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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:02 am 
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Hand over the seats to Bishop and use any money raised on terracing or the hub.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:09 am 
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While sight lines do need improving I don't think those seats are the solution. A small, open terrace at the away end which can be extended if/when we need to significantly increase capacity and we can raise the money.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:19 am 
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The best solution is if Bishop want them to remain, then sign them over to them and be done.
Failing that and they have to be removed then dismantle and sell for scrap. May even cover cost of re-instatment of Heritage park which according to Lee would only be around £1000.
We are no longer a Northern League club, they have served their purpose and must have a limited life anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:24 am 
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Darlo_Pete wrote:
Hand over the seats to Bishop and use any money raised on terracing or the hub.

A little disingenuous if you are suggesting we try to sell them to Bishop after they were our very accommodating hosts for several years.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:20 am 
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banktopp wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Hand over the seats to Bishop and use any money raised on terracing or the hub.

A little disingenuous if you are suggesting we try to sell them to Bishop after they were our very accommodating hosts for several years.


Think that any sale price would just be nominal fee for legal purposes, but would also release some funds that would have been budgeted for the project. Bishops were good to us, but one problem was the 'no standing' ruling on the grassy bank, so in order to avoid that in future and also doing a bit to improve the sight lines, then I would prefer to see investing in terracing part of the away end.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:26 am 
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dfc4me wrote:
While sight lines do need improving I don't think those seats are the solution. A small, open terrace at the away end which can be extended if/when we need to significantly increase capacity and we can raise the money.


This.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:09 am 
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Spyman wrote:
BUSHEAD wrote:
The board are hoping for a sell out (or bumper 2,500+) crowd for the 'legends' game.

So that would mean a 1,000 or so floating fans coming back to Blackwell Meadows. I can see the comments now about one of the main issues , which is sight lines.

So although £25k may seem a great amount for what COULD be a one season wonder if you could get 200 of those floating fans back for just 8 games (based on £15 a game with ticket and sundries) the stand would pay for itself .

Just a thought.

You're not factoring in the cost of then removing the seats again at some stage though.


I'll bulldoze it for free :thumbup:

Like I say, it was just a thought .

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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:12 am 
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Maurice_Peddelty wrote:
Spyman wrote:
BUSHEAD wrote:
The board are hoping for a sell out (or bumper 2,500+) crowd for the 'legends' game.

So that would mean a 1,000 or so floating fans coming back to Blackwell Meadows. I can see the comments now about one of the main issues , which is sight lines.

So although £25k may seem a great amount for what COULD be a one season wonder if you could get 200 of those floating fans back for just 8 games (based on £15 a game with ticket and sundries) the stand would pay for itself .

Just a thought.

You're not factoring in the cost of then removing the seats again at some stage though.

He's also not factored in the price for concessions/U11s free and the minor proportion of the sundries that DFC would receive. So maybe £9 a game would be more realistic. Also we would have to raise the cash and complete the job before the legends game. Bit of a tall order and a gamble in my book.


We wouldn't have to raise the cash, we have it already.
Oh and I dont count U11s as our 'floating' supporters, I mean adults.
But like I say, was just a thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:13 am 
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Modular terracing anyone ?
Is that even a thing ?


EDIT - Yes it is

https://www.stadiumsolutions.co.uk/prod ... -terraces/

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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:25 am 
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Depends if there's any significant costs to keep maintaining them or if they've any scrape value.

If the answers to those questions are "no", and "yes", then I'd say, "give 'em to Bishop"


(If the answers are "yes" and "no", then give 'em to West)

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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:35 am 
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Darlogramps wrote:
Alternative is to knock down the clubhouse and build there, which would be the most convenient in terms of location.

But the obvious problems are that A) we don't own the ground and unless there's a substantial benefit to do so, I don't see the rugby club allowing it and B) the old chestnut, financing it.
.

