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 Post subject: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 5:12 pm 
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Been discussed numorous times, however the club has issued the below:

http://darlingtonfootballclub.co.uk/her ... options-2/


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 5:26 pm 
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Credit to whoever put that together

Having read that, I'm in favour of just signing it over to Bishop. I personally don't think 20k is value for money for something which will hardly be used and will hopefully have to be dismantled in the near future. I'd rather 20k goes in the pot for something permanent

Interesting that the open end flat standing won't count towards capacity in the National League.

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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 5:44 pm 
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I'd be in favour if it can be made permanent by putting a roof on it. I actually think it's a good idea for raised seating with standing at the front, as seats would be required in future, and this way it won't involve tearing down the existing seating stand to install them.

So for me; install them *if*

1) It can be made permanent
2) If it can be expanded up to the pipe - I guess that would leave around 500 extra seats and not restrict standing behind the goal in future

I realise those are two very considerable *if's*, so hopefully in the feedback there is an option to include this feedback. I've read the report but haven't done the form just yet.

Credit to the board for the transparency :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 5:49 pm 
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Also, is another factor to be considered that if Bish *don't* want them, are we still going to be liable for costs of removing them and restoring their ground to what it was, even if we don't use them? That appears to be around 1k, and then we'd have to get rid of the damned things, which presumably would have some cost involved too in terms of transport and disposal....

Perhaps another factor that should be considered.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 5:58 pm 
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H1987 wrote:
Also, is another factor to be considered that if Bish *don't* want them, are we still going to be liable for costs of removing them and restoring their ground to what it was, even if we don't use them? That appears to be around 1k, and then we'd have to get rid of the damned things, which presumably would have some cost involved too in terms of transport and disposal....

Perhaps another factor that should be considered.


I’d imagine that a no-cost handover would state that Bishop are liable for any future upkeep or removal.

Personally, I’d sign them over and, if we are to upgrade Blackwell further, focus on adding stepping to the terraces to increase capacity.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 5:58 pm 
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We should definitely bring the seats home 20K in this day and age for 150 seats is a no brainer. The talk about it might have to dismantled to get the upgraded on promotion to the football League might be true, however the work needed (if at all possible) to bring BM up to league standard would pale into insignificance.
So get the seats in they belong to us.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:18 pm 
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Darlopartisan wrote:
We should definitely bring the seats home 20K in this day and age for 150 seats is a no brainer. The talk about it might have to dismantled to get the upgraded on promotion to the football League might be true, however the work needed (if at all possible) to bring BM up to league standard would pale into insignificance.
So get the seats in they belong to us.


They'd have to come down as soon as we got promoted, how would we increase capacity by 1000 needed to remain in the National league AND keep the temporary seats? They would be a waste of money.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:31 pm 
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Darlopartisan wrote:
We should definitely bring the seats home 20K in this day and age for 150 seats is a no brainer. The talk about it might have to dismantled to get the upgraded on promotion to the football League might be true, however the work needed (if at all possible) to bring BM up to league standard would pale into insignificance.
So get the seats in they belong to us.

As stated in the report,we already have around 200 unoccupied seats in the main stand so putting extra seating in that you couldn’t really charge for doesn’t make sense.
The only way I could see them being any use at all is by putting them up without the seating to make a small but handy bit of terracing.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:42 pm 
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A few points;

1. Until we know what will happen at the Sporting Hub then is there much point?
2. 25k (with VAT) is a good price for 300 seats if they can be made permanent and will therefore count towards capacity. The club are investigating this at the moment. However, we would have to add the cost of a roof to this which would be extra expense.
3. As the club have indicated, we would need a structure to house 1500 spectators at the flat end if we were to get promoted. If this were to be seating, then the cost of adding another 1,200 seats would be huge, and IF we could incorporate the seats into a bigger structure. Then imagine increasing to 5,000 for the FL. I don't fancy fundraising that, so am assuming that terracing would be cheaper. This being the case, 25k for a possible one year project doesn't seem very cost effective.
4. How would we fund it?
5. The club would,prefer to fund an increase of 1,500 capacity if we were to be promoted 'incrementally'. However, were we promoted, we would have 11 or so months to fundraise. Does this mean the club are going to speculate and start fundraising this season?

I dread to think what the cost of getting back into the FL would be if we had to develop BM, even the cost of getting another promotion. Anyone else share this concern?


