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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:52 pm 
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Houghton couldn't get the private investment needed to complete the project due to the financial crash which also scuppered the cash going into the team


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:01 pm 
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quaker4life wrote:
DarloDave40 wrote:
Pie in the sky without DFC going back there the footfall from other sports just wont be enough without us.


:lol: :crazy:

I am 100% confident of two things.

1. We're not part of their plans.

2. Mowden have got by for the last 5 years without us and need us as much as we need them.

The Arena is in the past and is no longer any of our concern.

However I will be interested to see how this pans out, as much as I hated the Arena it did annoy me that within a year of moving in Mowden had new built new pitches over the back after we had faced red tape from DBC for a good couple of years when Houghton wanted to develop the land.

There's probably no doubt that some arses were twitching in Billy boy's inner circle at Town Hall when the Football Club left it and unfortunately they've already been far more forthcoming with Mowden than they were with us.


Could go further back for changes of heart and double standards with regards to the Arena. Car boot sales and recent announcements of major concerts...weren't these some of the original extra revenue streams proposed by GR? It does seem that while the football club was there every obstacle was laid down but as soon as Mowden Rugby Club moved in everything can be done? I don't have anything against DMPRC but it's a little frustrating that the council were not as accommodating while we were at the Arena.

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:58 pm 
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The Council were lucky Mowden moved in.

Imagine what would have happened to it if they didn't?....

Feethams, again.

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:13 am 
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Given the council have been very proactive in the development of the "sporting hub" at Blackwell... to then throw their weight behind another one in a different area, in a town that really doesn't need two, then I'd be as miffed as I am that they scuppered all our plans way back when...

I thought the council didn't have the means to get behind a project of this size... isn't that what they told Richard Upshall?


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:35 pm 
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SwansQuaker83 wrote:
Given the council have been very proactive in the development of the "sporting hub" at Blackwell... to then throw their weight behind another one in a different area, in a town that really doesn't need two, then I'd be as miffed as I am that they scuppered all our plans way back when...

I thought the council didn't have the means to get behind a project of this size... isn't that what they told Richard Upshall?


Upshall wanted retail units as part of the development. The council said this was a threat to the town centre. They then proceeded to build a retail park on North Road :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:25 pm 
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divas wrote:
Houghton couldn't get the private investment needed to complete the project due to the financial crash which also scuppered the cash going into the team


Not entirely correct. You’ll recall S&S ended up as owners of the Arena as a result of their funding. The failure to lift the covenant and secure planning scuppered the scheme.


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:28 pm 
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For all the talk of a sports village, do we really believe that a town the size of Darlo has the footfall to support such a thing. Flying.....


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:51 pm 
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Darlo-and-Back wrote:
divas wrote:
Houghton couldn't get the private investment needed to complete the project due to the financial crash which also scuppered the cash going into the team


Not entirely correct. You’ll recall S&S ended up as owners of the Arena as a result of their funding. The failure to lift the covenant and secure planning scuppered the scheme.



I recall very well. Houghton mortgaged the Arena with S&S to bring in money for the playing budget. That was nothing to do with the planned developments.


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:14 pm 
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divas wrote:
Darlo-and-Back wrote:
divas wrote:
Houghton couldn't get the private investment needed to complete the project due to the financial crash which also scuppered the cash going into the team


Not entirely correct. You’ll recall S&S ended up as owners of the Arena as a result of their funding. The failure to lift the covenant and secure planning scuppered the scheme.



I recall very well. Houghton mortgaged the Arena with S&S to bring in money for the playing budget. That was nothing to do with the planned developments.



And people still want to have an external "investor" come in and take over running the club.

Jeez, what short memories people have....


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:16 pm 
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divas wrote:
Darlo-and-Back wrote:
divas wrote:
Houghton couldn't get the private investment needed to complete the project due to the financial crash which also scuppered the cash going into the team


Not entirely correct. You’ll recall S&S ended up as owners of the Arena as a result of their funding. The failure to lift the covenant and secure planning scuppered the scheme.



