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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:08 pm 
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Comfortably_numb wrote:
anyway we digress.

are we all happy for Ted Forster to invest in the club? Has he got your new number Darlo_Pete?

Ted's dead - he died just before he attended the FA Trophy Final in 2011.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11986

Here's the thread, for comedy gold.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:
Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:12 pm 
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divas wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
divas wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
If we put a terrace at the open end, how are we going to have enough seats for a football league capacity ground? We would need to demonstrate that we can increase to 1,000 seats... so what are we saying? Double the rows in the current seats? Doesn't that involve moving the stands back twice as far?


Where does it say we have to demonstrate we can increase to 1,000? You can get promotion to the FL with 500 seats and 4,000 capacity and have until March the following year to increase to 1,000 seats and then a couple of years to get to 2,000

Whilst it might seem short sighed I'm far more concerned about having a ground that will allow us to play at the level above which will probably be our natural level anyway. In the event of promotion to the FL we'd have a £1 million windfall and whilst not spending it on the playing budget would spell certain relegation it would give us the chance to make some serious ground improvements if used solely for the purpose. We'd also receive parachute payments in the next season(s)


http://www.safetyatsportsgrounds.org.uk ... nd-seating

Regarding moving the pitch, I'm not saying we do that at any point until we were to get to the FL....

I don't believe the NL is our natural level...


You should probably refer to the latest FA version.

http://www.thefa.com/-/media/thefacom-n ... ashx?la=en

I'm presuming you regard the Football League as our natural level then?


That's for the National league, not the Football league.

Given how much time the club has spent there throughout our history then yes.... but I don't believe in natural levels... your level is wherever you get to based on prudent decision making, yes budget, and also a bit of luck...


Last edited by SwansQuaker83 on Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:13 pm 
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SwansQuaker83 wrote:
divas wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
divas wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
If we put a terrace at the open end, how are we going to have enough seats for a football league capacity ground? We would need to demonstrate that we can increase to 1,000 seats... so what are we saying? Double the rows in the current seats? Doesn't that involve moving the stands back twice as far?


Where does it say we have to demonstrate we can increase to 1,000? You can get promotion to the FL with 500 seats and 4,000 capacity and have until March the following year to increase to 1,000 seats and then a couple of years to get to 2,000

Whilst it might seem short sighed I'm far more concerned about having a ground that will allow us to play at the level above which will probably be our natural level anyway. In the event of promotion to the FL we'd have a £1 million windfall and whilst not spending it on the playing budget would spell certain relegation it would give us the chance to make some serious ground improvements if used solely for the purpose. We'd also receive parachute payments in the next season(s)


http://www.safetyatsportsgrounds.org.uk ... nd-seating

Regarding moving the pitch, I'm not saying we do that at any point until we were to get to the FL....

I don't believe the NL is our natural level...


You should probably refer to the latest FA version.

http://www.thefa.com/-/media/thefacom-n ... ashx?la=en

I'm presuming you regard the Football League as our natural level then?


That's for the National League, not the Football League...

Given how much time the club has spent there throughout our history then yes.... but I don't believe in natural levels... your level is wherever you get to based on prudent decision making, yes budget, and also a bit of luck...


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:23 pm 
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Some people just keep going over the same old things time and time and time .. again.

If they are that knowledgeable and confident with their proposal, would it not seem more objective to get themselves to a position, whereby they might be able to put into effect their well thought out plans.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:28 pm 
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Yes it is for the National League but details the requirements for promotion to the Football League.

No mention of needing to demonstrate you can increase to 1,000 seats before you're promoted.

"To qualify for promotion to The Football League by winning the Championship and for the club to participate in the promotion play off matches, the ground must achieve a Category “A” Grading together with 500 seats under cover by 31st March in each season."

Of course we will need them by the March AFTER promotion but as I said we'd have also trousered £1m+ from the league before then which makes things a little easier (should we ever get to that point)


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:29 pm 
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Spyman wrote:
....
Ted's dead - he died just before he attended the FA Trophy Final in 2011.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11986

Here's the thread, for comedy gold.



That thread is as you say comedy gold

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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:30 pm 
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divas wrote:
Yes it is for the National League but details the requirements for promotion to the Football League.

