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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:24 pm 
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theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
H1987 wrote:
Agree with all of that above. Right now it has almost been like he's been throwing **** at the wall until something sticks. That's not good enough.


I think this pretty much sums up Wright's first three months in charge. The fact he has no idea of his strongest team or even style of play is not good enough.

Salford is his 10th game in charge.

Wright's current record is W1 D1 L7.

To compare, that's exactly the same record as Colin Todd from his opening nine games. Staunton had 2 wins and 7 defeats. And that was with a terrible team in a stronger league. Theoretically this team should be far more competitive in its respective division than the 09/10 embarrassment.


Tell you what Gramps, let's keep on comparing.... Craig Stod wrote in the Echo on Saturday that Gray only got one win in his last 11 games! So let's add him on to the list of shame.


Fuck me, that's a comment of contemptuous stupidity.

You can't just airbrush our the previous 5 years of MG's reign. Gray won three promotions, including two league titles, plus a top five finish last season. Wright has done nothing but take us backwards.

Don't let your contempt for Gray allow you to rewrite history.

Did Gray leave things in a bad way? Yes. But to keep blaming him for everything is moronic. Wright has made things worse by not having a clear strategy or coherent ideas about what he wants to achieve. It's a scattergun "Hope something sticks" approach that is failing and will take us into a catastrophic relegation.

Wright has had 3 and a half months and still has no idea about his strongest line-up, formation or playing style. He's been given licence to sign new players but only Styche and Heaton (who Gray would've signed anyway) have had any impact.

Wright has taken us backwards and has no idea how to stop the decline. Time to stop making excuses for him.

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:33 pm 
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theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
H1987 wrote:
Agree with all of that above. Right now it has almost been like he's been throwing **** at the wall until something sticks. That's not good enough.


I think this pretty much sums up Wright's first three months in charge. The fact he has no idea of his strongest team or even style of play is not good enough.

Salford is his 10th game in charge.

Wright's current record is W1 D1 L7.

To compare, that's exactly the same record as Colin Todd from his opening nine games. Staunton had 2 wins and 7 defeats. And that was with a terrible team in a stronger league. Theoretically this team should be far more competitive in its respective division than the 09/10 embarrassment.


Tell you what Gramps, let's keep on comparing.... Craig Stod wrote in the Echo on Saturday that Gray only got one win in his last 11 games! So let's add him on to the list of shame.

Yet he was the manager who built that particular team, and had Beck/Bartlett and Ferguson at his disposal. This isn't having a pop at Gray (don't get me started) I just make this point to illustrate that T.W has inherited a big mess, a mess not of his own making, and one which seems to be taking a bit of sorting out.

I believe he will get things right, eventually.


Eventually when and where is the question there though? I hope like all that he can turn things around enough to keep us in this division and be a starting point for next season but the way things are going its likely we drop before moving forwards again.

Btw I believe that Todd's record was worse 09/10 season I think it was 0-2-9 as our first win was at home to Shrewsbury under Staunton? :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:09 pm 
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real_darlo_85 wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
H1987 wrote:
Agree with all of that above. Right now it has almost been like he's been throwing **** at the wall until something sticks. That's not good enough.


I think this pretty much sums up Wright's first three months in charge. The fact he has no idea of his strongest team or even style of play is not good enough.

Salford is his 10th game in charge.

Wright's current record is W1 D1 L7.

To compare, that's exactly the same record as Colin Todd from his opening nine games. Staunton had 2 wins and 7 defeats. And that was with a terrible team in a stronger league. Theoretically this team should be far more competitive in its respective division than the 09/10 embarrassment.


Tell you what Gramps, let's keep on comparing.... Craig Stod wrote in the Echo on Saturday that Gray only got one win in his last 11 games! So let's add him on to the list of shame.

Yet he was the manager who built that particular team, and had Beck/Bartlett and Ferguson at his disposal. This isn't having a pop at Gray (don't get me started) I just make this point to illustrate that T.W has inherited a big mess, a mess not of his own making, and one which seems to be taking a bit of sorting out.

I believe he will get things right, eventually.


Eventually when and where is the question there though? I hope like all that he can turn things around enough to keep us in this division and be a starting point for next season but the way things are going its likely we drop before moving forwards again.

Btw I believe that Todd's record was worse 09/10 season I think it was 0-2-9 as our first win was at home to Shrewsbury under Staunton? [emoji106]
I'm including all competitions - we beat Lincoln 1-0 in the JPT. The prolific Lee Thorpe got our goal that day.

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
H1987 wrote:
Agree with all of that above. Right now it has almost been like he's been throwing **** at the wall until something sticks. That's not good enough.


