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 Post subject: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:04 pm 
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Do you think the supporters of Darlington would be open to outside investment into the club.I would appreciate your views.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:18 pm 
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Munro wrote:
Do you think the supporters of Darlington would be open to outside investment into the club.I would appreciate your views.
Yes absolutely, I think the overwhelming feeling I got from the issues earlier this year was that investment is more than welcome, we just want some safeguards and we don't want RS.

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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:24 pm 
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Thankyou for the reply,I am sure any potential investor would be very pleased to hear that.More views/opinions appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:44 pm 
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I'm certainly along the lines of Shawry, I.E safeguarding in place, and I do have the feeling that the majority of fans would listen to what any investor had to say, as would the board going off the comments on the NetCafe earlier this month.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:49 pm 
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By the sounds of it there may well be some tentative steps towards some outside investment. :think:

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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:53 pm 
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Munro wrote:
Thankyou for the reply,I am sure any potential investor would be very pleased to hear that.More views/opinions appreciated.


It all depends on what terms any offer is made, what the investor or investors want to achieve and how they want to work with the current owner - i.e. the fans.

I think most fans would take a pragmatic but cautious approach to any potential investor.

In practical (& simplified) terms any investment taking a greater than 15% equity stake in Darlington FC would need a 75% vote in approval from DFC Supporters Group members (current membership circa 1,000). This is a high barrier and therefore it would take a very attractive offer to succeed in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:57 pm 
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Yes to investment from me... just not Raj Singh...


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:59 pm 
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P.s. why do you ask? Are you an investor? :)


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:00 pm 
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Yes Investment from me too-We as fans can only take the club so far.

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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:00 pm 
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Very open to it. It's the natural progression. However, the devil is in the detail. Robbie Painter's comments are bang on. Don't think you'll get a better answer.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:13 pm 
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What Robbie said.

Willing (within reason) to listen to anyone who comes forwards, but I would take a fair bit of convincing to vote in favour of relinquishing overall fan control.

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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:21 pm 
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Again thankyou for the replies,yes indeed I am a potential investor.I would not be looking to take control of your club,just looking at ways that I may be able to work alongside a fan owned model.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:21 pm 
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Robbie Painter wrote:
Munro wrote:
Thankyou for the reply,I am sure any potential investor would be very pleased to hear that.More views/opinions appreciated.


It all depends on what terms any offer is made, what the investor or investors want to achieve and how they want to work with the current owner - i.e. the fans.

I think most fans would take a pragmatic but cautious approach to any potential investor.

In practical (& simplified) terms any investment taking a greater than 15% equity stake in Darlington FC would need a 75% vote in approval from DFC Supporters Group members (current membership circa 1,000). This is a high barrier and therefore it would take a very attractive offer to succeed in my opinion.


I can’t imagine there’s a que of investors out there but what is clear looking at the funding pitches we are reliant on the same 300 people actually putting money in so the fan funded model is actually about the 300 who regularly put the money in.

This can’t go on and IMO we have gone as far as we can go with being fan funded. Fan owned is a different matter but to have a 75% vote on any changes when only 300 people actually put funds in is just ridiculous.

There are ways to welcome investment and keeping the voting rights of the DFCSG is key however the 75% rule is not workable and needs to be changed to allow investment.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:28 pm 
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I have no wish for anybody other than the fans to be a majority shareholder of the club.

I am happy for outside investment to be made into DFC but I would only want that to be for a maximum share ownership of 15%. That is all that is available at present without going to a vote by the membership. I suspect that fact, along with other factors, do not make DFC an attractive proposition for an investor so I don't expect many offers to be forthcoming.

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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:28 pm 
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DarloDave40 wrote:
Robbie Painter wrote:
Munro wrote:
Thankyou for the reply,I am sure any potential investor would be very pleased to hear that.More views/opinions appreciated.


It all depends on what terms any offer is made, what the investor or investors want to achieve and how they want to work with the current owner - i.e. the fans.

I think most fans would take a pragmatic but cautious approach to any potential investor.

In practical (& simplified) terms any investment taking a greater than 15% equity stake in Darlington FC would need a 75% vote in approval from DFC Supporters Group members (current membership circa 1,000). This is a high barrier and therefore it would take a very attractive offer to succeed in my opinion.


I can’t imagine there’s a que of investors out there but what is clear looking at the funding pitches we are reliant on the same 300 people actually putting money in so the fan funded model is actually about the 300 who regularly put the money in.

This can’t go on and IMO we have gone as far as we can go with being fan funded. Fan owned is a different matter but to have a 75% vote on any changes when only 300 people actually put funds in is just ridiculous.

