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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:38 pm 
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Darlopartisan wrote:
loan_star wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
tezza wrote:
On first glance difficult to see how we would fit into this plan. Has as been said appears all about MPRFC and the World cup.
One interesting note on the Northern Echo feature is the name Richard Upshall appearing again, strikingly similar to the vision he was proposing a few year back, but in a different location. Perhaps DRC missed a trick for a fast buck ?


This seems more ambitious than his plan, which the council said was too ambitious


Thats the bug bear for me, a plan that could have been ideal for us was rejected for reasons that now appear not to matter when its Mowden that are proposing them. Plus DBC have found £50k for the feasibility study but left the car park at Blackwell with only one way in and out.


To be fare you only get the council you vote for , so if there is an appetite for it, change it, they are only there by public vote, simple.


But the lemmings can't see past the red rosette. These numpties know they are a shoe in because they represent Labour.


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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:43 pm 
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But it's not only the elected members, it's senior officers... can't vote them in or out


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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:15 pm 
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The developers behind the sports village are ESRG PROPERTY DEVELOPMENTS PLC

Company recently registered on Compaies House is https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10673117

Nothing community oriented behind this just a professional rugby club burning through cash and a profit oriented developer.


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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:55 pm 
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There's a lot of flapping on here and a HATE the victim mentality that some have taken. It would have been inappropriate for Mowden to release a statement mentioning the football club at this stage.

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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:58 pm 
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SwansQuaker83 wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
PierremontQuaker03 wrote:
Another question is - where does this leave Darlington Rugby Club - could they potentially leave to go to this Rugby hub and Blackwell Meddows be left for football.


Now that's an interesting thought!


They own the club house and first team pitch... wonder how much they'd want for it... we can level the club and build a big stand!! [emoji38]
That's never going to happen. If DRFC moved further under Mowden's shadow they might as well close down, there would be next to no demand for their club.

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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:33 pm 
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liddle_4_ever wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
PierremontQuaker03 wrote:
Another question is - where does this leave Darlington Rugby Club - could they potentially leave to go to this Rugby hub and Blackwell Meddows be left for football.


Now that's an interesting thought!


They own the club house and first team pitch... wonder how much they'd want for it... we can level the club and build a big stand!! [emoji38]
That's never going to happen. If DRFC moved further under Mowden's shadow they might as well close down, there would be next to no demand for their club.

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We are the only thing keeping DRFC from going bust, so they need us as tenants! They do have a block about going in with Mowden, but this is an historical anachronism and not very rational. Financial deprivation is the only thing that will make them change their position.


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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:42 pm 
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Just going to put this out there. What if the rugby clubs merged to make this more feasible and DRFC wanted to sell BM to help fund this? Surely that land could be worth a few bob and a developer would pay this? It’s a bit of a wild suggestion but probably something that would need to be thought about just incase and what would become of the football club if it did happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:44 pm 
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I don't think it's theirs to sell.


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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:55 pm 
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LoidLucan wrote:
I don't think it's theirs to sell.

I thought some it was and the rest was under a rental agreement from the council. Land Reg search needed!


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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:21 pm 
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My mistake.... according to an earlier thread:

The rugby club are the registered owners of the land according to the land register.


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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:54 pm 
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jjljks wrote:
liddle_4_ever wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
PierremontQuaker03 wrote:
Another question is - where does this leave Darlington Rugby Club - could they potentially leave to go to this Rugby hub and Blackwell Meddows be left for football.


Now that's an interesting thought!


They own the club house and first team pitch... wonder how much they'd want for it... we can level the club and build a big stand!! [emoji38]
That's never going to happen. If DRFC moved further under Mowden's shadow they might as well close down, there would be next to no demand for their club.

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We are the only thing keeping DRFC from going bust, so they need us as tenants! They do have a block about going in with Mowden, but this is an historical anachronism and not very rational. Financial deprivation is the only thing that will make them change their position.


It's entirely rational! It would be like some Sunday league team merging with us! It would only be a merger in name.

Everyone has to remember that the rugby clubs are more than just their 1st team. I believe there's demand in our town for about 2.5 teams for each age group. What would happen to them if the clubs were to merge? Mowden U13s A & B? There wouldn't be enough space at Mowden for that amount of kids to train.

Also DRFC is one of the oldest rugby clubs in the world, it would be a major shame if they closed/merged/disappeared. Plus there's no appetite for this from either club.

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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:58 pm 
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liddle_4_ever wrote:
There's a lot of flapping on here and a HATE the victim mentality that some have taken. It would have been inappropriate for Mowden to release a statement mentioning the football club at this stage.

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Nail on head - especially about the victim mentality. Some on this thread are embarrassing themselves with their conspiracy theories and flapping.

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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:09 pm 
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There is a lot of history between DRFC & DMP and I doubt they'd ever combine the 2 clubs. I think DRFC would rather go out of business, than team up with DMP.