I can see how we can get a NL ground at BM, with a big structure at the open end (and thus putting some temporary seats there which will barely be used and will possibly need to be removed, hopefully soon, isn't the best use of our limited money). But I can't see a feasible way as to how a FL ground will ever be there unless the clubhouse side is developed. I would love to see some plans as to how it might come together both at the next level and hypothetically the FL if we ever get that far (although of course it raises the question as to whether spending millions on developing a plot of land for which we only rent the pitch for a few hours every other weekend is the best course of action, but I'm getting ahead of myself).

I guess once the sporting village is either on or off the table, a longer term plan can develop.

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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:38 am 
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banktopp wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Hand over the seats to Bishop and use any money raised on terracing or the hub.

A little disingenuous if you are suggesting we try to sell them to Bishop after they were our very accommodating hosts for several years.


Where did I say sell? Hand over means give the seats to Bishop.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:51 am 
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I hope that contributors on here are actually registering their views on the formal channel.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:44 am 
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Great piece of work by Lee and the team which shows how professional we are these days. It puts to bed the argument that we can somehow just send over some volunteers and bring them back to BM which has done the rounds plenty.

Most people on here and on social media seem to be against bringing them across as they don't contribute to ground grading which is a legitimate point of view. Maybe I agree - I don't know.

The thing is though it's not people like "us" (ie die hard fans) that would benefit, it's the folks we are trying desperately to attract and retain. We don't have that many seats available for walk up and so far there's been plenty of empty seats in the stand - but then again we've had pretty low attendances since it opened. (1200 ave)

End of the day are we satisfied that if we start the season well and get a couple of 2500 crowds that we'll be able to keep those people who come. The timelines and cost may make this a non starter and that is fine but I think we need to look beyond simple ground grading for a promotion that we may never have enough fans to generate.

Nice to have the full picture to make a balanced contribution on though.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:55 am 
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Darlo_Pete wrote:
banktopp wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Hand over the seats to Bishop and use any money raised on terracing or the hub.

A little disingenuous if you are suggesting we try to sell them to Bishop after they were our very accommodating hosts for several years.


Where did I say sell? Hand over means give the seats to Bishop.



So, how is that going to raise any money for the terracing as you suggested in your original post?

I am confused

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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 12:35 pm 
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BUSHEAD wrote:
Maurice_Peddelty wrote:
Spyman wrote:
BUSHEAD wrote:
The board are hoping for a sell out (or bumper 2,500+) crowd for the 'legends' game.

So that would mean a 1,000 or so floating fans coming back to Blackwell Meadows. I can see the comments now about one of the main issues , which is sight lines.

So although £25k may seem a great amount for what COULD be a one season wonder if you could get 200 of those floating fans back for just 8 games (based on £15 a game with ticket and sundries) the stand would pay for itself .

Just a thought.

You're not factoring in the cost of then removing the seats again at some stage though.

He's also not factored in the price for concessions/U11s free and the minor proportion of the sundries that DFC would receive. So maybe £9 a game would be more realistic. Also we would have to raise the cash and complete the job before the legends game. Bit of a tall order and a gamble in my book.


We wouldn't have to raise the cash, we have it already.
Oh and I dont count U11s as our 'floating' supporters, I mean adults.
But like I say, was just a thought.

We would have to raise it - have you read the report & survey? 200 of the seats have been surplus since new stand came into operation so that would mean retaining a lot more from the Legends game


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 12:49 pm 
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Maurice_Peddelty wrote:
BUSHEAD wrote:
Maurice_Peddelty wrote:
Spyman wrote:
BUSHEAD wrote:
The board are hoping for a sell out (or bumper 2,500+) crowd for the 'legends' game.

So that would mean a 1,000 or so floating fans coming back to Blackwell Meadows. I can see the comments now about one of the main issues , which is sight lines.

So although £25k may seem a great amount for what COULD be a one season wonder if you could get 200 of those floating fans back for just 8 games (based on £15 a game with ticket and sundries) the stand would pay for itself .

Just a thought.

You're not factoring in the cost of then removing the seats again at some stage though.

