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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:30 am 
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I agree. Gramps has got this entire thread bang on. Apart from the not laughing at Gray bit.

Too many people buried their head in the sand regarding the sustainability of the budget and were brainwashed by reports that Gray had never gone over his budget. That may be so, but if your budget keeps getting increased every time you pipe up about your lack of spending power, then you're not going to go over it.

Christ we nearly folded about 3 times due to not having enough funds and everybody was too blind to see why - it was always bad luck, or postponements, or legacy debt, or whatever - us fans always had an excuse to justify yet another mid season embarrassing cash call. But nobody saw the elephant in the room until the past season - and even then, only a few did.

The ex manger and a great proportion of the fanbase were too wrapped up in getting back up the leagues as soon as possible, and fuck the cost, it'll come from somewhere, right?

I could never understand why there was so much of a hurry myself. If it took 10 years to get to the conference (and it still might, judging by the strength of the current league) and it was done without any more drama and within a reasonable budget which allowed us to also develop infrastructure, then I would have taken that right from day one.

We must never allow a manager to be so influential as Gray, ever again - it is OUR club and the manager is there to manage the team and do as he's told, we are after all his employer. If the manager isn't happy with his working conditions or budget, then he can look for another job - something which Gray thankfully did in the end.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:56 am 
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I might be many things Gramps, but spineless is certainly not one of them. In fact, there is probably something quite ironic about someone hiding behind their keyboard typing that. The passive-aggressive nature of your posts are so, so tedious.

You can carry on making accusations & conjecture behind a keyboard, I really don’t mind.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:58 am 
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Darlofan97 wrote:
I might be many things Gramps, but spineless is certainly not one of them. In fact, there is probably something quite ironic about someone hiding behind their keyboard typing that. The passive-aggressive nature of your posts are so, so tedious.

You can carry on making accusations & conjecture behind a keyboard, I really don’t mind.

How do I like this post :eh:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:18 am 
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Darlofan97 wrote:
I might be many things Gramps, but spineless is certainly not one of them. In fact, there is probably something quite ironic about someone hiding behind their keyboard typing that. The passive-aggressive nature of your posts are so, so tedious.

You can carry on making accusations & conjecture behind a keyboard, I really don’t mind.


Fascinating. I make a series of detailed counter-arguments to your flimsy insistence that everything with Gray was all fine and dandy and as it should be.
And you respond with more ad hominem attacks.

The evidence is all there for everyone to see. We weren't sustainable, we were overspending and wasting money on unnecessary bit-part players when our priorities should have been elsewhere.

Refusing to acknowledge that, in the face of all the evidence (including our own current manager), because you're too weak to admit you're wrong is spineless.

As for typing on a keyboard, I shouldn't really need to point out you're also typing behind a username online, as is everyone on this site and beyond. It's the medium we have available to us. It doesn't make anyone on here spineless just because we use a medium available to us. There's nothing I've said here I wouldn't point out to anyone's face in person.

P.S. By "leave it there", evidently you actually mean reply to my first response as soon as you read it.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:22 am 
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AndyPark wrote:
Darlofan97 wrote:
I might be many things Gramps, but spineless is certainly not one of them. In fact, there is probably something quite ironic about someone hiding behind their keyboard typing that. The passive-aggressive nature of your posts are so, so tedious.

You can carry on making accusations & conjecture behind a keyboard, I really don’t mind.

How do I like this post :eh:
Andy - do you ever actually come up with your own criticisms and ideas? Or do you just hide behind everyone else because you can't come up with your own?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:25 am 
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Gramps, I didn’t call you spineless for using the internet, or using a keyboard. I explained that there was something quite ironic about someone sitting behind their computer screen calling someone else spineless, when I highly doubt you would say to anyone’s face in person. Am I right?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:42 am 
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Darlofan97 wrote:
Gramps, I didn’t call you spineless for using the internet, or using a keyboard. I explained that there was something quite ironic about someone sitting behind their computer screen calling someone else spineless, when I highly doubt you would say to anyone’s face in person. Am I right?


We're discussing it on this forum, so that's where I've done it. It's the medium available to us. There's no irony in that whatsoever. If we were having this conversation face-to-face, I would call you spineless face-to-face. Genuinely.

Now you said you didn't want this thread ruined, yet you've made repeated criticisms of me, rather than my arguments, so I've responded in kind. At the risk of sounding childish, you started all this silliness with your unnecessary last paragraph in your initial reply about refusing to say anything else to me.

