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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:03 pm 
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tezza wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
tezza wrote:
No personal attack ... just a considered observation on your behaviour and desire to appear superior.


:lol: :lol:

You call me names and then claim it's not a personal attack. You could have questioned me on Brown and Turnbull and left it at that.

To make a personal attack on someone and expect them not to respond is weird behaviour. Your desperation to have a go at me personally is only making you look foolish.


Is it?

Your u turn on Brown & Turnbull suggests you do not require any assistance to appear so.

Narcissism is more a condition than a name ... but have it your way


U-turn :lol: :lol: :lol:

It seems to be beyond your tiny mind that I made a post three months ago, when things were very different for the club.

Imagine that, circumstances changing and adapting your views based on that. Shocking behaviour.

And that's before we get to banktopp's obvious mistake with regards taking things out of context.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:11 pm 
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I wouldn't rule out the possibility that TW may quit, maybe even if we are beaten on Saturday. He's an honourable, honest, decent bloke who clearly likes this club and its fans. And I think he would make the difficult decision if he thought it was the right thing to do for all parties and he felt he couldn't turn this around.

Personally I don't think he can. He's taken a side within reach of the play-offs and turned them into one of the relegation favourites with an eye-wateringly bad run of results that rank among the worst starts of any Darlington managers. The TW/AW pairing just hasn't worked.

And I don't think his past record offers much comfort and optimism. In the summer he was given the chance to sign his own players at Nuneaton and he overhauled the squad. By the time we decided to appoint him, Nuneaton had become relegation strugglers and in their 14 league games had won just 4 with 3 draws and 7 defeats. When you combine that with his disastrous run here, his record this season reads: Played 23, Won 5, Drawn 4 and Lost 14.

Delve a little further back to his relegation season at Corby in National North 2015/16 and you'll see they were bottom of the league with 32 points and were 15 points away from safety. They lost 24 of their 42 matches and had a goal difference of -46. He was allowed to revamp the relegated squad but they were second bottom of the Evo Stik Prem when he was sacked in the October, 2016, having lost the last four on the bounce.

This is legitimate stuff to take into account when assessing whether you think his experience and past record shows he's got what it takes for this kind of battle. Forgive me if I don't share some people's faith in TW's ability to turn this around.

Combine that with the huge swings in tactics, personnel and line-ups from game to game that have often left the players looking lost and I think you've got all the ingredients for a damaging relegation.

There's no easy solution to what you would do if he walks or the club is forced to act as the hole gets deeper. Can't see how we could go through another full selection procedure at this stage and much of the damage has already been done. It's not ideal and we may well go down anyway but I think the only practical way forward would be to try our best to get Brown and Turnbull to resume their role until the end of the season. And they did, after all, manage to gain as many points in their 3 games as TW managed in the next 9. They also both said they loved their time at the helm. And at least that way you haven't got a new man coming in, not knowing any of the players and starting from scratch. One thing's for sure, if TW can't get the results on Saturday and the next few games, it's a situation that will have to be faced one way or another.

Or maybe some believe that even if we are relegated TW should be given the chance to revamp the squad for an assault on the glue league? Please tell me I'm wrong.


Last edited by LoidLucan on Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
tezza wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
tezza wrote:
No personal attack ... just a considered observation on your behaviour and desire to appear superior.


:lol: :lol:

You call me names and then claim it's not a personal attack. You could have questioned me on Brown and Turnbull and left it at that.

To make a personal attack on someone and expect them not to respond is weird behaviour. Your desperation to have a go at me personally is only making you look foolish.


Is it?

Your u turn on Brown & Turnbull suggests you do not require any assistance to appear so.

Narcissism is more a condition than a name ... but have it your way


U-turn :lol: :lol: :lol:

It seems to be beyond your tiny mind that I made a post three months ago, when things were very different for the club.

Imagine that, circumstances changing and adapting your views based on that. Shocking behaviour.

And that's before we get to banktopp's obvious mistake with regards taking things out of context.


Underlined


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:22 pm 
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tezza wrote:
Underlined


:lol: :lol: :lol:

No response to my points. Just another personal dig.

If your criteria for making personal attacks on me is that I like to get the last word, you're being a tad hypocritical here.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:23 pm 
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Just a tad


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:25 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:

My ideal choice would be Chris Hardy. But would he be likely to leave Whitby for a club in a relegation battle - probably not. And would we pay out the money anyway? Probably not.