I recall very well. Houghton mortgaged the Arena with S&S to bring in money for the playing budget. That was nothing to do with the planned developments.

Wonder what happened to that mortgage money


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:32 pm 
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QuakerPete wrote:
divas wrote:
Darlo-and-Back wrote:
divas wrote:
Houghton couldn't get the private investment needed to complete the project due to the financial crash which also scuppered the cash going into the team


Not entirely correct. You’ll recall S&S ended up as owners of the Arena as a result of their funding. The failure to lift the covenant and secure planning scuppered the scheme.



I recall very well. Houghton mortgaged the Arena with S&S to bring in money for the playing budget. That was nothing to do with the planned developments.

Wonder what happened to that mortgage money


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Neil Austin, Julian Joachim, Pawel Abbott etc etc


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:04 am 
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divas wrote:
QuakerPete wrote:
divas wrote:
Darlo-and-Back wrote:
divas wrote:
Houghton couldn't get the private investment needed to complete the project due to the financial crash which also scuppered the cash going into the team


Not entirely correct. You’ll recall S&S ended up as owners of the Arena as a result of their funding. The failure to lift the covenant and secure planning scuppered the scheme.



I recall very well. Houghton mortgaged the Arena with S&S to bring in money for the playing budget. That was nothing to do with the planned developments.

Wonder what happened to that mortgage money


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Neil Austin, Julian Joachim, Pawel Abbott etc etc



So yes, he could get private funding because he did... and it was the failure to have the covenants lifted that scuppered the scheme not the financial crash.


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:32 am 
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He could get private funding of a couple of million to invest in the team as he had an asset to secure it on. He couldn't get anymore as the Arena was mortgaged to the hilt hence why funding for the players was cut mid season = administration

It's a bit different to getting the £10m+ that was needed to build the proposed developments that couldn't be secured against anything


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:59 am 
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Darlo-and-Back wrote:
For all the talk of a sports village, do we really believe that a town the size of Darlo has the footfall to support such a thing. Flying.....


Depends on how it's done... what else is there in the area as well... Stockton, and places like Aycliffe, Bishop, all pretty accessible... I'd say it would have to include 3g pitches for hire by 5/6 a side leagues, and facilities for schools, there's already an athletics track at Eastbourne, so the council would have to look at moving it to one location, you could look at getting a big name chain involved, David Lloyds for example, but then aren't we part of a sporting hub at BM? The council have supported that concept. There certainly isn't enough for a town to have 3 sporting hubs.


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:00 am 
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loan_star wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
Given the council have been very proactive in the development of the "sporting hub" at Blackwell... to then throw their weight behind another one in a different area, in a town that really doesn't need two, then I'd be as miffed as I am that they scuppered all our plans way back when...

I thought the council didn't have the means to get behind a project of this size... isn't that what they told Richard Upshall?


Upshall wanted retail units as part of the development. The council said this was a threat to the town centre. They then proceeded to build a retail park on North Road :roll:


It mentions retail units at this one in the Echo article.


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:47 pm 
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divas wrote:
He could get private funding of a couple of million to invest in the team as he had an asset to secure it on. He couldn't get anymore as the Arena was mortgaged to the hilt hence why funding for the players was cut mid season = administration

It's a bit different to getting the £10m+ that was needed to build the proposed developments that couldn't be secured against anything



The mortgage on the Areana was in favour of S&S to the tune of £2m. If you believe that the £2m was borrowed to fund players then so be it. The point you miss on the property front is he didn’t need fund to build, he needed funds to secure that planning permission on the site and therefore dramatically increase the land value. That was his prize and he didn’t need £10m just a ‘smaller’ amount to pay for planning change. And if you think players aren’t cheap neither are architects, planning consultants and lawyers!