I think this pretty much sums up Wright's first three months in charge. The fact he has no idea of his strongest team or even style of play is not good enough.

Salford is his 10th game in charge.

Wright's current record is W1 D1 L7.

To compare, that's exactly the same record as Colin Todd from his opening nine games. Staunton had 2 wins and 7 defeats. And that was with a terrible team in a stronger league. Theoretically this team should be far more competitive in its respective division than the 09/10 embarrassment.


Tell you what Gramps, let's keep on comparing.... Craig Stod wrote in the Echo on Saturday that Gray only got one win in his last 11 games! So let's add him on to the list of shame.


Fuck me, that's a comment of contemptuous stupidity.

You can't just airbrush our the previous 5 years of MG's reign. Gray won three promotions, including two league titles, plus a top five finish last season. Wright has done nothing but take us backwards.

Don't let your contempt for Gray allow you to rewrite history.

Did Gray leave things in a bad way? Yes. But to keep blaming him for everything is moronic. Wright has made things worse by not having a clear strategy or coherent ideas about what he wants to achieve. It's a scattergun "Hope something sticks" approach that is failing and will take us into a catastrophic relegation.

Wright has had 3 and a half months and still has no idea about his strongest line-up, formation or playing style. He's been given licence to sign new players but only Styche and Heaton (who Gray would've signed anyway) have had any impact.

Wright has taken us backwards and has no idea how to stop the decline. Time to stop making excuses for him.


I'm not rewriting history. I'm quite aware of what Gray previously achieved - but we are discussing the now.

The point I was making is that Gray, in about as many games leading up to the managerial change as Wright has had since - had a very similar abysmal record. This suggests our problems are deep rooted, and will take time to sort - anyway
out of curiosity, are you of the opinion that we should change manager again?

Because I don't think so, however I do still feel he needs more help, as my original posts states.

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:11 pm 
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I'm with theoriginalfatcat on this one Darlogramps.

Yes their hasn't exactly been progress under TW, but given the change in playing personnel that can be forgiven to an extent.

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:15 pm 
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theoriginalfatcat wrote:

I'm not rewriting history. I'm quite aware of what Gray previously achieved - but we are discussing the now.

The point I was making is that Gray, in about as many games leading up to the managerial change as Wright has had since - had a very similar abysmal record. This suggests our problems are deep rooted, and will take time to sort - anyway
out of curiosity, are you of the opinion that we should change manager again?


I wouldn't have appointed him in the first place. His record is mediocre at best and he wouldn't have got near the job had he not been an ex-player. Nuneaton fans were delighted he left, which tells you everything.

If he resigned today I would be relieved because I think he'll get us relegated. He demonstrably has no plan and very little idea how to turn things around.

Financially I don't think we can afford to sack him, but he was a poor appointment in my view and nothing in the three and a half months since has made me consider changing my mind.

I don't think we have deep-rooted problems- that's been exaggerated by the anti-Gray section of our support. I think we had a bad run of form, exacerbated by Gray's head being turned by York - who'd been speaking to him for weeks beforehand.

Before Wright took over it was largely the same group of players who finished 5th last year. Where's the deep-rooted problem there? How can anything possibly have become so deep-rooted from April to September?

And why were they putting up more fight when Brown and Turnbull were in temporary charge? There's no deep-rooted problem at all. It's a solid group of players who aren't being given a coherent message about tactics or playing style by a mediocre manager.

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:26 pm 
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BUSHEAD wrote:
I'm with theoriginalfatcat on this one Darlogramps.

Yes their hasn't exactly been progress under TW, but given the change in playing personnel that can be forgiven to an extent.
Fine, but you're sleepwalking towards certain relegation if you're trying to excuse Wright's ineptitude and lack of progress.

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:36 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:

I don't think we have deep-rooted problems- that's been exaggerated by the anti-Gray section of our support. I think we had a bad run of form, exacerbated by Gray's head being turned by York - who'd been speaking to him for weeks beforehand.


Similarly, it could be argued we've had a bad run of form, exacerbated by a pretty horrible run of fixtures.

Some of the performances we turned in towards the end of Gray's tenure were terrible (South Shields springs to mind, but there are other examples), some of the performances since Wright has taken over have been terrible. Some of the same issues we had under Gray are still there under Wright - gifting goals away, getting hit on the break.

My opinion is that all this has to be balanced with the run of fixtures we've had since Wright took over. Have we been favourites in any of them? I'm not sure we would have been - Gainsborough were in good form when we met them. Doesn't excuse some of Wrights selections/tactics/some of the performances etc. but I think he deserves a chance to be judged over the coming weeks when things ease up slightly (in terms of expected opposition strength at least).

