Darlo Uncovered

We really could do with getting something out of Monday's game because Alfreton's 8ft centre forward Tom Denton will likely make mincemeat of our fragile defence next Saturday.
There are inconsistent results in this league but it was the manner of today's abject surrender that was most worrying and it suggested issues behind the scenes.

One problem if we did sack Wright is where would it leave us squad wise? We've got players from all over the place, several only signed because they know TW.

You've got a car full coming from here, you've got a car full coming from there, could it be that there are groups within the group instead of one group?

It's always a bad sign to see players shouting at each other on the pitch as well.

Obviously talk of the sack is premature but today was every bit as bad as South Shields last year, and that was the point that some of us knew that Gray had hit his limit of managerial ability.

Well today was woeful. We had no game plan, and I can’t really remember any patterns of play going forward. In the middle we looked outnumbered, we couldn’t deal with the press across the park and they just kept getting in behind time and time again. Maddison kept the score down to 3 and I really feel for him at the moment.

It just seemed all slow and poor to be honest, no organisation, no learning from the short-corners, no winning second-balls. Altrincham really were good today IMO, they mixed it up and looked dangerous. Yes, we made it easy, but on that showing they will be the surprise package this season.

It’s obvious with Collins’s reaction to TW’s interview that there is some unrest between the two. You’d have thought he would be the only player with angst as this is very much TW’s squad (and a small squad at that), but comments made in regards to body language and TW feeling that the players have let him down really doesn’t sound good at all.

We blew Brackley away, and had decent results/performances against Spenny & Blyth, but today just threw it back to the performances against South Shields and Chorley. I really want it to work for TW. IMO his manner, attitude and understanding of our fan-ownership is a breath of fresh air but we really need the results. It’s fair enough that people will have their say on tactics, but if he can deliver form along the lines of Alfreton (A) onwards from last season - W8 - D6 - L3 - then we have the right manager at the right time for the club taking into account the transition phase we’re in as we’re still growing and developing infrastructure.

Maddison did well, Elliot ran himself into the ground again, Nicholson tried to make things happen and Thompson tried to get himself into the game. Aside from that it’s really difficult to pick the positives. I think at 3pm everyone felt optimism - decent crowd of 1,415 - but fast forward two hours and we’re reflecting on really a farcical chain of events.

LoidLucan wrote:We really could do with getting something out of Monday's game because Alfreton's 8ft centre forward Tom Denton will likely make mincemeat of our fragile defence next Saturday.
There are inconsistent results in this league but it was the manner of today's abject surrender that was most worrying and it suggested issues behind the scenes.

Totally agree. Wasn’t there today but it sounded dire on DFR. IMO Syers has to play. Last year it seemed to work having him just behind Styche. Now we have two ‘proper’ CFs it’s more tricky. Can you have a Syers/Wheatley partnership or does that still leave us light on protection for the back 4. Last year’s CBs had a mistake in them but we had Turnbull to add cover and to start attacks. Can Wheatley adopt that role so as to allow Syers to get forward. The front 4 picks itself but have we replaced CM/CH/GK with similar quality? So far I’d say not but it’s still early days in a forward-fronted fixture list

PierremontQuaker03 wrote:If we have a bad egg in the camp and its Dom Collins then he needs to go. He was already contracted wasn't he for this season before TW arrived, correct me if Im wrong?
Football is fairly Black and White, either you respect the manager or you dont. We've had a few players that have left that seem to have had a problem with the current staff but it shows lack of professionalism on their part by mouthing off.

Just had a quick look at the Altrincham website as I wanted to get a bit of background on the manager, as I was just checking it wasn't the Phil Parkinson from the football league - and it shows the following staff:
Manager: Phil Parkinson
Assistant Manager: Neil Sorvel
Coach: Chris Parkes
Goalkeeping Coach: Ian Senior
Analyst: Mark Bushell

This shows me we are a bit light on the staff front. Do we need another coach and do we have a Match Analyst providing info on the opposition?

Isn’t that what Atkinson did for MG?

Quakerz wrote:One problem if we did sack Wright is where would it leave us squad wise? We've got players from all over the place, several only signed because they know TW.

I think this issue gets over done. I don't think it would change much - the players will have contracts/agreements to play for us and we'd expect those to be honoured.

