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 Post subject: Re: What's next
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:47 pm 
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Is it not something like 5 metres either side of the pipe that is required? There's documents somewhere out there.

Long term, we need a terrace at the other end, and hopefully some way to develop the clubhouse side. In theory, we wouldn't need to knock down the clubhouse, but it'd be nice if the Rugby club were open to us building some seating in front of it. The sidelines are considerable, and you could build the bench into a seated stand. Certainly the area where the existing seats are could be torn out and built forwards so to have the four rows required for ground grading. The issue of course would be the dugouts being in the way. If you could build seating infront of the club house all the way along, and build the dugout in, that'd be one way to resolve the issue. Barnets ground has something similar to this built onto the side of a building, and could be a model we could follow.

Terracing the away end makes sense next though. If we built a large enough one, we could segregate it with some fencing, meaning home fans could benefit as well, and away fans could have a small part of the terracing plus the corner hard standing.


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 Post subject: Re: What's next
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:54 pm 
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lo36789 wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Well said Robbo. The rugby club would benefit massively from this sort of investment, with few to no cost to themselves.


You seem very bitter Pete. All I am bothered about is DFC getting return on investment / value for money I couldn't care less what extra benefit the rugby club get.



Agree with this. We've already invested massively in the ground, which the rugby club have also benefited from. Why all of a sudden it would be an issue at that hypothetical stage is something I don't understand.

And taking that attitude would be cutting our nose off to spite our face. The bizarre thing is Darlo_Pete doesn't seem to realise that behaving with an element of hostility towards the rugby club only fuels any negativity towards us.

And as I said, any development on that scale (i.e. knocking down the clubhouse) would have to be agreed by the rugby club. I'd presume during that particular negotiation, some sort of contribution on their part would be agreed.

But at the very least, we'd have a constructive discussion about it. Being hostile to the rugby club in general because a small number of their members are awkward with us isn't going to help things.

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 Post subject: Re: What's next
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:02 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Well said Robbo. The rugby club would benefit massively from this sort of investment, with few to no cost to themselves.


You seem very bitter Pete. All I am bothered about is DFC getting return on investment / value for money I couldn't care less what extra benefit the rugby club get.



Agree with this. We've already invested massively in the ground, which the rugby club have also benefited from. Why all of a sudden it would be an issue at that hypothetical stage is something I don't understand.

And taking that attitude would be cutting our nose off to spite our face. The bizarre thing is Darlo_Pete doesn't seem to realise that behaving with an element of hostility towards the rugby club only fuels any negativity towards us.

And as I said, any development on that scale (i.e. knocking down the clubhouse) would have to be agreed by the rugby club. I'd presume during that particular negotiation, some sort of contribution on their part would be agreed.

But at the very least, we'd have a constructive discussion about it. Being hostile to the rugby club in general because a small number of their members are awkward with us isn't going to help things.


My point was that a major investment like a new main stand and rebuilt club house would virtually mean the lodgers have virtually paid for everything whilst the owners reap all the rewards from all the new facilities at little or no cost to themselves whilst all we would get is match day use which to me is not adequate to justify such investment.


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 Post subject: Re: What's next
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:19 pm 
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I'll be honest at the point we can afford a purpose built main stand I'd be suggesting we look to move onto another pitch at the rugby club or a different site.

The best option that site would probably be an extension / addition to the front of the stand. Potentially removing / replacing the existing seating as it is.


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 Post subject: Re: What's next
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:27 pm 
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loan_star wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Well said Robbo. The rugby club would benefit massively from this sort of investment, with few to no cost to themselves.


You seem very bitter Pete. All I am bothered about is DFC getting return on investment / value for money I couldn't care less what extra benefit the rugby club get.



Agree with this. We've already invested massively in the ground, which the rugby club have also benefited from. Why all of a sudden it would be an issue at that hypothetical stage is something I don't understand.

And taking that attitude would be cutting our nose off to spite our face. The bizarre thing is Darlo_Pete doesn't seem to realise that behaving with an element of hostility towards the rugby club only fuels any negativity towards us.

And as I said, any development on that scale (i.e. knocking down the clubhouse) would have to be agreed by the rugby club. I'd presume during that particular negotiation, some sort of contribution on their part would be agreed.

But at the very least, we'd have a constructive discussion about it. Being hostile to the rugby club in general because a small number of their members are awkward with us isn't going to help things.