Would Chris Hardy leave a club in a relegation battle for another club in a relegation battle? Have you checked the Evostik table recently? They have 29 points from 29 matches and got panned 5-0 last time out with "King Kev" Burgess in defence.

I've totally gone off Hardy TBH, and he wasn't exactly begging for this job anyway.

I'd have another go at getting McGurk in, or give White 4 or 5 games in temporary charge.

One thing is for sure, with 1-1-8 in his 10 Darlo games - Wright is not the man for the job.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:28 pm 
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Quakerz wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:

My ideal choice would be Chris Hardy. But would he be likely to leave Whitby for a club in a relegation battle - probably not. And would we pay out the money anyway? Probably not.


Would Chris Hardy leave a club in a relegation battle for another club in a relegation battle? Have you checked the Evostik table recently? They have 29 points from 29 matches and got panned 5-0 last time out with "King Kev" Burgess in defence.

I've totally gone off Hardy TBH, and he wasn't exactly begging for this job anyway.

I'd have another go at getting McGurk in, or give White 4 or 5 games in temporary charge.

One thing is for sure, with 1-1-8 in his 10 Darlo games - Wright is not the man for the job.


I see your point on Hardy - although how much is that down to Whitby's resources? When you look at the job he's done overall in the three years he's been there, I think he's done very well.

McGurk isn't a bad shout albeit unproven. But with relegation looking more and more likely, would he want to risk his own reputation? It's a bit of a hospital pass of a job right now.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:30 pm 
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AW seems to spend most of his time shouting at the linesman... don't know how that helps matters, actually probably just makes it worse. One thing I have noticed recently is that our players seem to be frequently bellowing at each other and back at the bench when the orders are dished out.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:42 pm 
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LoidLucan wrote:
AW seems to spend most of his time shouting at the linesman... don't know how that helps matters, actually probably just makes it worse. One thing I have noticed recently is that our players seem to be frequently bellowing at each other and back at the bench when the orders are dished out.


Agreed last night he was having a right go at the linesman. In the end the linesman gave him a final warning to shut up.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:47 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
Quakerz wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:

My ideal choice would be Chris Hardy. But would he be likely to leave Whitby for a club in a relegation battle - probably not. And would we pay out the money anyway? Probably not.


Would Chris Hardy leave a club in a relegation battle for another club in a relegation battle? Have you checked the Evostik table recently? They have 29 points from 29 matches and got panned 5-0 last time out with "King Kev" Burgess in defence.

I've totally gone off Hardy TBH, and he wasn't exactly begging for this job anyway.

I'd have another go at getting McGurk in, or give White 4 or 5 games in temporary charge.

One thing is for sure, with 1-1-8 in his 10 Darlo games - Wright is not the man for the job.


I see your point on Hardy - although how much is that down to Whitby's resources? When you look at the job he's done overall in the three years he's been there, I think he's done very well.

McGurk isn't a bad shout albeit unproven. But with relegation looking more and more likely, would he want to risk his own reputation? It's a bit of a hospital pass of a job right now.


In some ways the job might be more attractive to a new manager right now.

Three months ago, we would have told managers who applied that we were hopeful of a top 7 finish, but at the same time that we would need to reduce the budget - and that we still needed to raise the finance to get the ground up to play off standard.

You can see why some didn't fancy it at the time because we had a decidedly mid table look about us, but too high of an expectation from the club and no guarantees of being able to take part in the play offs should we reach them.

Now though, the ground will be play off ready so that worry is out of the way (not that it's now relevant)

The budget has already been cut so a new man will know what he has to work with on a one in one out basis, so that worry is out of the way.

And the overly high expectation has evaporated, so that worry is out of the way.

A new man would come in to a club in a relegation battle but with a squad easily good enough to get out of it with the right direction. He can come in and save the day, and with a budget which is enviable to most bottom half clubs, it should be bloody straightforward to anyone with half a clue.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:58 pm 
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s*** club

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:07 pm 
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Quakerz wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Quakerz wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:

My ideal choice would be Chris Hardy. But would he be likely to leave Whitby for a club in a relegation battle - probably not. And would we pay out the money anyway? Probably not.


Would Chris Hardy leave a club in a relegation battle for another club in a relegation battle? Have you checked the Evostik table recently? They have 29 points from 29 matches and got panned 5-0 last time out with "King Kev" Burgess in defence.