A more positive outlook on the last few games could show we've justifiably beaten Harrogate, performed pretty well for 45 mins at Harrogate before succumbing to a far better team than us (which happens at all levels and there is no shame in), and pretty much matching York for most of the match, other than a few mins of madness started by players being incapable of clearing the ball.

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
Before Wright took over it was largely the same group of players who finished 5th last year. Where's the deep-rooted problem there? How can anything possibly have become so deep-rooted from April to September?



The problem is - before Wright took over it was largely the same group of players who cocked up in Gray's final 11 games last year. Add to this players coming and going and a tough run of fixtures makes it all very hard.

I see your point by the way, he probably has slipped up a few times and made mistakes - but he's stepped into the dark, no backroom staff or anyone else remained from before to advise him.

This is why, at the risk of endlessly repeating myself, I believe A.W and T.W need extra help.

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:56 pm 
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Our defence was clearly not good enough last season, everyone could see that. It needed a complete overhaul in the summer. Instead it got 1 new player ( Collins ) and three big money, 2 year contracts handed out to players are not NLN standard and should have been thanked for their efforts and allowed to move on. We are now stuck with these players, not just for this season but next as well because clubs that want them can't afford them.


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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:58 pm 
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al_quaker wrote:
A more positive outlook on the last few games could show we've justifiably beaten Harrogate, performed pretty well for 45 mins at Harrogate before succumbing to a far better team than us (which happens at all levels and there is no shame in), and pretty much matching York for most of the match, other than a few mins of madness started by players being incapable of clearing the ball.


At what point do we stop with this self-delusion of "we were very close to decent teams"? It's irrelevant, excuse-finding nonsense. It's 2 wins in 20 odd matches.

There's a reason we're making the same mistakes week in, week out. Deluding ourselves that everything is fine because we weren't overwhelmed by a play-off chasing York team is self-defeating. At the key moment we lost our heads and they kept theirs.

How can you say Harrogate are far better than us when five days earlier we stuffed them? They're not far better than us at all.

This squad is capable of so much more than a relegation battle. It's proven that through winning at Salford, digging in to beat an promotion-challenging Bradford PA and the Harrogate victory.

We've got a capable squad that is being mismanaged by someone who is massively out his depth.

Point the finger at the players for making mistakes, but if they keep happening week in, week out, the coaching team are responsible for that.

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:59 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:

I'm not rewriting history. I'm quite aware of what Gray previously achieved - but we are discussing the now.

The point I was making is that Gray, in about as many games leading up to the managerial change as Wright has had since - had a very similar abysmal record. This suggests our problems are deep rooted, and will take time to sort - anyway
out of curiosity, are you of the opinion that we should change manager again?


I wouldn't have appointed him in the first place. His record is mediocre at best and he wouldn't have got near the job had he not been an ex-player. Nuneaton fans were delighted he left, which tells you everything.

If he resigned today I would be relieved because I think he'll get us relegated. He demonstrably has no plan and very little idea how to turn things around.

Financially I don't think we can afford to sack him, but he was a poor appointment in my view and nothing in the three and a half months since has made me consider changing my mind.

I don't think we have deep-rooted problems- that's been exaggerated by the anti-Gray section of our support. I think we had a bad run of form, exacerbated by Gray's head being turned by York - who'd been speaking to him for weeks beforehand.

Before Wright took over it was largely the same group of players who finished 5th last year. Where's the deep-rooted problem there? How can anything possibly have become so deep-rooted from April to September?

And why were they putting up more fight when Brown and Turnbull were in temporary charge? There's no deep-rooted problem at all. It's a solid group of players who aren't being given a coherent message about tactics or playing style by a mediocre manager.


I don't want to turn on TW yet, but i'm beginning to fear the worst, and you're right, we couldn't afford to sack him anyway. I think a lot of the problems you're highlighting are spot on.

He needs to adopt a style, and instil that into the players asap. It really should strike a qualified manager that the problem is that the midfield is offering the defence no protection right now (I mean i think the defence in itself is a problem, but it's being exacerbated by a midfield that can't protect them)


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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:08 pm 
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theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Before Wright took over it was largely the same group of players who finished 5th last year. Where's the deep-rooted problem there? How can anything possibly have become so deep-rooted from April to September?



The problem is - before Wright took over it was largely the same group of players who cocked up in Gray's final 11 games last year. Add to this players coming and going and a tough run of fixtures makes it all very hard.

I see your point by the way, he probably has slipped up a few times and made mistakes - but he's stepped into the dark, no backroom staff or anyone else remained from before to advise him.

This is why, at the risk of endlessly repeating myself, I believe A.W and T.W need extra help.
If Wright and White need help, that is a demonstration they shouldn't have been appointed. You're conceding they're not up to it.