So let's both grow up a little and keep the discussion on topic. Discussion about who's a keyboard warrior etc really looks embarrassing for both of us.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:52 am 
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Gramps, if you would like to call me spineless to my face then I would love to have that conversation. I didn’t get personal on character, you did. Unfortunately I believe that you will continue to hide behind your keyboard, patronising others behind a screen.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:13 am 
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Darlofan97 wrote:
Gramps, if you would like to call me spineless to my face then I would love to have that conversation. I didn’t get personal on character, you did. Unfortunately I believe that you will continue to hide behind your keyboard, patronising others behind a screen.


Believe whatever you want to believe. But it's telling you're more interested in launching personal attacks and criticisms on me than defending your own arguments. You've spent more time talking about me than your own arguments. A neat deflection to score points, because your own position has little evidence to support it.

I suspect even you realise you've lost the argument on Gray and sustainability. No one believes he had no influence on the budget, and everyone now recognises money wasted on players like Fenwick etc last season could have been put to better use.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:56 am 
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Quakerz wrote:
I agree. Gramps has got this entire thread bang on. Apart from the not laughing at Gray bit.


I have to say Gray's sudden demise did bring a smile to my face, still does in fact - does that make me a bad person? :shock:

It's a shame this thread has gone a bit argumentative, this happened after Spen got involved. He asked a reasonable question - ignored the sensible answers then things went downhill, however to me the Gray thing is relatively simple......

Gray brought us success.
But became too powerful.
He couldn't accept the fact that he had to slow down for a while.
And he wanted the tail to wag the dog.
He caused bother and team form dipped.
He then handed in his notice.
In a way that screwed us over.
The club accepted straight away.
The club were pleased to see the back of him.
In less than a year Gray is shown to be not as brilliant as he thinks he is.
And gets the sack from York.
Chuckle.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:06 pm 
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Quakerz wrote:
I agree. Gramps has got this entire thread bang on. Apart from the not laughing at Gray bit.

Too many people buried their head in the sand regarding the sustainability of the budget and were brainwashed by reports that Gray had never gone over his budget. That may be so, but if your budget keeps getting increased every time you pipe up about your lack of spending power, then you're not going to go over it.

Christ we nearly folded about 3 times due to not having enough funds and everybody was too blind to see why - it was always bad luck, or postponements, or legacy debt, or whatever - us fans always had an excuse to justify yet another mid season embarrassing cash call. But nobody saw the elephant in the room until the past season - and even then, only a few did.

The ex manger and a great proportion of the fanbase were too wrapped up in getting back up the leagues as soon as possible, and fuck the cost, it'll come from somewhere, right?

I could never understand why there was so much of a hurry myself. If it took 10 years to get to the conference (and it still might, judging by the strength of the current league) and it was done without any more drama and within a reasonable budget which allowed us to also develop infrastructure, then I would have taken that right from day one.

We must never allow a manager to be so influential as Gray, ever again - it is OUR club and the manager is there to manage the team and do as he's told, we are after all his employer. If the manager isn't happy with his working conditions or budget, then he can look for another job - something which Gray thankfully did in the end.


All of this.

And for those talking about the manner of Gray's departure - that didn't really bother me. It happens. Genuinely, about 99.5% of the reason why I'm glad that MG failed at York were his comments about us (and lack of comments about the fans) after he'd left.

All he needed to do was one interview, probably on day 1/2 in his new job, saying: "Darlington was an unbelievable journey, I learnt a lot, the fans were fantastic in many ways and I wish them well for the future, but now I've got a new job here to get on with..." and I personally wouldn't have wished him any ill will there.

Given I've always liked York City (the club and the place - me and Mrs b66 got married there...) I probably would have welcomed him doing well there, to be honest, had he acted with a bit of class after he'd left us.

However, despite his achievements and the excitement that his tenure gave us from 2012 to last year, my view of him is tarnished due to his words/behaviour from about May 2017 onwards, all starting with that fans forum and the Raj Singh nonsense.

Where he winds up next I have no real interest in, to be honest.

We just need to concentrate on getting a win on Saturday.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:13 pm 
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Darlofan97 wrote:
Gramps, if you would like to call me spineless to my face then I would love to have that conversation. I didn’t get personal on character, you did. Unfortunately I believe that you will continue to hide behind your keyboard, patronising others behind a screen.