My point was that a major investment like a new main stand and rebuilt club house would virtually mean the lodgers have virtually paid for everything whilst the owners reap all the rewards from all the new facilities at little or no cost to themselves whilst all we would get is match day use which to me is not adequate to justify such investment.


This the rub, we are putting huge amounts of money in to a facility that at the end of the day is still going to look and feel like dodgey rental property , but do we have a plan B nope can we afford a plan B, nope. This is the rub.


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 Post subject: Re: What's next
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:13 am 
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Darlogramps wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Well said Robbo. The rugby club would benefit massively from this sort of investment, with few to no cost to themselves.


You seem very bitter Pete. All I am bothered about is DFC getting return on investment / value for money I couldn't care less what extra benefit the rugby club get.



Agree with this. We've already invested massively in the ground, which the rugby club have also benefited from. Why all of a sudden it would be an issue at that hypothetical stage is something I don't understand.

And taking that attitude would be cutting our nose off to spite our face. The bizarre thing is Darlo_Pete doesn't seem to realise that behaving with an element of hostility towards the rugby club only fuels any negativity towards us.

And as I said, any development on that scale (i.e. knocking down the clubhouse) would have to be agreed by the rugby club. I'd presume during that particular negotiation, some sort of contribution on their part would be agreed.

But at the very least, we'd have a constructive discussion about it. Being hostile to the rugby club in general because a small number of their members are awkward with us isn't going to help things.


But that is the crux of the problem, the rugby club would be broke if it wasn't for us, they will never have the funds or the inclination to help us with funding a bigger ground, just the same as the council. Any ground development will have to be funded by ourselves or with the help of an outside investor.


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 Post subject: Re: What's next
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:33 am 
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Darlo_Pete wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Well said Robbo. The rugby club would benefit massively from this sort of investment, with few to no cost to themselves.


You seem very bitter Pete. All I am bothered about is DFC getting return on investment / value for money I couldn't care less what extra benefit the rugby club get.



Agree with this. We've already invested massively in the ground, which the rugby club have also benefited from. Why all of a sudden it would be an issue at that hypothetical stage is something I don't understand.

And taking that attitude would be cutting our nose off to spite our face. The bizarre thing is Darlo_Pete doesn't seem to realise that behaving with an element of hostility towards the rugby club only fuels any negativity towards us.

And as I said, any development on that scale (i.e. knocking down the clubhouse) would have to be agreed by the rugby club. I'd presume during that particular negotiation, some sort of contribution on their part would be agreed.

But at the very least, we'd have a constructive discussion about it. Being hostile to the rugby club in general because a small number of their members are awkward with us isn't going to help things.


But that is the crux of the problem, the rugby club would be broke if it wasn't for us, they will never have the funds or the inclination to help us with funding a bigger ground, just the same as the council. Any ground development will have to be funded by ourselves or with the help of an outside investor.

And we'd be stuck in the Evostick for the foreseeable future with the Rugby Club, with no motivation to compete.

At least at Blackwell Meadows, regardless of whether we are relegated or promoted, we can still have the ambition to compete.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:
Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC


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 Post subject: Re: What's next
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:17 am 
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Darlo_Pete wrote:
But that is the crux of the problem, the rugby club would be broke if it wasn't for us, they will never have the funds or the inclination to help us with funding a bigger ground, just the same as the council. Any ground development will have to be funded by ourselves or with the help of an outside investor.


So what's your solution? To not invest in the ground in case the rugby club benefit? As Spyman says, taking that attitude just holds ourselves back so I really don't know what your point is.

All you've done here is state the obvious but you're not suggesting anything yourself.

You're also going to have to back up your suggestion "the rugby club would be broke without us."

Yes they weren't rolling in cash, but I suspect you've not seen their accounts so can't make that assertion.

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 Post subject: Re: What's next
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:55 am 
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Keep on seeing comments about how much the rugby club benefits from our investment. Can someone explain how they benefit?

I don't know how many spectators they get but they could probably fit into the amenities they had when we arrived. They have a reasonably new club house that, again, probably suited their needs before we arrived.

If we built this mythical new stand they still wouldn't benefit except they would have a slightly newer clubhouse. They wouldn't charge more rent, they wouldn't suddenly have 3k people turning up to watch their games, they wouldn't see considerably better players joining due to the great new facility.

The benefits would be seen by the supporters of DFC (us) who would have a better matchday view and, hopefully, a better environment for a beer pre- and post- match without having any upset about what TV station is on (oh how important that is).