No mention of needing to prove you can increase to 1,000 seats before you're promoted.

"To qualify for promotion to The Football League by winning the Championship and for the club to participate in the promotion play off matches, the ground must achieve a Category “A” Grading together with 500 seats under cover by 31st March in each season."


No but you'd be thrown out by the following year if you didn't...


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:31 pm 
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tezza wrote:
Some people just keep going over the same old things time and time and time .. again.

If they are that knowledgeable and confident with their proposal, would it not seem more objective to get themselves to a position, whereby they might be able to put into effect their well thought out plans.


I have.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:17 pm 
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So what's the solution?

That's a hard one to answer, but without substantial funding from the fans and or an investor, it's hard to see a solution to our ground problems.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:32 pm 
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Darlo_Pete wrote:
So what's the solution?

That's a hard one to answer, but without substantial funding from the fans and or an investor, it's hard to see a solution to our ground problems.


Arena!!!!




Is the surname of Bruce, former USA coach. :shifty:


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:41 pm 
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SwansQuaker83 wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
So what's the solution?

That's a hard one to answer, but without substantial funding from the fans and or an investor, it's hard to see a solution to our ground problems.


Arena!!!!




Is the surname of Bruce, former USA coach. :shifty:


I know other posters aren't going to agree with me, but that may well be the only answer. BM is going to always belong to the rugby club and to do all the changes to get it up to FL standard may be impossible or at best the ground will look horrendous with bits added on or going part way along a side or end.

I believe DMP are struggling financially and they may well offer us favourable terms for a groundshare with us playing on Saturdays, in the not too distant future.

But whether we stay at BM or move back to the Arena, there are some real issues and not many answers.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:43 pm 
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SwansQuaker83 wrote:
divas wrote:
Yes it is for the National League but details the requirements for promotion to the Football League.

No mention of needing to prove you can increase to 1,000 seats before you're promoted.

"To qualify for promotion to The Football League by winning the Championship and for the club to participate in the promotion play off matches, the ground must achieve a Category “A” Grading together with 500 seats under cover by 31st March in each season."


No but you'd be thrown out by the following year if you didn't...


Correct but as I've said you'd also have vastly increased revenue at that point with which to make any modifications - the more pertinent question for me isn't ground grading but how you build the off field infrastructure and generate the revenue to go full time which would be needed to even have a shot at promotion. Until the question is answered it's irrelevant.

Don't get me wrong I know what you're getting at in terms of future proofing but you have to be careful in restricting achievable short term possibilities by looking too far ahead to something that might never be needed.

Right now we need to ensure we can build a ground that can sustain National League football and I believe this is certainly within our remit at BM under our own steam.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Darlo_Pete wrote:
So what's the solution?

That's a hard one to answer, but without substantial funding from the fans and or an investor, it's hard to see a solution to our ground problems.


As far as I'm aware we don't have a current ground problem.

The ground is fit for purpose for the level we are playing at and very shortly will even enable us to gain promotion.

Thereafter we would need to increase capacity by 800 which again is very achievable in the timescales we will have with the access to additional grant funding.

Beyond that there are questions marks, however there are far more question marks as to how we get beyond that than the ground which for me is quite low down the list as you don't need it until after a promotion and substantial windfall.

It's like me worrying which colour Ferrari I'm gonna buy when I win the lottery.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:28 pm 
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Ok. For me, it's relatively easy to see how we can make the ground 4,000 with 1,000 seats, even with the pipe being there, building around it should be fine. It's getting it up to 5,000 that would be the real challenge. With the pipe, ultimately it would require the development of the clubhouse side, or rebuilding the tinshed much deeper (Which would probably mean basically having to start again. I can see how you'd get a few more rows under the current row, and they should've been there, but you certainly can't double its size easily), or rebuilding the seated area as much deeper. Neither would be popular as they'd be perceived as wasted money (perhaps rightly so).

Any development on the clubhouse side would have to be agreed with the rugby club. I would argue they will not, under any circumstances, agree to the clubhouse being knocked down, and i think it's unrealistic to expect them to (and probably verging on being slightly disrespectful). They might agree to us redeveloping the existing seats into something useful / maybe expanding it a little so it's still attached to the side of the clubhouse but going towards the corner). However, that would probably also require the relocation of the dugouts to the other side, or binning those ones entirely and building new ones as part of the seated area.