And if they're only here because TW is here, we're probably better off without them. I'd rather they were here because they want to play for us, not for just the manager. To be fair, beyond Styche and Thommo, I wouldn't be that fussed at any departures.

But as most agree, talk of getting rid of TW is very premature right now.

Quakers83 wrote:Well today was woeful. We had no game plan, and I can’t really remember any patterns of play going forward. In the middle we looked outnumbered, we couldn’t deal with the press across the park and they just kept getting in behind time and time again. Maddison kept the score down to 3 and I really feel for him at the moment.

It just seemed all slow and poor to be honest, no organisation, no learning from the short-corners, no winning second-balls. Altrincham really were good today IMO, they mixed it up and looked dangerous. Yes, we made it easy, but on that showing they will be the surprise package this season.

It’s obvious with Collins’s reaction to TW’s interview that there is some unrest between the two. You’d have thought he would be the only player with angst as this is very much TW’s squad (and a small squad at that), but comments made in regards to body language and TW feeling that the players have let him down really doesn’t sound good at all.

We blew Brackley away, and had decent results/performances against Spenny & Blyth, but today just threw it back to the performances against South Shields and Chorley. I really want it to work for TW. IMO his manner, attitude and understanding of our fan-ownership is a breath of fresh air but we really need the results. It’s fair enough that people will have their say on tactics, but if he can deliver form along the lines of Alfreton (A) onwards from last season (A) - W8 - D6 - L3 - then we have the right manager at the right time for the club taking into account the transition phase we’re in as we’re still growing and developing infrastructure.

Maddison did well, Elliot ran himself into the ground again, Nicholson tried to make things happen and Thompson really tried to get himself into the game.

The Collins situation is interesting and I guess none of us know the full story yet. I do find it odd a player disappointed to be subbed last week would hide an injury why? Why not just tell TW the truth, I doubt Collins is a Shrinking violet. The saga a continues.....Even before today with such a small squad I personally on balance did not see the point in sending Vaulks on loan for what is clearly a pronlem position for us.

feethamslad wrote:This must be the poorest display that I've seen from Darlo in a long, long, time. It wasn't so much the defeat but the manner in which we lost - we went down with no fight at all. The team seemed slow, unfit and as though they had never played together before. Altrincham by contrast were competent, fluid and had a well executed game plan.

I'm unsure what has happened after two great games against Brackley and Spennymoor to the two abject performaces against Kidderminster last week and Altrincham today. I'll be at Ashton on Monday - will be interesting to see the team that Tommy puts out.

Absolutely spot on. Instead of Fortress BM, we have turned it into every opposition team's favourite awayday

Darlogramps wrote:

tdk1 wrote:So how long do e expect wright to stay? We havent sacked a manager since steve staunton - at what point does that change?

Singh sacked Mark Cooper didn't he?

Either way, it was only two weeks ago we were stuffing Brackley, so I think talk of sacking Wright is premature for now (and that's coming from me!)

But today was dreadful and can't be repeated. As others say, the most worrying aspect was the players' body language. It suggests all is not well behind the scenes, which two weeks after that Brackley performance would be immensely concerning.

TW earned a chance to build his own team with those performances from Feb to April and that still stands for now. But many more repeats of today and that question will need to be revisited.

Couldn't agree more. The manager knows the situation best and will be under real pressure to turn things around.. We need to see that happening.

grimsbyquaker wrote:

PierremontQuaker03 wrote:If we have a bad egg in the camp and its Dom Collins then he needs to go. He was already contracted wasn't he for this season before TW arrived, correct me if Im wrong?
Football is fairly Black and White, either you respect the manager or you dont. We've had a few players that have left that seem to have had a problem with the current staff but it shows lack of professionalism on their part by mouthing off.

Just had a quick look at the Altrincham website as I wanted to get a bit of background on the manager, as I was just checking it wasn't the Phil Parkinson from the football league - and it shows the following staff:
Manager: Phil Parkinson
Assistant Manager: Neil Sorvel
Coach: Chris Parkes
Goalkeeping Coach: Ian Senior
Analyst: Mark Bushell

This shows me we are a bit light on the staff front. Do we need another coach and do we have a Match Analyst providing info on the opposition?

Isn’t that what Atkinson did for MG?