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:56 pm 
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Do we qualify for further grants at the next level?


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:59 pm 
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Overall, much as it would be nice for the ground to feel a bit more complete, and it feels like a shame to waste something like this, I'd say patience is probably a virtue here. You're essentially busting our nonleague challenge money on something which neither provides significant future income notr solves a longer-term problem. On reflection I'd say we give them to bishop.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:08 pm 
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Eye-watering that in the FL flat standing along the touch lines ceases to count towards capacity. This means that given the 1100 capacity of the Tin Shed and the 600 seats then we're talking a monster structure of 3,300 capacity (as FL minimum capacity is 5,000) , of which 1500 must be seats after year 3, at the flat end, and only able to go up to where the water pipe is. Jesus. Let's say that you can have 100 seats along as a conservative estimate until you hit the pipe, that's 33 rows back.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:11 pm 
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Vodka_Vic wrote:
Eye-watering that in the FL flat standing along the touch lines ceases to count towards capacity. This means that given the 1100 capacity of the Tin Shed and the 600 seats then we're talking a monster structure of 3,300 capacity (as FL minimum capacity is 5,000) , of which 1500 must be seats after year 3, at the flat end, and only able to go up to where the water pipe is. Jesus. Let's say that you can have 100 seats along as a conservative estimate until you hit the pipe, that's 33 rows back.


If nothing else, imagining we could do this financially, it would be a pleasingly unusual ground.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:27 pm 
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We'd never get planning permission for it. You'd be able to see it from the bloody moon. Just to put it into perspective, I believe that the capacity of the side main stand at the Arena is 10,000, so that stand a third of the way along.


Last edited by Vodka_Vic on Wed May 30, 2018 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:29 pm 
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tdk1 wrote:
Do we qualify for further grants at the next level?


Yes 150k extra for now.

With a reset after 5 years so we are some distance before we can qualify for anything above the 150k unless we got promotion back in the league.

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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:31 pm 
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Alternative is to knock down the clubhouse and build there, which would be the most convenient in terms of location.

But the obvious problems are that A) we don't own the ground and unless there's a substantial benefit to do so, I don't see the rugby club allowing it and B) the old chestnut, financing it.

Ultimately we're best seeing what happens with this sporting hub idea, but I fail to see any long-term benefit to shelling out £19k for the seats.

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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:32 pm 
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For me it depends on:

a) can they be made permanent and how much extra would this cost?
b) assuming it is £20k to move them and another £20k to eventually remove them to make way for something permanent, what could we get by way of permanent structure (be it seats or terracing) for that £40k?

If it were to cost us £50k or £60k for a decent size terrace in the same spot for example, I'd just put any fundraising towards that from the outset.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:
Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:39 pm 
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It's clear that the best solution is to forget about these temporary seats and move on. Don't chuck good money after bad on something that we won't get that much benefit from and is not a long-term solution to anything. They would end up more trouble than they are worth.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:50 pm 
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Haven't looked at the report fully yet but sounds like it's either impossible or costly to add those seats, put a roof on and make tem permanent, whilst also ensuring we are not taking up space for future developments which could be bigger & better.

As many have mentioned I think we are just throwing money away, would much rather we looked at what it would cost to add something which fits our more longer term needs even if it's more costly.

It's not like we are desperate for more seats and I would imagine putting this in and adding a roof which would make it useful will be more than 50k.

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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 8:22 pm 
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The report serves as a reminder of just how difficult it will be to reach the capacity needed for NL. A temporary stand would have to go once we were in the NL as it simply wouldn't fit into a longer plan to get the ground up to NL standard. Moreover, the report highlights the almost impossible task of turning Blackwell Meadows into a FL ground. It's just not going to happen is it? The sports hub would be a real blessing, but ultimately our long term goal must include the ambition to get a ground of our own. FCUM did it, although it might take us a lot longer.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 9:19 pm 
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Has a price been given for a section of open terracing behind that goal?

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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 9:22 pm 
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LoidLucan wrote:
It's clear that the best solution is to forget about these temporary seats and move on. Don't chuck good money after bad on something that we won't get that much benefit from and is not a long-term solution to anything. They would end up more trouble than they are worth.


This. Don't chuck good money after bad. Just sign them over to Bishop and move on.

