Re: Gainsborough v Darlington Match Thread
Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:50 am
We may be relying on the new 16 year old lad to drag us out of the mire here!
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https://www.darlofc.co.uk:443/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35082
Although we let in daft unnecessary goals the league table suggests that our defence isn't that bad, it's the scoring of goals that is more of a worry. Hopefully this might change with the ins and outs we've had recently.QUAKERMAN2 wrote:Meant to start with "how do we begin to stop leaking goals".
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I know Turnbull is always in everyone's first 11, but for quite a while now he hasn't been worth his place. I know we probably don't have anyone better, but some of Turnbull's performances have been dreadful. Passing gone to pot and struggling for pace. This seems to be typical of what has happened to our better players.quakerste wrote:Yesterday has now gone we now move onto Tuesday against Harrogate, with the injuries we have I don't know how we will line up. Presuming the players we lost yesterday are still out I would line up with;
-----------------Talbot
----Marrs--- Heaton----Brown----Scott
---Mills-----Turnbull--- Wheatley -Thompson
--------------- Syers------------------
-----------------Styche------------
Subs Gillies, Saunders, Caton, Bancroft.
Other than I don't know what other resources we have.
Funnily enough that could be a blueprint of how Gray played in his time here. There is a lot to be said at this level for playing for territory - the opposition can’t score whilst you’re in their half. It was rarely pretty to watch but for the most part it negated players at this level passing the ball in areas where mistakes are made which more often than not result in a goal. Ok the defence hasn’t been fantastic for a few years but there’s a lot to be said about only playing football in the right areas.theoriginalfatcat wrote:Although we let in daft unnecessary goals the league table suggests that our defence isn't that bad, it's the scoring of goals that is more of a worry. Hopefully this might change with the ins and outs we've had recently.QUAKERMAN2 wrote:Meant to start with "how do we begin to stop leaking goals".
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But on reading through this thread I'm wondering if Wright is making things too complicated for himself? And this got me thinking about Sam Allardyce and his methods, seeing how he's quickly worked wonders at Everton and all that.
Here is his survival blueprint - (taken from a Sky Sports Web page)
"CLEAN SHEETS
DON'T LOSE POSSESSION IN OWN HALF
PLAY THE FIRST PASS FORWARD
WIN KNOCK-DOWNS AND TRANSITIONS
SET PIECES
EXPLOIT THE OPPOSITION'S WEAKNESSES
QUALITY IN THE FINAL THIRD"
In the article they go through these 7 mantras one by one however it's all so obvious that it's not worth copying it out.
Allardyce must coach these basic facts into his players over and over and over again.............. and it works.
Here's just one that caught my eye - 'Don't lose possession in your own half'. We do this a lot with silly mistakes and slackness. Allardyce drums into his players the importance of not losing the ball in their own half. If under pressure, they are instructed to take a safety-first approach.
I noticed that too. 'Play the first pass forward" = 'Have it", but Allardyce's achievements at Everton are impressive.divas wrote:Funnily enough that could be a blueprint of how Gray played in his time here. There is a lot to be said at this level for playing for territory - the opposition can’t score whilst you’re in their half. It was rarely pretty to watch but for the most part it negated players at this level passing the ball in areas where mistakes are made which more often than not result in a goal. Ok the defence hasn’t been fantastic for a few years but there’s a lot to be said about only playing football in the right areas.theoriginalfatcat wrote:Although we let in daft unnecessary goals the league table suggests that our defence isn't that bad, it's the scoring of goals that is more of a worry. Hopefully this might change with the ins and outs we've had recently.QUAKERMAN2 wrote:Meant to start with "how do we begin to stop leaking goals".
Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
But on reading through this thread I'm wondering if Wright is making things too complicated for himself? And this got me thinking about Sam Allardyce and his methods, seeing how he's quickly worked wonders at Everton and all that.
Here is his survival blueprint - (taken from a Sky Sports Web page)
"CLEAN SHEETS
DON'T LOSE POSSESSION IN OWN HALF
PLAY THE FIRST PASS FORWARD
WIN KNOCK-DOWNS AND TRANSITIONS
SET PIECES
EXPLOIT THE OPPOSITION'S WEAKNESSES
QUALITY IN THE FINAL THIRD"
In the article they go through these 7 mantras one by one however it's all so obvious that it's not worth copying it out.
Allardyce must coach these basic facts into his players over and over and over again.............. and it works.
Here's just one that caught my eye - 'Don't lose possession in your own half'. We do this a lot with silly mistakes and slackness. Allardyce drums into his players the importance of not losing the ball in their own half. If under pressure, they are instructed to take a safety-first approach.
