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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:32 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
I'd argue you're jumping the gun by talking about TW's 'achievements'. He's not achieved anything other than taking a mid-table team into mid-table with a mid-table budget. That's not begrudging, I just don't think it's anything to be overly impressed with.


TW himself, in his post-match interview, accepts that avoiding relegation is not an achievement.


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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:04 pm 
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He talks honestly and that what I like NO bull shyte Just a cheeky smirk

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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:40 pm 
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Just speaking for myself here, but the fact that Wright & White have a close affinity with the club makes this achievement (if you can call it that) a bit more special. Most football fans support clubs made up of mercenaries, and it's nice when that's not the case.

As a fan-owned club, the fact that the two of them want to be here just feels like a really good fit and I'd enjoy seeing us do well with them at the helm more than with some other manager with no Darlo connection. That doesn't mean they should be spared from the same kind of scrutiny that an 'outsider' would receive, but I doubt they'd want to be - both come across as very honest and self-critical.

And no I'm not calling for Nathan 'one of our own' Cartman to be reinstated up front before I get ripped to shreds!


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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:54 pm 
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Well Wright wasn't my first choice when he got the job but once he got it then I chose to support him, the fact he spoke well, understood the budget situation and seemed not to have an ego like Gray was a nice change.

His first so many games were not great, I don't think trying to change the formation was working and using Thompson in defence was clearly a waste. Gainsborough was a low point with Wright playing 4 wingers Thompson, Gillies, Caton and Mills of which we were terrible. I did question if Wright could turn this around and after Alfreton/Chorley when we snatched draws from the mouth of wins I was starting to give up hope.

Then things changed at Leamington when Brown lost his head and we had to move from 5 at the back to 4, Thompson scored two to win the game and everything turned from there.

Wrights signings have generally been pretty good, Styche, Heaton, Trotman, Pears & O'Hanlon whilst also getting more out of Thompson, Galbraith, Syers & Gillies.

So at this stage with a summer and pre-season ahead of him it will be interesting to see what Wright does with the squad. We can have a decent summer with no real fundraising required, no manager trying to bring the man who attempted to kill the club back and demanding more and more money.

I really hope Wright builds on where he has managed to get us to currently, be nice going into a season optimistic and seeing how it goes. He certainly has the platform to have us in the top half next season so I guess that will confirm if Wright is on the right track.

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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:48 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Credit to him for the improved results but let's not get too far ahead of ourselves.

We have a top 10 budget, with some of the league's best players, and we're currently mid-table.

People can point the finger at Gray as much as they like (and he left us in a bad state) but we were mid-table when Wright took over and we're mid-table now.

I'm not going to get too excited about being mathematically safe from relegation when we should have been nowhere near the bottom three in the first place.

Gray had a bigger budget than Wright. Arguably, he should have had us higher. You can make a lot about budget. We pay over the odds because of where we are. Give our budget to a North West team, you'd have a better squad in my opinion.


Is this the default position when it comes to TW? We can't any serious discussion about him without the conversation turning to MG. I can't wait for next season, because no one can use the MG excuse. TW will 'own' the team, for good or bad.

Even with a reduced playing budget, it's still more competitive than plenty of sides in the division. As I said, we shouldn't have been anywhere near relegation, and celebrating mathematical safety (which thankfully few fans have done) is a silly thing to do.

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You brought Gray into it.


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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:53 pm 
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As a pre-emptive counter argument. It's so predictable I can think up the counter-arguments to it before it's even been posed. If I'd said TW took a mid-table team into mid-table, the first response would have been "But Martin Gray....." (and thanks for neatly proving my point, you predictable so and so - your first argument was MG has had a bigger budget. You didn't need to pose that argument, but did because it's the default rebuttal).

Any suggestion that TW isn't wonderful and perfect is met with "But Martin Gray...."

As I say, roll on next season when TW has a record he can own, for good or bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:03 pm 
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QuakerPete wrote:
Depends on your definitions of freefall v bad run - First 4 games with 10 points against next 11 games with 8 points. No evidence that Gray was ever going to rescue that.