The benefit that the rugby club gets from DFC is rent and (I assume) a % of beer and food sales. The beer and food may increase if we manage to get a bigger crowd but surely that's it unless you think some of the above points are wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: What's next
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:04 am 
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This is why I think it's a good time to take a breath and check what direction we are heading in. Is it the case that to get anywhere near a decent ground we'd have to knock down the clubhouse? I don't know. If that were the case would we ever get agreement to do it and how much would it cost anyway? Is there a way to get to Football League standards whilst working around the pipes? If so, what does that look like and are we happy with it?

The focus has understandably been on getting back to town and then getting the ground requirements for the NL but to be honest I'm a bit lost about whether we could ever get any further at BM or what that would look like.

It's a pipedream that we'll get back to the football league anyway at the moment but I do think it's time to start thinking about what our longer term vision is as I'm struggling a bit to see where we go from here.

Hoping to hear some thoughts about this on Monday evening.


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 Post subject: Re: What's next
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:07 am 
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Darlogramps wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
But that is the crux of the problem, the rugby club would be broke if it wasn't for us, they will never have the funds or the inclination to help us with funding a bigger ground, just the same as the council. Any ground development will have to be funded by ourselves or with the help of an outside investor.


So what's your solution? To not invest in the ground in case the rugby club benefit? As Spyman says, taking that attitude just holds ourselves back so I really don't know what your point is.

All you've done here is state the obvious but you're not suggesting anything yourself.

You're also going to have to back up your suggestion "the rugby club would be broke without us."

Yes they weren't rolling in cash, but I suspect you've not seen their accounts so can't make that assertion.


I don't know what the solution is or even if there is any solution. Hopefully Monday will give us some answers.


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 Post subject: Re: What's next
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:20 am 
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Darlo_Pete wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
But that is the crux of the problem, the rugby club would be broke if it wasn't for us, they will never have the funds or the inclination to help us with funding a bigger ground, just the same as the council. Any ground development will have to be funded by ourselves or with the help of an outside investor.


So what's your solution? To not invest in the ground in case the rugby club benefit? As Spyman says, taking that attitude just holds ourselves back so I really don't know what your point is.

All you've done here is state the obvious but you're not suggesting anything yourself.

You're also going to have to back up your suggestion "the rugby club would be broke without us."

Yes they weren't rolling in cash, but I suspect you've not seen their accounts so can't make that assertion.


I don't know what the solution is or even if there is any solution. Hopefully Monday will give us some answers.


Not a good look for you Pete here.

First you twist on but don't offer any ideas yourself and say it's up to everybody else.

Then you completely ignore what everyone else is saying to you.

Then you don't back up your own claims.

I know you're a troll who only posts on here to wind everybody else up but this is undermining yourself more than anything.

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 Post subject: Re: What's next
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:51 am 
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m62exile wrote:
This is why I think it's a good time to take a breath and check what direction we are heading in. Is it the case that to get anywhere near a decent ground we'd have to knock down the clubhouse? I don't know. If that were the case would we ever get agreement to do it and how much would it cost anyway? Is there a way to get to Football League standards whilst working around the pipes? If so, what does that look like and are we happy with it?

The focus has understandably been on getting back to town and then getting the ground requirements for the NL but to be honest I'm a bit lost about whether we could ever get any further at BM or what that would look like.

It's a pipedream that we'll get back to the football league anyway at the moment but I do think it's time to start thinking about what our longer term vision is as I'm struggling a bit to see where we go from here.

Hoping to hear some thoughts about this on Monday evening.


A fair post, and probably sums up my feelings.

Getting back to the FL is a long shot, I think everyone is in agreement about that. But it's not impossible. And it being a long shot doesn't mean that there isn't a need for a vastly superior ground to watch football in if we want to grow crowds, and thus our football club, anywhere near the level we (or at least, I) would want.

While we should continue to make small improvements to improve BM as much as we can, we also need to have a long term plan for the ground situation - is it possible to ultimately achieve a good football ground at BM? If it is possible (and I'll be honest, I struggle to see how it could be without knocking the clubhouse down, although I'm no architect), would it be the best investment of serious amounts of money. It would would take years of fundraising and would probably involve external money/loans, so would it be wise investing that in a rented facility we rent for a couple of hours on a Saturday? Particularly one with a relatively short rental agreement as it currently stands. If we signed a long term 'sporting-hub' agreement with the rugby club as much more equal partners than currently then that would be a different proposition.