Is that not Hoof it?theoriginalfatcat wrote:I noticed that too. 'Play the first pass forward" = 'Have it", but Allardyce's achievements at Everton are impressive.divas wrote:Funnily enough that could be a blueprint of how Gray played in his time here. There is a lot to be said at this level for playing for territory - the opposition can’t score whilst you’re in their half. It was rarely pretty to watch but for the most part it negated players at this level passing the ball in areas where mistakes are made which more often than not result in a goal. Ok the defence hasn’t been fantastic for a few years but there’s a lot to be said about only playing football in the right areas.theoriginalfatcat wrote:Although we let in daft unnecessary goals the league table suggests that our defence isn't that bad, it's the scoring of goals that is more of a worry. Hopefully this might change with the ins and outs we've had recently.QUAKERMAN2 wrote:Meant to start with "how do we begin to stop leaking goals".
Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
But on reading through this thread I'm wondering if Wright is making things too complicated for himself? And this got me thinking about Sam Allardyce and his methods, seeing how he's quickly worked wonders at Everton and all that.
Here is his survival blueprint - (taken from a Sky Sports Web page)
"CLEAN SHEETS
DON'T LOSE POSSESSION IN OWN HALF
PLAY THE FIRST PASS FORWARD
WIN KNOCK-DOWNS AND TRANSITIONS
SET PIECES
EXPLOIT THE OPPOSITION'S WEAKNESSES
QUALITY IN THE FINAL THIRD"
In the article they go through these 7 mantras one by one however it's all so obvious that it's not worth copying it out.
Allardyce must coach these basic facts into his players over and over and over again.............. and it works.
Here's just one that caught my eye - 'Don't lose possession in your own half'. We do this a lot with silly mistakes and slackness. Allardyce drums into his players the importance of not losing the ball in their own half. If under pressure, they are instructed to take a safety-first approach.
Admittedly I’ve not seen as many games under TW as others but from those that I have seen I’ve struggled to see a certain style / way of playing. MG had a definite style and game plan and the players he brought into the club were brought to fit into this. Because of this when you’re going to radically change the style it’s likely you’ll need different players to a certain extent and he’s been able to make a few changes in that regard.Vodka_Vic wrote:Divas, is this the problem then? TW said it would take time to change the style of play. Are we playing less territory ?
Not necessarily. It just means don’t piss about and get caught in possession which has happened a lot recentlyjjljks wrote:Is that not Hoof it?theoriginalfatcat wrote:I noticed that too. 'Play the first pass forward" = 'Have it", but Allardyce's achievements at Everton are impressive.divas wrote:Funnily enough that could be a blueprint of how Gray played in his time here. There is a lot to be said at this level for playing for territory - the opposition can’t score whilst you’re in their half. It was rarely pretty to watch but for the most part it negated players at this level passing the ball in areas where mistakes are made which more often than not result in a goal. Ok the defence hasn’t been fantastic for a few years but there’s a lot to be said about only playing football in the right areas.theoriginalfatcat wrote:Although we let in daft unnecessary goals the league table suggests that our defence isn't that bad, it's the scoring of goals that is more of a worry. Hopefully this might change with the ins and outs we've had recently.QUAKERMAN2 wrote:Meant to start with "how do we begin to stop leaking goals".
Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
But on reading through this thread I'm wondering if Wright is making things too complicated for himself? And this got me thinking about Sam Allardyce and his methods, seeing how he's quickly worked wonders at Everton and all that.
Here is his survival blueprint - (taken from a Sky Sports Web page)
"CLEAN SHEETS
DON'T LOSE POSSESSION IN OWN HALF
PLAY THE FIRST PASS FORWARD
WIN KNOCK-DOWNS AND TRANSITIONS
SET PIECES
EXPLOIT THE OPPOSITION'S WEAKNESSES
QUALITY IN THE FINAL THIRD"
In the article they go through these 7 mantras one by one however it's all so obvious that it's not worth copying it out.
Allardyce must coach these basic facts into his players over and over and over again.............. and it works.
Here's just one that caught my eye - 'Don't lose possession in your own half'. We do this a lot with silly mistakes and slackness. Allardyce drums into his players the importance of not losing the ball in their own half. If under pressure, they are instructed to take a safety-first approach.
Got to stay positive Adam, I think on Saturday Tommy probably thought we would easily get the 3 points hence the very attacking lineup but probably underestimated Gainsborough.I am convinced if he goes 433 and keeps the back 4 defending and not bombing forward at every opportunity we will be OK, we have the squad to finish mid table.Vodka_Vic wrote:Drove past Matlock Town's ground today. Said to the boy 'Son, we'll be playing there next season'. Not feeling too positive right now.
Up to a point, fat cat. Even including his Everton career, Allardyce’s Prem Leg win percentage is only 34% (only the 13th best of current PL managers), according to http://www.1sports1.com/premier-league- ... ercentage/. His career win percentage in all managerial posts is 39.5%.theoriginalfatcat wrote:Allardyce must coach these basic facts into his players over and over and over again.............. and it works.