I disagree with that. Gray had turned around bad runs before (usually by buying new players, but that's a separate argument). Either way I think given he had gained three promotions, two titles and a top five finish in this division the year before, you can't really say there's no evidence he'd have not turned things around.

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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:49 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
QuakerPete wrote:
Depends on your definitions of freefall v bad run - First 4 games with 10 points against next 11 games with 8 points. No evidence that Gray was ever going to rescue that.


I disagree with that. Gray had turned around bad runs before (usually by buying new players, but that's a separate argument). Either way I think given he had gained three promotions, two titles and a top five finish in this division the year before, you can't really say there's no evidence he'd have not turned things around.


Gray had cut himself off at the knees last April. There was no way he was turning it around because he’d lost everyone’s trust. You’ve watched enough football to know that’s terminal.


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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:36 pm 
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m62exile wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
QuakerPete wrote:
Depends on your definitions of freefall v bad run - First 4 games with 10 points against next 11 games with 8 points. No evidence that Gray was ever going to rescue that.


I disagree with that. Gray had turned around bad runs before (usually by buying new players, but that's a separate argument). Either way I think given he had gained three promotions, two titles and a top five finish in this division the year before, you can't really say there's no evidence he'd have not turned things around.


Gray had cut himself off at the knees last April. There was no way he was turning it around because he’d lost everyone’s trust. You’ve watched enough football to know that’s terminal.


The evidence that Gray wouldn't have been able to turn the form around is that as things have gone his shortcomings are now coming to the fore at York's expense - tactical inability and an obvious need for funds to paper over these flaws. He is doing his reputation no favours with his constant swipes at fan ownership and the fact York City fans have rejected the proposals of their owner.

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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:47 am 
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Let's face it, you should not judge a manager solely by what happens on the pitch. Keeping a good rapport with the fans (& owners), managing to stick to the budget, developing the squad and tactics appropriate to different opponents. So far, TW is doing well on most of this


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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:57 am 
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m62exile wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
QuakerPete wrote:
Depends on your definitions of freefall v bad run - First 4 games with 10 points against next 11 games with 8 points. No evidence that Gray was ever going to rescue that.


I disagree with that. Gray had turned around bad runs before (usually by buying new players, but that's a separate argument). Either way I think given he had gained three promotions, two titles and a top five finish in this division the year before, you can't really say there's no evidence he'd have not turned things around.


Gray had cut himself off at the knees last April. There was no way he was turning it around because he’d lost everyone’s trust. You’ve watched enough football to know that’s terminal.


Except if that were true, how do we explain the opening four games of the season? The win at Salford was our best of the season. Things clearly weren't that bad in August. I don't think it's quite as simple as you like to make out.

And sorry, you're being revisionist when it comes to Gray. He most definitely had not lost everyone's trust last April. Yes some were against him, but there was a big section of the fanbase who were not only behind him, but wanted him to get an even bigger budget.

To say he lost everyone's trust last April is frankly bullshit. Just search through the old threads on here for a starting point.

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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:32 am 
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Darlogramps wrote:
To say he lost everyone's trust last April is frankly bullshit. Just search through the old threads on here for a starting point.


Correct.

real_darlo_85 wrote:
The evidence that Gray wouldn't have been able to turn the form around is that as things have gone his shortcomings are now coming to the fore at York's expense - tactical inability and an obvious need for funds to paper over these flaws. He is doing his reputation no favours with his constant swipes at fan ownership and the fact York City fans have rejected the proposals of their owner.


This hits the nail for me. He has taken a top 5 team with a top 2 budget out of the play offs for one reason or another. He had room to bring in virtually who he wanted and is still making a mess of it. I honestly think we would have been lower down the table had Gray stayed as his tactics had been found out and he is stubborn when it comes to changing it. I doubt the likes of Styche, O'Hanlon and Trotman would have signed for Gray. We only got them because they had played under Wright before and wanted to play for him again. Gray tried to sign Styche in the summer and was knocked back.


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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:15 pm 
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jury's still out I'd say for TW. fair play for stopping the rot and avoiding relegation. I think he did have a stroke of luck when injuries played a part in forcing him to line us up in a certain way and therefore probably change our style of play.

next season will be the true indicator. completely clean slate with his own squad.