Feeling very deflated after today GQ. Am left with the feeling that maybe I was brainwashed into thinking that our squad was better than what it is. If you're told enough times that the squad is an improvement on last year then maybe it must be true. Eric Honecker would be proud. Anyway, will be there on Monday for a season defining game and maybe a late winner prompting a Barry Fry run.

What a truly awful game.

Not one of our players can be singled out for any credit, and our flair players, the ones that usually get things going were to me the worst offenders. I mean Thommo!! he just never turned up and was ineffective.

The team looked worn out, they looked half asleep, they looked like Spennymoor at the end of last season, or like the team that got outplayed at home by South Shields in that infamous FA Cup embarrassment

Our home form is of concern too, attendances will slip if T.W. doesn't a grip and get things up and running. We haven't won a home game since our snowy encounter with last seasons bottom team North Ferriby on March 17.

Yes we were absolutely pants today - however we have a bloody good squad who are still working how to gel together, let not press the panic button yet and get behind Tommy, Alan and the players:

Bit dangerous in the pre match warm up today. There were an awful lot of reckless balls pinging around at high speed.

jjljks wrote:Heard a rumour Collins asked for a transfer at HT so Tommy decided it was better to sub him directly.

Wheatley was an obvious massive loss to midfield where unforced errors abounded, not to mention Thommo's aberration in giving away the penalty, little in the way of getting first to any 50/50 ball then lacking in pace and creation not to mention winning tackles.

Usual cockup from officials with Lino missing the ball well over the line so should have been a corner for us, compounded when they swept up to other end to smash it into our net.

Looked slightly better in last 30 minutes with Ainge filling in for injured Galbraith /Collins in back four, Thommo dropping into middle with Syers linking and pace of Saunders up front, who hit crossbar. Maddison was repeatedly left to deal with one on one situations and did well to keep the score down to three. Could easily have been 1-7 and Alty were made to look like World Cup winners, with about 50 of their fans going home laughing whilst 1400 Darlo fans wondered about what went so wrong.

Can't remember hearing anyone getting MOTM award, probably Glover or Dunn for keeping the bench warm as certainly no Darlo player on the pitch deserved it

The ball was no where near over the line... Rose tinted glasses

And there was me getting excited about our first outing of the season, Ashton away....even talked some friends into coming. We'll still be there.

Can I be honest. I just don't see how this Kev Keegan football, I don't care about clean sheets cause we'll score more than them mantra will ever work long term (I accept because of the level of the league we will win some games because we will come up against teams as inconsistent as us). It just seems obvious to me that the blue print for success in this league is be solid. Chorley have been in and around the playoffs for the last 4/5 years. Every year they conceded pretty much the fewest goals in the league. But for the last few years they have struggled with scoring as many. This year they look free scoring and look where they are, top of the league.

It's not us losing games that worries me it's the way we conceded chances. 4-4-2 is leaving us far too open. It's making decent players look poor as other teams can just play through us at will.

Don't know the truth about the Collins situation so won't comment on that specifically. But Collins was no improvement on what we had last year when he was brought in. I said to a friend when at a game last year. That Gary Brown would move on in the summer and the only reason would be is because Collins still had a year of contract and he would be too hard to shift. Now, I don't think GB was the perfect player. But he was a leader and we are lacking them on the pitch. Similar to Turnbull we have not replaced him. No one in our squad plays like him shielding the defence and always offering an easy out ball allowing us to retain possession.

I don't think this is a bad squad. But tactically we seem schoolboy. I mean at Kiddy last week, who in their right minds goes down to 10 men on 17 mins and leaves 2 strikers (asks one to play LM) on the field when you're already getting over run in midfield? What did he think was going to happen? In that circumstance. You take off Styche put on a CM and play for the set pieces see what the likes of Ainge et al can get for you. I know we've got a great strike pairing for this league in Ainge and Styche. But it's no good if they have to score 4/5 a game to try and get us a result.

Tbh at the moment, I think a result on Monday would just paper over some cracks that the formation is too open. Until we find a formation that tightens our midfield and has us looking like keeping clean sheets then we have a problem.

I think for Ashton we need to do what we did post-Leamington last season - go 4-5-1 (or 4-2-3-1). That worked really well, there was a good transition between defence and attack, nobody really spoke about us being over-run and our form after Leamington was 7-4-3 IIRC.