It's tough to see how we do it without having to effectively lose something we've already paid for, and that's frustrating. Especially after the seats at Heritage Park debacle.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:33 pm 
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So in theory:

Get promoted to League 2. Spend the extra million in League revenues on ground improvements. Accept relegation is a likely consequence.

Get relegated.

Spend the parachute payments on building a team that can achieve promotion to League 2 again. Ground sorted due to promotion two seasons earlier.

Easy!!!

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:
Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:35 pm 
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Don't forget our million pound cup run the same season we get promoted :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:37 pm 
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super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Don't forget our million pound cup run the same season we get promoted :thumbup:


Perhaps now Gray's gone, our luck in the cups may change, let's face it we can't get any worse.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:39 pm 
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Darlo_Pete wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
So what's the solution?

That's a hard one to answer, but without substantial funding from the fans and or an investor, it's hard to see a solution to our ground problems.


Arena!!!!




Is the surname of Bruce, former USA coach. :shifty:


I know other posters aren't going to agree with me, but that may well be the only answer. BM is going to always belong to the rugby club and to do all the changes to get it up to FL standard may be impossible or at best the ground will look horrendous with bits added on or going part way along a side or end.

I believe DMP are struggling financially and they may well offer us favourable terms for a groundshare with us playing on Saturdays, in the not too distant future.

But whether we stay at BM or move back to the Arena, there are some real issues and not many answers.


I keep hearing that about Mowden but they're flying in their division... they were top until recently, theyve dropped to 4th but it's still tight up there, so if they're struggling then I assume it's because they're throwing money at promotion? They're actually only two promotions from the Premiership.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:45 pm 
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Darlo_Pete wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
So what's the solution?

That's a hard one to answer, but without substantial funding from the fans and or an investor, it's hard to see a solution to our ground problems.


Arena!!!!




Is the surname of Bruce, former USA coach. :shifty:


I know other posters aren't going to agree with me, but that may well be the only answer. BM is going to always belong to the rugby club and to do all the changes to get it up to FL standard may be impossible or at best the ground will look horrendous with bits added on or going part way along a side or end.

I believe DMP are struggling financially and they may well offer us favourable terms for a groundshare with us playing on Saturdays, in the not too distant future.

But whether we stay at BM or move back to the Arena, there are some real issues and not many answers.


I assume you are also aware of the recent restructuring of their debt at the Arena Pete. My understanding is that as it stands they are on track to repay the £800k mortgage taken out on the Arena by March next year.

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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:55 pm 
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Allan Quatermain wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
So what's the solution?

That's a hard one to answer, but without substantial funding from the fans and or an investor, it's hard to see a solution to our ground problems.


Arena!!!!




Is the surname of Bruce, former USA coach. :shifty:


I know other posters aren't going to agree with me, but that may well be the only answer. BM is going to always belong to the rugby club and to do all the changes to get it up to FL standard may be impossible or at best the ground will look horrendous with bits added on or going part way along a side or end.

I believe DMP are struggling financially and they may well offer us favourable terms for a groundshare with us playing on Saturdays, in the not too distant future.

But whether we stay at BM or move back to the Arena, there are some real issues and not many answers.


I assume you are also aware of the recent restructuring of their debt at the Arena Pete. My understanding is that as it stands they are on track to repay the £800k mortgage taken out on the Arena by March next year.


I'm not saying that there going to go bust in the short term, but I do believe they are in a pretty bad financial position and any deal they can do with Darlo would help improve their position. I hear they get crowds of 600 to 700, you don't need to be Einstein to realise that the maths just don't work on such poor attendances.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:58 pm 
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SwansQuaker83 wrote:
tezza wrote:
Some people just keep going over the same old things time and time and time .. again.

If they are that knowledgeable and confident with their proposal, would it not seem more objective to get themselves to a position, whereby they might be able to put into effect their well thought out plans.


I have.


Sure .... and suggested the Arena ...behave man, a while back it was "I do not have the time, i am to far away"


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:01 pm 
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Darlo_Pete wrote:
Allan Quatermain wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
So what's the solution?

That's a hard one to answer, but without substantial funding from the fans and or an investor, it's hard to see a solution to our ground problems.


