as "Darlington Manager" as well as ex professional footballer. This probably needs revisiting, best when he can declare Ex York City Manager ..IMO.

We need to understand the fringes of the business, such as the youth set up. The facilitation of prospective talents etc. right down to the Weekly sessions for youngsters, and how the link with DFC is entwined with advertising etc. even as I said the recently sponsored van, plastered with MGFA. The further we drill the murkier I expect it will be.



And are Atkinson and Gregan contracted to the club through MGFA...


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:47 pm 
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Darlo-and-Back wrote:
tezza wrote:
MGFA Core business is essentially working with Darlington College providing BTEC Qualifications at various levels.

The general advertising material often refers to him as "Darlington Manager" as well as ex professional footballer. This probably needs revisiting, best when he can declare Ex York City Manager ..IMO.

We need to understand the fringes of the business, such as the youth set up. The facilitation of prospective talents etc. right down to the Weekly sessions for youngsters, and how the link with DFC is entwined with advertising etc. even as I said the recently sponsored van, plastered with MGFA. The further we drill the murkier I expect it will be.



And are Atkinson and Gregan contracted to the club through MGFA...


And just a thought but......

none of the playing staff are employed by MGFA are they?

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:
Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:38 pm 
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Best to follow the money to get to grips with the extent of involvement.

As for the use of DFC as a reference etc. Then standard to levy a charge or resind the right of use.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:09 pm 
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There'll surely be a contract between MGFA and DFC that's completely separate to MGs employment contract. If there is then nothing will change until it comes up for renewal.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:14 pm 
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Don't bet on it and we need absolute transparency on this. No hiding behind 'commercial sensitivity' from the club Board.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:01 pm 
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dfc4me wrote:
For me the main thing the board did wrong was to trust Gray. They, like most of us, believed he had the best interests of the club at heart. How wrong we all were.


Not sure which Board you are referring to: the FC Board or the DFCSG one. Because I can assure you, he was not trusted by all members of both.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:42 pm 
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Allan Quatermain wrote:
dfc4me wrote:
For me the main thing the board did wrong was to trust Gray. They, like most of us, believed he had the best interests of the club at heart. How wrong we all were.


Not sure which Board you are referring to: the FC Board or the DFCSG one. Because I can assure you, he was not trusted by all members of both.


:eh: :?: Some of both or one of one?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:57 pm 
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I look forward to hearing the outcome regarding compensation. I see loads of posts about Gray leaving and taking players with him, yet all of these people are/were under contract? If anyone is able to leave free of charge then the board have a lot to answer for. I don't care if they're volunteers, they'll have dropped a massive bollock and should explain themselves. (IF this is the case of course)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:43 am 
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Santino wrote:
I don't care if they're volunteers, they'll have dropped a massive bollock and should explain themselves. (IF this is the case of course)


Volunteers do their best with the advice they get. The reason why many qualified people like me won't volunteer is attitudes like yours.

It's equally the reason why we have crap politicians nowadays. More money and a far easier life can be had by working elsewhere...


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:08 am 
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eek wrote:
Santino wrote:
I don't care if they're volunteers, they'll have dropped a massive bollock and should explain themselves. (IF this is the case of course)


Volunteers do their best with the advice they get. The reason why many qualified people like me won't volunteer is attitudes like yours.

It's equally the reason why we have crap politicians nowadays. More money and a far easier life can be had by working elsewhere...


Very well put :clap:

but I don't blame people for maintaining these attitudes - addressing why they persist and doing something about it should be very high on the agenda of the outgoing/incoming DFCSG Board.

I hope we can attract people who want to have a go at tackling that specific problem when invitations go out very shortly for nominations for directors.

The DFCSG needs to operate as a more closely-knit group. The board needs to reach out more and provide the members with the means, motive, and opportunity to have a greater say in how the club moves forward from here.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:42 am 
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My understanding is that Gray almost went to York in the summer. When Gary Mills stalled on signing a new deal at Bootham Crescent, the wheels were set in motion for it to happen, then Mills did sign up and everything fell through.