He's also not factored in the price for concessions/U11s free and the minor proportion of the sundries that DFC would receive. So maybe £9 a game would be more realistic. Also we would have to raise the cash and complete the job before the legends game. Bit of a tall order and a gamble in my book.


We wouldn't have to raise the cash, we have it already.
Oh and I dont count U11s as our 'floating' supporters, I mean adults.
But like I say, was just a thought.

We would have to raise it - have you read the report & survey? 200 of the seats have been surplus since new stand came into operation so that would mean retaining a lot more from the Legends game


OK, lets do nothing, let our floaters come to Blackwell Meadows for legends game and be pissed off at lack of decent viewing & come back on here and moan about low crowds.
Or take a low risk calculated gamble, that we can get our crowds up to 2,000 far more regularly.
Here's another thought - make that the away fans area , so we could charge more and quite within our rights to do so. (Yes i know they have a bit of the existing stand before anyone points that out)

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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:16 pm 
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Something is being done but money has to be raised for this purpose as it is not in the budget which is why the answer to question 7 on the feedback will be important


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:58 pm 
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BUSHEAD wrote:
OK, lets do nothing, let our floaters come to Blackwell Meadows for legends game and be pissed off at lack of decent viewing & come back on here and moan about low crowds.
Or take a low risk calculated gamble, that we can get our crowds up to 2,000 far more regularly.
Here's another thought - make that the away fans area , so we could charge more and quite within our rights to do so. (Yes i know they have a bit of the existing stand before anyone points that out)


I don’t know that I read anywhere that the Legends game < 2 months away would be target date to get the stand back.

The way I interpreted is that there are still outstanding questions regarding the ability to ‘turn’ permanent which would need to be boxed off, funds would need to be raised from the fans to pay for the transfer and then the actual work would need to be completed. That isn’t going to happen and be signed off as safe to use by 29th July.

What has triggered this is Bishop simply wanting to know what is happening with the stand rather than a demand by Bishop to move them with some immediacy.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 2:03 pm 
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lo36789 wrote:
BUSHEAD wrote:
OK, lets do nothing, let our floaters come to Blackwell Meadows for legends game and be pissed off at lack of decent viewing & come back on here and moan about low crowds.
Or take a low risk calculated gamble, that we can get our crowds up to 2,000 far more regularly.
Here's another thought - make that the away fans area , so we could charge more and quite within our rights to do so. (Yes i know they have a bit of the existing stand before anyone points that out)


I don’t know that I read anywhere that the Legends game < 2 months away would be target date to get the stand back.

The way I interpreted is that there are still outstanding questions regarding the ability to ‘turn’ permanent which would need to be boxed off, funds would need to be raised from the fans to pay for the transfer and then the actual work would need to be completed. That isn’t going to happen and be signed off as safe to use by 29th July.

What has triggered this is Bishop simply wanting to know what is happening with the stand rather than a demand by Bishop to move them with some immediacy.



Fair point lo36789

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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 2:19 pm 
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Since the extension of the seated stand was completed it has been very sparsely used, I would think around 180/200 of the seats has remained empty, so for me spending unnecessary funds on the temporary seats /stand is an expense wasted, let's see if bishop Auckland would like to keep the seats /stand and if so let bishop Auckland have them, then we can move on to our next fundraising whatever that would be. Better to start a fresh with whatever we need next.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 2:36 pm 
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lo36789 wrote:
....

What has triggered this is Bishop simply wanting to know what is happening with the stand rather than a demand by Bishop to move them with some immediacy.



I agree with everything else you said in your post.

However, on this point, I read it that the stand at HP had temporary planning permission. I had interpreted it that Bishop were asking because the temporary planning permission may be coming to an end and that it would require either the stand being removed or a new application for temporary planning permission. (That is based on an assumption partly resulting from the fact the stand needed temporary planning permission to be used at HP)

If a new application for temporary planning permission is needed, then it appears to be quite expensive (circa £1000+ according to Darlington for an application at BM). I am sure Bishop do not want to pay for this application at HP if the stand is not going to remain at HP. In fact they may not want to pay for it at all as it provides little benefit to them at NL level as they do not charge for seating.