That's a failure of the process which led to their appointments.

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:18 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
al_quaker wrote:
A more positive outlook on the last few games could show we've justifiably beaten Harrogate, performed pretty well for 45 mins at Harrogate before succumbing to a far better team than us (which happens at all levels and there is no shame in), and pretty much matching York for most of the match, other than a few mins of madness started by players being incapable of clearing the ball.


At what point do we stop with this self-delusion of "we were very close to decent teams"? It's irrelevant, excuse-finding nonsense. It's 2 wins in 20 odd matches.

There's a reason we're making the same mistakes week in, week out. Deluding ourselves that everything is fine because we weren't overwhelmed by a play-off chasing York team is self-defeating. At the key moment we lost our heads and they kept theirs.

How can you say Harrogate are far better than us when five days earlier we stuffed them? They're not far better than us at all.

This squad is capable of so much more than a relegation battle. It's proven that through winning at Salford, digging in to beat an promotion-challenging Bradford PA and the Harrogate victory.

We've got a capable squad that is being mismanaged by someone who is massively out his depth.

Point the finger at the players for making mistakes, but if they keep happening week in, week out, the coaching team are responsible for that.

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I'm not deluded - I think we're in a relegation battle. And that's partly due to Gray, and partly due to Wright. We've not been good enough under either of them this season. I just happen to think that Wright deserves more of a chance to turn things around, and I'm optimistic that we can. Whether we will or not is a different question.

Harrogate are far better than us - look at the league table :lol: And as they should be with the money they're spending. In a one off game we happened to play better than them, but they are a better side than us, and that showed in the game on NYD.

You're entitled to your opinion on Wright - at this point I happen to disagree. I think we're in a relegation battle primarily because we underperformed in the games following York away. We had some pretty winnable games in that period, and won hardly any of them. Doesn't excuse the recent form of course, but if we'd picked up more points against the likes of NFU, Nuneaton, Southport, Curzon, Leamington and Telford, as we should have (and as we could have against Gainsborough too of course) then we'd obviously be in a much less stressful position now, and the not wholly unexpected losses to the likes of York, Harrogate, Blyth, and Brackley wouldn't have had quite the impact they have.

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:36 pm 
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al_quaker wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
al_quaker wrote:
A more positive outlook on the last few games could show we've justifiably beaten Harrogate, performed pretty well for 45 mins at Harrogate before succumbing to a far better team than us (which happens at all levels and there is no shame in), and pretty much matching York for most of the match, other than a few mins of madness started by players being incapable of clearing the ball.


At what point do we stop with this self-delusion of "we were very close to decent teams"? It's irrelevant, excuse-finding nonsense. It's 2 wins in 20 odd matches.

There's a reason we're making the same mistakes week in, week out. Deluding ourselves that everything is fine because we weren't overwhelmed by a play-off chasing York team is self-defeating. At the key moment we lost our heads and they kept theirs.

How can you say Harrogate are far better than us when five days earlier we stuffed them? They're not far better than us at all.

This squad is capable of so much more than a relegation battle. It's proven that through winning at Salford, digging in to beat an promotion-challenging Bradford PA and the Harrogate victory.

We've got a capable squad that is being mismanaged by someone who is massively out his depth.

Point the finger at the players for making mistakes, but if they keep happening week in, week out, the coaching team are responsible for that.

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I'm not deluded - I think we're in a relegation battle. And that's partly due to Gray, and partly due to Wright. We've not been good enough under either of them this season. I just happen to think that Wright deserves more of a chance to turn things around, and I'm optimistic that we can. Whether we will or not is a different question.

Harrogate are far better than us - look at the league table [emoji38] And as they should be with the money they're spending. In a one off game we happened to play better than them, but they are a better side than us, and that showed in the game on NYD.



Hang on - for 135 minutes we matched or were better than Harrogate. You said so yourself. So how are they far better than us? It's disappointing you're talking down the one good result of TW's reign because it doesn't fit your narrative.

You mention their spending - it's widely accepted our budget should see us at least be competitive at this level. We can't even do that regularly. If you equate budget to success, Wright is massively underperforming.

I think there is capability in the squad to be performing at a better level. I do not believe Wright has the ability to bring out that performance regularly.

How long do we give Wright to turn it around? If we're still tanking in terms of form in late February/early March, do we keep him on?

And what has Wright done to suggest he can turn it around?

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:47 pm 
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Sorry gramps, but I think it's way too soon to jump ships and get rid of TW. Yes it would be a disaster if we get relegated, but I believe with more favourable fixtures ahead of us, the management duo can turn things around. They've made some good signings Talbot, Heaton and Styche and the team has shown signs of improving as we witnessed against Harrogate. Let's get behind Wright, White and the team and help them turn things around.