That's it single out one player as Darlo fans always do...Yarblockos wrote:I know Turnbull is always in everyone's first 11, but for quite a while now he hasn't been worth his place. I know we probably don't have anyone better, but some of Turnbull's performances have been dreadful. Passing gone to pot and struggling for pace. This seems to be typical of what has happened to our better players.quakerste wrote:Yesterday has now gone we now move onto Tuesday against Harrogate, with the injuries we have I don't know how we will line up. Presuming the players we lost yesterday are still out I would line up with;
-----------------Talbot
----Marrs--- Heaton----Brown----Scott
---Mills-----Turnbull--- Wheatley -Thompson
--------------- Syers------------------
-----------------Styche------------
Subs Gillies, Saunders, Caton, Bancroft.
Other than I don't know what other resources we have.
To judge someone on win percentage alone is reductionist and flawed. A win ratio of 1 in 3 for a side in a relegation battle is a good ratio (works out at about 13 wins in the Premier League, which is 39 points, which usually will keep a side up).biccynana wrote:Up to a point, fat cat. Even including his Everton career, Allardyce’s Prem Leg win percentage is only 34% (only the 13th best of current PL managers), according to http://www.1sports1.com/premier-league- ... ercentage/. His career win percentage in all managerial posts is 39.5%.theoriginalfatcat wrote:Allardyce must coach these basic facts into his players over and over and over again.............. and it works.
Thing is though, he may be overhauling the playing style - but does he know what to?Spyman wrote:Compare us to Crystal Palace, who last season had the ultimate in play-to-your-strengths simple football under Allardyce.
Over the summer they traded that for De Boer who tried to get a limited squad to completely alter playing style over night and asked them to play an unfamiliar formation and base their game on possession football. Great of the players are good enough or you have enough players familiar with that style, but he tried to change it over the course of a pre-season.
They then revert to a pragmatic manager in Hodgson who builds his team's on organisation and doing the simple things right and they immediately start getting results.
For all the criticism about Gray and the style of football he played, it's a style the probably only needed tweaking and we probably only have players who could cope with a tweaking of this style. To try and overhaul the entire style and system of the team is too much and it seems it's showing.
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And who do you suggest we bring in?.Pretty sure Galbraith and Portas were injured and had to come off so you cannot blame Tommy for that.Changing managers now would be crazy.Unstuck wrote:To me, having three weeks without a match, time that should have been used drilling the players and making them compact and organised, only to come out with an experimental formation, making a double substitution after 20 mins and shipping 3 goals to one of the worst teams in the division, reeks of incompetence from the manager.
I don't want us to be one of those clubs that sacks managers like they're going out of fashion, but I think if we don't get rid of Tommy soon, he could take us down.
Unstuck wrote:To me, having three weeks without a match, time that should have been used drilling the players and making them compact and organised, only to come out with an experimental formation, making a double substitution after 20 mins and shipping 3 goals to one of the worst teams in the division, reeks of incompetence from the manager.
I don't want us to be one of those clubs that sacks managers like they're going out of fashion, but I think if we don't get rid of Tommy soon, he could take us down.
Think I'm probably with you on that, bit as we've seen before, constant chopping and changing of management often makes things worse not better.Darlogramps wrote:Thing is though, he may be overhauling the playing style - but does he know what to?Spyman wrote:Compare us to Crystal Palace, who last season had the ultimate in play-to-your-strengths simple football under Allardyce.
Over the summer they traded that for De Boer who tried to get a limited squad to completely alter playing style over night and asked them to play an unfamiliar formation and base their game on possession football. Great of the players are good enough or you have enough players familiar with that style, but he tried to change it over the course of a pre-season.
They then revert to a pragmatic manager in Hodgson who builds his team's on organisation and doing the simple things right and they immediately start getting results.
For all the criticism about Gray and the style of football he played, it's a style the probably only needed tweaking and we probably only have players who could cope with a tweaking of this style. To try and overhaul the entire style and system of the team is too much and it seems it's showing.
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It just seems to me a really scattergun approach, that he's hoping it will click. He's had nearly three months in charge and I have no idea what his philosophy is, or what he's trying to achieve with the squad. Does he even know? And if so, does he know how to achieve that? I've seen nothing to suggest he does.
If we've no contingency for going down, then we must do everything we can to stay up. Quite literally, we can't afford to go down.
On that basis, and on his abysmal previous record as a manager, I have no confidence in Wright turning this around. Let's face it, if he wasn't an ex-Darlo player, we wouldn't have gone near him for the job in the first place.
Turnbull and Brown did a far better job in their brief spell in charge than Wright has done since.