Sounds like someone has been called out ... has he got cahounhas or wee tiny bollocks


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:17 pm 
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tezza wrote:
Darlofan97 wrote:
Gramps, if you would like to call me spineless to my face then I would love to have that conversation. I didn’t get personal on character, you did. Unfortunately I believe that you will continue to hide behind your keyboard, patronising others behind a screen.


Sounds like someone has been called out ... has he got cahounhas or wee tiny bollocks

He won’t meet anyone face to face :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:03 pm 
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This got really boring really quickly...and that saying something coming from me


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:44 pm 
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lo36789 wrote:
This got really boring really quickly...and that saying something coming from me


We just need to keep on topic, personally I found Beatroute66"s offering very good.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:56 pm 
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beatroute66 wrote:
Quakerz wrote:
I agree. Gramps has got this entire thread bang on. Apart from the not laughing at Gray bit.

Too many people buried their head in the sand regarding the sustainability of the budget and were brainwashed by reports that Gray had never gone over his budget. That may be so, but if your budget keeps getting increased every time you pipe up about your lack of spending power, then you're not going to go over it.

Christ we nearly folded about 3 times due to not having enough funds and everybody was too blind to see why - it was always bad luck, or postponements, or legacy debt, or whatever - us fans always had an excuse to justify yet another mid season embarrassing cash call. But nobody saw the elephant in the room until the past season - and even then, only a few did.

The ex manger and a great proportion of the fanbase were too wrapped up in getting back up the leagues as soon as possible, and fuck the cost, it'll come from somewhere, right?

I could never understand why there was so much of a hurry myself. If it took 10 years to get to the conference (and it still might, judging by the strength of the current league) and it was done without any more drama and within a reasonable budget which allowed us to also develop infrastructure, then I would have taken that right from day one.

We must never allow a manager to be so influential as Gray, ever again - it is OUR club and the manager is there to manage the team and do as he's told, we are after all his employer. If the manager isn't happy with his working conditions or budget, then he can look for another job - something which Gray thankfully did in the end.


All of this.

And for those talking about the manner of Gray's departure - that didn't really bother me. It happens. Genuinely, about 99.5% of the reason why I'm glad that MG failed at York were his comments about us (and lack of comments about the fans) after he'd left.

All he needed to do was one interview, probably on day 1/2 in his new job, saying: "Darlington was an unbelievable journey, I learnt a lot, the fans were fantastic in many ways and I wish them well for the future, but now I've got a new job here to get on with..." and I personally wouldn't have wished him any ill will there.

Given I've always liked York City (the club and the place - me and Mrs b66 got married there...) I probably would have welcomed him doing well there, to be honest, had he acted with a bit of class after he'd left us.

However, despite his achievements and the excitement that his tenure gave us from 2012 to last year, my view of him is tarnished due to his words/behaviour from about May 2017 onwards, all starting with that fans forum and the Raj Singh nonsense.

Where he winds up next I have no real interest in, to be honest.

We just need to concentrate on getting a win on Saturday.

Yep, summed up pretty neatly, b66. Good work :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:44 pm 
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I wasn't that bothered about his lack of praising the fans when he left. What got me was his insults in the Chorley programme notes just before the YCFC trust vote. He urged people to vote for McGill or York would turn into another Darlington with a 'fan-owned, bucket-rattling mentality'. Then when the Trust voted against McGill he totally changed his opinion and said 'We need to stop the overspending'. Ironically McGill, who Gray openly supported before the Chorley game, then did the dirty on Gray and sacked him after an inappropriately low amount of games this season.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:25 am 
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Vodka_Vic wrote:
I wasn't that bothered about his lack of praising the fans when he left. What got me was his insults in the Chorley programme notes just before the YCFC trust vote. He urged people to vote for McGill or York would turn into another Darlington with a 'fan-owned, bucket-rattling mentality'. Then when the Trust voted against McGill he totally changed his opinion and said 'We need to stop the overspending'. Ironically McGill, who Gray openly supported before the Chorley game, then did the dirty on Gray and sacked him after an inappropriately low amount of games this season.


Exactly - that "bucket rattling " is one of the things i'm most proud of. To ridicule it when it sums up how deep the fans dug to keep things going was just unforgivable :cry:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:44 am 
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Seems like somebody was talking to him just the other night.. :roll:

http://hufc1908.proboards.com/thread/10 ... lo-tonight


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:55 am 
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Got to say Gramps and Spyman were both uncomfortable last year when Gray was signing players and I am sure some others were to. Personally I felt the board were sticking Gray to a budget and I am sure they were, however hindsight for me suggests Gray had clearly pushed for a budget that put us into a high risk category if our attendances dropped.