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:51 pm 
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Darlo-and-Back wrote:
divas wrote:
He could get private funding of a couple of million to invest in the team as he had an asset to secure it on. He couldn't get anymore as the Arena was mortgaged to the hilt hence why funding for the players was cut mid season = administration

It's a bit different to getting the £10m+ that was needed to build the proposed developments that couldn't be secured against anything



The mortgage on the Areana was in favour of S&S to the tune of £2m. If you believe that the £2m was borrowed to fund players then so be it. The point you miss on the property front is he didn’t need fund to build, he needed funds to secure that planning permission on the site and therefore dramatically increase the land value. That was his prize and he didn’t need £10m just a ‘smaller’ amount to pay for planning change. And if you think players aren’t cheap neither are architects, planning consultants and lawyers!


At the time it seemed virtually every proposal was, according to DBC, against the "town plan" meaning the restrictions on use made it touch and go whether any development would be viable long term. A bit like the arena in actual fact. DBC constantly put restrictions in front of the football club, whether that was parking charges or use of the facilities on anything other than matchdays. Restrictions the rugby club seem to be free from.


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:49 pm 
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loan_star wrote:
Darlo-and-Back wrote:
divas wrote:
He could get private funding of a couple of million to invest in the team as he had an asset to secure it on. He couldn't get anymore as the Arena was mortgaged to the hilt hence why funding for the players was cut mid season = administration

It's a bit different to getting the £10m+ that was needed to build the proposed developments that couldn't be secured against anything



The mortgage on the Areana was in favour of S&S to the tune of £2m. If you believe that the £2m was borrowed to fund players then so be it. The point you miss on the property front is he didn’t need fund to build, he needed funds to secure that planning permission on the site and therefore dramatically increase the land value. That was his prize and he didn’t need £10m just a ‘smaller’ amount to pay for planning change. And if you think players aren’t cheap neither are architects, planning consultants and lawyers!


At the time it seemed virtually every proposal was, according to DBC, against the "town plan" meaning the restrictions on use made it touch and go whether any development would be viable long term. A bit like the arena in actual fact. DBC constantly put restrictions in front of the football club, whether that was parking charges or use of the facilities on anything other than matchdays. Restrictions the rugby club seem to be free from.


It did seem that way at the time. In the last few months the council have been criticised for not having an up to date local plan, which has been used by a number of developers around the town as a factor in favour of housing development. (the proposals for Staindrop Road to Coniscliffe Road being an example) The local plan leading up to 2036 is in consultation now and will be published next year. With changes in government policy in favour of development and a perceived shortage of housing stock the council view on development has probably changed since we were at the Arena.

It's common for local councils to agree a section 106 with a proposed developer which could include funding for sports provision. Remains to be seen how that is used and total speculation on my part but certainly I'm sure that's something that the council would consider if the twin aim for the adjoining sites is a sports hub and residential development.

Also of note is that the proposal - if it proceeds - would be a joint venture with Mowden ultimately handing over the ownership of the Arena to the JV and DBC throwing their land in to the pot too. This would give a parcel of land roughly the same size as the Arena dedicated to sport and leisure development. I'm intrigued to see how it develops.


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:37 pm 
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loan_star wrote:
Darlo-and-Back wrote:
divas wrote:
He could get private funding of a couple of million to invest in the team as he had an asset to secure it on. He couldn't get anymore as the Arena was mortgaged to the hilt hence why funding for the players was cut mid season = administration

It's a bit different to getting the £10m+ that was needed to build the proposed developments that couldn't be secured against anything



The mortgage on the Areana was in favour of S&S to the tune of £2m. If you believe that the £2m was borrowed to fund players then so be it. The point you miss on the property front is he didn’t need fund to build, he needed funds to secure that planning permission on the site and therefore dramatically increase the land value. That was his prize and he didn’t need £10m just a ‘smaller’ amount to pay for planning change. And if you think players aren’t cheap neither are architects, planning consultants and lawyers!