Something along the lines of - Maddison; Trotman, Burn, Ainge, O’Hanlon; Thompson, Elliot, Syers, Hughes, Nicholson; Styche.

Elliot and Hughes as the two CM’s with Syers also dropping back-in but playing just off Styche. Thompson and Nicholson as the wide-players; and then your standard back four and goalkeeper.

That’s exactly how we set-up last season during our good run-in, apart from we had slightly different personnel. It looked something like - Pears; Trotman, Heaton, Galbraith, O’Hanlon; Thompson, Turnbull, Syers, Wheatley, Gillies; Styche.

For all having players like Styche, Ainge, Syers, Thompson and Nicholson gives you a great chance at one end, we need to start becoming resolute and organised. We’ve scored 10 goals in 6 games with 1 win to show for it. We’re going to places like Spennymoor and Kidderminster scoring 2 goals away from home and it’s not enough for 3pts.

Great post 83...totally agree. Only thing is whenever we’ve not played 442, fans say ‘we’re too narrow’ and ‘we need two wingers to put crosses in’ and ‘players don’t know their jobs’ etc.
You’re right about the 4-5-1 (although Syers was pretty much a makeshift forward. Remember he only switched to that formation when we were losing at 10-man Leamington where until Brown’s red mist subbing we had 3 at the back and were awful)but he’s splashed out on Ainge ‘to make a statement’ to the league. That only leaves 3-5-2 as an option, with Trotman/ Thommo on the right and O’Hanlon on the left. 442 would work if you had a rock solid back 4 and at least one rock solid midfielder. Can Wheatley be persuaded/coached to be the new Turnbull?

don'tbuythesun wrote:And there was me getting excited about our first outing of the season, Ashton away....even talked some friends into coming. We'll still be there.

Good on you. I said 'after the first half that's the worst I've seen us play for a long time'. Then I then said, 'well at least we can't play as badly in the second half'!! Little did I know, we were awful even woeful. We made Altrincham look like world beaters. The only player to come out with any credit was Maddison, who kept the score down. Thought the ref was really good and you can't say all that often. Given Altrincham's patchy form prior to yesterday, I thought there support was excellent, looked over a 100 to me. By the way did anybody hear who the MOTM was, as I seemed to miss it?

Vodka_Vic wrote:So after today there are 3 possibilities.

1. We have the quality, but they are still to gel or underachieving/something has happened behind the scenes which is short term.
2. We have the quality but TW cannot manage them effectively
3. The players TW signed are not good enough for this league and he can't make effective signings.

Hope it's number 1.

My take is it number 3, and we are never going to get a tight knit squad when players are travelling up from Midlands, training and playing 2 or 3 times a week then going back down south. There are bound to be cliques.
The person we missed most in my opinion when Gray took his entourage to York, was Harry Dunn. I appreciate there are many clubs at or around our level searching for players in the North East / Yorkshire but he had the contacts and would find them for us. Now there's a fall out at York, what is he doing ?

Harry Dunn, I thought I read that he'd left York a bit back, maybe last season?

Quakers83 wrote:I think for Ashton we need to do what we did post-Leamington last season - go 4-5-1 (or 4-2-3-1). That worked really well, there was a good transition between defence and attack, nobody really spoke about us being over-run and our form after Leamington was 7-4-3 IIRC.

Something along the lines of - Maddison; Trotman, Burn, Ainge, O’Hanlon; Thompson, Elliot, Syers, Hughes, Nicholson; Styche.

Elliot and Hughes as the two CM’s with Syers also dropping back-in but playing just off Styche. Thompson and Nicholson as the wide-players; and then your standard back four and goalkeeper.

That’s exactly how we set-up last season during our good run-in, apart from we had slightly different personnel. It looked something like - Pears; Trotman, Heaton, Galbraith, O’Hanlon; Thompson, Turnbull, Syers, Wheatley, Gillies; Styche.

For all having players like Styche, Ainge, Syers, Thompson and Nicholson gives you a great chance at one end, we need to start becoming resolute and organised. We’ve scored 10 goals in 6 games with 1 win to show for it. We’re going to places like Spennymoor and Kidderminster scoring 2 goals away from home and it’s not enough for 3pts.

Given the players that will probably be available for Monday I think your suggested team looks about the best that can be cobbled together with, as you say, similar tactics to what we played during the purple patch at the end of last season.