BM was the best (only) solution to getting back to Darlington. We've achieved that now, and so like you say now is the time to take stock and plan for the future

Very much looking forwards to Monday (although I'm not sure I can make it :lol: :thumbdown: )

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 Post subject: Re: What's next
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:08 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
But that is the crux of the problem, the rugby club would be broke if it wasn't for us, they will never have the funds or the inclination to help us with funding a bigger ground, just the same as the council. Any ground development will have to be funded by ourselves or with the help of an outside investor.


So what's your solution? To not invest in the ground in case the rugby club benefit? As Spyman says, taking that attitude just holds ourselves back so I really don't know what your point is.

All you've done here is state the obvious but you're not suggesting anything yourself.

You're also going to have to back up your suggestion "the rugby club would be broke without us."

Yes they weren't rolling in cash, but I suspect you've not seen their accounts so can't make that assertion.


I don't know what the solution is or even if there is any solution. Hopefully Monday will give us some answers.


Not a good look for you Pete here.

First you twist on but don't offer any ideas yourself and say it's up to everybody else.

Then you completely ignore what everyone else is saying to you.

Then you don't back up your own claims.

I know you're a troll who only posts on here to wind everybody else up but this is undermining yourself more than anything.

Pete in making himself look stupid shocker.

_________________
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:
Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC


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 Post subject: Re: What's next
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:40 pm 
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Spyman wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
But that is the crux of the problem, the rugby club would be broke if it wasn't for us, they will never have the funds or the inclination to help us with funding a bigger ground, just the same as the council. Any ground development will have to be funded by ourselves or with the help of an outside investor.


So what's your solution? To not invest in the ground in case the rugby club benefit? As Spyman says, taking that attitude just holds ourselves back so I really don't know what your point is.

All you've done here is state the obvious but you're not suggesting anything yourself.

You're also going to have to back up your suggestion "the rugby club would be broke without us."

Yes they weren't rolling in cash, but I suspect you've not seen their accounts so can't make that assertion.


I don't know what the solution is or even if there is any solution. Hopefully Monday will give us some answers.


Not a good look for you Pete here.

First you twist on but don't offer any ideas yourself and say it's up to everybody else.

Then you completely ignore what everyone else is saying to you.

Then you don't back up your own claims.

I know you're a troll who only posts on here to wind everybody else up but this is undermining yourself more than anything.

Pete in making himself look stupid "no shock" shocker.


fixed that for you Spyman


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 Post subject: Re: What's next
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:04 pm 
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liamsears wrote:
Keep on seeing comments about how much the rugby club benefits from our investment. Can someone explain how they benefit?

I don't know how many spectators they get but they could probably fit into the amenities they had when we arrived. They have a reasonably new club house that, again, probably suited their needs before we arrived.

If we built this mythical new stand they still wouldn't benefit except they would have a slightly newer clubhouse. They wouldn't charge more rent, they wouldn't suddenly have 3k people turning up to watch their games, they wouldn't see considerably better players joining due to the great new facility.

The benefits would be seen by the supporters of DFC (us) who would have a better matchday view and, hopefully, a better environment for a beer pre- and post- match without having any upset about what TV station is on (oh how important that is).

The benefit that the rugby club gets from DFC is rent and (I assume) a % of beer and food sales. The beer and food may increase if we manage to get a bigger crowd but surely that's it unless you think some of the above points are wrong.


Think it's all a bit of a moot point - the rugby club are hardly going to turn around and say "Yeah knock our clubhouse down lads. We don't mind, honest".

There seems to be a fair bit of bitterness on both sides - was talking to a pissed up bloke on the train the other week who's into rugby, who claimed that Darlo are "killing" the rugby club, but couldn't really explain how - except to say that's what someone who knows someone who knows someone said.

It's (I would hope) probably shite, but if stuff like this is "out there" with members of the public, it's a worry - true or not - because it's damaging the relationship between the two clubs.

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 Post subject: Re: What's next
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:54 pm 
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Killing the rugby club would resolve any future issues like!

Joking aside, they're bound to be in a better financial position than they have been for... well. Ever? So it's pretty damned unlikely. I don't understand the need for constant confrontation with them, but there's a minority who seem to want to just bash everything to do with the rugby club. I wish them well, and I have no issues with them earning some money for us being there. I do agree certain things on their behalf come across as petty, which has tarnished some people's opinion, but if you carry on being petty then you're being just as bad.

Some sort of sign that acknowledges both clubs presence would probably help matters. Also, they're never going to agree to knocking down the clubhouse. Realistically though, there is considerable space either side of it on that touchline that could be developed and attached to the existing development. The dugouts would need replacing but it wouldn't be the end of the world.


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