At the time it seemed virtually every proposal was, according to DBC, against the "town plan" meaning the restrictions on use made it touch and go whether any development would be viable long term. A bit like the arena in actual fact. DBC constantly put restrictions in front of the football club, whether that was parking charges or use of the facilities on anything other than matchdays. Restrictions the rugby club seem to be free from.

Loan Star, you seem to be suggesting that all of the actions by the council at that time were deliberate to stifle the football club. That wasn't the case. If that was so, they simply didn't have to sell the land to GR to build the Arena - they were under no obligation to do so. The land on which the arena was not allocated for development within the Local Development Plan that existed at that time. Also at that time national planning policy guidance was against out of town development. Therefore as this was a departure from the Local Plan, Darlington BC were obliged to submit the application to the Secretary of State for the Environment for determination. The case had to be made to the Sec of State that the development of the Arena would not be detrimental to the town centre. Part of the case was based on the removal of match day parking from the town centre would encourage other visitors to the town centre. The borough council were also obliged to include planning conditions requiring a residents parking scheme and also to set a minimum parking charges within the stadium to discourage car travel - all to encourage the Secretary of State to come down in favour of the application and not order a public inquiry. Let's not forget, there were plenty that didn't want the development (remember Jan Madberk?).

Those that didn't want the development would have been looking over the Council's shoulder to ensure that all of the planning conditions were properly discharged and observed/enforced.

The world has moved on since then and maybe current national planning guidance and the passage of time has allowed the Council to be more flexible in their dealings concerning the Arena.


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:39 pm 
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Maurice_Peddelty wrote:
loan_star wrote:
Darlo-and-Back wrote:
divas wrote:
He could get private funding of a couple of million to invest in the team as he had an asset to secure it on. He couldn't get anymore as the Arena was mortgaged to the hilt hence why funding for the players was cut mid season = administration

It's a bit different to getting the £10m+ that was needed to build the proposed developments that couldn't be secured against anything



The mortgage on the Areana was in favour of S&S to the tune of £2m. If you believe that the £2m was borrowed to fund players then so be it. The point you miss on the property front is he didn’t need fund to build, he needed funds to secure that planning permission on the site and therefore dramatically increase the land value. That was his prize and he didn’t need £10m just a ‘smaller’ amount to pay for planning change. And if you think players aren’t cheap neither are architects, planning consultants and lawyers!


At the time it seemed virtually every proposal was, according to DBC, against the "town plan" meaning the restrictions on use made it touch and go whether any development would be viable long term. A bit like the arena in actual fact. DBC constantly put restrictions in front of the football club, whether that was parking charges or use of the facilities on anything other than matchdays. Restrictions the rugby club seem to be free from.

Loan Star, you seem to be suggesting that all of the actions by the council at that time were deliberate to stifle the football club. That wasn't the case. If that was so, they simply didn't have to sell the land to GR to build the Arena - they were under no obligation to do so. The land on which the arena was not allocated for development within the Local Development Plan that existed at that time. Also at that time national planning policy guidance was against out of town development. Therefore as this was a departure from the Local Plan, Darlington BC were obliged to submit the application to the Secretary of State for the Environment for determination. The case had to be made to the Sec of State that the development of the Arena would not be detrimental to the town centre. Part of the case was based on the removal of match day parking from the town centre would encourage other visitors to the town centre. The borough council were also obliged to include planning conditions requiring a residents parking scheme and also to set a minimum parking charges within the stadium to discourage car travel - all to encourage the Secretary of State to come down in favour of the application and not order a public inquiry. Let's not forget, there were plenty that didn't want the development (remember Jan Madberk?).

Those that didn't want the development would have been looking over the Council's shoulder to ensure that all of the planning conditions were properly discharged and observed/enforced.

The world has moved on since then and maybe current national planning guidance and the passage of time has allowed the Council to be more flexible in their dealings concerning the Arena.