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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:49 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:

Hang on - for 135 minutes we matched or were better than Harrogate. You said so yourself. So how are they far better than us? It's disappointing you're talking down the one good result of TW's reign because it doesn't fit your narrative.

You mention their spending - it's widely accepted our budget should see us at least be competitive at this level. We can't even do that regularly. If you equate budget to success, Wright is massively underperforming.

I think there is capability in the squad to be performing at a better level. I do not believe Wright has the ability to bring out that performance regularly.

How long do we give Wright to turn it around? If we're still tanking in terms of form in late February/early March, do we keep him on?

And what has Wright done to suggest he can turn it around?

My narrative :lol: My 'narrative' is that Wright has had a tough hand dealt and that must be borne in mind when assessing his reign so far. That doesn't mean I think he's done perfectly - plenty of questions have been raised, but I'm not willing to write him off just yet because we've lost a lot of games I expected us to lose anyway (Gainsborough away and Harrogate home aside, the results haven't particularly surprised me).

Look at the league table - Harrogate are far better than us. That difference in class showed in the match on NYD. A one off result doesn't show that one team is better than another - that's the same logic the Northern League fans used in an attempt to prove that the NL was better than the Evostik.

Similarly the odd good/mostly competitive performance from us doesn't mean much until we start doing that regularly and start picking up points.

You're correct - Wright is underperforming, as are the vast majority of players. As was Gray earlier this season, alongside the majority of players. But, in my opinion, it's that period following York away that is the a bigger reason for why we are down near the bottom of the table, as the games Gray underperformed in were eminently more winnable than our recent run of fixtures, Gainsborough aside.

As to how long Wright stays - as I can't see us affording to sack him, I think it's a moot point. But if we don't pick up a decent number of points in the 3 games following Salford, then my opinion will start to change.

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Last edited by al_quaker on Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:05 pm 
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al_quaker wrote:
.....But, in my opinion, it's that period following York away that is the a bigger reason for why we are down near the bottom of the table, as the games Gray underperformed in were eminently more winnable than our recent run of fixtures, Gainsborough aside.
.....



Its not a matter of who is better ( or worse) between Gray & Wright - that is a pointless debate and even if you could give a definitive answer it doesn't help Darlington

Also, it matters not who anyone thinks are winnable games or not. 3 points is still 3 points whether it is obtained from Salford, or North Ferriby or anyone else.

What matters is picking up enough points between now and the end of the season to retain the place in this Division.

I don't think Darlogramps has called for TW to be sacked. He has been honest enough to admit he wouldn't have chosen him and also asked the question as to how long you give him if results do not improve.

It matters not who signed the players or what has happened in the past. The only thing that matters is how many points the club can gain between now and end of season.

Blaming MG is a pointless exercise. Even if everyone agreed that MG did everything wrong, it wont help get vital points between now and the end of the season

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:13 pm 
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What's interesting from the people who support Wright is that no one is offering anything when asked "What's he done to suggest he can turn things around?"

The only vague reply is "We've got easier" games coming up. To blame the fixture list for our problems - as al_quaker is doing, is weak and looking for excuses. And look at Gainsborough - an "easier" game which we bombed in.

Wright to me is not good enough and I don't think he has the capability to turn things around, or that he even has a plan for doing so. We've had three months of hit and hope from him - it's not good enough.

Nor is it enough to say "I expected to lose to such and such, so it's all fine anyway."
In 2/3s of his games, Wright has conceded three goals. In only one of those games, I'd say we performed well - Harrogate at home. He's a mediocre manager who's been woeful up 'til now.

I don't support Wright. I can't support a manager who I wouldn't have appointed in the first place and don't believe can turn things around. Of course I want the team to do well, but I don't believe Wright can do it.

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Last edited by Darlogramps on Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:20 pm 
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I'm not trying to get into a 'who's better' debate (for that matter, Wright will never match Grays achievements on the field, even if he does seem to be a much nicer bloke). I just think that MG is more to blame for the mess this situation than Wright. This isn't influenced by some hatred of Gray or anything - I just think he cocked up this season with summer recruitment, and we didn't pick up many points when we had an easier run of fixtures earlier this season. That's on Gray (who I think will go on to do a decent job at York and I thank him for the success he brought to the club), and I think it's important when considering whether Wright is up to the job.

Wright hasn't picked up enough points since he's been here. That's patently obvious. But I think that has to be taken in the context of the hand he's been dealt in terms of the squad situation and a horrid run of fixtures. Things could and should have been better, but I'm willing to give him more time and not write Wright off as 'massively out of his depth' just yet.