There are ways to welcome investment and keeping the voting rights of the DFCSG is key however the 75% rule is not workable and needs to be changed to allow investment.

Spot on.
We’ll never agree on anything with the 75% rule and the club need to be open minded (but naturally careful) with regards to any potential outside investment.



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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:31 pm 
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As the 75% rule comes from the articles of the club, and to change the articles of the club requires a 75% vote, would it not need a 75% vote in favour of changing the 75% rule....?

EDIT: I'm personally happy with the 75% rule. Would ensure any significant change is backed by a very large proportion of the fanbase.

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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:38 pm 
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DarloDave40 wrote:
Robbie Painter wrote:
Munro wrote:
Thankyou for the reply,I am sure any potential investor would be very pleased to hear that.More views/opinions appreciated.


It all depends on what terms any offer is made, what the investor or investors want to achieve and how they want to work with the current owner - i.e. the fans.

I think most fans would take a pragmatic but cautious approach to any potential investor.

In practical (& simplified) terms any investment taking a greater than 15% equity stake in Darlington FC would need a 75% vote in approval from DFC Supporters Group members (current membership circa 1,000). This is a high barrier and therefore it would take a very attractive offer to succeed in my opinion.


I can’t imagine there’s a que of investors out there but what is clear looking at the funding pitches we are reliant on the same 300 people actually putting money in so the fan funded model is actually about the 300 who regularly put the money in.

This can’t go on and IMO we have gone as far as we can go with being fan funded. Fan owned is a different matter but to have a 75% vote on any changes when only 300 people actually put funds in is just ridiculous.

There are ways to welcome investment and keeping the voting rights of the DFCSG is key however the 75% rule is not workable and needs to be changed to allow investment.


One member, one vote. Doesn't matter if you put in £100k or nothing - pay your £20 per year to be a member and you have the same equal vote as anyone else. 75% seems a reasonable level to me for a major decision on ownership.

Nothing to stop any investor offering to buy up to 15% of equity in DFC right now and working alongside the current owners to build a better Darlington Football Club.

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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:44 pm 
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Allan Quatermain wrote:
I have no wish for anybody other than the fans to be a majority shareholder of the club.

I am happy for outside investment to be made into DFC but I would only want that to be for a maximum share ownership of 15%. That is all that is available at present without going to a vote by the membership. I suspect that fact, along with other factors, do not make DFC an attractive proposition for an investor so I don't expect many offers to be forthcoming.


Although, respectfully, not everybody feels the same way.

Talking to people we’ve a real range opinions on this. For some people remaining fan owned is in itself the objective, others would want investment tomorrow, many are cautious but open minded..


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:47 pm 
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al_quaker wrote:
As the 75% rule comes from the articles of the club, and to change the articles of the club requires a 75% vote, would it not need a 75% vote in favour of changing the 75% rule....?

EDIT: I'm personally happy with the 75% rule. Would ensure any significant change is backed by a very large proportion of the fanbase.

To change the articles of association requires a special resolution and this requires a 75% majority vote. This is a requirement of the Companies Act 2006. To change this requirement would require a change in primary legislation - so, not a cat in hell's chance.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:53 pm 
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m62exile wrote:
Allan Quatermain wrote:
I have no wish for anybody other than the fans to be a majority shareholder of the club.

I am happy for outside investment to be made into DFC but I would only want that to be for a maximum share ownership of 15%. That is all that is available at present without going to a vote by the membership. I suspect that fact, along with other factors, do not make DFC an attractive proposition for an investor so I don't expect many offers to be forthcoming.


Although, respectfully, not everybody feels the same way.

Talking to people we’ve a real range opinions on this. For some people remaining fan owned is in itself the objective, others would want investment tomorrow, many are cautious but open minded..


Indeed, I understand that point completely and respect the views of those who feel differently. However, I just wanted to put across my point of view which may or may not be a minority view within the fanbase.

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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:58 pm 
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I smell a WUM...


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:09 pm 
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Maurice_Peddelty wrote:
al_quaker wrote:
As the 75% rule comes from the articles of the club, and to change the articles of the club requires a 75% vote, would it not need a 75% vote in favour of changing the 75% rule....?

EDIT: I'm personally happy with the 75% rule. Would ensure any significant change is backed by a very large proportion of the fanbase.

To change the articles of association requires a special resolution and this requires a 75% majority vote. This is a requirement of the Companies Act 2006. To change this requirement would require a change in primary legislation - so, not a cat in hell's chance.



So your saying 75% of the DFCSG not the fans have to vote for change?
If that’s the case and I’d imagine most of those 75% are fully behind the DFCSG fan funded model rather just fans who have a different view.
Does the DFC board know of this? If so they may as well hand over the reigns immediately to the DFCSG as based on above there’s not a cat in hell from the board bringing in serious investment.

