Current Cash Flow

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super_les_mcjannet
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Current Cash Flow

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:28 pm

Not sure it was picked up on much from Monday's meeting but the idea was suggested that the club could complete a 1 year extension of the 500 club and put the say 50k raised (rough estimate from me) into the club bank accounts as cash flow.

This would as long as not dipped into stop the constant cash flow worry around this time of year when directors are having to put their own money in to keep the cash flow ticking over.

This would likely to be taken up mainly by those who extended previously so would be for season 21/22 also if those who didn't extend last time but did now would cover them for season 20/21.

Personally if we can move away from this constant cash flow problem then it would be worth pushing back the 50k we will get when 500 club runs out for another year to ensure we stop having issues. Just need the board to ensure they have strict rules around the pot not being used as extra cash and does just give us that cash situation confidence.

al_quaker
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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by al_quaker » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:27 pm

Not a bad idea. In an ideal world it would be good to get some cash in the bank in a different way, as extending the 500 club by a year would of course extend the impact on the budget by a further year. However, that would be much more preferable than relying on directors putting their own cash in, so as an option it's certainly worth exploring.

Could even be used to raise part of the figure we want to have in the bank (e.g. 500 club extension for the first 100 who apply.) if we can raise some other funds in a different way

As you say, there would need to be strict rules around using the money, but the current board fill me with confidence in that respect.

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by quakerste » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:36 pm

I'm a 500 club member who did not extend beyond the five years, but would take up the option of a further year if it arises.
Last edited by quakerste on Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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loan_star
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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by loan_star » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:56 pm

quakerste wrote:I'm a 500 club member who did not extend beyond the five years, but would take the up the option of a further year if it arises.
Me too if there were no other better options put forward

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by QuakerPete » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:59 pm

Getting a tad confused now, what would the proposed monthly DD scheme be for?


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super_les_mcjannet
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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:10 pm

QuakerPete wrote:Getting a tad confused now, what would the proposed monthly DD scheme be for?


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Don't think you are confused QuakerPete just think Johnston mentioned lots of different things/ways of moving from current position.

The direct debit scheme was more a way of raising funds to go towards building a sustainable future, pay for a club house/4G pitch something that would have a return long term.

However it wasn't mentioned if those who would sign up would work on a returns basis or just a giving to the club, I guess in fairness to Johnston he was just bashing around ideas and was looking for the reaction from us owners/fans.

Personally I can't see many putting a direct debit in for £40 a month if the money is just gone an no return, so maybe it goes in as an investment somehow maybe community shares with money back over a period to fund say a 4G pitch.

500 club extension mention was a way of giving the club a clear cash flow input asap and resolve the next few months battle and could be left in place longer term, to save these challenges year after year.

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by al_quaker » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:38 pm

We have already got a monthly direct debit scheme this season, with the Boost the Budget, which raised about £40k for the club this year(I think), with no financial return for contributors on offer.

Similarly Wimbledon have the 'We are Wimbledon Fund'.

I think a permanent direct debit scheme would work - the initial contributions could be geared more towards stabilising the finances, before moving more towards infrastructure investments and/or playing budget boosts. I can't see many going for £40 a month (although I thought that was more 'we'd need X amount of people to give £40 in order to go FT?), but people would give what they can afford - Darlo fans have been very generous over the last 5 years.

But of course this wouldn't be a quick fix for the cash flow issues.

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:51 pm

loan_star wrote:
quakerste wrote:I'm a 500 club member who did not extend beyond the five years, but would take the up the option of a further year if it arises.
Me too if there were no other better options put forward
Same here.

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by QuakerPete » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:55 pm

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
QuakerPete wrote:Getting a tad confused now, what would the proposed monthly DD scheme be for?


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Don't think you are confused QuakerPete just think Johnston mentioned lots of different things/ways of moving from current position.

The direct debit scheme was more a way of raising funds to go towards building a sustainable future, pay for a club house/4G pitch something that would have a return long term.

However it wasn't mentioned if those who would sign up would work on a returns basis or just a giving to the club, I guess in fairness to Johnston he was just bashing around ideas and was looking for the reaction from us owners/fans.

Personally I can't see many putting a direct debit in for £40 a month if the money is just gone an no return, so maybe it goes in as an investment somehow maybe community shares with money back over a period to fund say a 4G pitch.

500 club extension mention was a way of giving the club a clear cash flow input asap and resolve the next few months battle and could be left in place longer term, to save these challenges year after year.
Think you're right Super Les, though again I don't think we should get hung up on the £40 per month. It was only an example figure and could be varied by those wishing to contribute. Would certainly be my preferred method in the absence of more immediate-needs fundraising


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jjljks
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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by jjljks » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:27 pm

What about a new but 600 club? Similar to the 500 club but starting afresh from next season? Should bring in more cash, obvs
;)

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by johninskopje » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:42 pm

QUAKERMAN2 wrote:
loan_star wrote:
quakerste wrote:I'm a 500 club member who did not extend beyond the five years, but would take the up the option of a further year if it arises.
Me too if there were no other better options put forward
Same here.