But that may well change if things don't pick up on the pitch

Darlogramps wrote:
What's interesting from the people who support Wright is that no one is offering anything when asked "What's he done to suggest he can turn things around?"

The only vague reply is "We've got easier" games coming up. To blame the fixture list for our problem- as al_quaker is doing, is weak and looking for excuses. And look at Gainsborough - an "easier" game which we bombed in.

Wright to me is not good enough and I don't think he has the capability to turn things around, or that he even has a plan for doing so. We've had three months of hit and hope from him - it's not good enough.


I happen to think it's relevant that we've had predominantly tough fixtures since
Wright came in. It's not an excuse, and I've stated that Wright hasn't been perfect. I've stated Gainsborugh wasn't good enough and a repeat of that performance in the upcoming games against Alfreton and Leamington would be unacceptable (maybe in another thread).

As to what's he done to suggest it can be turned around? We've had decent patches in games, he's brought Styche in and getting goals out of him, and he's getting the best out of Thompson who can still be a difference maker. Some causes for optimism, but we need more, much more, and we need improvement across the board - from the management and the players. I've said this. And if we don't see those improvements, especially as we will start to play teams more on our level in the coming weeks, then I'll start to change my mind.

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:24 pm 
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TW is starting to doubt himself anyway I think. It showed in the post Gainsborough interview where he asked to be given more time and said ' I still think I can turn this round', and also post York. The early optimism of statements like 'These players can almost manage themselves' (I'm paraphrasing), talk of the play-offs and dismissal of relegation talk whilst talking of what a quality squad he has has evaporated. The record of 1-1-7 must be getting to him. Whatever the fixtures, those are pretty damning statistics. The problem is, these so-called expected defeats, other teams near the bottom have picked up points against the same teams. This Saturday is a real barometer. Not just a win, but a convincing performance.
I must admit I was sceptical when he was appointed, but this was offset somewhat by Alan White's appointment. How much does he influence things?


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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:25 pm 
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al_quaker wrote:
As to what's he done to suggest it can be turned around? We've had decent patches in games,


Seriously? That's one of your suggestions? Says it all as to how hopeless Wright has been thus far. North Ferriby have had decent patches in games. Steve Staunton even managed to get decent patches in games.

I also disagree on Thompson. I think that's largely down to the player than the manager. After all, I don't think we can expect Thommo to be most effective when Wright deploys him as a wing back.

Styche and Heaton are the only two successes of Wright's tenure so far, and they'll be off if we get relegated.

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:34 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
al_quaker wrote:
As to what's he done to suggest it can be turned around? We've had decent patches in games,


Seriously? That's one of your suggestions? Says it all as to how hopeless Wright has been thus far. North Ferriby have had decent patches in games. Steve Staunton even managed to get decent patches in games.

I also disagree on Thompson. I think that's largely down to the player than the manager. After all, I don't think we can expect Thommo to be most effective when Wright deploys him as a wing back.

Styche and Heaton are the only two successes of Wright's tenure so far, and they'll be off if we get relegated.

You're entitled to your opinion - if things don't pick up soon I too will convert to the opinion that Wright isn't up to the job. But I'm personally willing to give him more time before writing him off because of reasons I've mentioned.

The 'patches' comment - I meant I've personally seen enough in recent games to suggest that things may click soon. On the whole we were decent against York. But of course things actually do need to click, and be converted into consistent 90 minute performances which will lead to points. And it needs to happen soon.

But if you've already written Wright off as a dud already, that's fine. But I'm sure we both hope that you're wrong and that he's not a dud and he turns it around soon :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:07 pm 
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Jesus wept. Some of the shite talked on here is unbelievable.

I think it's quite clear you are not a fan of Wright, Darlogramps and even go so far to say you want the team to do well, but not Wright?!

Hmm. I mean he's taken a cut in budget (maybe this hurts the fans more? I suppose most wanted us to be the very thing that killed us the first time (bankrolled)), had injuries, suspensions and 3 key players leaving. Now before all that happened we've been absolutely shite since Telford at home (the 19th August, btw). To suggest Gray then stopped giving a s*** (and it somehow transferred to the players - who knew nothing) hence our form, is ludicrous.

How many points would you honestly expect from these after what happened: Blyth (a), Brackley (h), Kiddy (a), Tamworth (h), Gainsborough (a), Harrogate (h), Harrogate (a), York (h).

We had a man sent off wrongly at Gainsborough, we relied on 4 goals in 50 games Cartman for some of those as a lone man, we played Harvey upfront on his own Vs Tamworth, had several injuries/suspensions to key players and again, a reduced squad and budget.

The idea you can have 10 games under those circumstances and 1) develop a settled team and 2) somehow beat your predecessor who had all the money he wanted is ridiculous.