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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:02 am 
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Surprised that no one has identified the potential complication of exposure of 3 key players (Heaton / Wheatley / Trotman) in the England C squad and V9 academy TV talent show. Would expect some bigger clubs to come in and give someone the chance of a professional career. Obviously if the contract offers are good enough for both club and player, DFC should not stand in their way. Leaves the issue of replacement or cover for these gaps in the squad. I could see Vaulks stepping into Heaton's boots, possibly Gillies replacing Wheatley but then what? Nice problem for TW to puzzle over the break.


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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:54 am 
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jjljks wrote:
Surprised that no one has identified the potential complication of exposure of 3 key players (Heaton / Wheatley / Trotman) in the England C squad and V9 academy TV talent show. Would expect some bigger clubs to come in and give someone the chance of a professional career. Obviously if the contract offers are good enough for both club and player, DFC should not stand in their way. Leaves the issue of replacement or cover for these gaps in the squad. I could see Vaulks stepping into Heaton's boots, possibly Gillies replacing Wheatley but then what? Nice problem for TW to puzzle over the break.

We'll have to uncover more talent, like every small club ever.

We lost Beck, Ferguson and Bartlett and we replaced all of them.

Realistically we have to assume (and hope) that our best players are snapped up by bigger clubs.

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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:56 am 
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Looking at Curzon drawing with Nuneaton yesterday and the games around us scheduled for this evening.
Brackley v Bradford PA
Boston v Harrogate
Blyth Spartans v AFC Telford

It's not beyond the relms of possibility that if results go our way, that we could finish 9th at the end of the season, just behind York. That would probably change my opinion of the season from a B- to a B+.


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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:13 am 
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Young Mitchell Glover could stand in for Wheatley from what I have seen. Vaulx for Heaton and either Portus or Collins for Trotman ( plus we have our previous right back Hunter on the road to recovery). It would be good to see the young lads get picked up from the V9 to be honest. Money into the bank (we need a fighting fund built up if we are going to get into the conference at some time), would be great boost for the other young lads in the team and future recruits (including the new academy). Plus Tommy may have other players he has his eye on for the future already.
Next Year is not going to be easy as there will still be plenty of full time teams in the league but at least most of the games now I am enjoying the football and expect that to continue next year, ( I really did not like the long ball game - personal preference).

As for TW and AW I think they have done really well, picked up a team low on confidence and have them playing football, has brought in some good players, realises the financial constraints on the club and has a great interaction with the fans. Whats not to like:).

Well done Tommy and Alan, you went through a bad patch (and took some stick as people were expecting instant sucess) and came out the other side with a tiny touchof


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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:16 am 
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Last post meant to finish with "tiny touch of success"


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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:30 am 
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50 years wrote:

Well done Tommy and Alan, you went through a bad patch (and took some stick as people were expecting instant sucess) and came out the other side with a tiny touchof


No one expected "instant success" you moron!

But what his critics didn't expect was for him to spend three months messing around with a formation and style that didn't work for the squad, then chopping and changing without any strategy or coherence.

That messing around without a plan took us into the relegation zone, before he stumbled across something that worked in the final half hour against Leamington.

Since then he's gone from strength to strength, with a couple of set backs (e.g. Boston at home) but everyone is happy at the direction we appear to be going.

But some people are allowing their dislike of MG and their admiration for TW as a person to make out he's achieved a great feat by avoiding relegation. He hasn't and admits that himself.

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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:31 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:23 am 
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jjljks wrote:
Surprised that no one has identified the potential complication of exposure of 3 key players (Heaton / Wheatley / Trotman) in the England C squad and V9 academy TV talent show. Would expect some bigger clubs to come in and give someone the chance of a professional career. Obviously if the contract offers are good enough for both club and player, DFC should not stand in their way. Leaves the issue of replacement or cover for these gaps in the squad. I could see Vaulks stepping into Heaton's boots, possibly Gillies replacing Wheatley but then what? Nice problem for TW to puzzle over the break.


If worst case scenario happens, and all three leave in summer, we have Vaulks as a replacement for Heaton, Portas for Trotman and our aim is to sign a new striker during summer so move to two upfront and drop Syers back if Wheatley leaves.