If that was the case do you see a drop in DFCSG Membership and funding?


Last edited by DarloDave40 on Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:16 pm 
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As was said earlier, if you are pro-investment, join the Supporters Group and you have your vote. Then vote against the 75%. That's democracy.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:20 pm 
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Invest/Verb (with object)

1) put (money) into financial schemes, shares, property, or a commercial venture with the expectation of achieving a profit:


So bearing this in mind, before we go any further can someone explain where the profit might come from??

Because I can't see any profit available in DFC, and if someone wishes to donate or get involved in a heavy way then surely the channels are there for them to do that now.

In some ways we are in a great position. We live by our means and should no longer become victims of dodgy backstage deals and people pulling out when they lose interest or can't get what they want.

It's soul destroying to wake up in the morning and put the radio on to hear something like 'Darlington football Club will today be put into administration" I can remember this happening multiple times, so we need to remember our past and tread very carefully.

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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:26 pm 
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theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Invest/Verb (with object)

1) put (money) into financial schemes, shares, property, or a commercial venture with the expectation of achieving a profit:


So bearing this in mind, before we go any further can someone explain where the profit might come from??

Because I can't see any profit available in DFC, and if someone wishes to donate or get involved in a heavy way then surely the channels are there for them to do that now.

In some ways we are in a great position. We live by our means and should no longer become victims of dodgy backstage deals and people pulling out when they lose interest or can't get what they want.



It's soul destroying to wake up in the morning and put the radio on to hear something like 'Darlington football Club will today be put into administration" I can remember this happening multiple times, so we need to remember our past and tread very carefully.


Community shares are paid back to the DFCSG over 20 years starting in a couple of years I believe at the last forum, I’m not sure how that’s paid back to individuals though?


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:34 pm 
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DarloDave40 wrote:
Maurice_Peddelty wrote:
al_quaker wrote:
As the 75% rule comes from the articles of the club, and to change the articles of the club requires a 75% vote, would it not need a 75% vote in favour of changing the 75% rule....?

EDIT: I'm personally happy with the 75% rule. Would ensure any significant change is backed by a very large proportion of the fanbase.

To change the articles of association requires a special resolution and this requires a 75% majority vote. This is a requirement of the Companies Act 2006. To change this requirement would require a change in primary legislation - so, not a cat in hell's chance.



So your saying 75% of the DFCSG not the fans have to vote for change?
If that’s the case and I’d imagine most of those 75% are fully behind the DFCSG fan funded model rather just fans who have a different view.
Does the DFC board know of this? If so they may as well hand over the reigns immediately to the DFCSG as based on above there’s not a cat in hell from the board bringing in serious investment.

If that was the case do you see a drop in DFCSG Membership and funding?


DFCSG membership is the fans - approximately 1,000 of them. There is no barrier to join, bar £20 per year. For that you get a vote, plus a range of benefits & discounts at local companies.

DFC directors are of course aware of:
a) The structure of Darlington Football Club, how directors are appointed and who they are answerable to.
b) how DFCSG members vote on ownership change.

The primary function of the DFC board isn't to seek out new investment but rather is to run the Football Club business on a day-to-day basis in the best interests of its owners i.e. us.

As for not being able to bring in serious investment and achieve a 75%+ vote in favour - Portsmouth Supporters Trust got 80% in favour in the summer. So it can be done with the right offer.
http://www.pompeytrust.com/news/pst-sha ... o-tornante

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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:49 pm 
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Munro wrote:
Again thankyou for the replies,yes indeed I am a potential investor.I would not be looking to take control of your club,just looking at ways that I may be able to work alongside a fan owned model.

Munro, would you be willing to go into more detail about your proposal?


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:18 pm 
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At this time I would not think it fair to go into any detail.At this moment I am merely trying to gauge the feeling and appetite for the idea from the supporters and rightly pointed out, the owners of the club.If invited to invest you can be assured that I have the best interests for the club in mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:20 pm 
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Munro wrote:
At this time I would not think it fair to go into any detail.At this moment I am merely trying to gauge the feeling and appetite for the idea from the supporters and rightly pointed out, the owners of the club.If invited to invest you can be assured that I have the best interests for the club in mind.

The majority of people here are investors themselves, I doubt anyone is against investment here it's just all about understanding an investor's motive and intent.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:53 pm 
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What a great time to make a thread like this, on the day when we've launched the third round of fundraising to complete the new seats. Going by the last few months, rumours of new investment are only going to make fans hesitant to donate. Its almost as if its timed to hurt us.


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