Well attendances dropped, commercial has always been our achilles heel in terms of not achieving similar levels to other clubs and performances on the pitch were dire. This basically put us in poor position financially and Wright came in done a really good job in steadying the ship on the pitch whilst financially balancing things off the pitch.

I don't really care about Gray he brought some great days/nights and got us up the leagues quite quickly which was what he was asked to achieve, however the day he tried to bring Singh back to the table made me realise he didn't understand why I and many others had put hard earned money into this club, it certainly wasn't to hand it back over to Singh so Gray could continue his spending cash to earn achievements/massage his ego further.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:14 am 
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Sussex07 wrote:
Seems like somebody was talking to him just the other night.. :roll:

http://hufc1908.proboards.com/thread/10 ... lo-tonight


that Poolie who wants to kick Gray in the nuts wants to be careful - he could be their next boss :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:41 am 
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Sussex07 wrote:
Seems like somebody was talking to him just the other night.. :roll:

http://hufc1908.proboards.com/thread/10 ... lo-tonight


"Was talking to Martin gray at the game and he said it was the worst thing that happened at Darlo and York and we should be thankful it never happened at pools..."

Yeah - because all those previous years where we were owned by 'successful businessmen' really panned out well, didn't they?

Dickhead.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:46 am 
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beatroute66 wrote:

All he needed to do was one interview, probably on day 1/2 in his new job, saying: "Darlington was an unbelievable journey, I learnt a lot, the fans were fantastic in many ways and I wish them well for the future, but now I've got a new job here to get on with..."


which is why I think he'll struggle to get another manager's job. should any club want to take a punt on him, I bet it'll be as a coach with a brief to stick to basic footballing / coaching topics if he ever gets put in front of the media again.

we all know the bog standard comments / platitudes that get fed to the media when players / managers leave clubs. And you can more or less read into the truth behind such statements.

Perhaps MG's next step is to attend a media awareness course.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:04 pm 
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super_les_mcjannet wrote:
commercial has always been our achilles heel in terms of not achieving similar levels to other clubs

Complete change of topic, but I see on the (superb) new official site that we're advertising for a commercial salesperson working on commission, which could be a step in the right direction

https://darlingtonfc.co.uk/news/sales-people-required-1

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:47 pm 
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I'm not suggesting this would or should ever happen but the thought occurred to me today that now Gray's been neutralised, there's nothing to stop Gregan or Big Bri coming back in some capacity.

Comfortably_numb wrote:
which is why I think he'll struggle to get another manager's job. should any club want to take a punt on him,


I really can see Gray turning up at Spennymoor if they ever feel the need for a change. I mean the job's ideal for him - he only lives round the corner :D

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Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:41 pm 
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theoriginalfatcat wrote:
I'm not suggesting this would or should ever happen but the thought occurred to me today that now Gray's been neutralised, there's nothing to stop Gregan or Big Bri coming back in some capacity.

Comfortably_numb wrote:
which is why I think he'll struggle to get another manager's job. should any club want to take a punt on him,


I really can see Gray turning up at Spennymoor if they ever feel the need for a change. I mean the job's ideal for him - he only lives round the corner :D

Gregan would be good, to replace our current defensive coach Titus Bramble.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:25 pm 
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lo36789 wrote:
This got really boring really quickly...and that saying something coming from me


Spot on; I agree. And when it went Latin with the ad hominem post I lost the will to live. I'll be glad when this post has expired, preferably quam celerrime.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:29 pm 
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Feethams 1966 wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
This got really boring really quickly...and that saying something coming from me


Spot on; I agree. And when it went Latin with the ad hominem post I lost the will to live. I'll be glad when this post has expired, preferably quam celerrime.

Hehehe, very good.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:16 am 
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theoriginalfatcat wrote:
I'm not suggesting this would or should ever happen but the thought occurred to me today that now Gray's been neutralised, there's nothing to stop Gregan or Big Bri coming back in some capacity.

Comfortably_numb wrote:
which is why I think he'll struggle to get another manager's job. should any club want to take a punt on him,


I really can see Gray turning up at Spennymoor if they ever feel the need for a change. I mean the job's ideal for him - he only lives round the corner :D

Big Bri went to West Auckland couple of weeks ago and is still involved with MG with College BTEC course.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:28 am 
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Big Bri of course is a former Spennymoor assistant as well. Left them to join us.

Could definitely see the dream team pairing up at Brewery Field if Jason Aimless can't pick up results.

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