Great post Maurice, your last sentence hopefully brings some of our fans out of the time warp they are in, and into the world as it is in 2017. :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:42 am 
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im sure someone at the council is prepared to recieve a sly brown envelope nowadays to see it go ahead


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:47 am 
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Houghton also said that the 2,500 crowds at the Arena were nowhere near enough to keep it going and that we needed 6,000 to get by at that venue... good luck with that one. Then again he was blaming everything by that point... low crowds, credit crunch, Darlington Council's inertia, too little cash from the football authorities, leaves on the tracks (all right I made that one up).


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:48 am 
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and the fact he couldnt get it up anymore


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:58 am 
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Funnily enough he didn't mention that one in the interview I saw but among his views on life were these:

"I’d bring in hanging tomorrow. I’d do what the Arabs do and chop people’s hands off. I’m tough like that, I’d give no quarter."


"I’m totally against the 35-hour week. Everyone should work a minimum of 50 hours a week, it’s the only way to get anything out of them."



Must be something about the name George.


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:52 pm 
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LoidLucan wrote:
Funnily enough he didn't mention that one in the interview I saw but among his views on life were these:

"I’d bring in hanging tomorrow. I’d do what the Arabs do and chop people’s hands off. I’m tough like that, I’d give no quarter."


"I’m totally against the 35-hour week. Everyone should work a minimum of 50 hours a week, it’s the only way to get anything out of them."



Must be something about the name George.


I'm with him on
"I’d bring in hanging tomorrow. I’d do what the Arabs do and chop people’s hands off. I’m tough like that, I’d give no quarter."

:thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Echo Arena
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:40 pm 
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Maurice_Peddelty wrote:
loan_star wrote:
Darlo-and-Back wrote:
divas wrote:
He could get private funding of a couple of million to invest in the team as he had an asset to secure it on. He couldn't get anymore as the Arena was mortgaged to the hilt hence why funding for the players was cut mid season = administration

It's a bit different to getting the £10m+ that was needed to build the proposed developments that couldn't be secured against anything



The mortgage on the Areana was in favour of S&S to the tune of £2m. If you believe that the £2m was borrowed to fund players then so be it. The point you miss on the property front is he didn’t need fund to build, he needed funds to secure that planning permission on the site and therefore dramatically increase the land value. That was his prize and he didn’t need £10m just a ‘smaller’ amount to pay for planning change. And if you think players aren’t cheap neither are architects, planning consultants and lawyers!


At the time it seemed virtually every proposal was, according to DBC, against the "town plan" meaning the restrictions on use made it touch and go whether any development would be viable long term. A bit like the arena in actual fact. DBC constantly put restrictions in front of the football club, whether that was parking charges or use of the facilities on anything other than matchdays. Restrictions the rugby club seem to be free from.

Loan Star, you seem to be suggesting that all of the actions by the council at that time were deliberate to stifle the football club. That wasn't the case. If that was so, they simply didn't have to sell the land to GR to build the Arena - they were under no obligation to do so. The land on which the arena was not allocated for development within the Local Development Plan that existed at that time. Also at that time national planning policy guidance was against out of town development. Therefore as this was a departure from the Local Plan, Darlington BC were obliged to submit the application to the Secretary of State for the Environment for determination. The case had to be made to the Sec of State that the development of the Arena would not be detrimental to the town centre. Part of the case was based on the removal of match day parking from the town centre would encourage other visitors to the town centre. The borough council were also obliged to include planning conditions requiring a residents parking scheme and also to set a minimum parking charges within the stadium to discourage car travel - all to encourage the Secretary of State to come down in favour of the application and not order a public inquiry. Let's not forget, there were plenty that didn't want the development (remember Jan Madberk?).

Those that didn't want the development would have been looking over the Council's shoulder to ensure that all of the planning conditions were properly discharged and observed/enforced.

The world has moved on since then and maybe current national planning guidance and the passage of time has allowed the Council to be more flexible in their dealings concerning the Arena.


Very well put. And remembering also that the land was sold to GR at a low price on the basis it was only used for football, hence the covenant. If it’s to be used for commercial activity the council rightly want full price for it and will levy a charge to lift the covenant.


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