Arena!!!!




Is the surname of Bruce, former USA coach. :shifty:


I know other posters aren't going to agree with me, but that may well be the only answer. BM is going to always belong to the rugby club and to do all the changes to get it up to FL standard may be impossible or at best the ground will look horrendous with bits added on or going part way along a side or end.

I believe DMP are struggling financially and they may well offer us favourable terms for a groundshare with us playing on Saturdays, in the not too distant future.

But whether we stay at BM or move back to the Arena, there are some real issues and not many answers.


I assume you are also aware of the recent restructuring of their debt at the Arena Pete. My understanding is that as it stands they are on track to repay the £800k mortgage taken out on the Arena by March next year.


I'm not saying that there going to go bust in the short term, but I do believe they are in a pretty bad financial position and any deal they can do with Darlo would help improve their position. I hear they get crowds of 600 to 700, you don't need to be Einstein to realise that the maths just don't work on such poor attendances.



What utter rubbish, all based on rumour and hearsay. Not a single supportive fact.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:05 pm 
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tezza wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
tezza wrote:
Some people just keep going over the same old things time and time and time .. again.

If they are that knowledgeable and confident with their proposal, would it not seem more objective to get themselves to a position, whereby they might be able to put into effect their well thought out plans.


I have.


Sure .... and suggested the Arena ...behave man, a while back it was "I do not have the time, i am to far away"


Firstly, my arena comment was a joke, read it properly ffs!!

Secondly, I have never said I'm too far away, I don't live away, I live local so wrong person

Thirdly, I have contacted the club and a member of the DFCSG board about offering my help.

Try again....


Last edited by SwansQuaker83 on Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:06 pm 
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divas wrote:

Correct but as I've said you'd also have vastly increased revenue at that point with which to make any modifications - the more pertinent question for me isn't ground grading but how you build the off field infrastructure and generate the revenue to go full time which would be needed to even have a shot at promotion. Until the question is answered it's irrelevant.


And in a somewhat catch 22 situation, this would presumably be much easier with our own facilities :lol: Which is what I guess Johnston was alluding too in his very first interview regarding wanting our own stadium. Be interesting to know if this is a realistic aim or if it was simply wishful thinking.

Having listened back to that interview, he also mentioned a rolling 2 year business plan too. This would be interesting to see - how those at the top, with the business experience, realistically expect the club to grow.


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:10 pm 
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al_quaker wrote:

And in a somewhat catch 22 situation, this would presumably be much easier with our own facilities :lol: Which is what I guess Johnston was alluding too in his very first interview regarding wanting our own stadium. Be interesting to know if this is a realistic aim or if it was simply wishful thinking.


It was obviously wishful thinking.

What's it cost to build a reasonable 6k stadium - 5 to 10 million?

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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:18 pm 
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Quakerz wrote:
al_quaker wrote:

And in a somewhat catch 22 situation, this would presumably be much easier with our own facilities :lol: Which is what I guess Johnston was alluding too in his very first interview regarding wanting our own stadium. Be interesting to know if this is a realistic aim or if it was simply wishful thinking.


It was obviously wishful thinking.

What's it cost to build a reasonable 6k stadium - 5 to 10 million?

Presumably. Wonder what it would cost to get a FL stadium at BM in total? Obviously it would be an awful lot less, but would still be well into the 7 figures once the pipe has been moved, as was stated at the last fans forum.

If only Reynolds had just redeveloped Feethams instead :(


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:28 pm 
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Feethams didn't need redeveloping! It held 8,500 with over 3,500 seats.

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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:35 pm 
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Sorry - I meant renovate!


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 Post subject: Re: Investment
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:05 pm 
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The West Stand surely would have been defunct by now if we were still there! So more like 7,500 (allegedly it held 1,000)?

Apart from that I'm confident the rest of the ground would satisfy ground grading.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:20 pm 
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I'm sure we could've just put an equivalent sized modern seated stand there where the west stand was.

Some have rosy memories here though, the terraces were all crumbling, the toilets were a health hazard, and the turnstiles and fencing were pretty long past their sell by date, and it was pretty rusty and tattered apart from the East Stand. It would've needed work to bring up to code. Of course it would have cost a whole lot less than the cursed Arena...


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