I have just watched the rerun of Match of the Day this morning and the Arsenal game review comments sounded very much as they might have said had they been watching Darlo. Arsenal got away with playing over committed full backs and a midfield that does not cover for them when they get forward, and Darlo will also get lucky playing all out attack from time to time, but it will lose us a lot of games against better organised sides like yesterday. It is clear that Arsenal have very good players and I dare say that none of their fans are suggesting that they can't be made into a better, more canny side (I mean the concept of boring one nil wins were what the Arsenal was once famous for). So I don't think the players who looked good in the matches at Spenny, Brackley, and Blyth shouldn't be able to produce better results. But no getting away from yesterday being woeful. The confidence damage done by the defeat at Kiddie can't be overlooked and there did seem to be a distinct hangover from that in the attitude of the players. We looked like a team under the cosh from the word go and long ball tactics seemed to be all we had to try and get a foothold in the game. Monday badly needs a more solid approach and some sort of result to steady the ship.

When Tommy first arrived the results and the tactics got everyone, including himself, to wonder if it could ever could be successful, but a bit of trial and error finally got a system that largely worked. It just feels as if we are going through a similar period of adjustment. Hopefully we will get there, and at least this year we have a lot more time to turn it around.

We as fan's of a fan owned club need to keep the faith, yes we have played very poorly for three games but we have also played three good teams off the park, calling for the managers head at this time is a kneejerk reaction let's give it till end of September and see what if any change has occurred before doing anything drastic. Keep the faith lads, onwards and upwards with Darlington fc. I'll be there on Monday keeping my faith with the club.

HarrytheQuaker wrote:

jjljks wrote:Heard a rumour Collins asked for a transfer at HT so Tommy decided it was better to sub him directly.

Wheatley was an obvious massive loss to midfield where unforced errors abounded, not to mention Thommo's aberration in giving away the penalty, little in the way of getting first to any 50/50 ball then lacking in pace and creation not to mention winning tackles.

Usual cockup from officials with Lino missing the ball well over the line so should have been a corner for us, compounded when they swept up to other end to smash it into our net.

Looked slightly better in last 30 minutes with Ainge filling in for injured Galbraith /Collins in back four, Thommo dropping into middle with Syers linking and pace of Saunders up front, who hit crossbar. Maddison was repeatedly left to deal with one on one situations and did well to keep the score down to three. Could easily have been 1-7 and Alty were made to look like World Cup winners, with about 50 of their fans going home laughing whilst 1400 Darlo fans wondered about what went so wrong.

Can't remember hearing anyone getting MOTM award, probably Glover or Dunn for keeping the bench warm as certainly no Darlo player on the pitch deserved it

The ball was no where near over the line... Rose tinted glasses

I was stood level with the 6 yd box at their end so in a good position to see and had just returned from a trip to SpecSavers so have the right prescription, deffo over the line. Saunders very unlucky not to have won that as a corner but then we had stopped to complain, when they played on to the whistle and got the killer goal.
Also my hearing seems to be on a par with at least one other person who never heard the MOTM announcement.

My fears about the situation only increased after seeing the interview with TW. It comes across as so much more worrying than just one bad home defeat. To be honest he comes across as confused, let down, alarmed by what he has seen and, well, lost.

Very frustrating. In the bad spell last year, what was abundantly obvious was the lack of quality at the back. When we got Heaton and Pears in, things seemed more organised, and the results came with it.

It seems like we've regressed. He needs to sort the defence out, the amount we are conceding is not good enough. I've said it before, but a defensive midfielder could help out the back 4 if we're struggling.

Also agree that whilst I like the look of Ainge, 4-5-1 with Syers just off the front man is a better look for us.

jjljks wrote:

HarrytheQuaker wrote:

jjljks wrote:Heard a rumour Collins asked for a transfer at HT so Tommy decided it was better to sub him directly.

Wheatley was an obvious massive loss to midfield where unforced errors abounded, not to mention Thommo's aberration in giving away the penalty, little in the way of getting first to any 50/50 ball then lacking in pace and creation not to mention winning tackles.

Usual cockup from officials with Lino missing the ball well over the line so should have been a corner for us, compounded when they swept up to other end to smash it into our net.