I've totally gone off Hardy TBH, and he wasn't exactly begging for this job anyway.

I'd have another go at getting McGurk in, or give White 4 or 5 games in temporary charge.

One thing is for sure, with 1-1-8 in his 10 Darlo games - Wright is not the man for the job.


I see your point on Hardy - although how much is that down to Whitby's resources? When you look at the job he's done overall in the three years he's been there, I think he's done very well.

McGurk isn't a bad shout albeit unproven. But with relegation looking more and more likely, would he want to risk his own reputation? It's a bit of a hospital pass of a job right now.


In some ways the job might be more attractive to a new manager right now.

Three months ago, we would have told managers who applied that we were hopeful of a top 7 finish, but at the same time that we would need to reduce the budget - and that we still needed to raise the finance to get the ground up to play off standard.

You can see why some didn't fancy it at the time because we had a decidedly mid table look about us, but too high of an expectation from the club and no guarantees of being able to take part in the play offs should we reach them.

Now though, the ground will be play off ready so that worry is out of the way (not that it's now relevant)

The budget has already been cut so a new man will know what he has to work with on a one in one out basis, so that worry is out of the way.

And the overly high expectation has evaporated, so that worry is out of the way.

A new man would come in to a club in a relegation battle but with a squad easily good enough to get out of it with the right direction. He can come in and save the day, and with a budget which is enviable to most bottom half clubs, it should be bloody straightforward to anyone with half a clue.


Think you're grasping at straws there Paul. If and when TW leaves the club, our position will put potential managers off. Our league position and lack of money means whoever took the job on, would be on a hiding to nothing. They'd have to make do with what we have and that clearly has been struggling at the wrong end of the table. I'm sure that we have more chance of staying up with TW in charge, than if he left. Have faith.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:13 pm 
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I think he probably has a few games good will, against perceived 'weaker' opposition. If we come up empty, then I think it has to be considered that he's not the right man.

Support him for now, but he's had a few months, and the signs are really not good right now. Also; the biggest concern for me was watching his post game interview. He looked a beaten man, and worryingly bereft of ideas. Here's an idea Tommy, choose one system and work with it. For the love of god, stop changing game after game. It's doing us no good at all.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:27 pm 
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What was interesting at the final whistle was that there was a quite acceptance, no large scale booing or outward hostility.

Which suggests to me the majority see it for now as H1987 suggests in his opening paragraph.

It a cliché but when is it the right time to change a manager, usually starts with the loss of the changing room. From the players I have seen and exchanged views with they are still a unit thankfully.

A while back people were accusing the club of instability, not having a long term cohesive plan. DJ presented that a few weeks back and it is widely accepted as sensible. The current management team were and still are central planks in that strategy.

I personally want TW/AW to succeed and by that I mean retain our current status. They are not fools they know the clocks ticking.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:35 pm 
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tezza wrote:
What was interesting at the final whistle was that there was a quite acceptance, no large scale booing or outward hostility.

Which suggests to me the majority see it for now as H1987 suggests in his opening paragraph.

It a cliché but when is it the right time to change a manager, usually starts with the loss of the changing room. From the players I have seen and exchanged views with they are still a unit thankfully.

A while back people were accusing the club of instability, not having a long term cohesive plan. DJ presented that a few weeks back and it is widely accepted as sensible. The current management team were and still are central planks in that strategy.

I personally want TW/AW to succeed and by that I mean retain our current status. They are not fools they know the clocks ticking.


A genuine question Tezza (we've had our bickering- that's been and gone).

What makes you sure he can turn this around? I've made the point and LoidLucan has done the same, that nothing in TW's record as a manager suggests he can turn it around. It's phenomenally poor.

And given where we were we he took over, can we not expect a little more than mere survival? Why should finishing 19th be seen as a major triumph?

I get the point about stability, but if a manager is blatantly failing, surely keeping him and watching us go down only adds to the instability.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:46 pm 
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Thinking about the players. The core of them are primarily a team that Gray built and they are used to things going their way, they are used to winning games and success.

They won't be used to this kind of pressure, a lot of them won't have been in a relegation scrap before.

We have a lot of fans for the level we are at - this is one of the reasons players like to come here and it's good when things are going well however the pressure must increase in times like these.

I'm not sure T.W. can turn it around, I would like to think he can because he has brought in some players which have made a difference, and although our results haven't picked up I believe our performances have - and against tough opposition .