Dave Penney has been seen at a few York games in the last month or so, so was obviously lined up a while back. I do wonder if there was some kind of clause in Gary Mills contract around league position/FA Cup status on 1st October and once it was clear that this wasn't met then he knew he was going and York had a 'unofficial' conversation with Gray along the lines of "are you still interested if the position were to become available" - lets not kid ourselves, this type of things happens almost every day in football especially with player movements.

In my opinion, it is the board that need looking at here, they accepted MG's resignation, seemingly without even trying to barter for compensation from York.
(Although, I have since heard that there will be some deal discussed in the background)

I imagine it all happened so quickly as York just got out the paperwork from the summer again. Can't imagine that MG's demands would have changed much/at all so it was just a case of signing the contract and confirming Penney.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:50 am 
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Sounds an entirely feasible scenario as opposed to Gray's laughable account of the chronology.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:39 am 
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This has so obviously been on the cards for some time, Gray has not told it as it is, very uncomfortable on BBC Tees, does he really think we are all that stupid to believe his Saturday night/ Sunday morning comments.Good riddance to the guy, a cloud may well have been lifted from the club and at least Ray won't be a bag of nerves interviewing our Brian and Sean.Still bitter the way Gray has disrespected our club and not acknowledged the fantastic efforts of the likes of John Tempest , volunteers and fans.Really hope York don't go up this season and pressure mounts on Gray which it will.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:16 am 
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eek wrote:
Santino wrote:
I don't care if they're volunteers, they'll have dropped a massive bollock and should explain themselves. (IF this is the case of course)


Volunteers do their best with the advice they get. The reason why many qualified people like me won't volunteer is attitudes like yours.



:clap: :clap:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:48 am 
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poppyfield wrote:
eek wrote:
Santino wrote:
I don't care if they're volunteers, they'll have dropped a massive bollock and should explain themselves. (IF this is the case of course)


Volunteers do their best with the advice they get. The reason why many qualified people like me won't volunteer is attitudes like yours.



:clap: :clap:


Well, they've either dropped a bollock or they haven't. Doesn't it matter if you drop a bollock if you are a volunteer? And incidentally, isn't David Johnson on a retainer rather than being a volunteer? I can't believe a man of his experience would be that naive about letting someone leave to go to a rival firm.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:14 am 
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Yarblockos wrote:
poppyfield wrote:
eek wrote:
Santino wrote:
I don't care if they're volunteers, they'll have dropped a massive bollock and should explain themselves. (IF this is the case of course)


Volunteers do their best with the advice they get. The reason why many qualified people like me won't volunteer is attitudes like yours.



:clap: :clap:


Well, they've either dropped a bollock or they haven't. Doesn't it matter if you drop a bollock if you are a volunteer? And incidentally, isn't David Johnson on a retainer rather than being a volunteer? I can't believe a man of his experience would be that naive about letting someone leave to go to a rival firm.



So hound yet more volunteers for in your view dropping a bollock....

As EEK says is it any wonder the club has a lack of volunteers willing to step up to take action to help the club.

Its far easier to be a keyboard warrior and slate those who do try to help .


Sadly the constant hounding and criticism towards volunteers is why people do not come forward.

There is a big difference between expressing your views and the highly critical attitude of some on here.

For those who are so critical of the volunteers, why don't you step up to the mark and show the volunteers how it should be done.

Some people should think about the effect on the volunteers current and potential, and the club, of the way they express their views

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:27 am 
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Yarblockos wrote:
Well, they've either dropped a bollock or they haven't. Doesn't it matter if you drop a bollock if you are a volunteer? And incidentally, isn't David Johnson on a retainer rather than being a volunteer? I can't believe a man of his experience would be that naive about letting someone leave to go to a rival firm.


Can't keep getting rid of people every time they make a mistake, eventually you run out of people.

Lessons need to be learned and the club needs to always be open, however the fans also need to be more understanding.

The crucifying of the board at the last forum went too far, even though the mistake was a vey big mistake.

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