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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:29 pm 
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liddle_4_ever wrote:
There's a lot of flapping on here and a HATE the victim mentality that some have taken. It would have been inappropriate for Mowden to release a statement mentioning the football club at this stage.

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Well I for one am flapping, for this is our only chance of getting away from BM,
don't get me wrong, this was our only hope at the time, but our long term future is not at BM (under the currant rules regs whatever) So if we can some how form part of this sports village then I am all for it, obviously depending on the proposal.

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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:13 pm 
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The previous development plans for Blackwell by the R. U group did not get knocked back by the council, the council said they could not help fund it,
It was pointed out to the said council that the RU GROUP, did not want or need any funding from the said council but it was still rejected. The funds were to come from the commercial sector were the plans given the go ahead. The same plans which have now been given the green light at a different venue with a different company fronting it, very strange. We will have to wait and see what happens next.


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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:00 am 
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onewayup wrote:
The previous development plans for Blackwell by the R. U group did not get knocked back by the council, the council said they could not help fund it,
It was pointed out to the said council that the RU GROUP, did not want or need any funding from the said council but it was still rejected. The funds were to come from the commercial sector were the plans given the go ahead. The same plans which have now been given the green light at a different venue with a different company fronting it, very strange. We will have to wait and see what happens next.


Anyone at Mowden Park with a nose for funding would have gone sniffing after such monies. Not such a surprise that our knackerbrained council failed to see the potential benefits to the whole of the town, not just DRFC & DFC


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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:34 am 
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Looks like the main issues are the playing surface (4G) and playing schedules, football having to take priority over rugby fixtures


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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:46 am 
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Darlopartisan wrote:
Looks like the main issues are the playing surface (4G) and playing schedules, football having to take priority over rugby fixtures


Yep as Mowden own the ground they aren't going to play second fiddle to a tenant football team..

It just shows how lucky we were with Bishop and Darlington Rugby Club...


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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:05 am 
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So, it looks like the idea is to replace the turf at the Arena with a 4G pitch and we could possibly share with Mowden Park but as it stands we would not have priority over schedules (which would kill it off immediately), not to mention that 4G is not allowed in the Football League as it stands. Also it would seem highly unlikely that income from Mowden Park's 4G would benefit the football club at all. DJ has already said that this is the kind of lucrative revenue stream that we should be seeking in the future, having a 4G pitch for revenue purposes but with the football club continuing to play on a grass pitch.
Maybe things could change during further talks but as it stands the "sports village" is looking a bit of a non-starter in terms of our requirements for the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:13 am 
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So it looks to me that this sporting village is all about underpinning DMPFCs finances with extra income streams from the 4G pitch, housing, retail and other stuff including our tenancy income.

Reality check - if we have a part in this it is nothing more than moving from one groundshare to another.

The rugby loving council are hoping that DMPFC become sort of rugby big bollocks and eventually make the Arena viable. Shame they never thought the same about the football club.

I see nothing in the latest Northern Echo article about us getting our own ground on site, our role in this sporting village looks like nothing more than moving back to the Arena and playing there.

As stated in the article, there are many hurdles, the two main ones being the 4G pitch which we would share and fixture precedence - we would have to be 1st priority. Without even taking into account the opinion of the fan base or the fate of DRFC, this is currently a non runner for those two reasons.

A couple of years ago when a ground share was mooted, there was little appetite for this from either side. I was one of the few that would go back to the Arena as long as it was financially viable.

We also have the problem if we moved to the Arena about the deal we have at Blackwell - surely we would have to pay up our 20 years and also repay football grants. It would cost us a cool million I reckon, just to move.

On the other hand, it looks virtually impossible to develop BM to league standard because of the pipe, and also the need to develop the club house side - which I'm sure that the rugby club won't want.

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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:19 am 
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I'm lost as to what people actually want anymore.

Concern 1 - Blackwell Meadows cannot be got up to Football League standards.
It was detailed in the plans for the temporary stand that the mechanism to get it up to standard was being explored but ultimately anything would require Rugby Club support. The Sporting Village clearly details a 4G pitch so it is simply not eligible for FL so how is that a better answer than BM?

Concern 2 - We cannot generate our own revenues. I fail to see how renting facilities at a venture that is being developed for profit by developers in anyway will see us get a greater share of our revenues than we currently get at BM. Given we will be sharing with a rugby club who are the clear focus of the development we will be third in line (developers -> rugby club -> us)

Concern 3. The rugby club are hostile / don't want us there. Again I am not entirely sure I see how a Sporting Village concept and sharing with another rugby club fixes this.

Personally, I think there is more opportunity for us to maintain our identity at Blackwell Meadows. I feel that we as fans have an awful lot more control over what happens if that is the case, and whilst the ground may not be perfect as long as it meets our requirements to compete then it is the best option for us.

The whole the rugby club wouldn't be there without us, they must be worried. It just comes across as pathetic, childish and spiteful.