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:53 pm 
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tezza wrote:
What was interesting at the final whistle was that there was a quite acceptance, no large scale booing or outward hostility.

Which suggests to me the majority see it for now as H1987 suggests in his opening paragraph.

It a cliché but when is it the right time to change a manager, usually starts with the loss of the changing room. From the players I have seen and exchanged views with they are still a unit thankfully.

A while back people were accusing the club of instability, not having a long term cohesive plan. DJ presented that a few weeks back and it is widely accepted as sensible. The current management team were and still are central planks in that strategy.

I personally want TW/AW to succeed and by that I mean retain our current status. They are not fools they know the clocks ticking.


There was no booing or hostility towards the players or management at the final whistle, because fans knew that we had matched them across the park and they had put in a good display. In fact around me the players were applauded off the pitch.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:01 pm 
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It's all irrelevant if we don't match them in the scoreline.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:03 pm 
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Again.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:18 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
It's all irrelevant if we don't match them in the scoreline.



It's obviously irrelevant to the league table, but if the players feel they've played well they can take some confidence from that performance - and if the fans feel that the team has played well they keep their support up, and the players will benefit from this too.

The real test of Wright comes in the following few weeks.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:42 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
tezza wrote:
What was interesting at the final whistle was that there was a quite acceptance, no large scale booing or outward hostility.

Which suggests to me the majority see it for now as H1987 suggests in his opening paragraph.

It a cliché but when is it the right time to change a manager, usually starts with the loss of the changing room. From the players I have seen and exchanged views with they are still a unit thankfully.

A while back people were accusing the club of instability, not having a long term cohesive plan. DJ presented that a few weeks back and it is widely accepted as sensible. The current management team were and still are central planks in that strategy.

I personally want TW/AW to succeed and by that I mean retain our current status. They are not fools they know the clocks ticking.


A genuine question Tezza (we've had our bickering- that's been and gone).

What makes you sure he can turn this around? I've made the point and LoidLucan has done the same, that nothing in TW's record as a manager suggests he can turn it around. It's phenomenally poor.

And given where we were we he took over, can we not expect a little more than mere survival? Why should finishing 19th be seen as a major triumph?

I get the point about stability, but if a manager is blatantly failing, surely keeping him and watching us go down only adds to the instability.


I do not recall saying I was sure ?
Rather I wanted them to succeed, entirely different.

I accept that results have not gone the way we would have wanted since TW/AW took charge. Where we were and are a relevant as a short term measure, however right now most people accept we are in a relegation battle, for whatever reasons, and survival would be perceived by most as acceptable, if not success.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:05 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
loan_star wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Right, so you weren't at the game but felt the need to comment anyway. And you've picked the one game where we performed badly. What about the Stockport and Bradford PA games, where we performed quite well? You can't just be selective about your examples to prove a point, particularly when you weren't at the game anyway!


Because I know people who were there and they all said we were abysmal which you confirm yourself in your reply. Problem with that?? Or are you just being argumentative with anyone who doesnt follow the darlogramps way of thinking and who can pick holes in your opinions too?


You're so tedious. Whenever you're questioned you resort to personal attacks. It's boring. Read through my post. I've questioned your opinion because it's second-hand and the only example you have. It's massively flawed. At no point did I launch a personal attack, so it reflects badly on you that you've just gone after my character.

I mean, imagine arguing with people who have a different opinion. It's shocking behaviour. How dare I have a different opinion and then express it on a messageboard.

In no way have you provided any sort of argument to say Brown and Turnbull are a worse option. In their games in charge we should have beaten Stockport, and did beat one of the play-off contenders.

More than that, we looked solid, better organised and more capable of picking up results than we do under Tommy Wright. Nuneaton was said to be bad - but was it any worse than Gainsborough? And Wright is meant to be the more experienced manager, so it's worse coming from him surely.


You are unbelievably arrogant! You are just as selective in picking games as examples. You yourself admit that Nuneaton was a bad performance yet you accused me of being selective for highlighting that game, it doesnt matter a toss if I was there or not.
The rot set in long before Wright arrived and since then he has had 3 key players moved on and replaced them with cheaper options as well as agreeing to work under much tighter financial restrictions.
And if you think my post was a personal attack then you have serious issues!!!! But its ok for you to make personal attacks on others. Slightly hypocritical dont you think!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:11 pm 
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Why is the Nuneaton game more relevant than the Stockport/ Bradford PA results? That's why I am saying you're being selective.