Me too definitely
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Emdubya
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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by Emdubya » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:50 pm

Next season instead ofBoost the Budget why not Boost the Bank.500 of us with a D D of £20 a month equates to 10 K a month.Job done :thumbup:

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:04 pm

Emdubya wrote:Next season instead ofBoost the Budget why not Boost the Bank.500 of us with a D D of £20 a month equates to 10 K a month.Job done :thumbup:
We need something now in theory to save us hitting around 40k short of cash flow from what I remember, before ST sales come in and builds us back up around April.

Think we struggled to get 100 involved in boost the budget so that's the kind of figure you will get to support, maybe more but 500 is not realistic. Lots of people can't/don't want to support the club financially other than paying to watch, 50/50 etc. and that's not really a problem they pay to watch and that still contributes.

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:08 pm

QuakerPete wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
QuakerPete wrote:Getting a tad confused now, what would the proposed monthly DD scheme be for?


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Don't think you are confused QuakerPete just think Johnston mentioned lots of different things/ways of moving from current position.

The direct debit scheme was more a way of raising funds to go towards building a sustainable future, pay for a club house/4G pitch something that would have a return long term.

However it wasn't mentioned if those who would sign up would work on a returns basis or just a giving to the club, I guess in fairness to Johnston he was just bashing around ideas and was looking for the reaction from us owners/fans.

Personally I can't see many putting a direct debit in for £40 a month if the money is just gone an no return, so maybe it goes in as an investment somehow maybe community shares with money back over a period to fund say a 4G pitch.

500 club extension mention was a way of giving the club a clear cash flow input asap and resolve the next few months battle and could be left in place longer term, to save these challenges year after year.
Think you're right Super Les, though again I don't think we should get hung up on the £40 per month. It was only an example figure and could be varied by those wishing to contribute. Would certainly be my preferred method in the absence of more immediate-needs fundraising


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Agree the £40 figure was just used in the presentation for illustration purposes rather than something required.

We need a short term boost of around 50k to support cash flow, easy method is extension of 500 club but does kick the 500 club can a year further down the road. We could look to just raise this with a boost the budget type thing but needs to be in a short space of time and do we have people willing to put in another 50k with nothing back currently, not sure so can see the argument for 500 club extension.

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by shawry » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:19 pm

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
QuakerPete wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
QuakerPete wrote:Getting a tad confused now, what would the proposed monthly DD scheme be for?


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Don't think you are confused QuakerPete just think Johnston mentioned lots of different things/ways of moving from current position.

The direct debit scheme was more a way of raising funds to go towards building a sustainable future, pay for a club house/4G pitch something that would have a return long term.

However it wasn't mentioned if those who would sign up would work on a returns basis or just a giving to the club, I guess in fairness to Johnston he was just bashing around ideas and was looking for the reaction from us owners/fans.

Personally I can't see many putting a direct debit in for £40 a month if the money is just gone an no return, so maybe it goes in as an investment somehow maybe community shares with money back over a period to fund say a 4G pitch.

500 club extension mention was a way of giving the club a clear cash flow input asap and resolve the next few months battle and could be left in place longer term, to save these challenges year after year.
Think you're right Super Les, though again I don't think we should get hung up on the £40 per month. It was only an example figure and could be varied by those wishing to contribute. Would certainly be my preferred method in the absence of more immediate-needs fundraising


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Agree the £40 figure was just used in the presentation for illustration purposes rather than something required.

We need a short term boost of around 50k to support cash flow, easy method is extension of 500 club but does kick the 500 club can a year further down the road. We could look to just raise this with a boost the budget type thing but needs to be in a short space of time and do we have people willing to put in another 50k with nothing back currently, not sure so can see the argument for 500 club extension.
Why can't we just keep extending the 500 club? This allows the 500 club members to get a reduced price season ticket, but it means we keep getting their yearly input.

When things settle down we can then knock it on the head and let it expire

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:24 pm

shawry wrote:Why can't we just keep extending the 500 club? This allows the 500 club members to get a reduced price season ticket, but it means we keep getting their yearly input.

When things settle down we can then knock it on the head and let it expire

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No reason why we can't really, it's just kicking the can down the road but we are clearly needing a boost until a path forward as club is further decided.

I certainly think boosting once more to avoid cash flow isn't a bad idea.

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by quakerste » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:28 pm

Currently I have two seasons left on my 500 club membership I would be happy to start paying for my season ticket carrying my two years forward.

This would give me the option that if I have an issue financially I could use one of my season passes as a fall back.

This would be a win, win situation it would help the club out in the short term and myself if I ever needed it.

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by Darlo_Rob » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:53 pm

I’ve already extended the 500 club season ticket once, but I’m more than willing to buy another year.

If it was an option not sure it would raise the £50,000 as we would need over 200 people to sign up to it, but it would still probably raise a substantial amount.

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:01 pm

Darlo_Rob wrote:I’ve already extended the 500 club season ticket once, but I’m more than willing to buy another year.