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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:30 am 
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There would have to be some bloody big rabbits pulled out of hats for us to be tagged onto the rugby village plans.


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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:04 am 
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If we were to have our own stadium as part of the plans, then it's a different matter. But the Arena, but made even worse with a 4G pitch? Probably would be the end of me going to home games frequently. And I don't see how we'd be any better off in terms of off-pitch revenue - renting one rugby club's stadium vs renting a different rugby club's stadium. Of course, it'd be easier in terms of infrastructure, but not if a 4g pitch is essential to the sporting village, as effectively we'd have a conference stadium and no more, which is what we can easily(ish) achieve at BM.

And surely this sporting village plan completely scuppers any chance we have of getting a 4G pitch in the town for us to make money from - there surely isn't the demand for 2 more 4Gs in the town.

The more I think about it, I wonder if the optimal solution is for us to rent another plot at BM. DRFC still get rent from us, we can move away from the pipe and existing DRFC structures which are restricting our development space, and we would have our own facility. We already own 2 sides of stands - we would need to raise the cash for a substantial 'main stand', but then we'd have our own decent enough football league standard stadium.

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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:20 am 
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LoidLucan wrote:
My mistake.... according to an earlier thread:

The rugby club are the registered owners of the land according to the land register.

All or part of the land?


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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:30 am 
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I can't imagine what the cost of moving two stands and building a huge fit for purpose main stand would be. Surely it's better to wait and see what's on the table with the sporting village concept-there may be a cracking small ground that's exactly what we need? Can't we access some more funding if we move up to the next level? That's when we should be thinking about next steps.....


Last edited by don'tbuythesun on Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:32 am 
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Land register says land lyig to the south east of Grange Road, Blackwell Meadows.


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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:42 am 
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Quakerz wrote:

We also have the problem if we moved to the Arena about the deal we have at Blackwell - surely we would have to pay up our 20 years and also repay football grants. It would cost us a cool million I reckon, just to move.

On the other hand, it looks virtually impossible to develop BM to league standard because of the pipe, and also the need to develop the club house side - which I'm sure that the rugby club won't want.


If the pipe is the main reason why we cant get BM up to league standard then why spend a million moving when that same million will move the pipe?
I for one wouldnt be interested in sharing the arena. Hate the place tbh!


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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:47 am 
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al_quaker wrote:
If we were to have our own stadium as part of the plans, then it's a different matter. But the Arena, but made even worse with a 4G pitch? Probably would be the end of me going to home games frequently. And I don't see how we'd be any better off in terms of off-pitch revenue - renting one rugby club's stadium vs renting a different rugby club's stadium. Of course, it'd be easier in terms of infrastructure, but not if a 4g pitch is essential to the sporting village, as effectively we'd have a conference stadium and no more, which is what we can easily(ish) achieve at BM.

And surely this sporting village plan completely scuppers any chance we have of getting a 4G pitch in the town for us to make money from - there surely isn't the demand for 2 more 4Gs in the town.

The more I think about it, I wonder if the optimal solution is for us to rent another plot at BM. DRFC still get rent from us, we can move away from the pipe and existing DRFC structures which are restricting our development space, and we would have our own facility. We already own 2 sides of stands - we would need to raise the cash for a substantial 'main stand', but then we'd have our own decent enough football league standard stadium.


This for me is the best solution, our own bit of land to do with as and when we can afford it.

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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:09 pm 
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poppyfield wrote:
al_quaker wrote:
If we were to have our own stadium as part of the plans, then it's a different matter. But the Arena, but made even worse with a 4G pitch? Probably would be the end of me going to home games frequently. And I don't see how we'd be any better off in terms of off-pitch revenue - renting one rugby club's stadium vs renting a different rugby club's stadium. Of course, it'd be easier in terms of infrastructure, but not if a 4g pitch is essential to the sporting village, as effectively we'd have a conference stadium and no more, which is what we can easily(ish) achieve at BM.

And surely this sporting village plan completely scuppers any chance we have of getting a 4G pitch in the town for us to make money from - there surely isn't the demand for 2 more 4Gs in the town.

The more I think about it, I wonder if the optimal solution is for us to rent another plot at BM. DRFC still get rent from us, we can move away from the pipe and existing DRFC structures which are restricting our development space, and we would have our own facility. We already own 2 sides of stands - we would need to raise the cash for a substantial 'main stand', but then we'd have our own decent enough football league standard stadium.


This for me is the best solution, our own bit of land to do with as and when we can afford it.
That was the original plan

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 Post subject: Re: Sporting Village
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:21 pm 
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Yes, we would do well to buy say one of the training pitches behind the main pitch, but away from the pipe and bring over our beloved Tin Shed & new seated stands. Perhaps negotiate a compromise offer on the lease, plus car parking use but we could build our own clubhouse & new floodlights. Definitely cannot afford it just now, so keep saving and praying for miracles. In the meantime, sit tight and wait while the Board keep talking to all parties, especially the fans. :thumbup:


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