Again, you didn't want him as a manager so you are ready to get rid, which would be madness at this stage of the season. We are where we are, Whitey needs to earn his corn and get the defence sorted and Wright needs to stick to his guns with regards a formation and team. Alfreton is a must win (somebody said performance, but fuck that, we are not in the business of good performances at this point). I am positive we will stay up. We've signed a striker I am actually enjoying watch instead of aiming for his head all the time/watching him fall over and miss sitters. Given time this could come good.

I'm glad the board have a little more patience to be honest.


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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:22 pm 
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TDS wrote:
Jesus wept. Some of the shite talked on here is unbelievable.

I think it's quite clear you are not a fan of Wright, Darlogramps and even go so far to say you want the team to do well, but not Wright?!

Hmm. I mean he's taken a cut in budget (maybe this hurts the fans more? I suppose most wanted us to be the very thing that killed us the first time (bankrolled)), had injuries, suspensions and 3 key players leaving. Now before all that happened we've been absolutely shite since Telford at home (the 19th August, btw). To suggest Gray then stopped giving a s*** (and it somehow transferred to the players - who knew nothing) hence our form, is ludicrous.

How many points would you honestly expect from these after what happened: Blyth (a), Brackley (h), Kiddy (a), Tamworth (h), Gainsborough (a), Harrogate (h), Harrogate (a), York (h).

We had a man sent off wrongly at Gainsborough, we relied on 4 goals in 50 games Cartman for some of those as a lone man, we played Harvey upfront on his own Vs Tamworth, had several injuries/suspensions to key players and again, a reduced squad and budget.

The idea you can have 10 games under those circumstances and 1) develop a settled team and 2) somehow beat your predecessor who had all the money he wanted is ridiculous.

Again, you didn't want him as a manager so you are ready to get rid, which would be madness at this stage of the season. We are where we are, Whitey needs to earn his corn and get the defence sorted and Wright needs to stick to his guns with regards a formation and team. Alfreton is a must win (somebody said performance, but fuck that, we are not in the business of good performances at this point). I am positive we will stay up. We've signed a striker I am actually enjoying watch instead of aiming for his head all the time/watching him fall over and miss sitters. Given time this could come good.

I'm glad the board have a little more patience to be honest.

Good post, totally agree.Darlogramps, just think you should back off a little, we are all totally frustrated at our results but does it really help with your persistant criticisms of TW, at the moment we need this like a hole in the head, we have all been critical but I feel you are OTT.

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:54 pm 
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QUAKERMAN2 wrote:
Good post, totally agree.Darlogramps, just think you should back off a little, we are all totally frustrated at our results but does it really help with your persistant criticisms of TW, at the moment we need this like a hole in the head, we have all been critical but I feel you are OTT.

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Nope - none of my criticisms are unfair. If Tommy Wright wasn't so woeful, I'd be a lot quieter.

And the idea that my postings on here are having an impact on the team is ludicrous and laughable.

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:07 pm 
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TeDiouS - it's always amazing how the only "shite" opinions are the ones that are different to yours. Almost as if you struggle to accept people not thinking the same way as you.

TeDiouS wrote:

I think it's quite clear you are not a fan of Wright, Darlogramps and even go so far to say you want the team to do well, but not Wright?!


Read my post properly bozo. Where did I say I don't want Wright to do well? I said I can't support him, which is true. How can I support someone I didn't want, don't have confidence in, and think will get us relegated? I can support the team yes, but I'm not buying into this "Let's get behind Wright" nonsense. Not when I think he's a terrible manager.

TeDiouS wrote:

How many points would you honestly expect from these after what happened: Blyth (a), Brackley (h), Kiddy (a), Tamworth (h), Gainsborough (a), Harrogate (h), Harrogate (a), York (h).


I expected a lot better than a record of 1-1-7. I expected a lot better than conceding three goals in six of the games he's been in charge. I expected a lot better than having no coherent system, style of play, or regular starting XI after three and a half months.

Quote:
We had a man sent off wrongly at Gainsborough, we relied on 4 goals in 50 games Cartman for some of those as a lone man, we played Harvey upfront on his own Vs Tamworth, had several injuries/suspensions to key players and again, a reduced squad and budget.


Earlier in the thread, I referred to finding excuses for everything, this is exactly it. You're looking for excuses. At what point will you stop trying to make excuses for our crap results and actually look at the problems that are underlying them all. It's not all Tommy Wright's fault, but I think he's a getting a free pass for a lot of it because "he's a nice guy."