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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:25 am 
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Darlogramps wrote:
50 years wrote:

Well done Tommy and Alan, you went through a bad patch (and took some stick as people were expecting instant sucess) and came out the other side with a tiny touchof


No one expected "instant success" you moron!

But what his critics didn't expect was for him to spend three months messing around with a formation and style that didn't work for the squad, then chopping and changing without any strategy or coherence.

That messing around without a plan took us into the relegation zone, before he stumbled across something that worked in the final half hour against Leamington.

Since then he's gone from strength to strength, with a couple of set backs (e.g. Boston at home) but everyone is happy at the direction we appear to be going.

But some people are allowing their dislike of MG and their admiration for TW as a person to make out he's achieved a great feat by avoiding relegation. He hasn't and admits that himself.

Calling someone "a moron" for having an honest opinion is unacceptable Gramps and totally uncalled for.We are all Darlo fans and give our opinions, there are agreements and disagreements to individual posts but no need for replies like that for gods sake.


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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:32 am 
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People have said much worse to me on here. Didn't see any condemnation then.....

I'm just a bit fed up of the deliberate mischaracterisation and digs at anyone who's not convinced by TW. It's not a case of wanting instant success. Simply that TW was getting a lot wrong in the first three months and that was pointed out.

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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:55 am 
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Darlogramps wrote:
50 years wrote:

Well done Tommy and Alan, you went through a bad patch (and took some stick as people were expecting instant sucess) and came out the other side with a tiny touchof


No one expected "instant success" you moron!



Never knew you spoke for every single Darlo fan Gramps.

Quite far reaching to say that 'no one' expected instant success.

I personally didn't, but there will have been those which did.

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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:15 am 
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"No one expected "instant success" you moron!"

Completely uncalled for!

All 50 Years did was give a perfectly reasoned personal opinion - much (if not all of which I agree with). If you have been called worse on here then that is also not right but I don't think it will have been 50 Years who did it.

That was badly done I am afraid. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:22 am 
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BUSHEAD wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
50 years wrote:

Well done Tommy and Alan, you went through a bad patch (and took some stick as people were expecting instant sucess) and came out the other side with a tiny touchof


No one expected "instant success" you moron!



Never knew you spoke for every single Darlo fan Gramps.

Quite far reaching to say that 'no one' expected instant success.

I personally didn't, but there will have been those which did.


I've not seen anyone who did. Did you? Has anyone?

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Last edited by Darlogramps on Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:27 am 
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dfcdfcdfc wrote:
"No one expected "instant success" you moron!"

Completely uncalled for!

All 50 Years did was give a perfectly reasoned personal opinion - much (if not all of which I agree with). If you have been called worse on here then that is also not right but I don't think it will have been 50 Years who did it.

That was badly done I am afraid. :(


People have insulted my family and made jibes about my mental health on here in the past.

I can take that but people shouldn't be surprised if I fire it back. What I don't like is the hypocrisy of leaping down my throat for a minor insult - but personal remarks about me and my family are allowed to slide.

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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:32 am 
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Darlogramps wrote:
No one expected "instant success" you moron!


Haway Gramps, you are quick to complain when anyone uses such language towards you. So why do it to others when theres not even an argument going on?


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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:33 am 
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loan_star wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
No one expected "instant success" you moron!


Haway Gramps, you are quick to complain when anyone uses such language towards you. So why do it to others when theres not even an argument going on?


I refer you to my previous answers in this thread.

Calling someone a moron = instant condemnation.

But people making jibes about my mental health, disparaging remarks about my family = not a word being said.

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 Post subject: Re: Well done Tommy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:40 am 
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Darlogramps wrote:
loan_star wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
No one expected "instant success" you moron!


Haway Gramps, you are quick to complain when anyone uses such language towards you. So why do it to others when theres not even an argument going on?


I refer you to my previous answers in this thread.

Calling someone a moron = instant condemnation.

But people making jibes about my mental health, disparaging remarks about my family = not a word being said.


The point is you cant complain if someone is abusive towards you now as you dont hold any moral high ground since you are more than capable of being abusive for no reason. If you and 50 Years had been going at it like you and I do sometimes then things can be said in the heat of the moment. On this occasion you have let yourself down.


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