Its not an issue for now in terms of attendances and if it was an issue it would be a segregated game and we wouldn't get the benefit from them anyway. We need to understand in the next year or so where the Sporting Village is at and move forwards from there. Whatever the result we will need mega finance to get to the next level as we'll need bigger capacity, more toilets, more turnstiles etc.

If we were to improve BM then i'd be looking to improve it for Home fans first. eg:

1) could we take the tin shed round the corner to fill the gap up to the pipe (with a gap for the exit) Give more fans an elevated view.
2) Another block of toilets, in the corner behind the food shack, next to the tin shed.
3) is it possbile to get some terracing along the club house side to give some fans some elevation on that side, Perhaps only 4 steps high but double width steps eg 2 people per row.
4) then sort out the away end.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 12:08 am 
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I still think the fundamental question here is if it can be made permanent.

If it can't, no. If it can, yes. Put this in the form.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 12:51 am 
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H1987 wrote:
I still think the fundamental question here is if it can be made permanent.

If it can't, no. If it can, yes. Put this in the form.


The fundamental question is can it form part of the ground plans for the next level and above. The answer is no.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:57 am 
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It’s a bit of a no brainer for me.

The opportunity here is to spend £20k on seats which aren’t in demand (there are 200 unused in the main stand with improved sight lines), or not spend £20k.

For what it’s worth the graphic of the stand in situ looks quite cool. Can start to visualise that with a terrace at that end of the ground it really starts to ‘come together’.

I can see a lot of common sense written above so I’m reasonably confident the right outcome will be arrived at. It would be interesting for all those who reply with “they are our seats let’s get them” how many would be prepared to pay for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 5:21 am 
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One question not answered in the report is would Bishop agree to the stand being transferred to them? This is especially so when you look at costs of removing it.

Bishop gain no benefit from stand remaining there as they do not charge for seating & have enough seats in main stand for their crowds.

Bishop could easily turn round and demand Darlington remove stand or pay Bishop to take it off their hands.

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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 5:38 am 
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Good job done by those producing the report and nice to see some figures in £ for each part of the options (even if my eyes started watering). Coolly some facts have been presented and concise reasons why the practical options all laid out. Great bit of transparency by the Board to give us fans as the owners an opportunity to make a difficult decision.

I would appeal to each of us to be rational about their decision before giving feedback before the deadline.

Just for once i find myself in agreement with Spen666 and the one question not asked of Bishop. Also hope that no Monkey hangers / Russian hackers / other low-life trolls don't stick their oars in to muddy the waters :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 6:46 am 
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The board are hoping for a sell out (or bumper 2,500+) crowd for the 'legends' game.

So that would mean a 1,000 or so floating fans coming back to Blackwell Meadows. I can see the comments now about one of the main issues , which is sight lines.

So although £25k may seem a great amount for what COULD be a one season wonder if you could get 200 of those floating fans back for just 8 games (based on £15 a game with ticket and sundries) the stand would pay for itself .

Just a thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 7:30 am 
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BUSHEAD wrote:
The board are hoping for a sell out (or bumper 2,500+) crowd for the 'legends' game.

So that would mean a 1,000 or so floating fans coming back to Blackwell Meadows. I can see the comments now about one of the main issues , which is sight lines.

So although £25k may seem a great amount for what COULD be a one season wonder if you could get 200 of those floating fans back for just 8 games (based on £15 a game with ticket and sundries) the stand would pay for itself .

Just a thought.

You're not factoring in the cost of then removing the seats again at some stage though.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:
Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:01 am 
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Spyman wrote:
BUSHEAD wrote:
The board are hoping for a sell out (or bumper 2,500+) crowd for the 'legends' game.

So that would mean a 1,000 or so floating fans coming back to Blackwell Meadows. I can see the comments now about one of the main issues , which is sight lines.

So although £25k may seem a great amount for what COULD be a one season wonder if you could get 200 of those floating fans back for just 8 games (based on £15 a game with ticket and sundries) the stand would pay for itself .

Just a thought.

You're not factoring in the cost of then removing the seats again at some stage though.

He's also not factored in the price for concessions/U11s free and the minor proportion of the sundries that DFC would receive. So maybe £9 a game would be more realistic. Also we would have to raise the cash and complete the job before the legends game. Bit of a tall order and a gamble in my book.


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