Quote:
Alfreton is a must win (somebody said performance, but fuck that, we are not in the business of good performances at this point). I am positive we will stay up. We've signed a striker I am actually enjoying watch instead of aiming for his head all the time/watching him fall over and miss sitters. Given time this could come good.
I'm glad the board have a little more patience to be honest.


Again, I ask you the same questions - what has Wright done in his managerial career so far to suggest he's capable of keeping us up?

And if our wretched form continues, how long do we keep him? Yes we might not be able to afford to sack him, but if he continues to fail, can we afford to keep him?

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:23 pm 
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We all need them to start winning soon. There's no defending the record at the moment so I won't try. It felt to me like the club was rotten from the end of last season until Gray went but clearly fortunes on the pitch haven't changed since TW joined.

From a distance it looks now like there was maybe a bit too much confidence at first and maybe a belief we were better than we actually seem to be. Going forward, we need to start grinding out some clean sheets, setting up not to lose, and playing with a doggedness and discipline that we've not had lately. If that means 3 or 4 0-0s in the next half dozen games then so be it, at least that might be the mentality that's needed.

I hope that the guys turn it around.


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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:13 pm 
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Grinding out some clean sheets and setting us up not to lose don't seem to be in the boss' locker. The line-up against Gainsborough, where we just fell apart from kick-off, was just baffling with four players who are wingers on the pitch and Thompson at full-back when we had a decent enough full-back on the bench. To be honest, it just looked like bad management and game planning.

Anyone who witnessed the complete battering by Brackley (regardless of their merits as a side) must have been alarmed. There didn't appear to be any semblance that we would be set up to be solid, close them down and keep it tight. The second half collapse at Blyth was shocking as was the appalling second half at Harrogate. And on Saturday, can someone give me any kind of rational explanation of why Mills (who did nothing) remained on the pitch for the entire game when there were options to change things and we weren't getting anywhere other than long-range shots or free-kicks in the second half.

Then there is also the recurrent problem of being caught on the break when we have an attack/corner/throw-in... how many more times will we concede like this? And that is just basic stuff which could be remedied.

I could go on but suffice to say I don't think TW is showing signs that he can put out a good, solid, competitive side on a consistent basis. Like everyone I hope he can get this right but I don't see the signs of progress that we'll need to avoid the drop.


Last edited by LoidLucan on Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tommy and Alan ...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:51 pm 
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TDS wrote:
Jesus wept. Some of the shite talked on here is unbelievable.

I think it's quite clear you are not a fan of Wright, Darlogramps and even go so far to say you want the team to do well, but not Wright?!

Hmm. I mean he's taken a cut in budget (maybe this hurts the fans more? I suppose most wanted us to be the very thing that killed us the first time (bankrolled)), had injuries, suspensions and 3 key players leaving. Now before all that happened we've been absolutely shite since Telford at home (the 19th August, btw). To suggest Gray then stopped giving a s*** (and it somehow transferred to the players - who knew nothing) hence our form, is ludicrous.

How many points would you honestly expect from these after what happened: Blyth (a), Brackley (h), Kiddy (a), Tamworth (h), Gainsborough (a), Harrogate (h), Harrogate (a), York (h).

We had a man sent off wrongly at Gainsborough, we relied on 4 goals in 50 games Cartman for some of those as a lone man, we played Harvey upfront on his own Vs Tamworth, had several injuries/suspensions to key players and again, a reduced squad and budget.

The idea you can have 10 games under those circumstances and 1) develop a settled team and 2) somehow beat your predecessor who had all the money he wanted is ridiculous.

Again, you didn't want him as a manager so you are ready to get rid, which would be madness at this stage of the season. We are where we are, Whitey needs to earn his corn and get the defence sorted and Wright needs to stick to his guns with regards a formation and team. Alfreton is a must win (somebody said performance, but fuck that, we are not in the business of good performances at this point). I am positive we will stay up. We've signed a striker I am actually enjoying watch instead of aiming for his head all the time/watching him fall over and miss sitters. Given time this could come good.

I'm glad the board have a little more patience to be honest.


Agree with some of that as well. It's not clear cut. For me, it isn't just the results (and look, that run of games is horrendous, and Gray needs to take some of the blame for awful results in games we should have had more out of) but it's how we set up as well. The head scratching changes, and the lack of a real plan. It has to be setting alarm bells ringing when it's hard to tell what formation we're playing.

We have to get behind him anyway, but he sharpish needs to stop the rot, and grind out some results. I honestly don't believe we have a team that should be struggling the way we are, even on paper, and with some of the flaws of the squad, we should be mid table at least. Salford is a bit of a free hit really, but that doesn't mean putting out a team of wingers to try and outscore them, because that's a stupid idea. I worry he thinks scoring goals will get us out of this mess, but we're leaking so many at the back it could sink us.


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