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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 3:00 pm 
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I may be out of kilter with most on here, but my personal preference would be to bring the seats to BM. Anything that improves viewing even in the short term may help improve the experience of floating fans (anything over 1800 fans and viewing is an issue I believe). The seats would be at least be there for almost 2 years if moved in the close season, and that is assuming we get promoted in TW's first full season ( this gives us time to see if they are a saleable item as well for future disposal?). Realise that the finance is the issue and may be the main decider in the end.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 3:21 pm 
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Darlo_Pete wrote:
banktopp wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Hand over the seats to Bishop and use any money raised on terracing or the hub.

A little disingenuous if you are suggesting we try to sell them to Bishop after they were our very accommodating hosts for several years.


Where did I say sell? Hand over means give the seats to Bishop.


All right, give the seats to Bishop and quite where then is the money going to be raised unless we sold them ? Unless of course you regard them as a modern art installation and folks would pay just to look at them.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 3:37 pm 
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Bit like the 'art installation' outside the Darlo Arts Centre (now closed) then the 'artist' had the cheek to ask if she could have it back (think the original waste of £ ran into 6 figures) - could have had a Sports Hub for that!


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 6:19 pm 
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Upon closer inspection, and i do appreciate the club catering for this, but 2.5k is there unaccounted just in case. So there's a good chance it could be less than 19k, an more like 16.5. Which is a lot better.

I still think the club needs to get the information on if these can be made permanent before we can make a properly informed decision on this. I'm a little confused if they can't be, because in essence they're not really very different from the ones currently at BM, they just don't have a roof over them. Also, stands exist elsewhere which are essentially the same, but with a roof (Fulham, for example). I think it's worth doing *if* we can make them permanent. I don't think it's worth doing if we can't, so i'm just going to put this in the comment section, and trust the powers than be to make the right judgement.

Regarding 'hard standing' would it not be the case that we'd just need to put extra barriers in, set back from the perimeter, as is the case of the tin shed. This would technically be terracing, no? Anyway, if we ever reach the football league, we would have access to more funding to worry about it at that stage. Lets keep our eyes on the NL requirements for now, as well as making BM feel a bit more like home, and winning back lapsed fans.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 6:32 pm 
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Perhaps i wonder if, in terms of profitability, it could be allocated as the away end permanently, and thus chargeable as a seated price for away fans? Or is that a bit dick-ish? After all, I don't think there's anything to stop us operating all games as segregated, and that would be the easiest way of segregating them? Put an entrance in that corner and a food stand, and then giving Darlo fans the other corner where they currently tend to congregate or be allocated when segregation is in place.

I think one of the issues with bad sight lines at BM has come from games where segregation is in place, as the away fans currently get a *lot* of hard standing, leaving limited room for Darlo fans in front of the club house or between the seated stand and tinshed. If we had all the away fans in that stand, it'd probably ease issues in the rest of the ground.


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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 6:47 pm 
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How to make BM even less appealing than it already is to away fans - shove them into uncovered seating which will likely offer a terrible view and charge them £16

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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 6:56 pm 
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How much does a permanent terrace cost that would take up the same footprint? Say half the length of the tinshed and uncovered (for now).

Any ideas?

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 Post subject: Re: Temp Seats at HP
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 7:10 pm 
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spen666 wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
banktopp wrote:
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Hand over the seats to Bishop and use any money raised on terracing or the hub.

A little disingenuous if you are suggesting we try to sell them to Bishop after they were our very accommodating hosts for several years.


Where did I say sell? Hand over means give the seats to Bishop.



So, how is that going to raise any money for the terracing as you suggested in your original post?

I am confused


It isn't going to raise any money for the terracing, which will have to be paid for from fan's contributions. I think we need to wait to see what is going to happen with this hub idea, before we start thinking of raising any funds for ground improvements.


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