Looked slightly better in last 30 minutes with Ainge filling in for injured Galbraith /Collins in back four, Thommo dropping into middle with Syers linking and pace of Saunders up front, who hit crossbar. Maddison was repeatedly left to deal with one on one situations and did well to keep the score down to three. Could easily have been 1-7 and Alty were made to look like World Cup winners, with about 50 of their fans going home laughing whilst 1400 Darlo fans wondered about what went so wrong.

Can't remember hearing anyone getting MOTM award, probably Glover or Dunn for keeping the bench warm as certainly no Darlo player on the pitch deserved it

The ball was no where near over the line... Rose tinted glasses

I was stood level with the 6 yd box at their end so in a good position to see and had just returned from a trip to SpecSavers so have the right prescription, deffo over the line. Saunders very unlucky not to have won that as a corner but then we had stopped to complain, when they played on to the whistle and got the killer goal.
Also my hearing seems to be on a par with at least one other person who never heard the MOTM announcement.

It looked like it ran along the line to me, perhaps a little on the outer side of the line but all of the ball over all of the line? I don't think so...

LoidLucan wrote:My fears about the situation only increased after seeing the interview with TW. It comes across as so much more worrying than just one bad home defeat. To be honest he comes across as confused, let down, alarmed by what he has seen and, well, lost.

To give TW the benefit of the doubt here I just think he was trying extra hard there to convey how gutted that he was.

Normally even after a defeat he often smirks when asked a question - probably unintentional - but you can imagine that people might have taken it quite badly if there was an accidental smirk after that performance. He will have known that.

grimsbyquaker wrote:Great post 83...totally agree. Only thing is whenever we’ve not played 442, fans say ‘we’re too narrow’ and ‘we need two wingers to put crosses in’ and ‘players don’t know their jobs’ etc.
You’re right about the 4-5-1 (although Syers was pretty much a makeshift forward. Remember he only switched to that formation when we were losing at 10-man Leamington where until Brown’s red mist subbing we had 3 at the back and were awful)but he’s splashed out on Ainge ‘to make a statement’ to the league. That only leaves 3-5-2 as an option, with Trotman/ Thommo on the right and O’Hanlon on the left. 442 would work if you had a rock solid back 4 and at least one rock solid midfielder. Can Wheatley be persuaded/coached to be the new Turnbull?

4-4-2 has worked for us this season when we have had Elliot and Wheatley in the middle - we played it for three consecutive games against Spennymoor, Brackley and Blyth. It seemed that game on game we had improved working on that shape - the absence of Wheatley has really rocked us. At times we did look a little open in those games, especially when coming up against a 4-5-1, but that’s when you need your defence to stand-up and be counted. Not like yesterday when Hulme was given the freedom of Darlo to pick his spot, not once but twice.

Yesterday Elliot looked really frustrated and IMO he’s one of the only ones to come out with any credit. For all we were over-ran, he hassled, harried and never stopped. At one point I remember him pressing the ball, it was knocked on and he just looked behind him to see a massive space so he gestured as if to say he couldn’t believe it. He can’t do it all by himself, but it was literally only two weeks ago everyone was raving about the Elliot-Wheatley partnership.

3-5-2 is a no from me - it didn’t work last season, and it certainly didn’t work in the first 45 against Motherwell. It never has worked for us really, too many teams just get down the sides, drag our centre-halves out and cross the ball. We don’t seem to deal well in the air with crosses TBH - Curzon’s two goals came from crosses, Spennymoor’s equaliser, Brackley’s two goals, Kidderminster’s 2nd, 4th and 5th.

4-5-1 for me, TW documented last year that Syers posed a threat but he was clever enough to drop back-in when needed. I get that Ainge was signed to score goals, but we have a very small squad, meaning Ainge will get his game-time whether that be up-front or centre-half. He’s already scored 3 in 6, two being from set-pieces which we still could utilise even playing him as a centre-half.

I actually thought Ainge did well yesterday, he’s a leader, an organiser and can head the ball for miles (not forgetting for the majority of his career he’s been a centre-half too). Maybe we need that at the back, because for all we’ve been scoring goals we only have one win to show for that - plus two red cards and 3 penalties conceded in 6 games isn’t good enough either.

You can talk about formations until the cows come home but it doesn’t make a blind bit of difference if players aren’t doing the basics