I've chosen 2 of the 3 games they had in charge - it's hardly being selective. Both games which you admit were better than the majority this season.

So if you've got more good than bad, why are you saying Turnbull and Brown wouldn't be a better option?

We're speaking from a limited data set but from what we have, it suggests Turnbull and Brown would do no worse than Wright.

They took 4 points from 3, he's taken 4 points from 9 (and lost a cup game).

Yes Wright had a bad hand - but he's made things worse. He's taken a team in mid-table into the relegation zone. His record at Nuneaton and Corby was woeful. I'm sorry, I don't think he's up to it. And no one has offered anything to suggest otherwise.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:15 pm 
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Darlo_Pete wrote:
There was no booing or hostility towards the players or management at the final whistle, because fans knew that we had matched them across the park and they had put in a good display. In fact around me the players were applauded off the pitch.


I didn't see a good display. I saw the same flat, aimless rubbish we've had in most games. The only reason we nearly got a draw was Salford didn't turn up.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:25 pm 
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Makka Pakka wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
There was no booing or hostility towards the players or management at the final whistle, because fans knew that we had matched them across the park and they had put in a good display. In fact around me the players were applauded off the pitch.


I didn't see a good display. I saw the same flat, aimless rubbish we've had in most games. The only reason we nearly got a draw was Salford didn't turn up.
I thought it was a decent game tbh

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:36 pm 
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Considering Salford are full time and top of the league I was disappointed with them but thought we battled well against them and if Styche had been on form [thought he had his worst game for us] then things might have been different


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:54 pm 
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theoriginalfatcat wrote:
grimsbyquaker wrote:
GH I hope you’re right. I’d love TW to turn it round but our record is woeful. I fear something will have to give if we come home empty handed on Saturday



Are you implying that the manager gets sacked? If so I disagree.

It would mean yet another 3 or 4 week wait with no manager - and then who would we end up with? How long would it take to settle the players down yet again? How much would it all cost? It's not a good idea.

Also in one of your other posts you say that if we go down we will never come back up ( or words to that effect) but, why? I can't see many fans falling away, we've made the transition to B.Meadows and sorted the "Gray" issue out. I reckon that we won't go down but if we do it won't prove terminal.

I know we're in a bad place, I know results have been dire, but yet another change would be counter productive.


My worry re a relegation is not fans/attendance etc but our ability to recruit good players. We wouldn’t be able to compete locally for the best possible talent as they’d bypass us straight for Spennymoor, Blyth, South Shields and maybe even Pools. Once in that situation we’d be stuck in a negative cycle imo


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:06 pm 
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grimsbyquaker wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
grimsbyquaker wrote:
GH I hope you’re right. I’d love TW to turn it round but our record is woeful. I fear something will have to give if we come home empty handed on Saturday



Are you implying that the manager gets sacked? If so I disagree.

It would mean yet another 3 or 4 week wait with no manager - and then who would we end up with? How long would it take to settle the players down yet again? How much would it all cost? It's not a good idea.

Also in one of your other posts you say that if we go down we will never come back up ( or words to that effect) but, why? I can't see many fans falling away, we've made the transition to B.Meadows and sorted the "Gray" issue out. I reckon that we won't go down but if we do it won't prove terminal.

I know we're in a bad place, I know results have been dire, but yet another change would be counter productive.


My worry re a relegation is not fans/attendance etc but our ability to recruit good players. We wouldn’t be able to compete locally for the best possible talent as they’d bypass us straight for Spennymoor, Blyth, South Shields and maybe even Pools. Once in that situation we’d be stuck in a negative cycle imo
Well it's ok we have players on 2 year contracts, they'll be good enough to get promoted back up, maybe that was MGs plan all along.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:15 pm 
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My concerns also Nick, like you say any available talent would more than likely head for S Shields and Spenny, in this respect I really hope Poolies stay FT as the local competition will be a whole lot tougher.We have to be positive and stay up, I feel our support will be crucial home and away in the coming months

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:17 pm 
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Just play 4-4 fucking 2 and stick with it, he keeps changing formations and there isn't enough time to set-up for various formations due to us being P/T.
Keep it 4-4-2 which most of the players have played most of their playing careers and we have enough ability in the squad to stay up.

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