If it was an option not sure it would raise the £50,000 as we would need over 200 people to sign up to it, but it would still probably raise a substantial amount.
We have approx. 325 five hundred club members according to Johnston from what I remember over 50% added a year on so we probably wouldn't be far away.

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by Darlo_Pete » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:17 pm

I'm also a 500 club member and unfortunately I'm not in a position to extend my membership for further years at the moment. I suspect that there will be some people in a similar position to myself. So if the offer was put forward for 500 members to extend, then you would only get a proportion of the 500 members taking up the offer.
I also think that it's just moving the problem on rather than solving it. Personally I'd be happier if the 500 club membership just ran it's course and monies were raised by an appeal for funds, like what's happened with boost the budget and raise the roof appeals.

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:25 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:I'm also a 500 club member and unfortunately I'm not in a position to extend my membership for further years at the moment. I suspect that there will be some people in a similar position to myself. So if the offer was put forward for 500 members to extend, then you would only get a proportion of the 500 members taking up the offer.
I also think that it's just moving the problem on rather than solving it. Personally I'd be happier if the 500 club membership just ran it's course and monies were raised by an appeal for funds, like what's happened with boost the budget and raise the roof appeals.
How quickly do you think an appeal for say 50k would be raised under the premise of cash flow for this season?

Basically we need to pay for all those years of not putting something to one side and building up a decent enough float. Not something that without an incentive will get people itching to provide the funds.

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by shawry » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:37 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:I'm also a 500 club member and unfortunately I'm not in a position to extend my membership for further years at the moment. I suspect that there will be some people in a similar position to myself. So if the offer was put forward for 500 members to extend, then you would only get a proportion of the 500 members taking up the offer.
I also think that it's just moving the problem on rather than solving it. Personally I'd be happier if the 500 club membership just ran it's course and monies were raised by an appeal for funds, like what's happened with boost the budget and raise the roof appeals.
For me though moving the problem to a time when we have to raise funds for stands or boost budgets to appease a manager means that when we get ourselves on an even keel it's easier to absorb the hit when we stop advancing the 500 club.

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by en passant » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:32 pm

It is pretty obvious to say so, but the chief problem with all of the fund raising ideas is that it tends to fall on the shoulders of relatively few people, and when there is no quid pro quo, such as the community share offer, it is pitching at an even smaller altruistic minority.
We have raised substantial sums through the very generous good graces of fans, but as DJ said on Monday, there has to be a way forward that does not depend on the endless requests for fans to dip into their pockets without any hope of return.
I do not profess to have the answer, but it does seem that if it were possible to open up the target audience for fund raising that this would help share the burden out a little more. Clearly getting money from the fans who already wish the best for the club is the most obvious place to seek these funds, but what about the wider population of Darlington? There are obviously many more people who do not attend matches than those who do, but there is no reason for them to contribute to the club when they haven't the incentive to do so. One way that seems to work for any of us is to ask for money in return for the chance of winning money, such as the DFCSG draw and the 50-50. So with that in mind I was just wondering if there was any way in which the club could not widen the offer of such draws, or something similar, to a much wider public, with all the attendant benefits of larger incomes and greater incentives created by larger prizes. I'm fairly certain that someone will be able to point out that the rules of such lotteries are restricted so as to make this impossible, but it was just a thought.

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by norwich darlo » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:59 am

Can we not offer the 50/50 tickets to Exiles say a week or so in advance of the next home game.

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by Darlo_Pete » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:26 am

Today's postponement won't help matters, as DJ said that we desperately needed this game to go ahead.

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by SFG » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:36 am

I can see with today's postponement the club could have more cash flow problems.

Seems sensible to get 500 club members to help out. Perhaps offer a rolling extension to the deal at £25 per month?

I appreciate that it would take some organisational effort but once set up it could guarantee a steady income?

Just a thought.

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:40 am

Darlo_Pete wrote:Today's postponement won't help matters, as DJ said that we desperately needed this game to go ahead.
Just wonder if a 3pm kick off would have given this game a far better chance of going ahead with a 10-30 inspection, always a doubt with an 8-30 inspection.Typically raining at the moment with temperatures to rise, what's the betting the pitch will be playable in a couple of hours.

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:52 am

QUAKERMAN2 wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:Today's postponement won't help matters, as DJ said that we desperately needed this game to go ahead.
Just wonder if a 3pm kick off would have given this game a far better chance of going ahead with a 10-30 inspection, always a doubt with an 8-30 inspection.Typically raining at the moment with temperatures to rise, what's the betting the pitch will be playable in a couple of hours.

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exect
Exactly my point...Strange kick off time just keep it traditional 3pm..FFS

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by loan_star » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:58 am

If the pitch is frozen any rain will end up standing on the surface until the ground begins to give so a later inspection could throw up another reason to call it off

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Re: Current Cash Flow

Post by Maurice_Peddelty » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:24 am

loan_star wrote:If the pitch is frozen any rain will end up standing on the surface until the ground begins to give so a later inspection could throw up another reason to call it off
Or worse still, if the ground is frozen any falling rain can freeze creating a sheet of ice - a road engineer's worst enemy at this time of year.

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